View Full Version : Best stove for a Scout Troop
I'm looking for opinions on what would be the best stove to purchase for a Scout troop just getting into backpacking. I'm probably looking for a propane / butane fueled stove since Scouts are not suppose to handle liquid fuel without adult supervision and because of the general safety concerns associated with liquid fuels. Also the stove should be able to handle both boiling water and some cooking for a patrol of about 5 boys during a weekend trip. Please consider durability and cost. Any constructive feedback will be greatly appreciated.
brooklynkayak
08-20-2009, 13:45
A scout troop should learn to cook on a wood/found fuel fire. Unless they don't teach outdoors skills in the scouts anymore?
There are many found fuel stoves out there. The Nomad's "Little Dandy" could be made as a scout project.
tlbj6142
08-20-2009, 13:52
There are several "remote" canister stoves on the market (a few more have been added recently now that folks figure out how to make them good winter stoves). They are great for big groups because they are far more stable than normal stove-on-top canister stoves so you can use a larger pot. Plus you have fine flame control. You can spread the weight around (one boy has the stove, another has a canister, a 3rd has windscreen and pot, etc.) and many of them make great winter stoves if you just flip the canister upside down (so it draws liquid propane from the canister).
skinewmexico
08-20-2009, 14:32
A scout troop should learn to cook on a wood/found fuel fire. Unless they don't teach outdoors skills in the scouts anymore?
A surprising number of areas don't allow open fires any more. And when you have a rainy summer followed by a drought, and a county declares a burn ban, you're stuck with stoves, as we were all winter on our local 9,000 acre Scout ranch in the Davis Mountains. But I agree, Scouts should learn how to cook on an open fire. Sure is easier. But back to the OP's question, I'd watch for a Primus EtaPower stove on Steep and Cheap. Kind of heavy, but super efficient, and perfect for a group of 5.
Tuckahoe
08-20-2009, 15:53
I agree that boy scouts should learn to properly cook on a proper fire, but as already stated, that can be difficult where fires are not permitted or when fire bans are in place. One the other hand I think its just as important that a scout lean to use a stove as well.
How about a stove along the lines of a MSR pocket rocket or super fly? If it is not practical that each scout have a stove, they could be paired up and share a stove.
tlbj6142
08-20-2009, 16:08
MSR pocket rocketThe pocket rocket is not a "group stove". I would avoid all "stove on top" canister stoves as they are too unstable with small pots, let alone a larger 2-4q pot. Whereas remote style canister stoves work great with larger stoves as they have wider and beefier pot stand along with a lower center of gravity.
Midway Sam
08-20-2009, 16:11
Depending on where we go my scout troop uses different things.
At least once a year we camp and do not take any stoves. This allows the scouts to learn to cook on a campfire which allows the opportunity to complete requirements 2d, 2e 2f and 2g for the Second Class rank.
A couple of times a year we will "base camp" in a group campground and use our tried and true Coleman Camp stoves (http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=3000000492&categoryid=2020&brand=).
We have several older Coleman Peak One liquid fuel stoves that we will use for one or two night backpacking trips. They are similar to this one (http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=442-725&categoryid=2005&brand=). These are fairly easy to use and operate much like the traditional Coleman 2-burner camp stoves so the scouts are familiar with how to light and use them.
Last year I worked with several of our older scouts and I taught them to make a few different alcohol stoves. This past fall I took the older scouts on a 3-night backpacking trip and the only stove I would allow them to use was their alcohol burner they made. I told them this beforehand and one knucklehead tried to call my bluff and brought a Peak One with him. He really hated the fact that he lugged the weight for nothing. ;)
All that being said, I really think that a good quality canister stove would also be a good bet for scouts. Something on the order of the various Primus stoves (the Technotrail comes to mind) that have a piezo starter would be a great option. Easy to start, adjustable flame and nearly bombproof. The main gotcha is teaching the scouts about fuel conservation and proper disposal of the emty canisters.
I got the Primus EtaPower Easy Fuel stove for our troop. It is a bit expensive, but I watched for an online sale ans snagged them for less than 1/3 the regular price. They can be expanded with an additional 3 liter pot. They come with a 1.8 liter pot.
