View Full Version : how to convince my marathon runner brother that hiking is diferrent?
My stubborn marathon running brother wants to hike the trail , no need for training- he says.How do I convince him using technical info that it's not the same? not the same muscles, tendons, pressure, feet, toes? it must be almost professional advice, he's stubborn ...
My stubborn marathon running brother wants to hike the trail , no need for training- he says.How do I convince him using technical info that it's not the same? not the same muscles, tendons, pressure, feet, toes? it must be almost professional advice, he's stubborn ...
Let him figure it out for himself. Lessons are learned better this way.
Lone Wolf
08-23-2009, 12:37
My stubborn marathon running brother wants to hike the trail , no need for training- he says.How do I convince him using technical info that it's not the same? not the same muscles, tendons, pressure, feet, toes? it must be almost professional advice, he's stubborn ...
there is no need to "train" to walk the trail. he's already fit so he's ahead of the game
skinewmexico
08-23-2009, 12:37
Take him up and down some big hills. But take a blister kit.
dreamsoftrails
08-23-2009, 12:39
My stubborn marathon running brother wants to hike the trail , no need for training- he says.How do I convince him using technical info that it's not the same? not the same muscles, tendons, pressure, feet, toes? it must be almost professional advice, he's stubborn ...
there's no need for training period, unless an arbitrary goal of mileage per day has been decided up front.
i just hiked half the trail this spring and i have been training for a half marthon in november. i think there is a lot of similarity in the aches and pains encountered.
his feet will just be sore in a different manner than running as from hiking. hiking will be closer to 'strength training' whereas marathon is an endurance thing, but its not quite that black and white. i think he will be fine, but he's not going to be all that 'better' than anyone else out there.
Jester2000
08-23-2009, 12:39
I would probably start by asking him a few questions:
How many days in a row has he run marathons?
How many marathons has he run carrying a backpack?
How many marathons has he run where he only consumed 2,000 calories the day before, because that's all the weight he could afford to carry?
How many marathons has he run where something like Albert Mountain was in his path?
What is the average elevation gain and loss for his marathons?
It might be valuable to ask him these questions not because different training is absolutely necessary, but because he should at least be aware that just because he is a marathon runner it doesn't mean that he will necessarily complete a thru-hike, or that it will be easy to do so.
You are right in that it's not the same physically. But he's may be right regarding no need for special training -- I've known far too many people who did no training whatsoever who weren't marathoners who still managed to complete a thru-hike.
I've also known people who I thought were the most physically fit people I'd ever seen quit after a month. So training-wise, maybe he's fine. But that doesn't mean it'll be easy.
double d
08-23-2009, 12:40
Zammy, it might be interesting to see how your brother reacts to carrying a 30-40 pack around all day while hiking the AT. Certainly he's in shape, but there is something said for being in "hiking shape" and I've heard this said from long distance runners. Good luck.
Just a Hiker
08-23-2009, 12:57
Your brother will be fine......he is fit enough to push through the hard climbs until his legs catch up with his cardiovascular fitness. There's a hiker on the trail right now (her trailname is Evergreen) who is a marathon runner and she is doing great. I ran into her atleast once a day between Springer and Fontana Dam and she always looked as though she wasn't even working hard.
I'm a marathoner who is breaking into backpacking.
Backpacking is tougher than I expected, but still generally within the exertion levels I'll bet he's used too.
His mileage per day may be humbling at first, but if he likes the outdoors he'll probably make the adjustments easily enough.
Jester made some very good points for him to consider.
jjj
I say keep your nose out of your brother' business. Let him HHOH. If he wants your advice he'll ask for it.
The Weasel
08-23-2009, 14:37
My stubborn marathon running brother wants to hike the trail , no need for training- he says.How do I convince him using technical info that it's not the same? not the same muscles, tendons, pressure, feet, toes? it must be almost professional advice, he's stubborn ...
It's the same. The same muscles, tendons, pressure, feet (usually 2), toes (often 10). Marathon runners do 26 (and change) miles, after they 'train' for months and months of usually 30-100 miles or more a week of running. Why do you think he's wrong?
