How do you find time to Thru-Hike?

[bailyrosco]

I want to thru-hike so bad I can taste it. I will not be fulfilled with my life goals if I do not complete this task. How does one convice there family that this is what I need to do? How do you take time from a job with out losinig everything you have built up? Sometimes I want to just pack my bags kiss my kids on the forehead and tell my wife I will be in touch and just leave for Springer. I will deal with the Job, kids and Wife when I get back. I know if I do that there is noway I can enjoy the AT. I need the blessing of my wife and the understanding of my kids to do this(or do I). (3 years,12 years and soon to be newborn) I see that a lot of post are by younger hikers that do not have these extra family pressures. I also see many of you are in you 40's or close to it that must be dealing with these same emotions and situations. I was set on a thru hike and now I find myself somewhat getting depressed knowing that the best I might beable to do is section hike. :-?

[kentucky]

i can only say a section hike is better than nothing at all ,and what hiker is really ever thrue hiking,kentucky

[kentucky]

i can only say a section hike is better than nothing at all ,and what hiker is really ever thrue hiking,kentuckyI would not get cought up in the rat race of thrue hiking you miss the whole point of why your out their.

[MOWGLI]

I want to thru-hike so bad I can taste it. I will not be fulfilled with my life goals if I do not complete this task. How does one convice there family that this is what I need to do? How do you take time from a job with out losinig everything you have built up? Sometimes I want to just pack my bags kiss my kids on the forehead and tell my wife I will be in touch and just leave for Springer. I will deal with the Job, kids and Wife when I get back. I know if I do that there is noway I can enjoy the AT. I need the blessing of my wife and the understanding of my kids to do this(or do I). (3 years,12 years and soon to be newborn) I see that a lot of post are by younger hikers that do not have these extra family pressures. I also see many of you are in you 40's or close to it that must be dealing with these same emotions and situations. I was set on a thru hike and now I find myself somewhat getting depressed knowing that the best I might beable to do is section hike. :-?

Well, you won't "find" the time. You have to make the time. I was 38 when I thru hiked. I had a 10 year old at home. My wife and I participated in a Simplicity Circle, and the thru-hike was a "product" of that process.

http://www.simpleliving.net/seedsofsimplicity/simplicity_circles.asp

Essentially we downsized our lifestyle to the point where we almost could afford for me to hike. I set out in March 2000 with my wife's blessings. I gotta say, it was a real strain on our marriage. The year long funk that I fell in after the hike didn't help much.

Fast forward to today... We have left New York behind and are living in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Both of us have halved our salaries in order to relocate. We're closer to family, enjoying life, but have more financial pressures than we have ever had. The thru-hike probably cost me $50,000 when you factor inlost income, expenses, and the like. I'm still paying that off today.

It's all about choices. A thru-hike can be a great experience, but for now, section hiking might make more sense for you. I am on my second marriage (going on 15 years). I have learned that when you have a good partner, you hold on to that and cherish it. What my thru-hike taught me is that family is the most important thing that I have. I never would have guessed that would be the #1 lesson.

I hope that helps.

Little Bear
GA-ME 2000

[icemanat95]

Yup, you've got to make the time. That means setting up your life, saving money, cashing out investments or whatever else it takes to keep your family and meet your obligations while you are gone. Most of us end up quitting our jobs. Some of us talk to our bosses and take a leave of absence, allowing us to resume our jobs when we get back, but that's real rare since it's just plain poor business for an employer to allow a key employee to leave without replacing them. If they replace them and have made this commitment to the old employee, then they are stuck either trying to find work for the old employee, or dumping the new guy who may be a good employee, or even better than the old. In today's job market, it's probably pretty easy to replace most of us, so why allow a potential hole in our team for 6 months? Plan on giving up the job. If you can get it back when you return from the hike, great, if not, find a new one.

It is difficult for an established person to break off from their life and do a thru-hike. I couldn't even imagine it now. I'm commited to too much to step out of life again.

My own thru-hike took place during a transition phase. I had just dissolved a bad marriage and was between meaningful employment, so it was easy for me to just quit my job, pack my gear and go. That opportunity is unlikely to arise again. So now I hike days, the odd weekend or week and someday I'll be seriously section hiking again, but probably only my favorite sections.

If you want to thru that badly thouhg, I strongly advise you to talk it out with your wife, go to a financial planner to see what can be done to get your finances in order and then start planning things out. If it is really that important to you, it will be worth it to you to wait 5 years to get all your ducks in a row.

[kevin]

I'm with those suggesting a section hike...at least as a trial. How much time have you spent away from the wife and kids? I know on my section, the thing that sent me home early was not the heel blisters or any physical issues, but instead the fact that I didn't want to wait another month to see my wife. Take a two week section and see if this is an issue for you. Also, keep in mind that with three kids, that is putting a lot of pressure on your wife to be a single mom for several months. Not trying to be a wet blanket, just some things to think about.