This is a remote canister stove with an integrated windscree.
http://www.primuscamping.com/product.php?id=2
They have worked out well for group cooking. Some of our patrols are 8-9 boys. They have to split up and cook in shifts, but with other patrol set up type activities, this usually works out fine. The patrol quartermaster cooks for the first shift while everyone is setting up camp. Then he feeds the second shift while the first shift is cleaning up etc. We have used them only once, but they were great.
Dang, what happened to the edit feature!
Thanks, I'll have to find some information on the Little Dandy stove.
And yes, we do teach outdoors skills.
A scout troop should learn to cook on a wood/found fuel fire. Unless they don't teach outdoors skills in the scouts anymore?
There are many found fuel stoves out there. The Nomad's "Little Dandy" could be made as a scout project.
When our troop backpacks, the boys pack/cook individually, rather than as a patrol. The troop has bought canister stoves they can check out - we encourage two boys per stove - one carrying the stove, the other the canister. We also provide the canisters, through troop funds.
That being said, I'm taking my youngest to Philmont next year with our council contingency. The crew formation meeting is next week - I just realized that I have a work conflict, and won't be able to make it....which I hate, because I'm concerned about the kind of gear decisions they might make!
Thanks to everyone who has weighed in so far. It seems like a remote canister type stove might be the way to go. The canisters is away from the flame, no liquid fuel, stable with larger pots, and can be divided up and carried between Scouts.
Wise Old Owl
08-20-2009, 20:38
Don,
When Troop 78 Willistown heads to the average summer camp or overnighter its all propane! When its high adventure and no green horns its MSR with remote Coleman gas cannisters.
http://www.outdooraction.co.uk/acatalog/whisperlite_intl.jpgOhh and we had two bake packers!
Owl,
The first backpacking stove I ever bought was the MSR Wisperlite, white gas only, its got to be 35 years old and still works like it did the day I bought it. The problem I see with that stove is you know the Scouts are going to put way too much fuel in the priming cup and then we'll have a bonfire! Like you said it's a great stove for experienced Scouts but we have a lot of new boys.
Wise Old Owl
08-20-2009, 22:34
Owl,
The first backpacking stove I ever bought was the MSR Wisperlite, white gas only, its got to be 35 years old and still works like it did the day I bought it. The problem I see with that stove is you know the Scouts are going to put way too much fuel in the priming cup and then we'll have a bonfire! Like you said it's a great stove for experienced Scouts but we have a lot of new boys.
Uhh no problem ... grab the newbies and demonstrate. Then have them practice while parents are video taping! - have ambulance & large fire extinguisher nearby - make sure all lawyer releases are signed and on file:D...
Please get a grip on this. give the boys credit , make sure the patrol leaders have done this once or twice then turn them around and have demos. Put those boys in charge! its a leader run organization not Adult run organization. So long as the seals and rubber parts are in good shape you will climb mountains.
Feral Bill
08-21-2009, 00:19
Owl,
The first backpacking stove I ever bought was the MSR Wisperlite, white gas only, its got to be 35 years old and still works like it did the day I bought it. The problem I see with that stove is you know the Scouts are going to put way too much fuel in the priming cup and then we'll have a bonfire! Like you said it's a great stove for experienced Scouts but we have a lot of new boys.
MSR shows the Whisperlite as introduced in 1984. Perhaps you have an older model?
Tuckahoe
08-21-2009, 07:25
The pocket rocket is not a "group stove". I would avoid all "stove on top" canister stoves as they are too unstable with small pots, let alone a larger 2-4q pot. Whereas remote style canister stoves work great with larger stoves as they have wider and beefier pot stand along with a lower center of gravity.
I realize that it is not a group stove, as I was suggesting that the scouts either use the stoves individually or that they should be paired up on a stove.
I agree, that low sitting burners/remote canister stoves have a great stability. However, I really have to disagree that canister stoves -- whether talking about the pocket rocket, superfly, a Svea, etc. -- are "too unstable." It makes it seem as though all they do it tip over. I have used such stoves for years without ever having a problem with stability.
Wise Old Owl
08-21-2009, 09:03
Tuckahoe64 This is about costs, & safety. They could do both, but its one stove per 5-8 boys or patrol, and its got to have a lot of gas in it for mistakes and be forgiving on spills, burnt food and having to start again. Boys often make strange mistakes in the field. One year we were not even cooking and a fire got started and almost wiped out the campsite, We got it out by beating it to death. No idea which idiot started it.