TW
sounds to me like you're being every bit as stubborn as your brother. sure, hiking and running a marathon are completely different, but it's still more in the head than in the feet.
dreamsoftrails
08-23-2009, 16:58
Your brother will be fine......he is fit enough to push through the hard climbs until his legs catch up with his cardiovascular fitness. There's a hiker on the trail right now (her trailname is Evergreen) who is a marathon runner and she is doing great. I ran into her atleast once a day between Springer and Fontana Dam and she always looked as though she wasn't even working hard.
i saw her a couple of times on the trail this year, in the neighborhood of kincora. she was definitely making the miles then. i believe i heard she finished at the K sometime in july.
flemdawg1
08-23-2009, 18:09
there's no need for training period, unless an arbitrary goal of mileage per day has been decided up front.
i just hiked half the trail this spring and i have been training for a half marthon in november. i think there is a lot of similarity in the aches and pains encountered.
his feet will just be sore in a different manner than running as from hiking. hiking will be closer to 'strength training' whereas marathon is an endurance thing, but its not quite that black and white. i think he will be fine, but he's not going to be all that 'better' than anyone else out there.
As a 2-time marathoner and 6x HMer this has pretty much been my experience as well. Feet are sore more from the rocky surfaces, glutes and hammies sore as a day after hill repeats.
Unless your training is hiking big miles in mountains, he's probably going to be in better shape than you.
modiyooch
08-23-2009, 19:00
My stubborn marathon running brother wants to hike the trail , no need for training- he says.How do I convince him using technical info that it's not the same? not the same muscles, tendons, pressure, feet, toes? it must be almost professional advice, he's stubborn ...I had the same mind set about running a marathon, no need for training. If I can backpack 26 miles in a day, I can run 26 miles..... I don't think that you can train for backpacking anyway and at least he is mentally and physically fit. He'll be fine.
Tell him to run trail marathons/ultramarathons. Slap a backpack on ya, and you're good to go :)
It's the same.
That is incorrect.
Having run marathons (and ultras..ALL SLOWLY!) and have done a fair amount of backpacking, I have to say it is a different beast all together. Others agree as well.
One is a short burst of energy (relatively) and one is a long, slow burn.
Just ask my tall, thin running buddy why he can't keep up with me in the mountains and see if it is the same. :) No aid stations/carrying a pack makes a difference as well..and then repeating it day after day.
Look up short twitch vs. long twitch nerve fibers if you want the scientific goodness.
As for training... You don't need to train per se, but any activity helps if you are not a fat ass and in good shape. Hiking included. :)
In my opinion, if all he will be doing is 'normal' hiking (i.e. 15-20 miles per day, pack weight of 25-35 lbs) and if he is a marathon runner, then there is no need whatsoever for extra or specialized physical training. Aerobically, he is already in better shape than 99.9%; mentally, he's accustomed to pushing hard and working through pain; physically, I'd assume that he's not obese, has a low percentage of body fat, and good leg muscle development.
While hiking will involve using muscle groups that he wouldn't use while running, still he'll be just fine. From what I've seen, a high percentage of hikers all but get off the couch, strap on a pack, and go -- they're sore and tired and many are exhausted after a dozen miles, but they do just fine. Put differently, while 99% of all marathon runners would do fine on a 'normal' hike, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that a non-marathon hiker could run a marathon in maximum acceptable time (less than 4 hours) without undertaking weeks of serious training.
He'll do fine on the fitness part. It's the other aspects that may be quite a surprise to him: feet/blisters, unless using his running shoes - then less likely to be a problem. Soreness from using muscles differently - with weight.
It's doubtful he'll respect the rigors of backpacking until he's done it. Experience is the best teacher.
modiyooch
08-24-2009, 10:17
He'll do fine on the fitness part. It's the other aspects that may be quite a surprise to him: feet/blisters, unless using his running shoes - then less likely to be a problem. Soreness from using muscles differently - with weight.
