Single wall or Double wall ??

[jcramin]

I am pretty new to the present day backpacking. I used to do it a lot as a Boy Scout but that was many years ago.

I am just wondering what the pros and cons of single wall and double wall tents are ?

I assume single wall will be lighter but cause more condensation ? and double wall is heavier but much less condensation ?

I used my Kelty Gunnisson 3.1 in pouring rain in cool temps and had no condensation ?

What I am trying to do is maybe have two tents, one for summer and one for winter and cold temps, for 2 people and our gear.

Thanks,
J

[Lyle]

Sounds like you understand the trade-offs pretty good. Double wall tents still have condensation, it just keeps it off you and your bag better. You will still have a wet fly to carry the next day. If you want a warm winter tent, pay attention to the amount of mesh comprising the inner tent. More mesh, more breeze, less condensation, less warmth.

One factor that I pay close attention to for a single wall tent especially, is how far away from your bag does the tent stay. Especially when wet or with moderate snow load. Many designs slope quite low over your feet and face - for me this is becoming a big negative.

Even in a double walled tent, if you cannot keep your bag away from the sides of the bathtub floor, you will get some wetting due to condensation.

There seems to be a continuum of designs out there (a very good, if confusing thing), the trick is to get the feature set that fits you best.

Another good thing, is that there is a good market for used tents, especially those with a good reputation, so you can try one or two without totally destroying your finances.

By the way, if you can limit yourself to just two tents, CONGRATULATIONS!!! :D

Good luck and HAVE FUN.

[jcramin]

By the way, if you can limit yourself to just two tents, CONGRATULATIONS!!! :D

Good luck and HAVE FUN.

Actually I have 3 backpacking tents now. One that will fit my son and I and all out dear then we each have our own smaller tent also. And I have 3 family camping tents too.

We have always camped A LOT, but it has always been fair weather family camping. My son and I want to get into some winter camping and snow camping. All the tents I have purchased so far has been for price CHEAP. Except for my Kelty Gunnison 3.1. I purchased the Kelty so my son and I could start backpacking.

But, now I am looking into more specific tents for summer and winter and just trying to learn everything I can about double wall and single wall and some of the super light stuff like go-light and things like that.

Thanks for the help,
J

[Pedaling Fool]

I am pretty new to the present day backpacking. I used to do it a lot as a Boy Scout but that was many years ago.

I am just wondering what the pros and cons of single wall and double wall tents are ?

I assume single wall will be lighter but cause more condensation ? and double wall is heavier but much less condensation ?

I used my Kelty Gunnisson 3.1 in pouring rain in cool temps and had no condensation ?

What I am trying to do is maybe have two tents, one for summer and one for winter and cold temps, for 2 people and our gear.

Thanks,
J
The pro of a double-wall is when you take off the fly - making it a single-wall - therefore, you can stay much cooler (provided you get a tent with ample mesh). And if it's cold or raining you can go back to having a double-wall tent.

The con of a single-wall tent is that it's really (in effect) a double-wall, without the option of making it a single-wall.

I wouldn't waste my money buying two tents for different seasons.

Not sure about the weight factor since I don't pay too much attention to weight.

[Blissful]

I used two tents on the AT- my tarptent until NY then I switched to a double wall freestanding for the tent pads and New England weather that can be tough at best.

[brooklynkayak]

The con of a single-wall tent is that it's really (in effect) a double-wall, without the option of making it a single-wall.

Not all single wall tents. Some have no bug netting, but have an optional internal net tent for bug season.
And of course there are hybrids like the Montbel Cescent 2 which is a 1.5 wall tent. Half of the tent is a double wall the other half single.

And, ....:o

[Gray Blazer]

If you are staying on a bald summit and there is fog and wind, a single wall will spritz you all night when the wind whips up and everything will get soaked. I speak from experience. Single walls are great for out west where there is less moisture in the atmosphere (unless it's raining).

[Mauby]

Unless you're getting a super ultralight single wall tent, there's not THAT much weight difference between single & double wall tents. Of course, the single wall will be somewhat lighter. If you're going with a tent, you may as well get the double wall for the benefits you mentioned. You can always ditch the fly it comes with and replace it with something lighter.

[BobTheBuilder]

The darn things are addictive. There ought to be a 12-step support group for tent people. "Hello, I'm Bob, and I own four tents."

[Gray Blazer]

the Darn Things Are Addictive. There Ought To Be A 12-step Support Group For Tent People. "hello, I'm Bob, And I Own Four Tents."
Hi, Bob......

