View Full Version : Montbell #2 SS UL for a thru hike
or section hikes on the AT.
Is there anybody here that has done a thruhike with a MB #2 SS UL from early spring thru the summer ??
I have slept under the #2 at room temps and with it draped and venting I think it would be tolerable in summer.
I am considering it, but thinking about starting in feb or march, south to north. I like cold weather hiking.
The rest of my shelter/sleep/clothing setup is spitfire tent, tyvek bivy golite salsa synthetic or my old snowlion polarguard jacket (very warm) merino base, thru hiker vest, BPL outer insul pants, balaclava, med wt wool pants, med wt wool shirt, gloves, down sleeping booties etc etc.
I do have an older snowlion 4# down bag rated at -40dF which is an overkill, but very warm. If I started earlier, I would consider swapping out later on for the #2.
Thanks in advance.
My educated guess would be that you will be ok. It isn't the ideal gear for that early. Probably pushing it for Feb. and may be cold in the Smokies, but it seems you have other gear to help out. You'll love the down booties when pushing your bag like that. Make sure you take adequate (extra) ground insulation.
You're right about the -40 bag being overkill, unless you just intend to sleep next to it. :D
Forgot that.
Neoair regular on top of a full length blue foam pad.
Forgot that.
Neoair regular on top of a full length blue foam pad.
Sounds good.
I did 9 weeks on the AT this year with one of these (the down 800 fill). Started 3/20 and it was fine. maybe 1 or 2 nights were it would have been nice to have a little extra but not really. It was just enough for me without anything extra.
Blissful
09-01-2009, 21:22
Boy I think you are taking a chance on a #2 in Feb / early March for a thru. I mean my son took a cats meow 20 degree and had a liner also. It can get down to single digits. #1 would be better.
Cool AT Breeze
09-01-2009, 21:35
A 20 deg Cats Meow is only good to about 35 deg. You will be alive but pissed off.
A 20 deg Cats Meow is only good to about 35 deg. You will be alive but pissed off.
I second that opinion
I know a MB #2 is good for me for a solid 25dF in just silk johns and socks.
I could also whip up a super light small climasheild quilt to use on top or as a liner.
I was going to make one of those anyway. That and a bivy should get me down to 10-15dF and I will be sleeping inside a tent.
Besides that I will have, bottom wear....
Merino johns
Whipcord Wool pants
BPL insulated pants or the like
Driducks bottoms
Top wear....
Merino top
Wool shirt
Synthetic vest
golite salsa (a bit thin or a snowlion polarguard jacket. This jacket is thick and is actually more of a parka, with a drawstring waste, snap on hood but I dont have that. Like a moron in the late 70's I did not buy the hood. At any rate very very warm, but weighs 2#.)
driducks top
foot/handwear
med merino socks
heavy wool socks
down booties
Also tyvek over mitts and booties
Gees thats so much stuff it might take it another 40 degrees or so if I can move around in it.
I did some hiking with my -40dF snowlion in the early 80's on the AT in January. I really used it more out west, but on that trip it was very very warm. No complaints there, but I had a lot of problems with condensation. Probably more my tent than the bag, and the bag was really too warm for the conditions anyway. Conditions were 10dF and humid, foggy, sleet etc.
It is one of those bags you will wake up buring up sooner or later if its not super cold.
No DWR on that bag either, but I guess I could spray it.
I probably should trade it for a zero bag, although they weigh almost 4# too.
Here's a Montbell SS Down Hugger #0 on sale.
http://www.gearzone.com/Montbell-Super-Stretch-Down-Hugger-0-Sleeping-Bag-p/165-19035.htm
3lb 6 oz, only $295 and free shipping.
Thanks for the link.
I looked real hard at the 0 and the 1 UL.
I had a #3 at one time, but wanted a collar.
I got the #2 UL because it was 31oz and I figured it would be more versitile to carry me through the summer, have a real rating of 25dF, and a minimum of 5dF.
I thinka MB 0 would be too hot for summer. Maybe I will pick one up later or if I can sell my snowlion.
Also intended to use the #2 with an over quilt in a bivy, and may still do that.
I originally intended to take off on the AT in April so a #2 should be fine for that, but now I think I would like to start earlier so....
That link is the 650 fill bag and there is nothing wrong with that except I need a long and the long 0 weighs 3#12oz and the snowlion bag I have weighs 4oz more.
The 0 UL weighs about 3#1oz which is better.
The MB ratings are consevative, IE the 0 minimum is somthing like -20, so I wonder how far off that really is from my snowlion. It has lost some loft in the leg area and needs a bath. One thing for sure, I seems the montbell bags breath a lot better than some of the older bags.