It's doubtful he'll respect the rigors of backpacking until he's done it. Experience is the best teacher.IMO, the physical can be mastered; the mental is the biggest hurdle. While section hiking this year, the comment was made that it was harder for section hikers because we have to "get our trail legs" each time we come out, which is true; but I know and wished that I had answered, that it's much easier from the mental aspect.
modiyooch
08-24-2009, 10:23
. Put differently, while 99% of all marathon runners would do fine on a 'normal' hike, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that a non-marathon hiker could run a marathon in maximum acceptable time (less than 4 hours) without undertaking weeks of serious training. 5 hrs 22 minutes with my normal backpacking breaks including water and lunch breaks, sit downs, and even jumped into a store for a break. I didn't say a competitive marathon; just completing a marathon. yes, my legs were screaming; but I recovered quickly. No, I will not run another, I don't think.
fredmugs
08-24-2009, 11:32
Agree with the brother. A marathon runner should have no problems hiking the trail. I ride an exercise bike and try to do 2 AT section hikes a year. I have no problem hiking 20 - 25 mile days. I have a friend on mine who's around 50 who is a bicycle racer and I cannot even remotely keep up with him on a hike.
Lone Wolf
08-24-2009, 11:50
long distance running prepares you for long distance backpacking and vice versa. i ran a 54 mile ultra 2 months after a thru-hike in a time of 8hrs. 47mins.
Fiddleback
08-24-2009, 12:30
Some years ago my also stubborn brother was joining us for a three-nighter in Chugiak State Park, AK. A smoker, I told him he needed to 'get in shape' for the hike. "No," he responded, "I play golf."
After that blatant denial I just let it go and made sure he carried all the last day's meals...
That's what brothers are for.
FB
jersey joe
08-24-2009, 12:35
Your brother is right to a degree, if he is in shape running, the thru-hike should be an easy transition physically. As others have said, the mental aspect of hiking day after day is where the big change/challenge will be.
Kerosene
08-24-2009, 14:08
long distance running prepares you for long distance backpacking and vice versa. i ran a 54 mile ultra 2 months after a thru-hike in a time of 8hrs. 47mins.Yes, but you're a stud ex-Marine (albeit now an older stud ex-Marine with a bad ticker)! :D
While section hiking this year, the comment was made that it was harder for section hikers because we have to "get our trail legs" each time we come out, which is true; but I know and wished that I had answered, that it's much easier from the mental aspect.Totally agree. You can get away with short-cuts as a section hiker, knowing you're off the trail in days rather than months. One other drawback, as a section hiker, is that you're somewhat beholden to a schedule.
A marathon runner, or any practicing athlete of an aerobic sport, will fare much better on a difficult section hike than a couch potato, but it's still not the same. I'd argue that even the mindset is a little different, although an athlete who has pushed through pain will do better than someone who hasn't. Hopefully he'll get out there and enjoy the experience of being outdoors without a dozen fellow runners around him!
Lone Wolf
08-24-2009, 14:17
Yes, but you're a stud ex-Marine (albeit now an older stud ex-Marine with a bad ticker)! :D
FORMER Marine not ex. i'm not as lean and not as mean but i'm still a Marine
garlic08
08-24-2009, 14:39
5 hrs 22 minutes with my normal backpacking breaks including water and lunch breaks, sit downs, and even jumped into a store for a break. I didn't say a competitive marathon; just completing a marathon. yes, my legs were screaming; but I recovered quickly. No, I will not run another, I don't think.
Wow, congratulations on that! I've always wondered how I would do on a marathon attempt. The other day, hiking into town with an empty food bag after a 165 mile resupply, I made 20 miles in six hours easily, and that included a 2000' climb. No way would I make a four-hour marathon, but I think I could do it in six or seven at a real fast walk.
Do they wait that long at marathon finish lines? I heard somewhere that some marathons are starting to cater to fast walkers.
Pretty shaggy, too. For a Marine.
Jester2000
08-24-2009, 14:57
Some years ago my also stubborn brother was joining us for a three-nighter in Chugiak State Park, AK. A smoker, I told him he needed to 'get in shape' for the hike. "No," he responded, "I play golf." . . .
Did he carry all of his gear in a golf bag? 'Cause, you know, that would qualify him to get mentioned in the "seen anything weird on the trail?" thread. Plus the spikes on his shoes would give him great traction.
As with many topics, I would listen to Lone Wolf here (there's no such thing as an ex-Marine!), as he's been a running fiend of late.
Ask your brother if being in marathon shape is adequate for doing an Ironman? I'm guessing he'll say no. Say "why not?" He'll likely say "cause you have to develop different muscles differently for cycling and swimming." Say, "well, the same holds true for backpacking."