[Youngblood]

Most folks are in transition, like just retired or just out of school. If you don't need to work for an income, the cost isn't all that much. However, not too many people in your situation can pull it off because the 'cost is too high'.

Youngblood

[SavageLlama]

Just do it.

As John Muir so eloquently said, "throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence."

I'm sure it's an experience you won't regret.

[johnny quest]

this is a topic im happy to see discussed. im 42 with teens and a wife who isnt thrilled with the idea of a thru hike. but im not interested in putting it off till im 65. i have announced that i will be thru hiking in 2008 when the kids are all out of the house. by then i will have the house paid for and we may be looking to relocate. im determined to make it work...i dont know that i would like myself very much if i dont and i know i would be hard to get along with.

[Pencil Pusher]

If your wives are not too understanding, what if they told you they were going on a vacation to Europe for five months and wanted you to stay home and take care of the kids? If I had a wife and kids, I'd gladly foresake the opportunity to thru until I was an old man. Bailyrosco has a newborn on the way... Follow iceman's advice and do a 5 year plan.

[johnny quest]

five year plan? who are you, stalin?
how will a five year old be easier to leave than a newborn? i will agree taht the kids need to be the major consideration, if that is your point. but i think everyone understands that these are hard decisions to make. in my case my wife actually used to me being gone for 6 to 8 months at a time when i was in the marines. silly girl, she just doesnt equate my thruhike with defending the country.

i think we all need to look at our own special situation and look for those transition times in our life...high school to college, college to work force, divorce, emptying nest, career ending, retirement,...and work toward one of those AND be ready to make it fit if one suddenly comes up.

[Cheerio]

I think the major factor in Thru-ing is setting up your financial situation. This can take years.

I'd recommend getting rid of all credit debt and other debt other than long term stuff like a mortage. Once this is gone, its amazing how much more cash is available for saving on a monthly basis. Plus, while your gone, there are fewer $$ going out the door.
Take your lifestyle NOW down to a minimum $ output. Not only will it help you save now, but it will be easier for the family to maintain while you are gone and also when you come back and are searching for a job. All the standard cutbacks; eating out, movies, nights out on the town, buying new clothes and household stuff, eating cheaper stuff at home - lots of cooking from scratch as its cheaper than packaged stuff. When I left, I had zero credit debt, my car was paid for and since I rented - there was no mortage. I put my belongings in storage and set that payment up to come automatically out of my checking acct. Being on the trail was cheaper than living a normal life - but there was no income coming in.

I'm not married so I cant speak to that issue - but I think most spouses would feel differently about the other being gone if they felt that financially everything was handled and that the family was in a secure place. If your spouse works and you have small children - maybe find someone who can move in w/ her while you are gone and help her out. Some friend or relative who could use cheap, or free, rent in return for helping w/ the kids and the house. Your spouse should feel completely comfortable living off her salary for monthly expenses.

Its going to take a few years just to get organzied - so its a good idea to try out a long section hike just to see how you BOTH do w/ the separation. I'd try 3 weeks if you can get the time off work.

Either way you go - its going to be a great journey! I started out thru-ing and turned it into a series of long sections. I'm still not done, and enjoy the idea that there is always more trail for me when I'm ready for it.

Cheerio

[ATSeamstress]

I got the "bug" about 5 years ago, with a 14-year-old daughter
at home and 20 years service at my job. For me the best decision
was to wait until 2009, by which time I could retire (at age 47,
still plenty young enough), my house would be paid for, and my
daughter would be through college and on her own. Yes, it's killing
me to wait but for me it was the right thing to do for my daughter,
and financially it made more sense. With a full retirement I can
hike all I want. Meanwhile I'm gaining lots of experience, honing my
skills and refining my gear while hiking sections each year.

My advice would be to work out a plan, with your wife's input
and blessing, and then get to work making it happen. I would
definitely consider hiking in sections, at least a first.

[bailyrosco]

WOW thanks for all the input. Little Bear great input. My wife was reading over my shoulder. That in its self my open the line of communication realizing there are others out there that have or want to do the same thing. Great thread, I look forward to seeing more input. Sgt. Rock I was looking forward to your input.

[minnesotasmith]

You don't need to...


