View Full Version : Alcohol Stove: Pros/cons
Hey whiteblaze folks,
Right now I have a MSR brand Dragonfly (I think thats whats its called) and i've been doing a little research about making my own alcohol stove. Im planning my '10 thru-hike, and was wondering what some people, with a little more experiance, thought about them. Pros/ cons. Fuel availability along the trail vs coleman. Durability. I took my stove out for a 4 nighter from amicoloa to unicoi and had to put it back together twice. Any ways just a little input would be welcome.
Survivor Dave
08-20-2009, 21:29
Good stuff here, but you might try www.bplite.com (http://www.bplite.com) , there are a lot of alky stovies designs and stuff.
I'd ask Skidsteer or Zelph along with some other folks.
Me, I'm an Alky. Too many parts to break in a mechanical stove.:D
Most fuels are pretty easy to find, at least from Springer to Fontana Dam.
Wise Old Owl
08-20-2009, 21:31
I'm with SD follow the link and enjoy making at least one or two stoves from scratch... Time well spent during the winter when time is slow.
Rocket Jones
08-20-2009, 21:36
Ditto that. Build one or two of different types and play with them in your backyard. You may have to build version 2's or 3's (I did) after you get an idea about improving efficiency. You can also tote them along on long day hikes or overnighters to see how you like them in real trail situations. Cook a meal or two (well, actually, boil water once or twice), or bake some biscuits.
The windscreen is critical. Make or get a good one and it makes all the difference.
ChinMusic
08-20-2009, 21:36
For a thru it would either be a Jet Boil or an alcohol stove for me. I'm leaning alcohol since I am not a coffee drinker and don't need that much fuel between stops. A good alcohol stove is as bulletproof as they come.....no moving parts.....just don't step on it and it will perform.
If I just had to have that hot drink/meal in the morning, a possible coffee during the day, and a hot meal at night I would choose the Jet Boil for quickness and overall weight savings.
I can go days without using fuel as I am gravitating more and more to a stoveless style. Because of that it is alcohol for me right now.
If you plan on cooking (sometimes frying some burgers the night out of town, or bacon in town [rather than spending the cash at a restaurant] you might be better off with a cannister stove. Most folks who hike long distances don't carry liquid fuel (Coleman, or "white gas") stoves because they are relatively heavy and more prone to clogging than cannister stoves. Both can usually be turned down to simmer foods like bacon, eggs, and burgers (some are much better at simmering than others). Most alcohol stoves can only boil water (hard to simmer on, though some adaptations can be made to make them simmer - kind of). Alcohol does not burn as hot as white gas or cannister fuels, and in very cold conditions your water may never reach a boil (the trick here is to keep both your fuel and water warm by hiking with it inside a jacket and sleeping with it (them) for a quicker, more efficient meal in the morning.
Most distance hikers become more weight concious as they put on the miles, so a simple, foolproof alcohol stove begins to become very appealing (especially in warm weather when they work quite well).
Personally, I use
1) A MSR Whisperlite stove - in the winter
2) An alcohol stove (supercat, 2 rows of 13 holes each) in the shoulder seasons (and in winter with others to show them that it can be done
3) Esbit fuel tabs - for boiling water only, and only in the summer. Superlight and relatively foolproof (you need a good windscreen, though [actually, you need a good windscreen with ANYGHING]).
So there you have my opinion.
Oh, yes. For two or more, alcohol becomes less efficient. It boils small quantities of water with small quantities of fuel - that is how it works best.
One more thing - I almost forgot that I have a cannister stove (Vargo Ti-jet, or Jet-ti). Works like a PocketRocket, is lighter and more durable. For two or more, Spring thru Fall.
Survivor Dave
08-20-2009, 21:49
Here is an experiment I did earlier this year. I used an Etowah II replica stove that Skids was kind enough to fabricate that only weighs 1.9 oz. I would think that the results would work for other similar type of alky stove.
I used about 2 tablespoons of the fuels per experiment.
Sorry, didn't mean to swerve, but thought it might be helpful.
