View Full Version : advice needed
Hi. My husband and I are new to hiking/backpacking (new to this site too). We have done a couple of day-hikes and are trying to plan and over-night weekend hike. We have been getting gear and reading up on the subject.
My questions are:
1). What is wrong with cotton? I read all the time about no cotton socks etc, but no explanations of why. What about other items of cotton (t-shirts, shorts etc)?
2). Deodorant, soaps etc. Some of the things that I have read sounded like one should not wear deodorant, or use soaps, but then others that I have read sound just the opposite. I do not have a problem "reeking" in the woods, just wanting to know is deodorant and soap a "no-no"
Thanks in advance for any help. I have been reading this site for a couple of days and the responses have all been great!
Dad, I'm cold
08-29-2009, 14:20
Cotton get's wet and stays wet- It's very hard to dry out.
Deodorant and soap is pointless.
Midway Sam
08-29-2009, 14:22
1. You will often hear or read the phrase "cotton kills". This is because cotton absorbs water. Once wet it is no longer a good insulator and gets real heavy. Instead, stick with synthetics like nylon or polyesther blends.
2. Stay away from any perfumed items like most deoderants and handsoaps. Dr. Bronners is a popular choice and it a great soap because it works well for the body as well as for the dishes. Some people swear that you can brush your teeth with the peppermint Dr. Bronners, but I tried it once. Blech!!! Tasted like lye soap with a hint of peppermint.
Big Dawg
08-29-2009, 14:24
cotton holds on to water/sweat. use synthetic, like polypropolene, which wicks away sweat from ur body & dries quickly.
deo/soaps usually have fragrances which will attracts bugs. go without, be a stinky.
oh, & welcome to WB!
Dad, I'm cold
08-29-2009, 14:26
Take a little bottle of hand sanitizer if you're worried about germs.
Pacific Tortuga
08-29-2009, 14:28
Deodorant and soap is pointless.[/quote]
Some "expert's" say they attract bears. I wouldn't worry in FLA. Take a pack of baby whipe's, if you feel it's important.
Pacific Tortuga
08-29-2009, 14:28
and :welcome
Feral Bill
08-29-2009, 14:38
Wet wool socks are like sandpaper on your feet. Wool socks from Costco are cheap and effective. Some like synthetic socks, as well.
modiyooch
08-29-2009, 14:53
not only does cotton stay wet and is heavy, it then will make you cold if the temperature drops.
wet feet would be detrimental.
i think soap is good; but no need for deodorant. I carry my facial soap and can use it for any other soap needs. I also carry the sanitizer mainly for bathroom breaks and to clean my hands before eating.
What is wrong with cotton?I won't repeat why, as others have done a good job of that. This means that blue jeans are out. Someone wearing blue jeans on the trail is a dead give-away of someone who hasn't a clue what they're doing.
Whether you shop REI sales or Wal-Mart specials, synthetic pants, shorts, and Ts are the way to go.
Soap residue finds its way into the water table and is a biological killer. Deodorant is useless after a day of sweating without a shower. I'm blessed with a poor sense of smell. I don't smell me or anyone else, at least not to the point that it's offensive. You'll get used to it.
Blue Jay
08-29-2009, 15:48
Soap residue finds its way into the water table and is a biological killer. Deodorant is useless after a day of sweating without a shower.
Very good answer. I've always felt deodorant on the trail is like building a wall of sand and expecting it to hold back ocean tides. Good luck with that.
Jonnycat
08-29-2009, 15:50
I use deodorant when I'm backpacking, I also take a spongebath with a tiny amount of campsuds if I don't have the opportunity to go swimming. I also brush and floss, and use mouthwash at the same intervals as I do here at home.
Just because I'm backpacking doesn't mean there is no room for personal hygiene.
Deodorants and other perfumes can also clog the pores...limiting what good old fashion sweat does (cooling you off, naturally getting rid of toxins from your body, etc.)
Sponge off with a bananda or similar. It is almost as effective until you can get a real bath in town. If you want "real" cleaning take Dr. Bonners or even just old fashion Ivory Soap. (Be sure to be WELL away from the water source).
For basic hand sanitation, alchy gel (Purrel or similar) is great before dinner and after #2.
Cotton..I really can't add to omuch (except cold and wet cotton actually takes away body heat!)
My standard boiler plate for affordable gear/clothing from http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php/Backpacking-and-Hiking-documents/Backpacking-A-Beginners-Primer.html
Quality Gear on the Cheap: If you read those glossy outdoor magazines, you'd think you need a $300 pack, a $300 shell and a $300 fleece. You do not need expensive gear to enjoy backpacking. Often the brand name gear, besides being expensive, is heavy, bulky and overkill for what is supposed to be for the simple joy of walking.