Buy another anything that plugs into the wall, including computers, video game anything, music anything, TVs, air conditioners, refrigerators, freezers, electric snowblowers, lamps, power tools, hairdryers, curling irons, dishwashers, clothes washers/dryers, electric heaters, etc. Possible exception: food dehydrator/freeze dryer.
Go on vacations out of town.
Fly instead of driving.
Take any class that won't pay for itself before your thru-hike (or pay for anyone else to take any); classes that fail this test include most college classes, such as art/music/drama/history; any gender/ethnic stuff; any kind of advocacy; psychology, physics, anything theoretical, journalism, philosophy, social work, anthropology, cosmetology, sports anything, environmental anything, geology, aviation, law anything, computer programming, oceanography, sociology, floristry, interior decorating, public relations, counseling, political science, most foreign languages, many business classes, or any major mostly used in government employment. Classes that might pass this test: small engine repair, first aid/other (nonquack) medical, chemistry, public health, local wild plants, electrician/plumber/masonry apprenticeships, vegetable gardening/horticulture/practical agronomy classes, welding, firearm repair, locksmithing, pest control, millwright, process control technician, mechanic, logging/rough carpentry, hydraulic/chemical/electrical engineer, fence construction, butchering, sewing/clothes mending... you get the idea.
Go to movies or rent them.
Keep any TVs in the house; sell them or at least store them a few miles away (and remember to get the cable turned off, too). TV for most people is like a full-time job with no paycheck, and it's even worse for your kids.
Attend sporting events/cultural events/amusement parks.
Contribute any time or money to political or charitable groups (your family & your thru-hike come first).
Buy/read most fiction, e.g., romances, westerns, detective stories, fantasies, erotica, People, The National Enquirer, most best-sellers, most magazines, etc. You can always pick up Reader's Digest Condensed Books or other old books for a song at garage sales or use a public library (latter only if you can discipline yourself to avoid late fees).
Go alpine skiing/snowboarding, or buy equipment for it (sell any skis/boards you currently own).
Play video/computer games, cards, boardgames, assemble jigsaw puzzles, or fill out crossword puzzles.
Do a whole lot of housework if there is anyone in the house over 12 who is unemployed.
Use credit cards that cost you interest (or any, ideally).
Buy restaurant meals over $7.00.
Buy knicknacks such as figurines, mobiles, stuffed animals or windchimes (anything "cute" that performs nothing).
Go snowmobiling, or spend any money on the sport; instead, sell your snowmobile.
Hunt anything you can't eat.
Plant anything you can't eat.
Buy potpourri, incense, perfume, air freshener, or the like.
Buy or use most cosmetics (exceptions: women in some jobs, actors); no one needs them for school. Exception: a very few people with birthmarks/injury scars sufficiently severe that they effectively cannot function outside their dwelling without them.
Use the services of a taxidermist, prostitute, masseuse, manicurist, most counselors or therapists (exceptions: marriage or chemical dependence), fortuneteller, astrologist, tattoo artist, body piercer, etc.; the last two are not only money-wasters and health hazards, but they make you less employable. If the economy really tanks, employers will not be forced by labor shortages to hire people they would rather not use; don't be one of them.
Use tobacco, consume beverage alcohol, or have anything to do with any illegal drugs.
Drive or park in a way that results in a ticket.
Have the thermostat above 60 degrees in winter or under 78 in summer.
Have a radio/TV/music device/light on in an unoccupied room (exception: burglar deterrance) or one in which all occupants are asleep.
Behave in a manner that results in late fees (rent, utilities, library book overdues, etc.).
Voluntarily do anything involving photography unless it is your well-paying primary job.
Buy another animal (except perhaps a watchdog; your wife may feel better with one while you are gone on your thru-hike) or buy functionless "things" for the animals you already have.
Buy gifts or attend social occasions for people who mean little to you (will include some relatives).
Participate in gambling, including casinos, the state lottery, office sports pools, raffles, etc.
Undergo elective plastic surgery (facelifts, liposuction, nose jobs, etc.).
Visit a chiropractor, aroma therapist, acupuncturist, traditional/Asian medicine person, or Indian medicine man.
Decorate in any way for any holidays/occasions (home or work) or in any other way spend time or money to celebrate them.
Buy a fur anything (I'm not against furs per se; they're just prohibitively expensive, and I'd rather have thru-hiked than have a mink coat in the house).
Buy anything to put on the wall, or do any other arts & crafts stuff (no, your wife/daughter WON'T be able to make money on a net basis selling that kind of stuff).
Buy caviar, pate, shellfish such as lobster or fresh clams/oysters, expensive cuts of meat, or other expensive foods or beverages; you don't have to eat meat or desserts every single day, either.
Visit a beauty parlor/barber/stylist for anything except infrequent simple & inexpensive haircuts (no curling/straightening/coloring of hair).
Do any motorboating/sailboating/ice skating/ rollerskating/skateboarding; sell the equipment.
Buy any kind of ornamental plant, whether live or plastic, yard or potted.
Buy a new (or otherwise expensive) car; you only need one that will run until a year after your thru-hike.
Buy fireworks, car ornaments, cut flowers, jewelry, sports memorabilia, collectibles of any type, chewing gum, or drinking straws.
Buy any carpeting.
Instigate lawsuits if they are likely to be money-losers or still be in progress by Springer-time.
Cosign a loan or pay bail/fines for anyone not in your household.
Have only one job, unless it either consistently gives you lots of paid overtime, or you are actively studying something that passes the test of item #4.
Have anyone in the household over the age of 14 unemployed (even 70-year-old Grandma can find something to do that brings in money, presuming she still has her mind).
Buy new (or much) furniture.
Build on to your house.
Drive children to anything fun.
Use full-service fuel pumps at service stations, even if the weather is unpleasant.
Buy exercise equipment; instead, keep your eyes open for equipment that has been discarded (expensive nongated suburbs and near private colleges are good areas to look). Better yet, have everyone in the family start walking in place of driving whenever possible. You'll get in shape while you save money; everyone can do it (in 99% of weather conditions), and since you'll be unable to avoid walking your tail off on the Trail, you might as well start getting used to it now.
Buy herbal supplements; 99% of them are a total waste of money, and often hazardous to your health. Also, having once worked in a place that packaged them, I can tell you that herbal supplement quality control stinks.
Badger your doctor into prescribing you a prescription for antibiotics when he thinks you have a viral infection and don't need them; besides the waste of money (assuming your family has to contribute to their purchase cost), there are health detriments to needless antibiotic use.
Buy formal/fancy clothing (unless your job requires it).
Buy stocks or bonds (of any type); there is much reason to believe that stocks are going exactly nowhere for at least 15 years. Read "Gray Dawn" by Peter Peterson if you don't believe me. This includes you contributioning to a 401K, especially if your employer does not match it.
Have more than one phone line (unless your business/work requires it); believe it or not, you have no legal or moral obligation to allow children to have access to a phone. The same goes for high-speed Internet access, if it runs more than dial-up access.
Make personal long-distance calls that you get charged for instead of writing about 95% of the time; as a good rule of thumb, reserve such calls for occasions that require wearing a suit (weddings, funerals, got a good job). Also, never use a cellular phone for local calls when a regular telephone is available; I can't count the times I've observed someone chattering away about obviously non-urgent personal matters 20' from a regular (nonpay) phone that was not being used.
Conceive or adopt a child. This applies to everyone in the house.
Take on any new obligations or debts (monetary or time), whether they are your idea or someone else's.

