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Manwich
08-12-2009, 08:15
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090804193230.htm


ScienceDaily (Aug. 6, 2009) — The active ingredient in many insect repellents, deet, has been found to be toxic to the central nervous system. Researchers say that more investigations are urgently needed to confirm or dismiss any potential neurotoxicity to humans, especially when deet-based repellents are used in combination with other neurotoxic insecticides.


Vincent Corbel from the Institut de Recherche pour le Développement in Montpellier, and Bruno Lapied from the University of Angers, France, led a team of researchers who investigated the mode of action and toxicity of deet (N,N-Diethyl-3-methylbenzamide). Corbel said, "We've found that deet is not simply a behavior-modifying chemical but also inhibits the activity of a key central nervous system enzyme, acetycholinesterase, in both insects and mammals".


Discovered in 1953, deet is still the most common ingredient in insect repellent preparations. It is effective against a broad spectrum of medically important pests, including mosquitoes. Despite its widespread use, controversies remain concerning both the identification of its target sites at the molecular level and its mechanism of action in insects. In a series of experiments, Corbel and his colleagues found that deet inhibits the acetylcholinesterase enzyme – the same mode of action used by organophosphate and carbamate insecticides.


These insecticides are often used in combination with deet, and the researchers also found that deet interacts with carbamate insecticides to increase their toxicity. Corbel concludes, "These findings question the safety of deet, particularly in combination with other chemicals, and they highlight the importance of a multidisciplinary approach to the development of safer insect repellents for use in public health"

Dogwood
08-12-2009, 08:38
I thought several governmental agencies and supposedly independent medical studies conducted by or affiliated with those profitting from the sale of DEET assured the public that DEET was entirely safe when used as directed.

Is it still too early to think they were simply wrong or, even worse, were engaged in somewhat dubious or deceitful business practices in the quest for profits? I have never been aware of anything possibly occurring like this before. I can't understand it. If it's good enough to be used by the American military it has to be safe for the public, right?

Manwich
08-12-2009, 08:39
I thought several governmental agencies and supposedly independent medical studies conducted by or affiliated with those profitting from the sale of DEET assured the public that DEET was entirely safe when used as directed.

Is it still too early to think they were simply wrong or, even worse, were engaged in somewhat dubious or deceitful business practices in the quest for profits? I have never been aware of anything possibly occurring like this before. I can't understand it. If it's good enough to be used by the American military it has to be safe for the public, right?


I liked the part where you were pretending to be a naive american.

Hooch
08-12-2009, 08:50
I'm sure that once more research is in, the FDA will look to pull anything with DEET in it off the shelves. Can't have stuff that's bad for ya out there for public consumption, right? But I'm sure tobacco products will stay.

sasquatch2014
08-12-2009, 09:00
I am going to get a bigger basement I am not sure how much Deet I will be able to store down there next to my DDT and aresol spray cans.

Manwich
08-12-2009, 09:00
But I'm sure tobacco products will stay.

Of Course! (link)

Manwich
08-12-2009, 09:01
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403 - link

berninbush
08-12-2009, 09:04
Anything is bad for you in high enough concentrations... even pure water. The question is, how much DEET does it take to be dangerous to humans? Is it feasible that such an amount/concentration would be present to people using the product as directed? What is the risk/benefit ratio?

Unfortunately, such sensible questions are unlikely to be asked in the court of public opinion (or Congress). Words like "neurotoxin" create hysteria and lead to a knee-jerk reaction... loss of sales, or an outright ban. Reminds me of the story during the Alar scare, when a young mother called poison control and asked if the apple juice she'd been giving her baby could be poured down the toilet, or if she needed to take it to a toxic waste disposal site.

You have to remember, we've been using the stuff for over 50 years now, and it is still by far the most effective substance we have against biting insects. Weigh the number of people who've been sickened by DEET vs. the number of people who've been sickened by malaria, West Nile Virus, Lyme Disease, etc. It's true, if people *have* been sickened by DEET, the connection may not have been previously recognized. But still, it's a pretty big leap to say the cure is worse than the problem.

Manwich
08-12-2009, 09:11
But still, it's a pretty big leap to say the cure is worse than the problem.