Do they wait that long at marathon finish lines? I heard somewhere that some marathons are starting to cater to fast walkers.
Most do -- there is invariably a stated cut-off time on registration forms telling when roads will be opened again to traffic and official chip timing will stop. For a marathon, the time limit is usually between 5-7 hours, which is a fast walking pace. Since marathons need lots of runners to break even financially, it's in their interest to keep the course open as long as possible so as not to limit registration.
The general rule of thumb is that a runner should be able to do a 5k in under 30 min. before racing in a 10k, a 10k in under an hour before trying a half, a half marathon in under 2 hrs. before racing a marathon, and a marathon in under 4. Those are very generous times.
modiyooch
08-24-2009, 16:59
Do they wait that long at marathon finish lines? I heard somewhere that some marathons are starting to cater to fast walkers.Here is the time limit for the marathon that I ran (Nashville Country Music Marathon):
Course Time Limits
Due to road closure time constraints, all Marathon participants who reach the 11-mile mark (the location where the Marathon and Half Marathon courses separate) at 10:40 am or later (16:30 per mile pace / 7:12 marathon) will be directed to finish the ½ Marathon course. All participants planning to run the Marathon are encouraged to train to complete the race in less than 7 hours – the official course time limit.
Camping Dave
08-30-2009, 14:26
The general rule of thumb is that a runner should be able to do a 5k in under 30 min. before racing in a 10k, a 10k in under an hour before trying a half, a half marathon in under 2 hrs. before racing a marathon, and a marathon in under 4. Those are very generous times.
Nonsense. 18K+ people finished last year's Marine Corp Marathon. The average pace was 4:40 overall, 4:31 for men, and 4:53 for women. And plenty of people do a half or full marathon as their first race.
Plenty of people start a thru-hike with NO prior training at all. As long as he listens to his body and doesn't try to hike marathon distances his first several days, he should be fine. Assuming he has the right mental attitude.
Honestly, a long-distance hike is more about not burning out mentally than physically. Physically, you get better until you completely burn away all your body fat, then hunger starts eating away muscle. If he has a typical marathoner build, this might actually be his biggest physical challenge.
Look up short twitch vs. long twitch nerve fibers if you want the scientific goodness.
A minor point, but you're primarily using long twitch fibers in both backpacking and marathons. Think wide receivers in football if you're talking short twitch: sprinting short distances, jumping, and other more explosive-type movements.
It's actually pretty fascinating stuff. Short twitch fibers have more cellular machinery to process glucose, which burns bright but fast. They're doing most of the work for the first 15-30 minutes of a run. "The Wall" that runners (at least out of shape runners like me) hit occurs once you've exhausted your readily available glucose and the long twitchers start taking over. Their cellular machinery is adapted towards the metabolism of fats, of which your body has more stored in a readily available fashion.
All of this corresponds to the white and dark meat in poultry. The dark meat (slow twitchers) is found in weight-bearing areas (e.g. turkey legs) that require stamina but not much explosiveness, while the white meat is found in the breast, which is where the musculature responsible for the brief explosive movements of wing-flapping is found. The difference in color is due to the difference in primary fuel stores: the fuel in dark meat is skewed towards fats while the fuel in white meats is skewed toward glycogen. This is why people consider the white meat healthier.
How this is relevant to the OP, I do not know.
Jester2000
08-30-2009, 15:45
All this talk of explosive short twitch fibers is getting me kind of excited.
Nonsense. 18K+ people finished last year's Marine Corp Marathon. The average pace was 4:40 overall, 4:31 for men, and 4:53 for women. And plenty of people do a half or full marathon as their first race.
No, what you implied is nonsense. Read carefully. While many, and in some cases most, may cover 26.2 miles in a time exceeding 4 hours, that doesn't mean that it's a reasonable running time. If it takes over 4 hours, then while you may be covering a marathon distance, it would be a stretch to call it running a marathon. In the same context, it's a stretch to call merely paying the registration fee and covering 13.1 miles in +2 hours "racing."
All this talk of explosive short twitch fibers is getting me kind of excited.
I praise your determined perversity.
Jester2000
08-30-2009, 16:31
I praise your determined perversity.
I praise all of those who, virus-like, are corrupting other threads with the "In Praise of Me" thread.