===================================
****Final Test Results And Summary ****
Experiment # 1
45-50 Degrees
HEET Only:
Time to boil: 10 minutes
Cooking time: 7 minutes
50% HEET-50% Denatured Alcohol:
Time to boil: 6.5 minutes
Cooking time: 6.5 minutes
Denatured Alcohol Only:
Time to boil: 6 minutes
Cooking time: 9 minutes
Experiment # 2
32 Degrees
HEET Only:
Time to boil: 12.5 minutes
Cooking time: 6.75 minutes
50% HEET-50% Denatured Alcohol:
Time to boil: 8.5 minutes
Cooking time: 5 minutes
Denatured Alcohol Only:
Time to boil: 8.25 minutes
Cooking time: 6.5 minutes
Experiment # 3
24 Degrees
HEET Only:
Time to boil: 8.5 minutes
Cooking time: 8.5 minutes
Denatured Alcohol Only:
Time to boil: 9 minutes
Cooking time: 5.25 minutes
Experiment # 4
18-20 Degrees
HEET Only:
Time to boil: 8.75 minutes
Cooking time: 8.25 minutes
I am now finding that HEET has a shorter boil time and longer cook time at teperatures below 32 degrees.
The flame pattern is more controlled when using HEET and the denatured alcohol rises up the pot and is not as efficient. It appears to be used up faster for some reason with a shorter cook time.:rolleyes:
At this time it looks like denatured alcohol does better above freezing and HEET below freezing. I hope to try it in the single digits one day. That's rare in Georgia though.
I did not do a test on the 50/50 mixture or straight denatured alcohol below 24 degrees. I really didn't see the point at this time. I figure most will either do the straight HEET or the straight denatured alcohol.
Fiddleback
08-21-2009, 10:43
As shown by posts above, stove choice is influenced by factors other than efficiency and fuel types. Chief among them, imo, are your trail menu and weather conditions. If you revel in trail cooking and relish preparing gourmet meals then the larger gas/canister stoves should be the way your choice leans. But if you use freeze dried meals or dehydrate your own for FBC'ing, alcohol stoves fit the bill nicely. Still, if I'm camping in two feet of snow I'm gonna have a gas stove.;)
Soda can stoves cost next to nothing if you make them yourself and should cost less than $10 if you buy 'em. That's not a huge extra cost to add to the cost of buying a gas stove and its associated accouterments (I'm sorry...how often do I get a chance to type that word...:D). A soda can stove weighs about ½oz and an ounce of alky will do two cups of water. Take both types...use the one that matches your current menu and trail conditions and have a back-up at relatively little extra cost and weight.
FB
Homer&Marje
08-21-2009, 10:59
As always, my favorite design.... I have many but have perfected these into great boil and cook times. Denatured alky and HEET can be found almost anywhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRt8mNOP2b0
Hoop Time
08-21-2009, 14:36
A good alcohol stove is as bulletproof as they come.....no moving parts.....just don't step on it and it will perform.
And if you do step on it, you can make another in minutes. Just need a couple soda cans and a Swiss Army Knife (or a cat food can if you prefer those designs).
tlbj6142
08-21-2009, 15:32
Not sure if this is for a thru-hike or not, but one thing to consider is that canister stoves are stupid easy to use and faster than alcohol stoves. All too often thru-hikers become very lazy around camp later in their hike (a primary reason why many stay in shelters all the time) and sometimes it is just "easier" to use a canister and take the slight weight pentalty.
That said, I love Esbit stoves for 2-7 day solo hikes. Though I have used alcohol stoves before I "discovered" Esbit. My primary complaint about alcohol stoves is fuel carrying, measure and dispensing. I've tried several methods and I've never been happy with any of them. The stoves are great. Just make sure you get one that works with your pot size!!! That is very important.
Rocket Jones
08-21-2009, 17:08
My primary complaint about alcohol stoves is fuel carrying, measure and dispensing. I've tried several methods and I've never been happy with any of them.
I've decided that I'm not going to be picky about measuring the fuel. I don't carry a ton of it and I don't worry about only measuring an ounce or half an ounce either. I pour until the stove is full-ish, which means it's enough to boil a full pot of water.
Fuel is cheap, plentiful for resupply and not all that heavy so I can carry a little extra. I'm out there to relax, not stress over grams of fuel.
Jester2000
08-21-2009, 18:35
. . . I took my stove out for a 4 nighter from amicoloa to unicoi and had to put it back together twice. Any ways just a little input would be welcome.
You need to stop taking that thing apart.
Anyway, I used an Etowah II stove for much of my PCT hike last year. I found it to be far more efficient than most of the other alcohol stoves I saw out there.
Here's a good story for you -- I bumped into a friend from the trail in Portland whom I hadn't seen for a few days. We were in an outfitter and I asked him what he was there to pick up. He said, "pretty much everything." He had had a mishap with his alcohol stove and burned much of his gear.
Another friend, Coyote, badly burned her leg, and I witnessed a third friend, Marty, come close to starting a forest fire. I myself almost lit a windfarm up.
