View Full Version : Condensation and Down Sleeping Bags
Don't quite know how to properly ask this question, but is the condensation inside a tent enough to damage a down sleeping bag or make sleeping uncomfortable . It seems like everyone raves about down bags over synthetic so I am assuming that there is no significant problem here.
What experience do you have in this regard?
BTW I just purchased a BA Copper Spur UL1 for my upcoming AT thru hike.
FamilyGuy
08-23-2009, 17:29
Condensation that accumulates on the inside of your tent can get on your sleeping bag. However, most sleeping bags have an effective durable water repellancy (DWR) that will simply make the water bead up and roll off. If there is copious condensation then yes, it can wet your sleeping bag enough to wet the insulation.
If down gets wet (really wet) it has no insulative value where synthetic insulation will. However, down is warmer for the weight and can last many more years than synthetic insulation, which begins decomposing as soon as it is made.
I think you will be just fine with a down bag. Should it get a little damp just dry it out when the sun comes out perhaps over your lunch break.
Besides wet performance, there is no benefit of synthetic insulation over that of down in a sleeping bag (I would have a different perspective on a jacket, however).
Nice tent, BTW.
Wise Old Owl
08-23-2009, 18:44
Though a little outside of your question, one thing came into play one year when the temps froze my water bottle solid one night I had ice on the down foot box of the bag. Since then I always put a fresh pair of hiking sock on when jumping in. I guess I sweat a lot down at the tootsy's!:D
Snowleopard
08-23-2009, 19:05
Be sure to keep your down bag (and warm clothing) dry. Use a plastic garbage bag or trash compactor bag inside your pack to keep things dry.
If you do get a lot of condensation on a humid night, use a bandanna or pack towel to dry the inside of your tent.
FamilyGuy said: Should it get a little damp just dry it out when the sun comes out perhaps over your lunch break. I usually do this on the theory that every day my bag gets a little damper (and colder), just from moisture from my body.
garlic08
08-23-2009, 19:20
It has never been an issue for me. Keeping a cotton bandanna handy is a good idea.
Eventually, heavy exposure to fog and condensation will slightly compromise the down, but usually not enough to ruin your trip. Dry the bag out in sunshine, a room, or a laundromat when you can.
FamilyGuy
08-23-2009, 19:44
I just thought of something else. In those conditions where I expect condensation to be an issue, I will put the end of my sleeping bag inside my rain shell to protect it from rubbing against the side or end of my shelter.
RedneckRye
08-23-2009, 21:36
I just thought of something else. In those conditions where I expect condensation to be an issue, I will put the end of my sleeping bag inside my rain shell to protect it from rubbing against the side or end of my shelter.
Bad idea.
Your breathable rain shell isn't all that breathable. Especially of there isn't a lot of heat pushing the moisture thru the breathable membrane of the rain shell. That is one of the reasons that no one makes a gore-tex bag or tent anymore.
Over a few nights you may have a bit of moisture work its way into the bag, but it is not a big deal. When you get into town (every 3 or 4 or 5 days) and are doing laundry, just toss your bag into the dryer for a $.25 cycle. Nice dry bag every time.
Toolshed
08-23-2009, 21:43
Tent condensation isn't really an issue.
Condensation feels like it is voluminous and very damaging, but only because it is usually colder, hence wet & not vapor and concentrated on the outer shell of your bag. You could have 10 times as much moisture in the bag clionging to down from perspiration and respiration and not realize it.
Your respiration and perspiration are the real hidden dangers. One can easily lose a pint or two of of perspiration through their feet during the course of a night - Straight into your down bag. There are other body areas that lose almost as much moisture as well.
This is the real cause of reduction of insulation in down bags over repeated use. That's why it is a good idea to air out your bag at lunch or diner or on rest breaks. Just unzip and hang it over something for 30 mins to an hour - Direct sunnlight helps.
Jim Adams
08-23-2009, 21:45
shouldn't be a problem as long as you cowboy camp, use a tarp, a hammock or a regular tent. stay away from single wall tents if you want to totally avoid condensation.
geek
FamilyGuy
08-23-2009, 22:58
Bad idea.