A minor point, but you're primarily using long twitch fibers in both backpacking and marathons.
I would argue that a marathon runner (esp one who is running most of the race and on roads) certainly has more short twitch never fibers than a backpacker. The speed of a marathon is much more intense than a 26 mile backpack.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly15.htm
(IS this where you got your chicken analogy from ??!?!! It is a good one BTW)
That 75/25 ratio (long/short) is gonna be even more skewed in dedicated backpackers vs marathon runners.
Ultrarunners (and trail runners in general) probably have the musculature/never fibers more analogous to backpackers esp those backpacker who hike long days/fast.
Go long..go slow is how most ultrarunners go (an elite ultra runner averages 6 MPH/10 min miles for over 100 miles in something like the Leadville 100. Impressive..but slow compared to the more intense and quick pace of an elite marathon runner. Apples and pineapples.. Kinda like backpacking and running. ;) )
[/QUOTE]
How this is relevant to the OP, I do not know [/QUOTE]
And that is why many marathon runners cave on multiday backpacks esp of the intense long hiking day/elevation gain types.
Any person who thinks (road in particular) marathon running and mutliday backpacking is the same is well, probably not correct.
Running in a a marathon, on a road, with aid stations for one day is a different activity and skill set.
..and that is how it relates.
I would argue that a marathon runner (esp one who is running most of the race and on roads) certainly has more short twitch never fibers than a backpacker. The speed of a marathon is much more intense than a 26 mile backpack.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly15.htm
(IS this where you got your chicken analogy from ??!?!! It is a good one BTW)
That 75/25 ratio (long/short) is gonna be even more skewed in dedicated backpackers vs marathon runners.
Ultrarunners (and trail runners in general) probably have the musculature/never fibers more analogous to backpackers esp those backpacker who hike long days/fast.
Go long..go slow is how most ultrarunners go (an elite ultra runner averages 6 MPH/10 min miles for over 100 miles in something like the Leadville 100. Impressive..but slow compared to the more intense and quick pace of an elite marathon runner. Apples and pineapples.. Kinda like backpacking and running. ;) )
How this is relevant to the OP, I do not know [/quote]
And that is why many marathon runners cave on multiday backpacks esp of the intense long hiking day/elevation gain types.
Any person who thinks (road in particular) marathon running and mutliday backpacking is the same is well, probably not correct.
Running in a a marathon, on a road, with aid stations for one day is a different activity and skill set.
..and that is how it relates.[/quote]
Alright!!! An argument/discussion with one of my favorite WB posters. My main (albeit minor) point was that the primary muscle cell type relied upon by marathoners and thru-hikers is the slow twitchers. Your reference link agrees:
"For example, marathon runners have 75% slow twitch fibers while sprinters have 75% fast twitch fiber"
Perhaps you're right in that thru-hikers may exceed the 75/25 ratio seen in marathoners, though I doubt if that study has been done. I would be surprised, however, if the difference was dramatic or "statistically significant." I think where you may be mistaken is that you're placing too much emphasis upon speed and not enough on the length of time it takes to exhaust the short twitchers: it is not a matter of days/weeks/months but minutes. A marathoner probably exhausts his/her short twitchers within 3-4 miles and a thru-hiker does the same within a shorter climb up a moderately challenging ascent.
The chicken analogy is indeed a good one...it's the reason that I remember this particular lecture much more clearly than the thousands of others that I've heard in med school. The first time I was presented with this information, the lecturer used the same instructive analogy. I doubt he read your link, but it's likely that the original source, if you go back far enough, is the same scientific article.
I agree that the challenges of backpacking and running are indeed like apples and pineapples, but not necessarily for reasons pertaining to muscle cell types. I do have to admit that I've neither run a marathon nor thru-hiked (which my esteemed conversant has done in spades (though I hope that I may claim the latter as of next fall)), but I have had an obscene amount of classroom instruction in physiology. So, yes, multiday backpacking and marathon running are different animals; however, I am more inclined to attribute this to the mental/emotional aspects of this and, to a lesser extent, the different muscle groups involved, than I am to different muscle cell types.
A quick caveat: I've been wrong before, and I'm loathe to disparage the opinions of those with experience that I do not yet possess. I'm simply regurgitating what I've been told by those whose resumes I respect.