I once watch a Scoutmaster - screw up making bacon & links, he was cooking them floating in grease & oil, almost deep frying them because he wouldn't pour the excess off. 20 minutes later he finally listened to us.
tlbj6142
08-21-2009, 09:30
I really have to disagree that canister stoves -- whether talking about the pocket rocket, superfly, a Svea, etc. -- are "too unstable." It makes it seem as though all they do it tip over. I have used such stoves for years without ever having a problem with stability.I, too, own a Pocket Rocket. I use it often when I hike with my kids. And I hate for that very reason. The 2qt pot I use slides all over the place and I have to be extremely careful about touching the pot/stove otherwise it will slide right off. If I want to stir something, or add something, I better have a good grip on the pot or else it will slide right off. I honestly, think a strong wind (though I doubt I'd cook in such a scenario) could blow a my pot off my PR. While it may not tip over, it would slide off.
The problems I have with the PR are primarily due to the odd design of the PR pot supports which only make contact with pot on their tips. This works OK if you have a MSR pot as they are ridged on the bottom allowing the pot support tips to slightly "bite" into the bottom. This doesn't happen if you a smooth bottom pot.
Thin wobbly pot supports that only make contact with the pot on their tips combined with smooth bottom pot makes for a very unstable setup.
Now other stove-on-top setups with better pot supports (like the Coleman F1 Ultralight) will have less of an issue, but I would not want to place a 4qt pot on one. 2qt max.
barefoot
08-21-2009, 09:35
I take a church youth group on the AT every summer. We use the MSR Windpro. It's a cannister stove but remote. Much more stable than a pocket rocket type of stove. One year while using a pocket rocket a pot of boiling water fell over burning one of my teens. Next year we switched over.
Our scout troop has gone on week long canoe trips, to Philmont, many places. We chose the Optimus Nova stoves many years ago, it has changed names now, and is still available, but the MSR dragonfly is a very similar model. You said you don't want white gas, but we have never had a problem with it, and it is highly efficient fuel.
Priming stoves have a learning curve, no doubt. And that is what scouts is all about IMO. Reading and understanding directions, cause and effect of not doing so, having senior scouts teach new ones, respect for potential dangerous things, these are what make scouts learn. Our scouts have the respect for these stoves, and all know you must follow the correct procedure for lighting them and turning them off. Once learned, not a big deal. You certainly can avoid white gas if you want, but don't do it because it may be dangerous. We always have adult supervision at cook time, so no issue. We love them.
The nova and dragon fly stoves can handle very big pots, true simmer capability, pack down small, and are very fuel efficient. They fit exactly what our troop needs. Lots of choices in this gear area, figure out your needs for the stove, and they will lead you. We needed stoves that can handle big pots, and these excell at that.
skinewmexico
08-21-2009, 10:46
I'm tellling ya, Primus Etapower. Low center of gravity, pot can't slide off, peizo igniter, super-efficient; $50 with pot and cozy on SAC.
Wise Old Owl
08-21-2009, 13:29
nice stove ski! Scout troops won't mind the 2 1/2 pounds.
skinewmexico
08-21-2009, 13:46
nice stove ski! Scout troops won't mind the 2 1/2 pounds.
Five of us used one of those for 4 days in the Wheeler Peak Wilderness of NM in July, and used about half a bottle of gas. We'd boil water, fill FBC bags, and zip them all in the cozy that the stove comes in. Quick way to do dinner.
rpenczek
08-21-2009, 13:58
Have to agree with Owl, I backpack with my Boy Scouts regularly and have taught all of them to use a liquid fuel (wisperlite, dragonfly, Primus multi-fuel) safely.
In fact, the boys show great respect for the liquid fuel stove, knowing what can happen. Yes they need a bit of supervision, but I submit that you should be supervising anyway, especially if they are cooking your food too (don't want any intentinal livestock). I am lucky that I have several fully engaged older boys (16 years old) who are very experienced (for a 16 year old) and who will help the younger boys through stove lighting. I stay in the background but interject when I see someone leaning over the top of the stove while trying to light it or leaving the fuel valve open when priming.