Like that damn Rachel Carson! Screw the noisy birds and their soft-shell-eggs! Kill off the Skeeters! ::Bathes in DDT::

fiddlehead
08-12-2009, 09:13
I never used deet.
I always chose the headnet and long sleeve shirt option.
I saw a guy the other day spraying deet all over his kids and even in their face.
I said something to him and he of course didn't like it.

It makes sense to me that anything that's going to kill insects is not going to be good for me.

I've fired up Cintrinella candles already. That stuff is natural, OR built a fire to keep them at bay , deet is manufactured by man. I don't even like the smell.

berninbush
08-12-2009, 09:47
Mousetraps are also manufactured by man, and kill mice, which are biologically much closer to us than insects are. You can hurt yourself with a mousetrap if you don't use it properly. Does that mean it should not be commercially available?

I don't like the smell either. But I like mosquito bites even less.

Homer&Marje
08-12-2009, 09:49
If Deet caused neurotoxicity I would have died this weekend at shaker campsite in MA.

The skeeters were eating the deet...and breathing fire smoke. Notably they were 50 lbs each and the size of a large eagle...:rolleyes:

GeneralLee10
08-12-2009, 09:58
I never used deet.
I always chose the headnet and long sleeve shirt option.
I saw a guy the other day spraying deet all over his kids and even in their face.
I said something to him and he of course didn't like it.

It makes sense to me that anything that's going to kill insects is not going to be good for me.

I've fired up Cintrinella candles already. That stuff is natural, OR built a fire to keep them at bay , deet is manufactured by man. I don't even like the smell.


I agree with you on this there are natural insect repellents. I use SSS w/ some alcohol mixed in it about a 50/50 mix and it seems to work fine for me.

Wags
08-12-2009, 09:59
i have different internal responses to this when i'm A) sitting at my computer in my AC home and B) when i'm out hiking...

Blissful
08-12-2009, 10:13
If it won't kill you, it will make you stronger...

(from one who used DEET every day for nearly two months, and ALEVe and Advil every day for nearly six months)

superman
08-12-2009, 10:25
I've concocted my own theory. Basically, I'm hoping that the deet, Agent Orange, DDT and a whole lot of other bad **** I've been exposed to cancel each other out.

jersey joe
08-12-2009, 10:32
I stopped using deet a while ago when it melted the plastic on my watch.

Manwich
08-12-2009, 10:34
I've concocted my own theory. Basically, I'm hoping that the deet, Agent Orange, DDT and a whole lot of other bad **** I've been exposed to cancel each other out.

Sounds like the Three Stooges Syndrome (http://www.tvacres.com/diseases_ailments_3stooges.htm)

superman
08-12-2009, 10:49
Sounds like the Three Stooges Syndrome (http://www.tvacres.com/diseases_ailments_3stooges.htm)

Yes, it is and there is a lot of folks walking around who have been exposed to multiple forms of bad ****. Do you remember when the VA used to put radioactive stuff next to healthy organs in the 50s and early 60s to determine if an atomic war was survivable? All they concluded was that different people have a different tolerance to bad ****.

skinny minnie
08-12-2009, 11:18
Like that damn Rachel Carson! Screw the noisy birds and their soft-shell-eggs! Kill off the Skeeters! ::Bathes in DDT::

That made me laugh.

And NO KIDDING. The stuff melts plastic! Go ahead and use it if you're o.k. with that being absorbed by your skin... personally, I'll pass.

GoldenBear
08-12-2009, 11:35
> anything that's going to kill insects is not going to be good for me.

DEET is NOT an insecticide, or any kind of "cide." It does NOT kill insects. It disrupts their sense of smell such that they can not land on flesh.

www.epa.gov/opp00001/factsheets/chemicals/deet.htm


Last year alone there were 44 fatalities in the U.S. from West Nile Virus

www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/surv&controlCaseCount08_detailed.htm

NONE of these people would have died had they properly used DEET.
Unless someone can show me that 44 people died from use of DEET in the US in 2008, I'll be intelligent and use the best prevention method available.

Lone Wolf
08-12-2009, 11:40
i'll still use DEET and sleep with my food and not treat/filter water and ford the kennebec

Homer&Marje
08-12-2009, 11:43
Here I thought you just had mosquito's trained to stay away from you:D

Well, that's what I heard.....

Hooch
08-12-2009, 11:43
I stopped using deet a while ago when it melted the plastic on my watch.Serves ya right for buying a cheap watch. :rolleyes: Just kidding. I didn't know it would melt plastic. Interesting.