[steve hiker]

Buy another anything that plugs into the wall, including computers, video game anything, music anything, TVs, air conditioners, refrigerators, freezers, electric snowblowers, lamps, power tools, hairdryers, curling irons, dishwashers, clothes washers/dryers, electric heaters, etc. Possible exception: food dehydrator/freeze dryer.
Try telling the woman that.

Fly instead of driving.
With the price of gas these days, flying is cheaper.

Keep any TVs in the house
You're right there. TV to the brain is like salt to a slug.


Buy restaurant meals over $7.00.
Any restaurant meal is a rip off.

Buy knicknacks such as figurines, mobiles, stuffed animals or windchimes (anything "cute" that performs nothing).
You don't have to, the woman will.

Buy potpourri, incense, perfume, air freshener, or the like.
See above.

Buy or use most cosmetics.
See above.

Voluntarily do anything involving pornography unless it is your well-paying primary job.
No comment.

Buy anything to put on the wall, or do any other arts & crafts stuff (no, your wife/daughter WON'T be able to make money on a net basis selling that kind of stuff).
You don't have to, the woman will.

Buy any kind of ornamental plant, whether live or plastic, yard or potted.
See above.

Conceive or adopt a child. This applies to everyone in the house.
Try telling Mother Nature "no" on this one. Keep your daughter flush with contraceptives.

[minnesotasmith]

As far as valueless purchases like cosmetics go, a conversation with the wife that further expenditures on them are incompatible with the family's major goals should do it. Besides, why should a married woman want to look as if she is trying to attract other males' attention in any event? I never wanted my wife to put on all that cr*p, even if it were free; when I kissed her cheek, the experience wasn't supposed to remind me of driving near a paper mill in the pre-regulatory era. Same with preventing future knicknack purchases; I'm in the "pick three" club; once you have three, you don't buy another one unless you are prepared to discard one upon arrival home (same rule applies to most garage-sale purchases IMO, as most people have if anything too much stuff). Potpourri, incense, potted plants, and such? If you routinely throw it in the trash upon sighting it (ideally in front of other family members), pretty soon it won't get bought any more by even the least-wise members of the household. I'm a big believer that as far as nonedible outside plants go, there are three types: trees, grass, and "doesn't belong on the property".