Peter
The chicken analogy is not actually an analogy. Analogy implies a similar logical process applied to a different situation. The poultry business is in fact a direct comparison: the biochemistry behind it is nearly identical.
however, I am more inclined to attribute this to the mental/emotional aspects of this and, to a lesser extent, the different muscle groups involved, than I am to different muscle cell types.
\
Fair enough. I am using rough layman's terms while you are putting it much more precise scientific terms. Otherwise, I think we are saying similar thoughts.
I think a better comparison is between ultra-trail runners and fast/long backpackers than road runners from what I've seen (an experienced) to be honest. I've honestly seen marathon runners (again mainly road based) not do well because they do not have the overall endurance.
YMMV.
The chicken analogy is not actually an analogy. Analogy implies a similar logical process applied to a different situation. The poultry business is in fact a direct comparison: the biochemistry behind it is nearly identical.
Now you are being like a certain poop-packing lawyer. :p
heyoka87
08-30-2009, 23:45
Well I have run 3 marathons. Nothing special mind you 3:41 best time. I was half way up to Horns Pond in the Bigalows when I relized that the upper body muscle use made hiking , I thought , a lot harder than marathoning. In the marathon you use a specialized group of muscles on a smooth track. It takes determination and grit to run one granted but hiking presents so many unanticipated hurdles- the mud, muck,rocks, bugs,elevation changes,diet issues ect. It's not that nice closed off road or parkway with aid stations and the "meatwagons" cruising around picking up the halt and lame. Don't get me wrong the marathon is noble goal. It's the Holy Grail if you will of distance running. Dr George Sheehan the running guru said it is designed to break you in two. My thing is it is so controlled as far as your environment compared to hiking which always has neverending menu of changing challenges. Just my opinion. Both of them aren,t for the faint of heart.
Well I have run 3 marathons. Nothing special mind you 3:41 best time.
You deserve congrats for a 3:41. I'd be very satisfied with that time.
And I definitely agree with you -- it's designed to break a person and it's not for the faint of heart. Even so, it's highly addictive.
modiyooch
08-31-2009, 08:44
You deserve congrats for a 3:41. I'd be very satisfied with that time.
And I definitely agree with you -- it's designed to break a person and it's not for the faint of heart. Even so, it's highly addictive.both are highly addictive.
We need for the woman marathon runner from western carolina to weigh in. I believe she just broke the record for female thru hike.
Being one, I know that there are quite a few overweight hikers but you just don't see that many overweight marathon runners.
Pedaling Fool
08-31-2009, 14:53
Being one, I know that there are quite a few overweight hikers but you just don't see that many overweight marathon runners.
There's also a lot of overweight cyclists. However, the cyclists that particiapte in a lot of racing or iron man events don't have the same weight issues:-?
Lone Wolf
08-31-2009, 15:28
i'm running a 16 mile trail race this saturday. what's a reasonable finishing time?
Jester2000
08-31-2009, 15:59
i'm running a 16 mile trail race this saturday. what's a reasonable finishing time?
Dunno. Not last?
Jester2000
08-31-2009, 16:00
It's just runnin'.
kolokolo
08-31-2009, 18:22
Back to the subject of the OP...
I think that a marathon runner has just about all of the conditioning needed to do a long hike. The only question would be upper body strength, but the need for that conditioning would depend on how much weight he/she was carrying.
And, like Bearpaw said somewhere up above, mental preparedness is at least as important anyway.
jersey joe
08-31-2009, 18:44
Back to the subject of the OP...
I think that a marathon runner has just about all of the conditioning needed to do a long hike. The only question would be upper body strength, but the need for that conditioning would depend on how much weight he/she was carrying.
And, like Bearpaw said somewhere up above, mental preparedness is at least as important anyway.
I don't think upper body strength is really an issue with the ability to go ultra light these days. I do agree that the mental aspect is important. Thinking about it though, the mental aspect of the day in/day out training for a marathon has similarities to thru-hiking.
Now you are being like a certain poop-packing lawyer. :p
Ouch...I deserved that.
madizazzo
09-02-2009, 14:03
Take it an old man: "You can't teach someone something they already know."
And it's corollary: "NEVER offer unsolicited advice."
mike d
Trailbender
09-04-2009, 18:23
FORMER Marine not ex. i'm not as lean and not as mean but i'm still a Marine
Same here, only I was Army. You never really stop being a soldier.