BrianLe
08-12-2009, 11:47
Did the same thing to a (fortunately cheap) watch of mine, the back of the watch literally looked sort of melted.

I carry DEET and use it very seldom; just keep moving, be efficient in camp then get into the tent, wear long sleeves and long pants and a headnet when stopped for any length of time, eat lunch at windy places. The right combination of activities can keep the bugs bearable.

David@whiteblaze
08-12-2009, 11:55
If it's good enough to be used by the American military it has to be safe for the public, right?
Good enough for the military, sort of like how you see the average middle class citizen driving a tank to work every day, or using an MK40 as a hiking stick. Right?

Homer&Marje
08-12-2009, 11:56
Serves ya right for buying a cheap watch. :rolleyes: Just kidding. I didn't know it would melt plastic. Interesting.

Heard about deet melting plastic from ChiefDaddy last year in the Whites.

Said he stopped using it....somewhere in Virginia? maybe on his '08 thru because it started melting his trekking pole handles.

I just rub it everywhere with my wrists and keep it off my hands as best as possible.

berninbush
08-12-2009, 11:59
Serves ya right for buying a cheap watch. :rolleyes: Just kidding. I didn't know it would melt plastic. Interesting.

You've got it all wrong. DEET is perfectly safe. Plastic is what's dangerous to your skin... it breaks down DEET, and it's very unstable and leaches chemicals. Ever heard of BPA?

;););):D

jersey joe
08-12-2009, 12:08
Serves ya right for buying a cheap watch. :rolleyes: Just kidding. I didn't know it would melt plastic. Interesting.
It actually was a very cheap watch! http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif

brooklynkayak
08-12-2009, 13:02
I stopped using deet a while ago when it melted the plastic on my watch.

It has been known to destroy inflatable and self-inflating sleeping pads.

I usually wear a headnet and long sleeve when the skeeters are bad.
I once dowsed my bandanna with one of the more common natural skeeter repellents and laid it across my chest while I was napping in my headnet. I woke to find several skeeters that seem to be drawn to the bandanna and trying to drill into it.

Nothing seems to work very well:confused:

kofritz
08-12-2009, 15:15
that explains the weird science look i see on many hikers.

MintakaCat
08-12-2009, 15:32
I'm always a little skeptical of studies released by "for-profit" publishers like BioMed Central. Not saying anything pro or con on DEET, but the source of the study could be better.

An example would be the The New England Journal of Medicine which is published by the Massachusetts Medical Society, a non-profit organization.

wrongway_08
08-12-2009, 15:42
I will still use 100% DEET.

Will worry about more important things.... avoiding drunks and cell phone users while driving to the trailhead, so I can apply my DEET before hiking without sunscreen.

mister krabs
08-12-2009, 15:50
I'm always a little skeptical of studies released by "for-profit" publishers like BioMed Central. Not saying anything pro or con on DEET, but the source of the study could be better.

An example would be the The New England Journal of Medicine which is published by the Massachusetts Medical Society, a non-profit organization.

They've already made their statement about DEET here (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13)

Despite the substantial attention paid by the lay press every year to the safety of DEET, this repellent has been subjected to more scientific and toxicologic scrutiny than any other repellent substance. The extensive accumulated toxicologic data on DEET have been reviewed elsewhere.17 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R17),35 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R35),36 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R36),37 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R37),38 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R38),39 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R39) DEET has a remarkable safety profile after 40 years of use and nearly 8 billion human applications.35 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R35) Fewer than 50 cases of serious toxic effects have been documented in the medical literature since 1960, and three quarters of them resolved without sequelae.35 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R35),37 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R37) Many of these cases of toxic effects involved long-term, heavy, frequent, or whole-body application of DEET. No correlation has been found between the concentration of DEET used and the risk of toxic effects. As part of the Reregistration Eligibility Decision on DEET, released in 1998, the Environmental Protection Agency reviewed the accumulated data on the toxicity of DEET and concluded that "normal use of DEET does not present a health concern to the general U.S. population."40 (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13#R40) When applied with common sense, DEET-based repellents can be expected to provide a safe as well as a long-lasting repellent effect. Until a better repellent becomes available, DEET-based repellents remain the gold standard of protection under circumstances in which it is crucial to be protected against arthropod bites that might transmit disease.