Either the people I hiked with were all morons/pyromaniacs, or you need to be a bit more careful with an alcohol stove than other options (and I highly recommend not adding alcohol to your stove because "it looks like the flame is out").
Just a Hiker
08-21-2009, 18:41
PRO- weighs nothing......no moving parts.......it's quiet.
CON- not very efficient in cold weather.
Jester2000
08-21-2009, 18:57
PRO- weighs nothing......no moving parts.......it's quiet. . .
Your alcohol stove is quiet?!? Man, if no one else's stove is talking to them I need to get into therapy.
Rocket Jones
08-21-2009, 20:00
Good reminders Jester, any stove is dangerous. You've got to pay attention.
tlbj6142
08-23-2009, 21:34
I've decided that I'm not going to be picky about measuring the fuel. Measuring is probably the easiest of the three issues I listed above.
I like having a compact, all in one place cook system. But once you start using alcohol (or any liquid fuel) it becomes annoying. As the fuel bottle rarely fits inside your cook pot and even if it did, I'm not sure I'd want it inside my pack. Which means you have another bottle on the outside of your pack to worry about. Is it that big of a deal? No, but I don't like it. I know it seems petty but for whatever reason it bothers some OCD "tick" I must have.
Dispensing, this is the one thing I was never happy with. It always seemed like I'd end up with alcohol on my hands the table or both. Part of the issue was always the stove type. Some stoves are easier to fill than others. Some can be shotgun filled (just dump the fuel in) other require you to pour a little, wait, repeat. And a third seems to have some weird configuration that makes filling difficult (brasslite's pot stand). For whatever reason I always seem to of that the later two. And, of course, your fuel bottle plays a part as well. Maybe now that I realize both the stove and the bottle are reason (or a big part of the reason) for my dispensing issues, I might be able to correct it. But I haven't tried alcohol in some time, not that I use Esbit.
In the end, I think is is really important to practice at home. At a table, on the ground, on un-even ground, stiff wind, slight wind, cold, cool, etc. Reading about "techniques" on-line doesn't make it easy. :D
I carry my alcohol in a small 3 oz squeeze bottle sold at Walmart. Its in the travel sized section near shampoos and such, its a squeeze bottle so there is no spilled and wasted. They even have different colored caps. I carry alcohol in a blue capped bottle, and olive oil in a green capped bottle, just my $.02.
Yay! First post!
I'm leaving in a couple days do hike a southbound section in VA, this will be my first real backpacking experience and I chose to try out a homemade alcohol stove on the trail.
I found http://zenstoves.net/ to be an AMAZING resource full of information on various styles of alcohol, as well other fuel, stoves. This site also offers VERY detailed statistical comparisons of fuel and stove types and has some very helpful diagrams and pictures to help anyone building their own stoves.
I've made two pepsi can stoves from scratch so far, and taking the time to test and tinker with the cooking setup has really paid off as far as finding the most efficient way to use it. Using oven liners as a lightweight, compact windscreen along with a 1/4" chicken wire pot stand, which allows the flame to evenly heat the sides and bottom of the pot, I was able to produce and hold a rolling boil of a 1/2 liter of water, using a couple Tbsp of fuel (denatured alcohol, found at any hardware store), in under 5 minutes.
I also really like the fact that alcohol stoves can really be customized to fit how YOU use them, which is nice as apposed to using a store bought version which is customized to a set of specific needs, and aren't easily modified.
I really enjoyed making and perfecting my little stove, and feel that eating the food I've cooked on it is so much more rewarding than cooking on a store bought stove would be. I don't have much experience with other stove types to compare it with, but so far I'm very happy with my pepsi can stove. :-)
stranger
08-23-2009, 23:09
Pros - very light, very inexpensive, simple, cannot break or clog, quiet
Cons - bad in wind cause there is no pressure, can take some time to boil, can't simmer (generally)
Denatured Alcohol is everywhere, must more likely to find than White Gas cause DA is in every hardware shop and some gas stations (HEET)
I've been using a homemade Pepsi Can stove with a Trangia base but recently made the Fancy Feast stove and it looks even more simple, and a tad lighter
Side burner stoves are noted for burning the tops of the cooking surface. I've recently taken to bringing a disc cut from an aluminum baking sheet which fits inside my cookpot to prevent myself from burning table tops.
Right now I'm trying to decide whether to bring my cannister stove, alcohol stove, or Esbit stove on my Long Trail Thruhike next month.
Decisions, decisions.........:rolleyes:.