That link is the 650 fill bag and there is nothing wrong with that except I need a long and the long 0 weighs 3#12oz and the snowlion bag I have weighs 4oz more.
The 0 UL weighs about 3#1oz which is better.
Good catch. Guess I didn't even realize they had regular and UL. That explains why the low price and what I thought was kinda a heavy bag.
Have Fun. With all you've said, I bet your fine. Seems like you have thought this through pretty good.
TAM,
I have your exact bag, and IMO, you will be fine with all that extra clothing you are taking to begin your hike. I am slim 6' 170# guy, so I have a lot of room for layering in the bag. I have slept in it at 10 degrees for two nights with a light down coat and vest draped over the top of me in the bag, hat, fresh wool socks, silk base layer, nice and toasty. If you are large burly guy, lot less room for insulation, maybe a little sketchy on the coldest nights. You have all winter to test it out, not sure where u live, but IMO, that is best way to figure that out, practice. For me, the bag is conservatively rated, and I bet I could get to 0 with it and appropriate layering. Huge difference in the #2 from the #3, warmth wise.
High end, anything over about 60 degress in quilt mode is a little warm for me. If its' really warm, i just sleep in my silks on the BA air core, or on top of the bag. Unless you already own a warm weather bag, I say plan on taking it the whole way, packs very small, cold weather insurance. Send your heavy bulky clothes home when the weather for sure warms up. Good luck.
Just one caveat, not necessarily directed to OP. When pushing a bag like is being discussed here, and counting on your clothing layers to keep you warm for expected temps, you are removing a margin of safety for those extra cold, unexpected nights. If you use a bag that is rated for the expected temps, then you have that extra insulation still available for the unexpected.
Not arguing for or against pushing a bag's limits, just pointing out another thing to consider.
It has a minimum rating of 5dF, so I expecct with the clothing and a light quilt topper or liner, that should get me down to a solid comfort rating 0-5dF.
Thanks
TAM,
I have your exact bag, and IMO, you will be fine with all that extra clothing you are taking to begin your hike. I am slim 6' 170# guy, so I have a lot of room for layering in the bag. I have slept in it at 10 degrees for two nights with a light down coat and vest draped over the top of me in the bag, hat, fresh wool socks, silk base layer, nice and toasty. If you are large burly guy, lot less room for insulation, maybe a little sketchy on the coldest nights. You have all winter to test it out, not sure where u live, but IMO, that is best way to figure that out, practice. For me, the bag is conservatively rated, and I bet I could get to 0 with it and appropriate layering. Huge difference in the #2 from the #3, warmth wise.
High end, anything over about 60 degress in quilt mode is a little warm for me. If its' really warm, i just sleep in my silks on the BA air core, or on top of the bag. Unless you already own a warm weather bag, I say plan on taking it the whole way, packs very small, cold weather insurance. Send your heavy bulky clothes home when the weather for sure warms up. Good luck.
Good point. In the past I have had several bags, 35d, -15, -40. When I was hiking years ago, I always took what I needed to sleep and relied on my clothing just for that.
In a worst case scenario, with a setup like I am considering you could get your self into trouble.
Let say you have a problem, its been a 45-50 degree day, you slip and fall into a water crossing or your clothing gets soaked from wind driven rain and its an hour before sundown. Luckily you were smart enough to double bag your sleeping bag and use a pack liner so the contents are mostly okay.
A freak cold front just came through and the tempuratures are going to hit minus 5 that night and you only have a 25dF bag and wet cloths.
With a scenario like that you would be in trouble if you have only one set of cloths to rely on your clothing for extra insul.
Options would be to put on an extra set of johns if you have them, and your rain suit, dry socks, and hopefully build a fire and dry everything out, if you can find enough wood and hav etime.
My layers and outerwear will be all synthetic and wool so that would work. If the fire failed you would be somewhat screwed.
If your survival skills are good, and you have the time, wood and debris, IE like not above the treeline, you could build a debris shelter, or better yet, if your tent is stong enough pile a couple of feet of leaves and whatnot on top of that for extra insulation
Years ago, I got caught with a buddy in Estes park in the early summer one time at about 12,000 feet in a freak summer storm where the temps went from 60dF to 30dF in about 15 minutes and we got soaked. We were both wearing ponchos with day packs and the wind driven rain soaked us to the core. Not much fun. Hypothermic for hours. Luckily my bag was dry and we had a lot of food.
I prefer rain suits now for horizontal rain !