MintakaCat
08-12-2009, 16:10
They've already made their statement about DEET here (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/1/13)

So, am I to understand that BioMed Central, who wrote this report, is saying that The New England Journal of Medicine is wrong?

LOL, I'll put my money on results from the The New England Journal of Medicine. :D

randyg45
08-12-2009, 19:01
fiddlehead, deet doesn't kill mosquitos. They, like you, don't like the smell.

Looks like I need to stockpile not just lightbulbs but also insect repellant (as opposed to insecticide).

fiddlehead
08-12-2009, 20:55
Ok, i stand corrected.
Deet is your friend.

The Weasel
08-12-2009, 21:11
I am going to get a bigger basement I am not sure how much Deet I will be able to store down there next to my DDT and aresol spray cans.

Just move some of the ammo boxes and stack the assault weapons closer together and you'll have plenty of room. :D

TW

Tinker
08-12-2009, 21:49
I never used deet.
I always chose the headnet and long sleeve shirt option.
I saw a guy the other day spraying deet all over his kids and even in their face.
I said something to him and he of course didn't like it.

It makes sense to me that anything that's going to kill insects is not going to be good for me.

I've fired up Cintrinella candles already. That stuff is natural, OR built a fire to keep them at bay , deet is manufactured by man. I don't even like the smell.

Deet doesn't kill biting insects, it just keeps them away. Permethrin, on the other hand (if you really want something to be afraid of) has warnings all over it that you should not breathe the vapors or touch it until completely dry - well what happens when you SWEAT and it gets WET again?

We're All GONERS!!!:eek:
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Shutterbug
08-13-2009, 00:41
I am going to get a bigger basement I am not sure how much Deet I will be able to store down there next to my DDT and aresol spray cans.

Don't worry, you can just put it next to your cans of freon.

Jim Adams
08-13-2009, 01:22
I love Deet! I don't go overboard with it...I only use it when I absolutely have to but damn I wish they'd improve the taste.

geek

berninbush
08-13-2009, 02:25
As a kid, I was in a playhouse with a friend and the skeeters were pretty bad... we got the bright idea of spraying the air with insect repellent (I'm assuming DEET-based) to keep them out. Needless to say, the atmosphere in that little box of a place quickly became unbreatheable! I think that would be an example of an improper use that could be hazardous to your health. ;) We ran out of there choking, but suffered no long-term ill effects (as far as I can tell!).

I suppose we could've ended up adding two to the fifty cases of DEET poisoning in its long history. But it was fairly forgiving of our stupidity. We were all right within a few minutes.

Colter
08-13-2009, 11:21
(Repeating my post from another forum):

EPA Study (http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/factsheets/chemicals/deet.htm)
After completing a comprehensive re-assessment of DEET, EPA concluded that, as long as consumers follow label directions and take proper precautions, insect repellents containing DEET do not present a health concern. Human exposure is expected to be brief, and long-term exposure is not expected. Based on extensive toxicity testing, the Agency believes that the normal use of DEET does not present a health concern to the general population.

I avoid using more than I need. I rely on clothing like long-sleeves shirts, long pants, and a bandanna hanging from the back of my hat (foreign legion style) when possible. Personally, I'm not going to forgo the most effective mosquito repellent known based on one study. Nearly any chemical is dangerous to some people under some circumstances.

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry: Fatalities Due to Dermal Exposures to DEET (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/consultations/deet/health-effects.html#bookmark02)
From 1961 to 2002, eight deaths were reported related to DEET exposure. Three of these deaths resulted from deliberate ingestion of DEET (Tenenbein 1987) (see above). Two deaths were reported in adults following dermal exposure to DEET (Bell et al. 2002). The remaining three cases were all female children, with ages of 17 months, 5 years, and 6 years (Zadikoff 1979; Osimitz and Murphy 1997). All three children had been described as having "heavy, "frequent" or "nightly" applications of DEET. The 6-year-old had congenital ornithine carbamoyl transferase (OCT) deficiency, a potential lethal hyperammonemic condition, which may have contributed to her death. DEET did not inhibit human OCT in vitro (Rej et al. 1990)

So with millions of people using DEET, many heavily and long-term, over 41 years, only two adults that didn't drink it died according to this study. Pretty good track record, I'd say. Perfectly safe? Of course not. Not many things are. Pretty darn safe based on it's real-world track record? The stats would seem to support it.