The easiest way to prevent a daughter from becoming pregnant if you don't homeschool is probably to have her not be alone with nonfamily adolescent males while she lives with you. Certainly, having a parent be at home when she arrives home from school every day is proven to help as well. Failing that, explain to her that her bearing and keeping an infant is incompatible with living in the family home or receiving financial assistance of any kind from the family. Whether the answer is abstinence, contraception, abortion, or adoption, she needs to ensure she does not bring an infant into the home. As far as one's wife goes, presumably she knows where babies come from, and would not bring another child into the family without the husband's advance OK. Her doing the latter is the moral equivalent of rape IMO, and neither is morally acceptable IMO, not at all.

Anyway, this has gone farther afield from hiking than I had intended. Certainly, it is easier to prioritize life strategies if other, less-disciplined people do not have to be considered in one's plans.

[MOWGLI]

You don't need to...

Do a whole lot of housework if there is anyone in the house over 12 who is unemployed.
Drive children to anything fun.
Have more than one phone line (unless your business/work requires it); believe it or not, you have no legal or moral obligation to allow children to have access to a phone. The same goes for high-speed Internet access, if it runs more than dial-up access.



I'll discuss this with my 14 year old tonight... he he. Seriously, cutting back and simplifying is a good idea, but is shouldn't be punitive to the other members of the household. Just because you want to hike a trail doesn't mean everyone else in the family should have to forego fun. That is an excellent way to get the family to not be supportive of your hike.

When I reached Katahdin and met my family in Millinockett later that day, my wife showed me a very nice (and expensive) ring that she had custom made. It included all the birthstones of our children. I was afraid to ask what it cost, and am not sure that I ever did. You could say she had a little leverage on me at the time.. BTW, that is very atypical of my wife. I'm glad she got the ring. She deserves it (and much more) for putting up with me.

Little Bear

[smokymtnsteve]

. As far as one's wife goes, presumably she knows where babies come from, and would not bring another child into the family without the husband's advance OK. Her doing the latter is the moral equivalent of rape IMO, and neither is morally acceptable IMO, not at all.

.

Not only should the wife know where babies come from butalso the man..

women DO NOT get pregnant w/o the males participation...the husband can also control his behavior thus preventing the possibility of another child...Birth Control is not entirely a women's responsibilty..the man has to take his part in this area also.

[steve hiker]

The easiest way to prevent a daughter from becoming pregnant if you don't homeschool is probably to have her not be alone with nonfamily adolescent males while she lives with you.
Easier said than done. Ever try to keep a cat from jumping up on a bed?

[art to linda]

Now that you have reinstated slave/child labor (at least in your home) you can look forward to saving money for your hike. Of course before too long your children will hate you but that won't matter much as your wife will have packed them up and left. This will give you an even greater chance to cut your household expenses (other then child support).
I'll be damned if I will crack the whip over my family just so that I can do something that has personal meaning only for myself!!! While some of your suggestions are intelligent budget managing tools, others are self-centered, sexist bull pucky. What makes you think that everyone in a family will put their life on hold AND deprive themselves of every little pleasure, just to facilitate a nonproductive hike of 4-5 months for one member? Also, just what do you plan on giving back to them during that hike (other than relief from your presence) to let them know how much you appreciate their sacrifices?
When I want something I'll work my butt off for it but not at the expense of those I love. They, in turn, have WILLINGLY given up "extras" in order to help me achieve dreams that they didn't understand. You want the hike, you get off your butt and work for it! When your family sees just how much YOU are willing to give up for YOURSELF to make a dream come true then they will help in every way they can.
Don't expect them to give more than you do or hold them to an unrealistic standard of self denial you have set for yourself.
Each person in a family has dreams of doing/being something special. All these dreams are important. At times these dreams coincide and everyone works together... other times they differ and the support of the family helps achieve them. I pity you if the only "dreams" in your house are your own.

[minnesotasmith]

UGH: "Ever try to keep a cat from jumping up on a bed?"

Yep. Got a method that works first time, every time, permanently. Take the little &%# to the door, and close door with cat outside of house. Tell children that if you ever see one of those things inside the house again, you will take it straightaway to the pound, even if it is someone else's cat they allowed to trespass inside the house against explicit policy. Cats in my experience are untrainable to the level of civilized behavior compatible with coming inside a dwelling used by humans (not to mention all the nonbald ones shed at unacceptable levels). IMO it's not upper-middle-class housing if it has a cat inside it. Same thing if there are pointless things such as rodents, arthropods such as spiders and scorpions, snakes, etc., intentionally kept as "pets" inside the house. Aquarium fish were made obsolescent by the invention of computer screen savers, so there's no point to them as well (unless you have a profitable bait business, in which case they, their odor, and their mess still go outside the house in a garage or outbuilding). I like dogs, but only those that require clipping can possibly belong inside a human dwelling; the rest should be outside or in the garage. Birds A) go on human shoulders in noncarpeted areas or B) in cages in uncarpeted rooms if they are inside the house; note that there is not a "C" choice there.