JoshStover
08-24-2009, 01:23
Side burner stoves are noted for burning the tops of the cooking surface. I've recently taken to bringing a disc cut from an aluminum baking sheet which fits inside my cookpot to prevent myself from burning table tops.
Right now I'm trying to decide whether to bring my cannister stove, alcohol stove, or Esbit stove on my Long Trail Thruhike next month.
Decisions, decisions.........:rolleyes:.
Thats a really good Idea. I will have to remember that one...
I have been carrying a vargo triad to have the versatility to use alcohol in addition to my usual solid fuel tabs (generic esbit) but I went back to the simple tab holder after finding I never did use the alcohol and the tab holder fit my cup better
Homer&Marje
08-24-2009, 08:59
For all those that say alcohol stoves don't work in cold weather, may I remind everyone that they have been using HEET and alcohol stoves (large versions) on the Iditarod trail for years. Same system, same fuel, larger capacity and the ability to function at super cold temperatures.
Just sayin....
For all those that say alcohol stoves don't work in cold weather, may I remind everyone that they have been using HEET and alcohol stoves (large versions) on the Iditarod trail for years. Same system, same fuel, larger capacity and the ability to function at super cold temperatures.
Just sayin....
Alcohol stoves will indeed work at lower temps. However, it takes a LOT more fuel to melt the snow and heat water than a white gas stove.
I don't think that a backpacker will carry the sheer volume of fuel used on the Idiatrod MUSHERS.
(foot racers still use white gas it seems)
http://www.iditarodforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2172
A stove big enough to heat 3 gallons of water is gonna have a LOT of fuel. And when the fuel is supplied in copious amounts at aide stations, weight and efficiency does not matter
ps. here is the link to the Idiatrod stove. Notice how freakin' huge it is!
http://www.shopworks.com/adanac/index.cfm?action=category&level=2&parentid=000D5565-A546-1A2D-A029010C0A0A8CF2&userid=0000C540-B333-1A92-B1E1010D0A0AD036&requesttimeout=60
So, unless you are willing to carry the amount of fuel to make an alcohol stove feasible for melting of snow/long term winter use, white gas is going to be a far better choice. Unless of course you are backpacking in winter where there are convenient aid stations to supply fuel. ;)
Measuring is probably the easiest of the three issues I listed above.
I like having a compact, all in one place cook system. But once you start using alcohol (or any liquid fuel) it becomes annoying. As the fuel bottle rarely fits inside your cook pot and even if it did, I'm not sure I'd want it inside my pack. Which means you have another bottle on the outside of your pack to worry about. Is it that big of a deal? No, but I don't like it. I know it seems petty but for whatever reason it bothers some OCD "tick" I must have.
Dispensing, this is the one thing I was never happy with. It always seemed like I'd end up with alcohol on my hands the table or both. Part of the issue was always the stove type. Some stoves are easier to fill than others. Some can be shotgun filled (just dump the fuel in) other require you to pour a little, wait, repeat. And a third seems to have some weird configuration that makes filling difficult (brasslite's pot stand). For whatever reason I always seem to of that the later two. And, of course, your fuel bottle plays a part as well. Maybe now that I realize both the stove and the bottle are reason (or a big part of the reason) for my dispensing issues, I might be able to correct it. But I haven't tried alcohol in some time, not that I use Esbit.
In the end, I think is is really important to practice at home. At a table, on the ground, on un-even ground, stiff wind, slight wind, cold, cool, etc. Reading about "techniques" on-line doesn't make it easy. :D
Alky stove are definitely not for everyone! Some of us really like tinkering and building and the ability to make something out of what most would consider garbage.
In the end, though, there is more than one way to skin a cat. You sound like the perfect candidate for a canister stove. No messy fuels to handle, easy to light, simple to operate. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone should use whatever they are most comfortable with. For me, its a modified Supercat for three seasons and a white gas stove for winter.
Every system has its weaknesses and strengths, and people choose a stove based on what they value the most. I value simplicity and light weight of my supercat. No moving parts to break and it doesn't require a separate pot stand!
chiefduffy
08-25-2009, 13:51
Itchy congrats on 1st post. My experience with alcohol stoves is very much in line with yours. I ended up getting a pepsi can stove from Anti-Gravity Gear as a gift, and it seemed to work slightly better than the ones I made. I have been using it for several years now. I have to say, I hiked with a guy this year who had a jet boil, and he got in the habit of making hot tea (in the rain) every coupla hours on the trail, and I reaped the benefits. But I still carry my pepsi can.
-Duffy
Pro very very light
Con Always seem to run out of Jack-D