Reid
08-13-2009, 11:33
Can we get churck norris in a can anywhere?

Manwich
08-13-2009, 11:35
Can we get churck norris in a can anywhere?

Why? So you too can be a hasbeen and tout partisan politics while smelling foul?

Reid
08-13-2009, 11:42
Why? So you too can be a hasbeen and tout partisan politics while smelling foul?

No sir officer! Just making a joke officer! Don't need a can do that anyway officer!

CowHead
08-13-2009, 13:02
man it makes a great sandwich spread, what am I to do now sh-*-*-*-/*, first it was ddt, then cigs, now deet before you know it they'll be saying beer is bad for ya. They can have my gun, rights and healthcare but darn it I'm not letting go of my deet, they'll just have to pull it from my neurotoxin dead hand...cough....And in the end it wasn't the deet it was all the poison in toothpaste that killed us...spit damn it! don't swallow that sh-*/---**--/t cough cough

JokerJersey
08-13-2009, 13:33
Is this kinda like when they told us that Equal and Sweet & Low are deadly carcinogens because they caused cancer in lab rats?

I remember reading afterwards that when that study was conducted, they injected them with a concentrated form that equalled out to ingesting something like 800 packets of Sweet & Low all at once for like 8 weeks straight before cancer developed. OH NO! You mean if I eat 45,000 packets of Sweet & Low in 2 months, I'll get cancer?!?!? AGHHHH!

Be informed, make your own choices, and live with the consequences. Seems like everyone just wants to grab the torch and pitchforks when something like this comes out and crucify someone.

Then on top of the legitimate concerns sometimes brought to light, you have to deal with the "OMG, Throw away your tupperware, it causes CANCER!" emails that float around 3-4 times a week.

Homer&Marje
08-13-2009, 14:11
Can we get churck norris in a can anywhere?

Red Bull is Chuck Norris Pee. (They add sugar:D)

Fiddleback
08-13-2009, 14:21
Did this new report identify DEET as a neurotoxin to humans or mice?

Is an edit/change of this thread's title warranted...?

FB

Reid
08-13-2009, 14:23
Red Bull is Chuck Norris Pee. (They add sugar:D)

haha, nothing like a glass of cold piss to start the day off. . . chuck norris piss if like jet fuel!

Blue Jay
08-13-2009, 14:42
As part of the Reregistration Eligibility Decision on DEET, released in 1998, the Environmental Protection Agency reviewed the accumulated data on the toxicity of DEET and concluded that "normal use of DEET does not present a health concern to the general U.S. population."

As other have said, I would never put something that melts plastic on my skin. I do not like conducting blind toxicology tests on myself, go ahead if you like. But if I did, the fact that the EPA gives the OK for something would quickly make me stop.
Recently the EPA stopped dregging the Hudson because the PCBs they were dregging showed up in the water. I believe they truly did not think about this happening when it was a virtual certainty. Possibly the absolute bottom US government agency and that is saying a great deal.

woodsy
08-13-2009, 15:58
New report identifies DEET as a neurotoxin to humansWell finally i know whats wrong with me, been using the stuff for 30 years as needed. Its the only product that keeps em "off ".
Oh well, someone had to be the Ginny pig. :cool: ;) :D

Jim Adams
08-13-2009, 16:06
I'll bet more people have died of toxic poisoning from eating McDonalds "ice cream".

geek

Homer&Marje
08-13-2009, 17:00
That's it....it's all a number relative comparison. Up with Deet and down with Mcdonalds and more people live

And neurologically slightly numb...which is good for some people:rolleyes:

mkmangold
08-13-2009, 19:50
I'm always a little skeptical of studies released by "for-profit" publishers like BioMed Central. Not saying anything pro or con on DEET, but the source of the study could be better.

Nothing happens in this country unless 1. The federal government gains more power and makes more money from it, and/or 2. Large corporations gain more power and make more money from it (and the feds always win if #1 ever clashes with #2). The article was written by a frenchy and a frenchy from Canada. Which says to me they were probably sponsored by a french chemical manufacturer. So my guess is that DEET is here to stay. Nice try, though!