--------------------------------------

Smokymtnsteve: "Not only should the wife know where babies come from but also the man.. women DO NOT get pregnant w/o the males participation...the husband can also control his behavior thus preventing the possibility of another child...Birth Control is not entirely a women's responsibilty..the man has to take his part in this area also."

No argument from me. Certainly, if there were an oral contraceptive available for men, I would happily take one on a continuing basis if I married again. Given that there isn't, but that there are a plethora of options for women, marriages that are to involve coitus without continual pregnancies as a practical matter will generally require fiddling with the woman's chemistry or convenience. Forget condoms for males over 40, as half of them are having a hard enough time functioning in that area anyway without such a hindrance; Cs are pretty lousy WRT contraceptive reliability to boot. Same thing with the rhythm method; you call users of it "parents". Likewise, vasectomies are not an option if you've not had all the kids you want already. Certainly, alternative acts to coitus would do the job (at allowing sex w/o impregnation), but I expect that most people are likely to find that unacceptable as a long-term solution, just as they would consider celibacy during marriage for long periods of time while still young to be a nonstarter.

Anyway, as far as pregnancy goes (in or out of marriage), IMO it should only go to completion if BOTH partners agree. Think a bit about the logic of nonmarital-area contracts and you'll see I'm on-target here morally.

--------------------------------------------

MOWGLI16: "Seriously, cutting back and simplifying is a good idea, but is shouldn't be punitive to the other members of the household. Just because you want to hike a trail doesn't mean everyone else in the family should have to forego fun. That is an excellent way to get the family to not be supportive of your hike."

Kids have a right to be raised well and lovingly. They do not have a right to determine most of how that will be. (They don't get to decide if and when the family moves, what Dad does for a living, whether they go to a church or which one, what school they go to, etc., etc.) Think of how happy you'd have been if you could have hiked the Triple Crown with your dad before the age of 21, at the mere cost (say) while growing up of alcohol, tobacco, cable TV, and an extra bathroom. As Robert Heinlein said, "Keep your kids long on hugs and short on pocket money". Anyway, a household with debts IMO has no business engaging in frippery (like cell phones or automobiles for minor adolescents).

"When I reached Katahdin and met my family in Millinockett later that day, my wife showed me a very nice (and expensive) ring that she had custom made. It included all the birthstones of our children. I was afraid to ask what it cost, and am not sure that I ever did."

Been a h*ll of a lot cheaper for noone in the family to have a "birthstone". I like a "Hagar the Horrible" comic I saw one time; some door-to-door sleazy salesman asked him his wife's birthstone, and he laconically replied "Granite". That whole concept is a made-up crock for rationalizing otherwise indefensible purchases. (Buy your wife some gold or silver bullion instead; at least it probably won't be a money toilet.) I take it your house and all cars were completely paid off before making such a financially disastrous purchase? (FYI: there are plenty of ways to show a spouse that you love them without spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on nothing.)

"You could say she had a little leverage on me at the time.. BTW, that is very atypical of my wife. I'm glad she got the ring. She deserves it (and much more) for putting up with me."

See previous paragraph. You of course are encouraging her in her (nonhobby/nonsilly/nonfinancially disastrous) secondary pursuits as well, I hope? Also, given the weight loss many thru-hikers (especially males) have post-Katahdin, a thru-hike can be more effective WRT its health effects and cheaper than liposuction or the like. That means that a thru-hike is more defensible than seeing the Louvre or St. Peter's again. Plus, it's always best if a project like thru-hiking the AT gets discussed with a spouse before they agree to marry you, presuming you knew you wanted to do it before the marriage. (That way, they mostly can't legitimately whine later when you actually get set up to do it.) In my experience, I've found that mostly only the prospective wives that would consider going along with you on an entire thru-hike are fully supportive of the idea. (I've wanted to do a thru-hike for over 20 years, so have discussed the idea with multiple girlfriends over the years with whom I started to get serious.) The rest simply have varying levels of tolerance for the concept; don't be surprised if your wife ends up being that way when it looks like you might actually go try to do this thing.

[smokymtnsteve]

Forget condoms for males over 40, as half of them are having a hard enough time functioning in that area anyway without such a hindrance; Cs are pretty lousy WRT contraceptive reliability to boot.


Speak for yourself,,,I have no problems



..and condoms when used correctly are VERY reliable

[minnesotasmith]

From http://dianedew.com/condom.htm

"According to an article by the Alan Guttmacher Institute, published in Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives May/June 1989, condoms have an 11.4 to 22.3 percent failure rate among teens. Studies of five brands of condoms, reported in the British Journal of Medicine July 11, 1987, showed a failure rate of 26 percent due to rupture and slippage alone. And the New England Journal of Medicine Mar. 23, 1989 showed condoms have a failure rate of 10 to 33 percent for preventing pregnancies in women 25 years and younger."