Liquid fuel stoves are by far the most efficient and lightest weight for a group of 8 to 12 people (We eat as one patrol, youth and adults when we backpack). If we have more than 12 we split into two crews/patrols.
Our method is as follows:
Two 8 quart cook pots with lids and coozies
Two liquid fuel stoves with fuel bottles
Boil enought water between the two pots for your rehydration and wash water. Once to a boil put all water in one pot, let the empty pot cool, put pot in coozie, line with a turkey bag and dump in dehydrated meals. Measure appropriate amount of hot water into dehydrated pot and mix. Wait 15 minutes, eat. Pull out dirty turkey bag and put in a ziplock to carry out, split remaining hot water between two pots (one with soap) and wash and rinse your bowls. CRITICAL THAT EVERYONE LICKS BOWL CLEAN, floaties in the wash water is a pain to strain and carry out.
This method will serve a crew of 12 easily. Check out philmontforums.com for additional information on cooking gear/stoves, etc... for crews.
Finally, a number of folks mentioned that your boys should learn to cook on wood fires. I disagree. There are times when that is appropriate; however, in my opinion, while backpacking is not the time. Liquid fuel stoves are quicker, easier, and better for LNT than wood fires. Save wood fire cooking for the front country (car camping) experience. I can also tell you that on our last trip on the AT in Norther TN, the boys did not even car to have a "campfire" in the evening as they ate dinner and were in their tents sleeping by dark (AKA hiker midnight).
One last thought, you can get a Primus Multi-fuel stove that will work with liquid fuel and canister fuel without any changes (jet changes) in the stove. When you purchase the unit it comes with a fuel pump for liquid fuel. The fuel line will hook up either to the pump or directly to a MSR/Coleman/Snow Peak/Jet Boil type canister. We have used these, but they are not good in the cold and of course the cannisters are not refillable (read land fill).
Keep on Scouting,
Hemmingway
rpenczek
08-21-2009, 14:06
We own and use 6 of these stoves. I did not pay $160 each, I got them on sale for about $70 each.
http://www.rei.com/product/784352
tlbj6142
08-21-2009, 14:35
We have used these, but they are not good in the cold and of course the cannisters are not refillable (read land fill). Canister stoves are great in the cold, but you have to turn the canister upside down to make them work well. Another reason why you should get a remote style canister stove, rather than a "stove on top" style.
Was that an REI sale?
We own and use 6 of these stoves. I did not pay $160 each, I got them on sale for about $70 each.
http://www.rei.com/product/784352
mister krabs
08-21-2009, 21:39
STP has some good deals on primus gravity stoves (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/4269,1201K_Primus-Gravity-Easy-Fuel-Stove-with-Windscreen.html) and coleman exponent dual stoves (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/4269,83704_Coleman-Exponent-Xpedition-Stove-2-Burner.html).
Single and double burner remote LP fuel for 40 & 45 $$
that coleman exponent dual would be good for a patrol of 10 I'd bet.
Like most backpacking equipment, there are choices and compromizes.
For Boy Scouts getting into backpacking, I would suggest either a canister stove or a white gas stove.
Canister stoves like the pocket rocket are simple to use. But then there is the issue of partial canisters.
Among white gas stoves, the Coleman Peak 1 stove is a very reliable stove. It holds up well for group use. The MSR stoves like the whisperlite and dragonfly are also good stoves for group use, but tend to clog up more. So, if you use an MSR stove for the group, know how to disassemble it and repair it.
For those of you who suggest open fires, remember that one of the LNT prinicpals is to reduce the impact of open fires. But, there is a place and time for cooking over the open fire. A backpacking trip may not be the best place for it. Depends on how much hiking you want to do, and how much time in camp you want.
Feral Bill
08-22-2009, 12:24
Like most backpacking equipment, there are choices and compromizes.
For Boy Scouts getting into backpacking, I would suggest either a canister stove or a white gas stove.
Canister stoves like the pocket rocket are simple to use. But then there is the issue of partial canisters.
Among white gas stoves, the Coleman Peak 1 stove is a very reliable stove. It holds up well for group use. The MSR stoves like the whisperlite and dragonfly are also good stoves for group use, but tend to clog up more. So, if you use an MSR stove for the group, know how to disassemble it and repair it.