My stubborn marathon running brother wants to hike the trail , no need for training- he says.How do I convince him using technical info that it's not the same? not the same muscles, tendons, pressure, feet, toes? it must be almost professional advice, he's stubborn ...
He's right.
:eek:
Using the same shoes and a lightweight pack he should have no trouble (unless he's afraid of dirt and/or bugs :p).
i'm running a 16 mile trail race this saturday. what's a reasonable finishing time?
Uh, tell us how you do.
Glad you're around to do it!
Lone Wolf
09-04-2009, 22:11
Uh, tell us how you do.
Glad you're around to do it!
race starts in 9 hours. i'll let ya know
I'll be biking 18 mi. to work tomorrow - I know, not the same thing, but I'm trying to stay ahead of the aging game ;). Hiking for 2 weeks in a little over a week (now how do you type in a dancing banana ???).
i'm running a 16 mile trail race this saturday. what's a reasonable finishing time?
I'd be happy with 3:30 on a trail
race starts in 9 hours. i'll let ya know
So how did you do?
"It is not possible to step into the same river twice."
"It is not possible to step into the same river twice."
Sure, what now, who?:confused:
Lone Wolf
09-05-2009, 22:57
i'm running a 16 mile trail race this saturday. what's a reasonable finishing time?
Uh, tell us how you do.
Glad you're around to do it!
race starts in 9 hours. i'll let ya know
So how did you do?
i finished in 3hrs. 18mins. WBs own Alligator did the 30 miler in 7hrs. 15mins. his first trail race. he kicked ass!
Alligator
09-06-2009, 10:18
i finished in 3hrs. 18mins. WBs own Alligator did the 30 miler in 7hrs. 15mins. his first trail race. he kicked ass!Thanks Wolf, although this morning it feels like I got my ass kicked. Ouch!
Alligator
09-06-2009, 10:34
Great job yourself too Wolf. If I hadn't seen you post about the race, I wouldn't have thought to try it. Didn't know there were 30 mile races.
To Zammy, you might try to get your brother to try a trail run and then he would begin to see how the ups and downs are different than a marathon.
i finished in 3hrs. 18mins. WBs own Alligator did the 30 miler in 7hrs. 15mins. his first trail race. he kicked ass!
Good times for both of you.
Wow! 'Gator - Excellent.
Now you've got me thinking - maybe next year.
Lone Wolf
09-07-2009, 09:39
Good times for both of you.
Wow! 'Gator - Excellent.
Now you've got me thinking - maybe next year.
c'mon down. it's a lot of fun. would be good to have a bunch of WBers running
http://sites.google.com/site/ironmountaintrailrun/Home
dessertrat
09-07-2009, 11:18
My stubborn marathon running brother wants to hike the trail , no need for training- he says.How do I convince him using technical info that it's not the same? not the same muscles, tendons, pressure, feet, toes? it must be almost professional advice, he's stubborn ...
He can acclimate to it while on the trail just like anyone else can.
Different? Just take a look at some of the "body types" in the White Blaze gallery section. Amazing how some finish at all..................
Lone Wolf
09-07-2009, 16:40
Great job yourself too Wolf. If I hadn't seen you post about the race, I wouldn't have thought to try it. Didn't know there were 30 mile races.
just saw the results on facebook. you done good Albert Ligator :D
Cookerhiker
09-07-2009, 17:32
In 2006, I started a hike of the John Muir Trail (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=157147) but didn't finish. My hiking partner - a marathoner in his mid-50s - had never backpacked in his life. Not only did he finish, he hiked faster and stronger than lots of the young folks. Granted, the JMT is only 1/10 the length of the AT but after 200-some miles, you're either in shape or you're not.
You wanted "professional" advice and of course I can't give that - all I know is what I've observed. But basically agree with Lone Wolf - I don't think your brother needs to train at all. What he needs is good gear, read socks and footwear. As a runner, he's probably in-tune to when hot spots and blisters develop but he needs to pay attention.
Alligator
09-08-2009, 13:38
just saw the results on facebook. you done good Albert Ligator :DHaha, maybe that guy (or some variation thereof:D) will run the Masochist next year.