Jut one caveat, not necessarily directed to OP. When pushing a bag like is being discussed here, and counting on your clothing layers to keep you warm for expected temps, you are removing a margin of safety for those extra cold, unexpected nights. If you use a bag that is rated for the expected temps, then you have that extra insulation still available for the unexpected.
Not arguing for or against pushing a bag's limits, just pointing out another thing to consider.
David@whiteblaze
09-02-2009, 11:41
if he just cot soaked from a freak storm, which colder temps usually follow reulting in a 5 * night, then how would he find dry firewood? Unless there's a random hermit around, or some freakishly frienly rabbits that saved firewood for you, then yeah, expect to wake up REALLY toasty... unless ur saved... in either meaning of the word.
Blissful
09-02-2009, 12:08
A 20 deg Cats Meow is only good to about 35 deg. You will be alive but pissed off.
My son did fine with it on our hike. He did use a liner a few times andlong johns of course. We were in the teens a couple times. And he was happy. It was a new bag too.
You can build a fire with wet wood without having to rely on hermits, hobbits, or rabbits, especially if you have a starter.
Once you get it burning its no big deal.
I have done it many times, but not easy when it is really wet.
If a freak storm came through and had not soaked the wood to the core, not that bad. If totally soaked then that is more challenging.
I used to cook on fires 100% in the 70's and 80's and had several trips to the AT where is was just soggy for days.
In general was agreeing with the poster above, that you can get into trouble if you depend on your only set of clothing for part of your sleeping system.
if he just cot soaked from a freak storm, which colder temps usually follow reulting in a 5 * night, then how would he find dry firewood? Unless there's a random hermit around, or some freakishly frienly rabbits that saved firewood for you, then yeah, expect to wake up REALLY toasty... unless ur saved... in either meaning of the word.
Everybody varies.
I am personally a pretty warm sleeper.
Had a friend that could climb into a 0dF down bag in 32dF weather and still freeze.
LIhikers
09-02-2009, 20:53
I've been comfortable in my #2 Montbell UL, SS down to 13 degrees F without a lot of extra clothing.
WM,FF...are the boy on the block,not even close is mb.Just look at the underfill problem sent to the US.You will NEVER see this from them.:)
WM,FF...are the boy on the block,not even close is mb.Just look at the underfill problem sent to the US.You will NEVER see this from them.:)
I have to disagree. I have this bag and have slept in it with Micro Weight Smartwool t-shirt and undies down to 25 deg and was fine. Have also slept in in what I think was about 10 degrees (maybe less) during a snowstorm with all my gear on. I was warm enough, a friend next to me with a zero degree bag (not sure which brand) and all his clothes on was rather cold!
I have heard people say the MB bags can be underfilled, can't say I've seeen it myself.
I have to disagree. I have this bag and have slept in it with Micro Weight Smartwool t-shirt and undies down to 25 deg and was fine. Have also slept in in what I think was about 10 degrees (maybe less) during a snowstorm with all my gear on. I was warm enough, a friend next to me with a zero degree bag (not sure which brand) and all his clothes on was rather cold!
I have heard people say the MB bags can be underfilled, can't say I've seeen it myself.
I understand you are happy.:)But WHY $ spent TOP DOLLAR on bad reports on underfill ....when you can buy a REAL BAG.:-?
I have had several montbell bags and they have all performed just fine.
You can have a problems with any manuf item.
I will see my WM bags in 20yr still going...like FF. Can mb say that for the price they charge?
We get it, you don't like Montbell. I like mine. I like my WM too.
You are just trying to start an argument about something that really does not matter and has absolutely nothing to do with my original question. You sound branded. Bet you have never even owned a montbell bag ??
Nothing wrong with WM bags, but Just speculation on your part on how long they will last, because you will never know until your sleeping bag actually lasts for 20 years !
I have 2 snowlion bags that are about 25 years old and now I can say a snowlion bag will last that long because I have experienced it.
They will probably last another 20, but they are better quality than anything currently being made, although slightly heavier.
We get it, you don't like Montbell. I like mine. I like my WM too.
Funny thing is i only seen 1 mb in cherry cond .....and i seen over priced JUNK.
mister krabs
09-03-2009, 06:21
Funny thing is i only seen 1 mb in cherry cond .....and i seen over priced JUNK.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ROFLOL! :banana:banana:banana:banana
Not Sunshine
09-03-2009, 07:34
My son did fine with it on our hike. He did use a liner a few times andlong johns of course. We were in the teens a couple times. And he was happy. It was a new bag too.