Though written for the Appalachian Trail, the general concepts apply for quality gear on the cheap:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#post206678
Some additional information I will add is that you should invest in a decent sleeping bag. The Campmor down bag is rated to 20F and is known as a good budget bag.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=86896&memberId=12500226
If you are looking for a light, compressible and warm jacket check out an army liner jacket (mentioned in the above article, but deserves to be emphasized) : http://tinyurl.com/2dfgpk
(http://tinyurl.com/2dfgpk)
If you don't mind a bit of sewing, you can make a Montbell Thermwrap clone for less than $20 with the above liner jacket. A men's large comes in at 12oz! Considering a Montbell Thermawrap is $150 and weights 10oz, the cheap way is nice for those on a budget on who need something warm, light and cheap!
Check it out: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41034
(http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41034)
Needlong underwear, hats, socks, hats, mittens, etc? Check out Warm Stuff Distributing (formerly known as the Underwear Guys.) Run by Fiddlehead here on WB.
http://www.theunderwearguys.com (http://www.theunderwearguys.com/) All the basics at excellent prices. The items tend to be off-brand, surplus and/or factory irregulars. However, I personally think the off-brand, surplus or irregular is as good (and sometimes better than) the Patagucci clothing. Sometimes warmer, sometimes lighter weight... always cheaper!
Finally, for high altitude/desert hiking I suggest a long sleeve synthetic shirt for the princely sum of $4 from many thrift stores. (Old uniform shirts, acrylic shirts from Blair, rayon blends, heck,,.even the 65/35 blends are fine!) I've used this type of shirt for literally several thousand miles of backpacking.
The shirt has a handy front pocket that I can stick a map in, too!
Blissful
08-29-2009, 19:17
Wow you can't get any more comprehensive than Mags. :)
I don't like deo and soap because the bugs love it. My perfume in the woods is DEET. And I don't want to carry the weight either. :)
And if you are here in the south and wear cotton in this humid, hot weather you'll find out soon why you dont wear it. It stays wet forever and ever. amen.
i don't think anyone's mentioned that you'll get a lot more blisters from cotton socks than wool, since they mat down and you lose some of that cushioning effect.
i would disagree that wet wool socks are like sandpaper... perhaps it was a typo... i love my wool socks because they are warm and soft no matter whether wet or dry, hot or cold... (Wigwam Everlast)
thanks for all the responses and internet links. they were a big help.
My husband and I cant wait to get back into the woods. (and by the way, it WON'T be in FL. FL is boring, flat and too hot!) We have been driving to NC, GA and TN to enjoy the mountains.
thanks again everybody!
Feral Bill
08-30-2009, 14:11
i don't think anyone's mentioned that you'll get a lot more blisters from cotton socks than wool, since they mat down and you lose some of that cushioning effect.
i would disagree that wet wool socks are like sandpaper... perhaps it was a typo... i love my wool socks because they are warm and soft no matter whether wet or dry, hot or cold... (Wigwam Everlast)
An embarassing stupid typo.:eek: Of course I meant cotton socks. Wool for me every day.
Feral Bill
08-30-2009, 14:13
In defense of cotton, an old cotton dress shirt can be very comfortable in hot dry weather.
i don't think anyone's mentioned that you'll get a lot more blisters from cotton socks than wool, since they mat down and you lose some of that cushioning effect.
i would disagree that wet wool socks are like sandpaper... perhaps it was a typo... i love my wool socks because they are warm and soft no matter whether wet or dry, hot or cold... (Wigwam Everlast)
I agree! I own TWO pair of cotton socks, worn to cut the grass only, I don't know why I prefer to cut the grass in them, I just do. The rest of the time I wear wool socks, Period!
Likely the "Sandpaper" effect is because wet skin is softer (& more easily abraided etc) than dry(ish) skin. So IMHO socks that dry quicker, like wool, are better than cotton. I don't wear synthetcis because they make my feet WAY too hot, & so my feet are always wet due to sweatting.
[QUOTE=Seeker;886333]i don't think anyone's mentioned that you'll get a lot more blisters from cotton socks than wool, since they mat down and you lose some of that cushioning effect.
Having cotton socks mat down and providing less cushion when wet as compared to when they are dry can, perhaps, contibute to more blisters but this can happen with merino wool socks too. A far more significant reason that a hiker wearing cotton socks is more prone to blisters, when ALL other things are equal, is that sweaty feet stay sweaty or wet longer with cotton socks. The merino wool dries quicker and wics better. The merino wool socks will also provide more insulation(warmth) when wet as compared to wet cotton socks, which provide little to no warmth when wet; this may be important when hiking in colder weather. Long duration sweaty or wet feet open the door for hot spots and blisters to form as well as contribute to macerated(prune like overly hydrated skin) skin that can crack and split.
I agree! I own TWO pair of cotton socks, worn to cut the grass only, I don't know why I prefer to cut the grass in them, I just do. The rest of the time I wear wool socks, Period!