For those of you who suggest open fires, remember that one of the LNT prinicpals is to reduce the impact of open fires. But, there is a place and time for cooking over the open fire. A backpacking trip may not be the best place for it. Depends on how much hiking you want to do, and how much time in camp you want.
The Peak 1 Featherlight white gas only stoves are very grumpy in cold weather, while their multi fuel version seems to work fine. Some groups use the old fashioned Coleman Sportster stove (too heavy for solo or pairs of hikers). The Sportster is very stable and flame adjustment is good, and they are cheap.
I can see where partial canisters left over from every trip would be a problem. I have a Wisperlite that I don't use much anymore. It's a good stove but not as light as my homemade alcohol stove. I'm ruling alcohol out because of the dangers of open fuel (not contained and sealed in the stove) that is invisible when burning in daylight.
Wise Old Owl
08-23-2009, 09:50
Repenczek,
"strain the floaties and pack them out?" - Uhh what?
Hey depends on where you are, if you are avoiding little critters from being attracted to camp walk the wash bowl away from camp and water sources and spread in a wide pattern over bushed (not pour - fling!)
We have had some good discussions about LNT here at WB in the past I have started a few threads on it. Makes a good read.
generoll
08-23-2009, 19:41
white gas, but the Svea and the Tourister cookset are a perfect match and the right size for 3-4 people. watch for them on EBay.
rpenczek
08-24-2009, 13:26
"Repenczek,
"strain the floaties and pack them out?" - Uhh what?
Hey depends on where you are, if you are avoiding little critters from being attracted to camp walk the wash bowl away from camp and water sources and spread in a wide pattern over bushed (not pour - fling!)
We have had some good discussions about LNT here at WB in the past I have started a few threads on it. Makes a good read."
Thanks owl, but I (our Troop) teach the boys to strain the gray (dish) water and catch the food particles left in the wash water. We bag the food particals and pack them out in the trash. We fling (not pour) the gray water well away from camp and any water sources, or pour it in a sump if the camp site has one (generally only Philmont).
So, to reduce the amount of left over food particles to carry out (yuck) we try to get everyone to lick their bowls clean before washing.
Sorry if my prior post confused you.
rpenczek
08-24-2009, 13:26
Was that an REI sale?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpenczek http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=882119#post882119)
We own and use 6 of these stoves. I did not pay $160 each, I got them on sale for about $70 each.
http://www.rei.com/product/784352
Yes, about 12 months ago for the last two stoves purchased.
Buffalo Skipper
11-10-2010, 17:18
I am also looking for some new stoves for our troop. A quick background. We had Coleman Exponent Xpert Backpacker Camp Stove like this one:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZZ6XNEZXL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
However, this model is now discontinued, but there are several double burner models still in stock.
Our attitude about backpack cooking is that cooking is done in small groups with 2-4 scouts sharing a stove, as their meals allow. This way they can divide their stove weight between them, but it also teaches teamwork.
We generally backpack in the winter (December/January) and every few years, we have temps in Alabama/Georgia which are below 20°. We would also use these stoves while canoeing in the summer. All together, we may use these 3-4 times a year.
We have always used canisters, but would be willing to use white gas. Our main concerns are stability (of the stove and pots on the stove) and cost. What fresh ideas any of you offer?
camper10469
11-10-2010, 23:37
If you are going to Philmont, tehy will tell you what stove to use on the equipemnt list they issue to the leaders.
Liquid fuel is not allowed in NY Scout camps unless approved by Council.
SVEA! SVEA! Has to be a SVEA. Not because they are the best - but because all the SVEA-ites are dying out and we need new recruits!
Actually, PM me your address and I will send you my Coleman Peak 1 multi fuel. Only have the white gas line handy unless I get lucky and find it. You may have to replace the pump gasket ($5?).
Just an Eagle Scout giving back. Thanks for donating your time to the organization.....