Not a "Plan A", I'd say.
-------------------------------------------
Art to linda:

As far as my kids "hating" me, if they didn't learn how to DO anything before they left my house, they'd have more reason for that than if they had daily chores. Anyway, I don't propose to make kids do any more work around the house in terms of time than our parents did growing up. Go talk to anyone over 60 who grew up on a farm and ask them what their daily chore list was like; I promise you'll find it most illuminating.

P.S. re child support...

C.S. is traditionally something that a father has a duty to provide to children residing in his household. If the children are taken out of there against his will and without traditional substantive legal grounds (infidelity, being beaten or sexually abused, illegal drug use, etc.), he has been prevented from rendering it by other people's actions. Few men can support two households, so when a marriage ends, the man's income can be expected to stay with him. No man can be expected to go homeless or give his food money to support some other household from which he is barred. For most of American history, the kids went with the father in the event of divorce for exactly these fundamental reasons of human nature and economics; the current regime is a recent experiment.

[art to linda]

Well, I'm close to 60 (unless you want to quibble over a couple of years with a Lady and her age) so I think I can add a thought or two there. I have also owned a working farm so I may even have a bit of knowledge about that. Having raised two boys up to be intelligent adults and a teenage daughter well on her way I may even know something about child raising....but I'm always willing to be "illuminated".

Since you are so fond of statistics, look up the percentage of failure rate on condoms contributed to "user error"....that is illuminating. Also one of the rules for the use of statistical data is not to use statistics over five years old. Due to social, economic and technological advances such statistical data may no longer be reliable and/or misleading.

As to child support.... In the 1800s woman were mostly considered property, first of their father then their husband. In the case of a divorce the father took the children as they were also considered his property. Education and good jobs(for which woman were not usually paid) were only available to a very small percentage of woman with enlightened males in their lives and/or a wealthy, understanding family. By the early 1900s things had changed, woman could vote now, but it was still no bed of roses. WWII let woman enter the job force in positions only men had held before. To do these jobs woman had to be educated/trained, but they were not paid what men were; after all they were only woman, not "the bread winner" of the family. In the case of a divorce the man usually got the children, if he wanted them, but in most cases divorce was socially frowned upon so a man could use it as a threat. Many a woman stayed in an unhappy, distressful marriage. This was because they knew even with an education there were few jobs out there that would pay them enough to enable them to support their children. It is now 2004 WAHOO!!! Woman and children are no longer, under law, considered property in this country. Woman have the right to be paid the same as a man for a job and visa versa. Both parents have to provide for their children no matter which one they live with. That is the law......the law aside, consider this. A child is a temporary gift given to you by whatever God you believe in. Providing love, food, shelter, guidance and education so that child can grow into the best person it can be (not what you want that child to be but what that child wants to be) shows respect to God for that gift he entrusted to your care. I do believe that one day there will be a reckoning and we will be held accountable for all our gifts be it a child or this world.

Since this has gone way off the topic of hiking I wish to apologies to the rest of you for this lengthy post. Sometimes this "old" Lady gets her knickers in a twist (and panties in a bind) so she just has to speak her piece.
;)

[ffstenger]

I,m 47. I can retire in 10 years, and thank God I am able to handle the financial part of an extended hike with no problem. I have a wife(total non-hiker) and 2 kids, the youngest is 10. Until the time is right for work and kids at home I go on section hikes of the A.T. EVERY year. I only have a week, I hike 50 to 80 miles, and I enjoy not having to be rushed or on a strict schedule. so I can stop and enjoy all the wonderful things I find along the way... When I retire and the kids are older I'm planning a thru-hike, and if I'm lucky one or both of the kids will go along !!!
Showme

[smokymtnsteve]

OH never mind...some folks will never learn

[minnesotasmith]

"WAHOO"?? Half of kids are growing up without their fathers in their house, a situation negatively unique among major Western nations. As practically every poor life outcome for children is closely associated with de facto fatherlessness while growing up, this is a change for the worse of extreme significance. As no nation has ever long survived collapse of its families (think Poland if the Nazis had never been expelled from it for what I mean as "nonsurvival"), there is something going on that far, far transcends in importance whether some causelessly-unhappy restless women get to be considered equal in "rights" to men without having to take on the same responsibilities in life men have (being 50% of coal miners/roofers/asphalt pourers/oil refinery blue-collar workers/military casualties as mass draftees in wartime even if they have small children, etc.)