Your breathable rain shell isn't all that breathable. Especially of there isn't a lot of heat pushing the moisture thru the breathable membrane of the rain shell. That is one of the reasons that no one makes a gore-tex bag or tent anymore.
Over a few nights you may have a bit of moisture work its way into the bag, but it is not a big deal. When you get into town (every 3 or 4 or 5 days) and are doing laundry, just toss your bag into the dryer for a $.25 cycle. Nice dry bag every time.
No - its fine. Most body moisture comes from the torso and the mouth. My jacket is eVENT and is breathable. Of note, this is exactly what Hilleberg recommends. It works.
There are WP bags still made with dryvent, hyvent, eVENT, Epic, the list goes on so you are incorrect.
When you stop for lunch you can use your food bag rope to create a clothes line and hang your sleeping bag on that so that it dries out completely. Assuming of course its not raining..:D
Panzer
shouldn't be a problem as long as you cowboy camp, use a tarp, a hammock or a regular tent. stay away from single wall tents if you want to totally avoid condensation.
geek
HERESY! :D
Slight correction: A double walled tent doesn't prevent condensation, it just prevents you from touching it. In a tent with a mesh ceiling, your condensation may just come for a visit when rain knocks it from the inside of the fly. Steep sidewalls on the fly minimize this.
NO tent can protect you from a heavy fog - it rolls right through your mesh and makes everything damp.
The upside is that your body temperature helps to evaporate some of the moisture it puts into the bag via normal transpiration (low level sweat - which happens all the time).
Keep your bag out of the rain, rivers, and lakes and you should be just fine and revel in the fact that your bag has probably kept its temperature rating throughout your trip whereas those who started with synthetic bags are probably carrying extra clothing up in Maine in the fall to supplement the lost loft in their synthetic bags.
I think any event/DWR fabric on a bag tends to hold in the vapor more than holding out the liquid, that plus the extra weight/$ is better used on more or higher loft down. Only my -20 bag has a DWR coating on it and I got that because it happened to be the deal at the time on a bag that will seldom go out. In a few hundred nights out in all seasons with down bags I have never had problems that required days off/trip to town to dry a bag
RedneckRye
08-24-2009, 02:43
No - its fine. Most body moisture comes from the torso and the mouth. My jacket is eVENT and is breathable. Of note, this is exactly what Hilleberg recommends. It works.
There are WP bags still made with dryvent, hyvent, eVENT, Epic, the list goes on so you are incorrect.
eVent is far more breathable than Gore, but still far less breathable than DWR treated micro fiber nylon.
Does Hilleberg make bags? I thought they mainly did single wall tents, mainly distributed in europe.
Waterproof bags are indeed made by a number of manufacturers, but their actual real life uses are fairly limited. When was the last time last time a non-mountaineer slept in a snow cave?
Big tent, little tent, no tent - from my experience, I seem to have moisture in/on my bag around my mouth and my feet.
RedneckRye
08-24-2009, 02:48
Tent condensation isn't really an issue.
Condensation feels like it is voluminous and very damaging, but only because it is usually colder, hence wet & not vapor and concentrated on the outer shell of your bag. You could have 10 times as much moisture in the bag clionging to down from perspiration and respiration and not realize it.
Your respiration and perspiration are the real hidden dangers. One can easily lose a pint or two of of perspiration through their feet during the course of a night - Straight into your down bag. There are other body areas that lose almost as much moisture as well.
This is the real cause of reduction of insulation in down bags over repeated use. That's why it is a good idea to air out your bag at lunch or diner or on rest breaks. Just unzip and hang it over something for 30 mins to an hour - Direct sunnlight helps.
"There are other body areas that lose almost as much moisture as well."
Yet another reason to unzip the bag and step outside when you first wake up and feel the urge!
FamilyGuy
08-24-2009, 12:10
eVent is far more breathable than Gore, but still far less breathable than DWR treated micro fiber nylon.
Does Hilleberg make bags? I thought they mainly did single wall tents, mainly distributed in europe.
Waterproof bags are indeed made by a number of manufacturers, but their actual real life uses are fairly limited. When was the last time last time a non-mountaineer slept in a snow cave?
Big tent, little tent, no tent - from my experience, I seem to have moisture in/on my bag around my mouth and my feet.