I have a kelty thermolite 35 and a liner, which is supposed to add another 10, at least. While I realize on cold nights I will be wearing EVERY LAYER I HAVE, I was hoping I would be alright.
From the thread comments, sounds like I'm wrong... :confused:
Smak, depends on a few things, assuming you are thru hiking, the biggest one is when you are starting. This thread started with a proposed start time of early march or prior. That leads to some pretty cool nights, no question. If you are starting early march, no way for that bag, IMO. And have you slept in the liner? I can't personally use them, too flip floppy sleeper. Best way is to test your stuff out this winter, temp wise. No other real way to know. If you are leaving late march/april different deal bagwise.
Slow, y don't you leave this post. You got nothing to add constructive to the original posters questions. Plenty of MB users here that are happy. MB users trying to offer constructive ideas/help, unlike u. See ya, oh, and by the way, he already owns the bag.
Funny thing is i only seen 1 mb in cherry cond .....and i seen over priced JUNK.
Coem see....juke fo-wad MB junk....WM maraschino mary.... the man.
max patch
09-03-2009, 10:24
No way that bag would work for me with a late Feb early Mar start.
I have a kelty thermolite 35 and a liner, which is supposed to add another 10, at least. While I realize on cold nights I will be wearing EVERY LAYER I HAVE, I was hoping I would be alright.
From the thread comments, sounds like I'm wrong... :confused:
I think that kelty 35 might be risky too depending.
A conservative rated 30dF or better yet 25dF down bag would be more like it with a quilt topper or liner and some insulated clothing. 15dF even better if not going through the summer with it.
Since I am building a quilt anyway, I have gone back to an overquilt.
It will velcro at the top to the top of my bivy to hold it in place and the foot box will be big enough to go over the footbox of my #2 MB.
A quilt topper and bivy should buy you another 15dF, maybe 20, but in your case are still only at 15-20dF with that.
sweetpeastu
09-03-2009, 10:37
A 20 deg Cats Meow is only good to about 35 deg. You will be alive but pissed off.
Well I disagree. I sleep cold and I've used my TNF 20 deg. Cats Meow below its temp rating and I was warm and snuggly?!? Maybe I got a good one..?
Well I disagree. I sleep cold and I've used my TNF 20 deg. Cats Meow below its temp rating and I was warm and snuggly?!? Maybe I got a good one..?
There is so much variation in sleeping setups its no wonder people cant agree on temp ratings. In a bivy, out of a bivy, in a tent, under a tarp, under the stars, what are you wearing, nude, johns, socks.
Whats under you counts for almost as much as whats one top.
For me I always tested mine under the stars in the open. As for what I have slept on over the years mostly a blue pad. Now I am older and cant tolerate just a thin pad (side sleeper), unless its on about 6" of pine straw or leaves.
Thank god for neoairs. Now at 18 oz I can have a nice comfy neoair on top of a blue pad, and that is about the most comfortable setup I have used.
Blissful
09-03-2009, 12:04
I have a kelty thermolite 35 and a liner, which is supposed to add another 10, at least. While I realize on cold nights I will be wearing EVERY LAYER I HAVE, I was hoping I would be alright.
From the thread comments, sounds like I'm wrong... :confused:
Not for an early March start. It can get to single digits. It was in the teens in early April.
Need 20 degree at least. I go with 15 myself and I use a liner. But I sleep rather cold until 3 Am.
Blissful
09-03-2009, 12:06
There is so much variation in sleeping setups its no wonder people cant agree on temp ratings. In a bivy, out of a bivy, in a tent, under a tarp, under the stars, what are you wearing, nude, johns, socks.
Whats under you counts for almost as much as whats one top.
For me I always tested mine under the stars in the open. As for what I have slept on over the years mostly a blue pad. Now I am older and cant tolerate just a thin pad (side sleeper), unless its on about 6" of pine straw or leaves.
Thank god for neoairs. Now at 18 oz I can have a nice comfy neoair on top of a blue pad, and that is about the most comfortable setup I have used.
Yes the sleeping pad cannot be underestimated. And if you hammock you're gonna be colder unless you insulate.
I used a #2 SS Down Hugger during my 07 thru. Started late March. did have some single digit nights in April – I supplemented with my insulated pants smartwools and lightweight down jacket and was way more that warm in the bag. Looking at your clothing list you'd probably be cutting it close. Summer it was okay – but by that time you'll sleep through almost anything. GL and have fun!
I used a #2 SS Down Hugger during my 07 thru. Started late March. did have some single digit nights in April – I supplemented with my insulated pants smartwools and lightweight down jacket and was way more that warm in the bag. Looking at your clothing list you'd probably be cutting it close. Summer it was okay – but by that time you'll sleep through almost anything. GL and have fun!