Panzer1
08-13-2009, 20:03
That study talked about mixing DEET with insecticide. Why would anyone ever mix DEET with insecticide?

Panzer

Lone Wolf
08-13-2009, 20:06
That study talked about mixing DEET with insecticide. Why would anyone ever mix DEET with insecticide?

Panzer

to keep skeeters off bald eagles. oops that's pesticides

CowHead
08-13-2009, 20:46
you know there are things that always cycle here and maybe they should be ban too, deet, Warraghiyagey and cute field mice

MintakaCat
08-13-2009, 20:52
To be honest, the best way to get rid of insects.....hike in the winter. It's always worked for me.:D

Dr O
08-13-2009, 21:52
I am going to get a bigger basement I am not sure how much Deet I will be able to store down there next to my DDT and aresol spray cans.

DDT was safer than Deet, as long as you're not a fish or bird. (or an insect)

Dogwood
08-13-2009, 22:36
I find it interesting that many posters are skeptical of the government and agencies, like the EPA and FDA, when they conduct studes when these agencies can and often are influenced by political agendas and mega money from big business. Likewise, some are skeptical of universities who supposedly conduct independent research that have accepted large sums of grant money and have a monetary incentive to maintain and increase their funding. I suppose some would ask who is associated with the funding and if they expect anything in return for it.

superman
08-13-2009, 22:57
I find it interesting that many posters are skeptical of the government and agencies, like the EPA and FDA, when they conduct studes when these agencies can and often are influenced by political agendas and mega money from big business. Likewise, some are skeptical of universities who supposedly conduct independent research that have accepted large sums of grant money and have a monetary incentive to maintain and increase their funding. I suppose some would ask who is associated with the funding and if they expect anything in return for it.

Yes, that is true. Another aspect is that before the surgeon general came out with the first statement that cigarette were bad for people lots of people already had a sense of that. The same with DDT. The same with dioxin. Just from the posts on WB the same can be said for deet.

Dogwood
08-13-2009, 22:58
About three decades ago I remember scientists and medical doctors, who were on the payrolls of big tobacco, testifying before Congressional Committees by presenting mounds of statistics, studies, and supposedly independent research that demonstrated there was no conclusive proof that tobacco was habit forming or cancer causing. Some politicians were also sympathetic to the tobacco industry. It took an act of Congress to finally have the tobacco industry place a warning label on tobacco products. 440,000 Americans die every year from first hand smoke. I wonder if any of those who died before the warning was mandated may be alive today if the warning had been in place earlier or if information about the dangers of tobacco had been fully realized earlier.

I'm not really sure about the safety of DEET but I certainly don't believe all the studies are conducted without alterior motives. And, isn't that precisely what someone who is profitting from the sale of DEET wants. To control the flow of information by providing disinformation to the point that you don't know what to believe is right.

I have ceased being amazed at what will be done for the love of money.

Erin
08-13-2009, 22:59
I grew up in town that used a DDT mosquito fogger to run all over town to kill mosquitoes. We followed the thing on our bikes. I probably glow in the dark already because of that. The deet I used kept the ticks off me this year.

Deadeye
08-13-2009, 23:39
I don't really trust anyone to tell me that something that kills or confuses bugs or melts plastic (DEET, permethrin) is safe for me... I assume that anything that nasty is toxic to some degree, and use it accordingly. In other words, a bath in DEET would likely do great harm, but a little spray now and then will likely do me less harm than the bugs will, and may save what's left of my sanity. All things are best in moderation. YMMV

superman
08-14-2009, 00:05
When I was a kid in the 50s they used a tanker truck to spray the DDT on the fields. It was said to be safe until one day it wasn't. When I was about 15 or 16 I started smoking. Both my parents and most of the adults I knew smoked cigarettes. No one had a problem with it. When I was 18 I got to Vietnam in 1966. The jungle came right up to the dirt roads and too damn close to the basecamp. When they started spraying they sprayed everything...including us. The army gave me all the DEET I wanted but it irritated my skin too much so I saturated my towel with it. I wore the towel around my neck but when I wanted a breath of fresh air I had to set the towel off to the side. When I hiked the AT I didn't carry DEET. I only needed it in that town in NJ but I didn't have any. So, as I said earlier I'm hoping that one poison will cancel out another.:)

woodsy
08-14-2009, 05:58
Corbel and his colleagues found that deet inhibits the acetylcholinesterase enzymeBeen noticing lately that particular enzyme has been feeling inhibited :rolleyes: :D

sweetpeastu
08-14-2009, 10:48
eh I've been usin it for years and I'm still here. :) Besides I thought they were tellin us to use our bug spray to prevent west nile virus?!?

berninbush
08-14-2009, 14:36
It took an act of Congress to finally have the tobacco industry place a warning label on tobacco products. 440,000 Americans die every year from first hand smoke. I wonder if any of those who died before the warning was mandated may be alive today if the warning had been in place earlier or if information about the dangers of tobacco had been fully realized earlier.