No - eVENT is not 'far less breathable.' I use it in jackets and in two bivy bags of which I have never (NEVER) had condensation. So from a user to a poser, it works.
Two issues here - your feet sweat so I would recommend wearing socks to contain the accumulated moisture. Your feet are producing condensation. The second issue is the condensation that will accumulate on the inside of the tent wall. A waterproof jacket helps with this. And yes, Hilleberg recommends doing so if you expect copious amounts of condensation to accumulate on the tent walls.
Jim Adams
08-24-2009, 12:19
No - eVENT is not 'far less breathable.' I use it in jackets and in two bivy bags of which I have never (NEVER) had condensation. So from a user to a poser, it works.
Two issues here - your feet sweat so I would recommend wearing socks to contain the accumulated moisture. Your feet are producing condensation. The second issue is the condensation that will accumulate on the inside of the tent wall. A waterproof jacket helps with this. And yes, Hilleberg recommends doing so if you expect copious amounts of condensation to accumulate on the tent walls.
RedneckRye,
I'm with you on this one. :cool:
geek
Cookerhiker
08-24-2009, 12:32
Good thread - I'm learning a lot.
Related question - probably a dumb one: With my synthetic bags, I bring damp clothing e.g. socks and shirt into the bag with me at night and they dry by morning with no ill effects on the bag. At least it's worked for me. So I assume one can't do this with a down bag?
I've always used synthetic until 2 years ago when I bought a Kelty 45 degree downbag for late spring, summer, early fall camping.
saimyoji
08-24-2009, 12:59
cooker....yes you can, it works well with down as well as synthetic, just know that the moisture that comes off whatever you are drying has to go somewhere...either into the insulation, into your clothes, out of the bag....etc.
something i find works well when drying stuff in my down bag is, in the morning, to compress the bag to squeeze out all the moist air, then let it loft up again. if its particularly damp do it a few times.
ymmv
brooklynkayak
08-24-2009, 13:15
stay away from single wall tents if you want to totally avoid condensation.
Do you need to totally avoid condensation? Get used to it. People make too big of a deal about condensation.
If it is getting into your sleeping bag that is another matter and you may need to modify your shelter.
I only use single wall shelters, tarps and tarptents. The worst I have had was multiple nights camping inside rain clouds. The condensation totally coated the inside of the tarp, outside as well as everything else in the area. My sleeping bag got a little damp, but the coating kept it from the down or at least my body heat evaporated any that made it in.
I do air out my gear as often as practical. A double wall tent needs the aired out just as much as a single walled shelter. As stated earlier, they suffer form condensation like everything else and will get smelly if left packed wet.
OldStormcrow
08-24-2009, 13:56
The only problem I run into with condensation is when I'm in one of my tents that is too short for me and my bag rubs against the ends of the tent. I'm about 6'2" and with a sleeping bag that's about 6'6". I always leave a lot of ventilation by keeping the door unzipped about 1/2 way open and that helps. The small amount of moisture that I do get on the ends of my down bags usually drys out soon enough.
mateozzz
08-24-2009, 14:17
When I slept in the shelter on Tray mountain on a foggy rainy night and my bag got damp enough that it lost a little loft and I didn't feel as warm. If your tent is humid enough to have condenstation your bag will be slightly damp, too. So on any dry morning you should air your unzipped bag for as long as you can before you stuff it away.
I would say, for three season camping, it's a non-issue. Especially with the shell materials that are being used nowadays, which keep out the worst of the water.
My fiance bought a Sierra Designs Down bag for her 1st bag. We were so excited that we went out that very night car camping!! Even though it was the middle of summer and way to hot for her bag (its a 15* bag). We have a Kelty Grand Mesa 2 tent. The night was very still and the humidity was high. When we woke up in the morning her bag was a little wet.....It had dampened the bag just a little, and it freaked us out!!
This is how we learned of condensation....I hadnt noticed it until then.
That night we had the fly on and there was no air blowing to help with circulation.
Now we just bring a bandana or a pack towel and wipe the tent down and we will let the bag air out when we get a chance.
I am going to get a TT Rainshadow 2 eventually and I will be wondering about the condensation issues with it, we will see.....