Ending a behavior generally is understood to involve removing the motivation to engage in it. As women file for over 80% of divorces in marriages involving minor children (over 90% of the time without having demonstrated traditional legal, or "real" grounds for doing so; usually it's some version of "I'm bored/my needs aren't getting met"), it is primarily women's behavior that thus needs addressing. If welfare/child support/marital property share receipt were made unavailable for mothers choosing to bear illegitimate children and/or file for divorce without having proven real grounds for doing so, that would go a long way towards discouraging mothers inflicting avoidable fatherlessness upon children, a nearly unforgivable act IMO. Of course, restoring social shaming appropriate for such a moral crime (at least to that attendant to smoking in nonsmoking areas, preferably extending to housing, employment, and voting), giving custody automatically to the nonfiling parent (unless provably and proven unfit under pre-1960s legal criteria, a rare occurrence), and/or automatic adoption out for illegitimate children at birth to traditionally married couples would be desirable and useful as well, and I favor these changes, too.
--------------------------------------------
Back to the hiking question...

I think that Chris Townsend *put it well, when he replied to the question about how he managed to get to go on so many great hikes to such lovely, wondrous locales (The three "Triple Crown" trails, Scandinavia, the Alps, Alaska, etc.). He said that he organized his life in such a way as to make it possible. Certainly, a married couple doing that would be providing an intriguing and enriching childhood for any children they might mutually choose to have. I am put in mind of that married couple that in 2002 thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail with their 6-YO son and 8-YO daughter; what an infinitely more enriching upbringing they are offering their fortunate children over their (unfortunately infinitely more common) age peers who are abandoned by (both working outside the house full-time) parents to a latchkey life with rap-listening, TV-obsessed, lower-class-attuned, anti-intellectual, anti-achievement public school classmates as their primary de facto guides to life while growing up? While my personal upbringing was among the better ones, I would have loved to have gone on major hiking trails all over the country before I even reached driving age. Oh, that would have been nice!

What was it Shakespeare said in Macbeth?

http://the-tech.mit.edu/Shakespeare/macbeth/macbeth.5.5.html

"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Arguably, much of what transpires in the world outside the quiet places (such as our beloved AT) fits his description. If I can make the books I am writing succeed commercially, I hope and intend to spend at least half my time for several years hiking glorious places that pictures and second-hand descriptions appear to not do justice to. After the AT, I want to hike across Alaska both ways; along the length of the entire Trans-Alaska pipeline from Valdez to Prudhoe, and from Kotzebue to Canada along the south side of the Brooks Mountain Range. (That might be worth trying to write a book about, too.) After all that? I'll think of something; I've always thought Finland and New Zealand [NZ = where the movie "Lord of the Rings" was filmed] were places I want to see, and to not be rushed through when I'm there...

*Townsend is the author of "The Advanced Backpacker: A Handbook of Year Round, Long-Distance Hiking (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071357564/qid=1090802796/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-1818780-6371001?v=glance&s=books)".

[Footslogger]

Much easier said now than when I was trying to find the answer to the same question. But the bottom line is that if you want it bad enough, you'll find a way. And, if doing it section by section is the only way you can make it happen then go for it.

Drive a spike in the ground. Tell youself and others (that makes it official) that you're gonna hike the AT in "XX" years and then make it happen. Energy tends to flow in the direction of thought. Get your affairs in order, or at least as "in-order" as possible and then start walking.

Sure, it feels a bit careless and even reckless to walk away from what may be a good paying job but if a thru-hike is truly what you want then at some point it has to take priority over all that money and security. You'll be amazed at how different you'll feel about it once you're actually out there on the trail. It's like a mental enema !!

I know ...I did it !!

'Slogger
AT 2003

[minnesotasmith]

I've told my whole family (parents and sibling) that I'm hitting the AT for a thru-hike attempt at the beginning of 2006. I haven't yet told them that I'm contemplating a yo-yo, though; the idea of one thru-hike was something that it took them long enough to get used to.:rolleyes: Once I have 1) enough money saved that bills and living won't be an issue, and 2) I'm far enough along with a NOBO thru-hike that it looks like I'll make it (say, in the Whites), I might mention it to them then...

Closest female friend, who would love to go with me however many times I thru-hike, is not a problem; her grandfather was involved in building the AT, and she's probably dreamed of thru-hiking it if anything longer than I have. Anyway, I know how most people who promise to come along on a thru- never show, so I'm acceptant of heading off alone in any event. (Starting off in January would give me LOTS of alone time until about VA, I figure.)

[JP]

I havent yet. Ive wanted to thru-hike since I did a section in 72. Iam putting it off till I retire. Its still a dream. My latest plan is to section hike the AT with my just out of the Marines son. I prefer solo, but my wife will feel beter about it if he is along for the ride. And I like hikeing with him, even though he can walk me into the ground. And I outrank him so I can tell him to be quiet when I dont want to talk, and he usually listens.

[minnesotasmith]

Interesting to hear of you and your plans. How old are you and your son?