Some of them, possibly. But I wouldn't count on too many. The warning label has been in place for a long time now (bolstered by further research and evidence) and it still doesn't stop new smokers from picking up the habit in droves. The bottom line is, people do what they want to do and take the risks they want to take. And if they're not interfering with the rights of other people, that is their prerogative.

IMHO, the laws that make it increasingly difficult to smoke outside one's own home have a lot more to do with any decline in tobacco use than the warning labels or campaigns. Inconvenience is a powerful motivator.

You can put warning labels on DEET, but I doubt it would have much effect on usage anyway.

Homer&Marje
08-14-2009, 14:41
eh I've been usin it for years and I'm still here. :) Besides I thought they were tellin us to use our bug spray to prevent west nile virus?!?

Same news station that runs the same 2 specials every day....Early morning it's "How to make your own giant chocolate Easter Bunny" and at night their running "Obese in America, the New Disease"

Deet also helps prevents ticks, and theirs been numerous cases of Lyme already this year.

Dogwood
08-14-2009, 15:32
You bring up some valid points bernibush,

All I'm saying is that studies and statistics can be manipulated to achieve a pre-conceived outcome. They are rarely done without inherent biases. Just because a government agency, university, or supposedly independent reearcher attaches its lofty credentials to a study doesn't necessarily mean the research is not skewed in some way.

Sure, further research and evidence has developed concerning the dangers of tobacco use since the warning label was first mandated, but let's not forget that a large body of evidence existed at the time of those Congressional Committee hearings that demonstably illustrated the dangers of tobacco. Despite this medical research pointing to tobacco being a carcinogen and habit forming it did not deter big tobacco from launching its own campaign of disinformation, deceipt, and contradictory research.

I'm not saying that the situation with tobacco is exactly the same as with DEET. I'm saying there are often multiple players who are providing there own statistics and research that supports their own agendas. This can brought to the extereme when involving poltical agendas or mega profits in the business sector.

mkmangold
08-14-2009, 15:34
Been noticing lately that particular enzyme has been feeling inhibited :rolleyes: :D

Me too! I can put up with the increased salivation but I'm getting pretty tired of the diarrhea.

CowHead
08-14-2009, 16:15
DEET what is it good for?
it can double as birth control
DEET what is it good for?
It can genetically give you a second butt hold

Panzer1
08-14-2009, 16:21
I don't really trust anyone to tell me that something that kills or confuses bugs or melts plastic (DEET, permethrin) is safe for me... I assume that anything that nasty is toxic to some degree, and use it accordingly.

Does DEET actually kill bugs, or does it just keep them off you?

Panzer

Nasty Dog Virus
08-14-2009, 17:56
The Pesticide Information Project of Cooperative Extension Offices of Cornell University states that "Everglades National Park employees having extensive DEET exposure were more likely to have insomnia, mood disturbances and impaired cognitive function than were lesser exposed co-workers"....

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/deet-ext.html

Despite everything that I have read about possible side-effects of DEET useage, I will continue to use it.

I dislike bug bites more than insomnia, mood disturbances and impaired cognitive function :D

mkmangold
08-14-2009, 19:14
Despite everything that I have read about possible side-effects of DEET useage, I will continue to use it.

I dislike bug bites more than insomnia, mood disturbances and impaired cognitive function :D

What's that mean?

Panzer1
08-14-2009, 19:16
Discovered in 1953, deet is still the most common ingredient in insect repellent preparations.The above article says DEET was dicsovered in 1953 but another article says it was discovered in 1946. See below:


Developed by scientists at the U.S. Department of Agriculture and patented by the U.S. Army in 1946, DEET is considered the "gold standard" of insect repellents.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080818183942.htm

Panzer

Nasty Dog Virus
08-14-2009, 19:32
What's that mean?