[brooklynkayak]

If you are staying on a bald summit and there is fog and wind, a single wall will spritz you all night when the wind whips up and everything will get soaked. I speak from experience. Single walls are great for out west where there is less moisture in the atmosphere (unless it's raining).

I only camp on the humid east coast, usually highly exposed areas near water and I only use single wall shelters. Ventilation is important with any shelter, but especially single wall shelters in damp environments.

A few days ago I slept in a rain cloud, on the top of a windy ridge, in my highly ventilated single wall shelter. Everything was wet including the inside of the shelter, it would have been the same with the inner wall/mesh of a double wall tent.
There was spray, but my sleeping bag sheds water so it stayed dry and I was comfy and slept well.

[brooklynkayak]

PS. Remember that the inside wall of a double wall takes up space so you have to factor that in when considering the size. A double wall tent will have to be larger and heavier for the same space.

[jcramin]

I only camp on the humid east coast, usually highly exposed areas near water and I only use single wall shelters. Ventilation is important with any shelter, but especially single wall shelters in damp environments.

A few days ago I slept in a rain cloud, on the top of a windy ridge, in my highly ventilated single wall shelter. Everything was wet including the inside of the shelter, it would have been the same with the inner wall/mesh of a double wall tent.
There was spray, but my sleeping bag sheds water so it stayed dry and I was comfy and slept well.

What kind of sleeping bag do you use ?

[Jester2000]

If you are staying on a bald summit and there is fog and wind, a single wall will spritz you all night when the wind whips up and everything will get soaked. I speak from experience. Single walls are great for out west where there is less moisture in the atmosphere (unless it's raining).

Are you referring to a tarp or maybe a floorless tent? I have a single wall tent and haven't been "spritzed" at night. How is the water getting inside the tent?

[Gray Blazer]

Are you referring to a tarp or maybe a floorless tent? I have a single wall tent and haven't been "spritzed" at night. How is the water getting inside the tent?

The moisture was forming on the outside from the clouds going over the bald and I guess it wasn't waterproof (old walmart puptent I "inherited" when the kids grew up) and everytime the wind gusted it snapped the fabric causing several drops to "spritz " me. This would happen about every 14 seconds and drove me nutz until I spread my emergency space blanket over my head.

[Jester2000]

The moisture was forming on the outside from the clouds going over the bald and I guess it wasn't waterproof (old walmart puptent I "inherited" when the kids grew up) and everytime the wind gusted it snapped the fabric causing several drops to "spritz " me. This would happen about every 14 seconds and drove me nutz until I spread my emergency space blanket over my head.

Ahh, gotcha. The gusting wind could also cause condensation on the inside of the tent to spritz you too, I think.

I've only used mine out west, where condensation isn't as much of an issue (although crazy windy conditions are a problem from time to time).

[skinewmexico]

The darn things are addictive. There ought to be a 12-step support group for tent people. "Hello, I'm Bob, and I own four tents."

Only four? You don't need help, you need to keep buying.

[gravityman]

Thruhiked with the Tarptent Squall 2. Went through many a bad storm in the 6 months with the wife. Best backpacking tent ever. That's my opinion.

Gray Blazer's experience is not typical of the silnylon single wall tents of this decade. There is a very small 'misting' effect in heavy heavy downpores, but not enough to do anything but maybe annoy you every once in a great while.

Gravity

[Summit]

The darn things are addictive. There ought to be a 12-step support group for tent people. "Hello, I'm Bob, and I own four tents."Hey, at the rate I'm going with my REI Visa card, I should have enough money come dividend time to buy a tent . . . hmmm, maybe time for my third tent. :)

OP, I think your Kelty Gunnisson 3.1 is all the tent you need. It has a little mesh but not as much as most so it should be pretty warm into the teens, possibly single digits. Unless you are loaded with cash and want to spend $600 or more on a good quality, heavy expedition tent. Most folks who buy those hire Sherpas to carry them! :)

[brooklynkayak]

What kind of sleeping bag do you use ?

Mine is an Exped with Pertex shell. Lot's of bags lately have a water resistant breathable shell. I trek in boats as well so I tend to be around water a lot so went with the water repellant shell.

[wyominglostandfound]

adequate ventilation= less condensation
double wall tents will condensate if not ventilated well. the insulation should be provided by your sleeping bag and not your tent. stovejacks and heater are always an option if done correctly. heating the inside of your tent can be dangerous and you should always ventilate correctly!!!!

[Graywolf]

Bought a Squall tent (first design) in 2003 and slpt in it ,heat, rain, wind. cold, snow, hail, tornados, well, maybe not tornados, never had no problem with condensation or leaking. Loved it. Stolen in 2006 from a camp site while I was out hiking. Crying shame.