........er, I mean I can only find the white gas line - the kerosine feed line eludes me - but I haven't been looking.
peakbagger
11-11-2010, 08:38
The scout troop I was affiliated with for years used whisperlights. In theory, if you plan it right, they shouldnt have to refill the fuel bottle for most trips. We had similiar training to the "totin chip" on the stoves, if someone had a flare up on a stove they had to go for additional training before they use it again. The main reason we used the whisperlight is that it was cheap to run, cannister type stoves inevatably cost 2 to 3 times more for a weekend trip plus we had to deal with half full containers.
A scout troop should learn to cook on a wood/found fuel fire. Unless they don't teach outdoors skills in the scouts anymore?
I agree with this. I have been in Scouts almost 40 years and for the first 25 years living in St. Louis Missouri all we did is cook on wood fires, we never had a stove. 15 years ago I moved to Memphis Tennessee and have been in 3 troops in Memphis NON of which ever cook on wood fires, they have all cooked on stoves.
Serial 07
11-11-2010, 16:22
a pocket rocket should do you fine...easy enough...
rapchizzle
12-30-2010, 13:43
Whisperlite WhisperliteWhisperlite. They're bullet proof and the design hasn't changed too terribly much since they were introduced for a reason. AS a boyscout you should be familiar with Philmont, I was a ranger out there this past summer and I'd say 75% of the crews that came were using Whisperlites, I mean, that's the only stove that they actually gave us a training session on troubleshooting, field maintainance, cleaning, etc.
I got one for myself and when I take my troop backpacking and I'll never get rid of it.
Oogie Boogie
12-30-2010, 14:21
Scout cooking option?
Thrifty was one of the magic words, at least in my handbook.
I make these from recycled materials, and they work REALLY well, as long as there is fuel around. They burn wood best. Light, effective, and reasonably priced, NO POLLUTION, carbon neutral, hand made in the USA.
Larger models for base camps are also available.
http://www.etsy.com/shop/thegreateststuff
Or, if you want to turn it into a fun activity, you can have the scouts make their own:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=250711&id=695142918
When I was a scout, I used to use an Optimus Svea, but I scrimped and saved a LOT for it. You can still find them new for around $100, and they're second to none for white gas. Lots of folks seem to think alcohol is the way to go for liquid fuel these days. I'm not inclined to argue. Lots of option for making and buying there! Best of luck!!
Whisperlite WhisperliteWhisperlite. They're bullet proof and the design hasn't changed too terribly much since they were introduced for a reason. AS a boyscout you should be familiar with Philmont, I was a ranger out there this past summer and I'd say 75% of the crews that came were using Whisperlites, I mean, that's the only stove that they actually gave us a training session on troubleshooting, field maintainance, cleaning, etc.
I got one for myself and when I take my troop backpacking and I'll never get rid of it.
Whisperlite seconded. It's less likely a clumsy scout will knock a pot off one of these than a cannister stove (because it's more stable), fuel is cheap, they are hot as a volcano, and tough as nails.
Unless they improved the simmering efficiency, they can be difficult to cook "real" food on, but, boy, can they boil water!
Home made stoves are now ban, No cat can, soda can or alc stoves.
Check the guide to safe scouting.
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss07.aspx
Prohibited Chemical-Fueled Equipment—Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed.
I imagine there was an accident followed by a lawsuit.
arthur.uscg
01-03-2011, 18:10
If you are doing Philmont or any other scout camp they only sell liquid fuel at the trading post. So stay away from purchasing canister stoves.
I would recommend Whisperlight, Dragonfly and Coleman Peak1 400.
Have your adults shop yard sales for the stoves and buy the rebuild kits if needed. The older versions of the stoves work great, just filter your fuel every time.
The old model Peak1 400 is has better simmering and is designed to be more scout proof. The old version will have 2 levers vs just 1. It might be labeled 400A or just 400. Typically be black or brown in color.
If i where outfitting for a scout troop, 2 whisperlight, 1 dragon fly and 2 old Peak1 400A.
The Peak1 is used for small groups (5ish) just going for a weekend and will hold enough fuel internally that you will not need to refuel. The pot holder is not as large as the MSR stoves so smaller pots are better.
For longer then a weekend trips or 5-7 people 1 whisperlight or dragonfly.
For 7- 10 and week long trips, both a whisper light and dragonfly or 2 whisperlights.
The adults might not want a "scout cooked" meal after awhile and the dragonfly can simmer better then the whisperlight.