Lets say I take off in late feb, early march. You think I would be cutting it close with this gear ??
Spitfire tent
1.25 oz Tyvek bivy
Montbell #2 UL
Climasheild 2.5 XP top quilt (.6" in bivy)
3/8" full bluefoam pad
regular neoair
Merino johns
Whipcord Wool pants
BPL insulated pants or the like
Driducks bottoms
Top wear....
Merino top
Wool shirt
Synthetic vest
Golite salsa or a snowlion polarguard jacket, (thicker)
driducks top
head/foot/handwear
med merino socks
heavy wool socks
down booties
synthetic or wool mitts
synth insul Balaclava
This has got to be good down to minus 5 to minus 10, I would think.
Blissful
09-03-2009, 15:14
wool pants? This all sounds too heavy and too many clothes, imo. What's the weight?
Honestly I'd ditch some of this and go with a lower degree bag. (like 15 degree) and take a liner. Down is lighter weight also, and wool is too heavy for long term trail use (you'll ditch it at Neel gap).
Oh I plan to ditch the wool, and send it back asap.
Just would like it for the FEB/MAR for the 1st part of the trip.
I actually might do a section shakedown hike on the south end in late Dec early Jan for a week or two if I can make it. My parents live about 3-4 hours south of Dahlonega, then pick up again in Feb/Mar. Just need to find some spike type crampons I like other than instep cleats. Thinking microspikes if and when I run into ice.
http://www.kahtoola.com/microspikes.html
If I start in late mar I probably would not take the wool and would strip a lot of that out.
I already have some wool hunting pants, but they are way too heavy.
I think instead of whipcord wool pants I am going to go hit the salvation army store and find some light wool pants there. Maybe I will get lucky and find a light wool shirt too, but I could live without the wool button shirt.
Maybe into the trip I could just cut the pants off into shorts.
Also have a wool shirt I use for hunting, but again too heavy.
How about a 15dF bag in summer ?? Sounds hot.
By the time I strip out the winter gear to send back I should be down to a +- 12# base weight, but I need to mod my spitfire and find a lighter pack to get there. Still if I leave my gear as is, factory spitfire tent, old kelty alpine pack I have had forever, with my #2 MB and insul wear I would be at 14# base weight which is not too bad.
Not Sunshine
09-03-2009, 19:45
While we're on the subject of bags - I did some research on Big Agnes bags - anyone have suggestions/recommendations?
It sounds like they all REQUIRE an air mattress/pad (also, conveniently sold by BA)...but from all the REI and campmor and backcountry reviews - some hate the bags, some love the bag - so I'm completely confused.
Has anyone taken a Big Agnes bag on their thru hike? I would probably only use it for cold months - but the 15-degree Roxy Ann version I'm checking out is only 2# 13oz...seems kind of hard to beat (plus only $150 on sale) - add in the required 20oz air mattress for $80 and I'm still under the $250 line.
Suggestions?
Could be intereting.
I vary between flipping over inside the bag (Side sleeper) to rolling the entire bag over so it would not work for me.
Since you have a pocket on the bottom it seems like you could flip it upside down and stuff some thin insulation in or a simple square superlight climashield or other quilt in and have a dual purpose summer bag.
Of course the pad would be on the outside.
Once I went to a higher R rated pad, I was able to get a lighter bag. When I had a sub zero bag and poor pad, I froze my butt. The heat was always sucked out from under me. My Exped down is not UL, but is worth the weight in gold on the JMT. I was bringing extra layers anyway which was all that was needed for dipping temps.
WTB LONG. (I know, I'll move this post if needed ;)) I have the regular and I'm looking for a long for hubby. Please PM only.
Cheers.
I used one of these with a 40 degree bag down well into the 20's for a whole week. Just make sure it's on the inside, not the outside of your down bag.
http://www.amazon.com/Adventure-Medical-Kits-Heatsheets-Emergency/dp/B000M98A88/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1254510309&sr=1-1
With a 25 degree bag, and your extra clothes, it could make the difference if you have a real unexpected cold snap.
I upgraded to a Montbell #1 spiral 15dF long bag.
2#2oz
It was actually cheaper than a #2 SS UL.
I have the heavier AMK Thermo-Lite 2.0 Emergency Bivvy Sack.
Modified it a bit and it works well. 7oz
http://www.amazon.com/AMK-Thermo-Lite-Emergency-Bivvy-Sack/dp/B000YOH37A/ref=pd_sbs_sg_1