Wearing the cotton socks to mow the lawn may seem fine for you. That's because you have matched your gear to your activity. Mowing the grass for up to two hrs. is very different than hiking for 12, 14 , or 16 hr days with a pack on over uneven terrain. Feet are going to sweat a lot more for a longer period under trail conditions.
I have heard of folks wearing cotton under those hot dry conditions you mention Feral Bill. My thought is that the weather may be that way but I wonder how long my body will stay that way while hiking. If it's hot and I'm hiking I'm going to eventually sweat. Meaning, my clothing is eventually going to get wet which takes us to dealing with all the disadvantages of wearing wet cotton. On a quick day hike where the car is awaiting me at the end of the hike, maybe it's OK. Instead I much prefer to wear various weights of merino wool shirts on most of my hikes. I really like that merino wool provides me with the greatest level of comfort in the widest range of hiking conditions. I will aslo employ a polyester shirt occassionally. The polyester is a recyled material, is, or should be, relatively inexpensive, and breathes and wics well. The polyester doesn't seem to have anywhere near the insulating value when wet or comfort value though as merino wool. Polyester is a reasonable substitute on desert hikes though or to be used in a layering system.
If the OP is interested in rather inexpensive polyester Tee shirts Walmart has Starter brand tees for $5.
I would If the OP Likely the "Sandpaper" effect is because wet skin is softer (& more easily abraided etc) than dry(ish) skin. So IMHO socks that dry quicker, like wool, are better than cotton. I don't wear synthetcis because they make my feet WAY too hot, & so my feet are always
Feral Bill
08-30-2009, 20:27
In the dry summer climate around here, cotton dries quite quickly. It protects you from sun and bugs. I always have wool or synthetics for if conditions change.
The Weasel
08-30-2009, 20:40
Two more things about cotton and perfumes/deodorants:
Cotton's major risk is not only that it gets wet and is difficult to dry (and also the problems with cotton socks that are already mentioned) but that when wet cotton is exposed to wind it can rapidly cause skin temperature to plummet, and by staying wet (in the wind, especially), it keeps chilling the skin. This leads to hypothermia, usually considered to be a "below freezing" problem. But people die from hypothermia in what otherwise are considered to be "warm" temperatures. Often, they were wearing wet cotton clothing. Keep in mind that this includes blue jeans.
As for perfumes and deodorants, they usually contain scents that attract animals (and not just the adult male human kind), including bears. That's one of the reasons why they go into bear vaults/containers in bear country, and why they shouldn't be worn along the trail.
TW
I know this is a bit off topic, but has anyone tried the newer composite shirts made of merino wool and polyester/rayon? I was wondering about anyone's experiences with these shirts?
Montana AT05
08-30-2009, 21:08
If you're doing a weekend camping trip, you can take deodorant. I don't believe that stuff about bears being attracted to it. Hell, bears are attracted to anything that smells like it might mean food. That includes Patchouli, for all you hippies out there.
People who say don't take deodorant are likely speaking from a weeks, to months long trip perspective, where smelling good ain't gunna happen no matter how much you deodorant you use--and yes, it eventually clogs up your shirts and pores, and it will melt in hot weather.
But for a weekend trip? Bring it if you want.
Synthetic clothes, like capilene by Patagonia, are better than cotton, but beware, they trap smells--and they will reek even after a few days.
Merino wool doesn't stink. But some folks prefer the feel of synthetic on their bodies. I do at times too.
The Weasel
08-30-2009, 21:41
Montana is wrong about perfumes and bears. If you're in an area that is known to contain bears, or, in the west, cougars/mountain lions, the bears/lions aren't out there for a weekend. They live there, and they are attracted to perfume scents, and that includes even unscented deodorants. Where I am, day hikers and weekenders have run-ins with both, and a woman day hiker was killed only a couple of years ago literally in a suburban "wilderness" park by a cougar. I'm also aware of brown bear campsite invasions, and deodorants are one attractant. Leave behind all the other "I want to smell nice" things, too. Even in areas without bears, they can draw raccoons, opossums, skunks and other foragers, who bring the risk of serious bites which can be rabid.
If you doubt me, one of my favorite backcountry memories is seeing one of my Scouts, who had just finished washing up and using his "clear gel Right Guard", sitting terrified inside his tent looking at the two racoons about 3 feet away hissing and screeching as they fought to steal the Right Guard he'd left out.
So let Montana bring it, but camp a little ways away. That way, the bears won't still be hungry for you.
TW
SunnyWalker
08-31-2009, 19:32
I have hiked alot on the PCT, Mtn climbed in the Pacfic NW as well as hiked there, camped in Yellowstone, bicycled from TX to Florence, Oregon, section hiked on AT -and in all these years I have never had a bear come to my camp. I have used soap all the time. I have seen bears except when driving through Yellowstone in a car!