I also got good at doing pancakes and bacon for breakfast on the days we were resupplied or base camped for the night with the rest of the troop.
Also, it is easier to butter fry fish with the dragon fly, if you decide to do a canoe/ trolling trip. :-D
beakerman
01-03-2011, 21:09
When my troop backpacks we do it in very small groups...4 at most.
this allows us to use a single stove....what I would call the mid sized whisperlite type stoves (they actually are whisperlites...old ones at that)....for a small group of boys.
This also reduces the impact rather than having a herd of boys and leaders plodding along the trail disturbing others.
Of course I don't know how long we will be able to do that as the troop grows even larger but it works for now.
rpenczek
01-04-2011, 10:33
Our Troop uses a three stove system (works well at Philmont - which does sell canister fuel at larger backcountry trading posts)
For typical group cooking we use two 8qt pots atop two Primus Omnifuel stoves (superior to MSR stoves IMHO). These stoves allow the use of liquid fuel (just like a wisperlite) and butane cans (like a pocket rocket) without changing jets. Our groups are typically 8-12 people so we use two stoves and two pots to get water boiling quicker (less water in each pot). We seldom us canisters with these stoves, but when younger boys (11/12/13) are involved, we do sometimes. Note, they do need supervision with liquid fuel, but when backpacking you will be close to them. Also, liquid fuel is MUCH more efficient for larger groups (more than 4).
In addition, we keep a pocket rocket type stove in our gear kit (an adult carries this) and its sole purpose is to heat coffee/coco/oatmeal water in the AM. The adult also carries a 1 ltr pot to go on the stove. We can generally do 12 oatmeals off one boil and then have water for coffee/coco. This stove is much faster to get going in the AM and gets us moving (out of camp) quicker.
So for a typical crew of 12 people we use two liquid fuel stoves and two 8 qt pots/lids and one pocket stove and 1 ltr pot/lid.
rpenczek
01-04-2011, 10:36
One other thing. I have seen other units (Troops) do things a bit different and it looked interesting. For every 2 boys, they had one canister stove (pocket rocket or gigapower or jetboil) and a 1 ltr pot. So each pair did their own thing in regards to cooking. This method seems a little faster to me (these stoves boil water fast), but a bit more expensive and the cans don't work well in the winter (assuming you cold weather backpack).
arthur.uscg
01-04-2011, 12:03
Does Philmont they sell them at all of the tradeing posts in the back country? When we went only the front country and one back country post sold the canisters. We where able to get by only carrying 1 medium fuel bottle per MSR stove and 1 small backup fuel bottle (coffee) for the entire trip because we could refill the bottles at all of the trading posts.
The 2 deep leaders ship requirement almost forces larger groups. A group of 4 would be 2 boys and 2 adults. I wish we could get that much parent involvement. Even with our troops higher then average parent involvement we had a lot of military families and with normal deployments forced us to larger groups. Since we cooked as 1 big group it reduced the number of adults over seeing cooking and could setup camp quicker. 2 boys and 1 adult vs 4-6 boys and 2-3 adults
I hiked all of Philmont with the 8qt pot with lid strapped to my pack. We also had an adult and 2 boys ponk out on the trail. When we weighed our packs after the Tooth of time hike down it was 59 lbs and I had no water left in my camelbak and nalgens.
dzierzak
01-04-2011, 14:18
If you are doing Philmont or any other scout camp they only sell liquid fuel at the trading post. So stay away from purchasing canister stoves.
clipped.... :-D
As of 2008, Philmont had Coleman Powermax and added other canisters as well.
Been there 02, 04, 06, 08 and 10
arthur.uscg
01-04-2011, 14:54
Oh my dad reminded me, we where technically 2 separate crews at Philmont. So for 1 crew a single Whisperlight with 1 medium and a tiny backup bottle would work.
Oogie Boogie
01-06-2011, 18:14
Home made stoves are now ban, No cat can, soda can or alc stoves.
Check the guide to safe scouting.
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss07.aspx
Prohibited Chemical-Fueled Equipment—Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed.
I imagine there was an accident followed by a lawsuit.
My stoves, although home made, do not run on liquid fuel. They run on wood or other solid fuel. They would not be included in that rule. Food for thought.