Means just what I said :)
insomnia, mood disturbances and impaired cognitive function make life fun :D
bug bites are just plain irritating :mad: and also dangerous with lyme & west nile going around

emerald
08-14-2009, 19:39
I hear DEET is good for nasty dog bites.;)

Now, if only, we had a good dog repellent.

wrongway_08
08-14-2009, 20:22
Here is my "Goverment" findings:

- I have used 100% DEET (only the best!) since able to walk
- I use it a lot
- I have never had any problems
- I have used DEET over 25 years
- I do not have any weird problems (okay, I can get lost on a one-way trail .... :o )
- I did not get "paid" millions of dollars by Mr. "x" to sway my judgment

My real world, no B.S. in-lab studies, = DEET is safe.



Okay, now that this study has been put to sleep, I want to know is that paste glue some of you ate in Elementary school really as safe as the Government says it is?
Sasquatch, I figure you were probably one of the kids eating that crap by the 5 gallon bucket size ......... have you had any ill effects :bse?

Blue Jay
08-15-2009, 08:46
Here is my "Goverment" findings:
My real world, no B.S. in-lab studies, = DEET is safe.


You're only 33, your blind toxicology study on yourself has just begun. You will die of something, Deet, car crash, man eating plant, who knows. I ride motorcycles, highly dangerous, but I'm well aware of that fact. Deet maybe safe, but it may not be.

amac
08-15-2009, 09:17
Unless someone can show me that 44 people died from use of DEET in the US in 2008, I'll be intelligent and use the best prevention method available.

This will be forever one of those hot-button topics with two clearly delineated sides, and little grey-area in between. Each side can point to plenty of evidence and rational thought to support their position. I don't know if this is true, but I remember hearing that if Penicillin were to be created today, it wouldn't be able to pass the tests for public use. Until DEET isn't available, I agree with GoldenBear.

weary
08-17-2009, 17:13
....It makes sense to me that anything that's going to kill insects is not going to be good for me.
.....

DEET has never been claimed to be an insect killer. It's a repellent. It keeps the bugs from landing on your skin and biting. I personally rarely use a DEET spray, except occasionally to spray on the back of my tee shirt, when the mosquitoes are biting through the cloth.

Otherwise I use liquid 100 percent DEET. A tiny container (less than two ounces) lasts me all season, though I live on the edge of a salt marsh, which are notorius for breeding mosquitoes. I just squirt a couple of drops on the palms of my hands, which I then rub on exposed skin.

I'll need to know more to decide whether this practice is dangerous. I don't detect any particular symptoms after a half century of use. Serious research over the decades has found very few serious impacts from DEET's use.

Weary

Tinker
08-17-2009, 21:29
Here is my "Goverment" findings:

- I have used 100% DEET (only the best!) since able to walk
- I use it a lot
- I have never had any problems
- I have used DEET over 25 years
- I do not have any weird problems (okay, I can get lost on a one-way trail .... :o )
- I did not get "paid" millions of dollars by Mr. "x" to sway my judgment

My real world, no B.S. in-lab studies, = DEET is safe.



Okay, now that this study has been put to sleep, I want to know is that paste glue some of you ate in Elementary school really as safe as the Government says it is?
Sasquatch, I figure you were probably one of the kids eating that crap by the 5 gallon bucket size ......... have you had any ill effects :bse?

Ya, right! This guy handles poisonous snakes for fun.................:rolleyes:
Yes, folks, DEET will mess with your mind. :D

dloome
08-17-2009, 21:59
Seriously, if you've EVER used DEET, you shouldn't need a comprehensive scientific report to tell you it's pretty nasty stuff.

However, if I lived in a malarial country and didn't have access to pills, I'd risk the neurotoxic stuff.

CowHead
08-18-2009, 06:52
I hear DEET is good for nasty dog bites.;)

Now, if only, we had a good dog repellent.

It's call emerald:banana

Nasty Dog Virus
08-18-2009, 09:26
It's call emerald:banana

hehehehe :D

mudhead
08-18-2009, 11:24
FYI- Unscented bug spray has been around for awhile.

In my opinion people use far more than is needed. It only takes a tad.

I don't need a report to tell me that blackflies can make you goofy. Frantic goofy.