Now have the Squall 2 on order, can't wait for that baby.

If you want a nice tent for your son, check into tarptent.com's Contrail. It is extemely light but very durable. Kinda like a little brother to the Squall.

[Panzer1]

I have never used a double wall tent for backing. I have always used a single wall tent. I have never had any of the problems mentioned above. Yea, there has some some condensation but it has never been enough to be considered a problem. I've had some condensation knocked off the tent by rain but its never been enough to be a problem.

The single wall tents I've used are Bibler I-Tent and Black Diamond Lighthouse.

Panzer

[garlic08]

I've been using a single wall (Tarptent Contrail) for a long time and have learned how to deal with ventilation and condensation fairly well, mainly through site selection. A single wall tent pitched on a high breezy ridge will have less condensation than a double wall pitched near a lake or in a foggy valley bottom, for instance.

I went car camping with my wife in her double wall two-person tent last summer for a few nights, and we got as wet in that from condensation as I ever have in my single wall. Again, site selection and ventilation--we were limited in the car camping sites.

[Tinker]

adequate ventilation= less condensation
double wall tents will condensate if not ventilated well. the insulation should be provided by your sleeping bag and not your tent. stovejacks and heater are always an option if done correctly. heating the inside of your tent can be dangerous and you should always ventilate correctly!!!!

Condensate is a noun, not a verb. Tents suffer from condensation, they do not cause it. It is caused by high humidity (inside), temperature gradient (cooler outside than inside), and lack of airflow (all of which WILL occur on a typical camping trip). The colder the more likely this is. An inner fabric layer will slow the loss of heat, and minimize the difference in temperature between the inside of the tent and the underside of the fly. With good ventilation (of the FLY) this will help keep condensation to a minimum - at a price. Tents with fabric inners tend to be much warmer (hotter) in the summer. For winter, they are ideal.
Just the opposite is true for tents with a mesh inner layer. They act like single wall tents because the heat that your body produces (and the moisture, too) rises to directly contact the underside of the fly. The difference between the inner and outer temperature (especially if the outer is colder) will cause condensation. The mesh will keep you from brushing against it, but if it rains hard the raindrops can knock the condensation off onto you through the mesh, making the tent act like a single wall tent. Everything is a tradeoff, and no tent (or other type of shelter) is perfect for all conditions.
I will be testing a design (or redesign, if you're familiar with ultralight tent history [which was recently (re)introduced to the hiking market]) during the two weeks of my vacation (Sept. 14-27). This is a big deal to me, being a diehard (four season) hammocker. It seems like a good design (and I got a prototype tent for a song).
I'll give a report on it here when I return.
Here's the tent:
http://lightheartgear.com/lighthearttent1.html

[Graywolf]

Condensate is a noun, not a verb. Tents suffer from condensation, they do not cause it. It is caused by high humidity (inside), temperature gradient (cooler outside than inside), and lack of airflow (all of which WILL occur on a typical camping trip). The colder the more likely this is. An inner fabric layer will slow the loss of heat, and minimize the difference in temperature between the inside of the tent and the underside of the fly. With good ventilation (of the FLY) this will help keep condensation to a minimum - at a price. Tents with fabric inners tend to be much warmer (hotter) in the summer. For winter, they are ideal.
Just the opposite is true for tents with a mesh inner layer. They act like single wall tents because the heat that your body produces (and the moisture, too) rises to directly contact the underside of the fly. The difference between the inner and outer temperature (especially if the outer is colder) will cause condensation. The mesh will keep you from brushing against it, but if it rains hard the raindrops can knock the condensation off onto you through the mesh, making the tent act like a single wall tent. Everything is a tradeoff, and no tent (or other type of shelter) is perfect for all conditions.
I will be testing a design (or redesign, if you're familiar with ultralight tent history [which was recently (re)introduced to the hiking market]) during the two weeks of my vacation (Sept. 14-27). This is a big deal to me, being a diehard (four season) hammocker. It seems like a good design (and I got a prototype tent for a song).
I'll give a report on it here when I return.
Here's the tent:
http://lightheartgear.com/lighthearttent1.html

Sometimes when I read posts I feel I am taking english 101 all over again

[Tinker]

Practice makes better.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
(From a guitar instructor that I know).
As far as the English language, it seems to be in a state of constant flux. Computerese, the practice of putting "ing" after nouns to make them verbs is pretty much accepted as the norm now. The reference to the above is not because of improper English as much as it was because I felt that the mechanics of condensation were not being adequately conveyed. Yadayada, ramble, ramble, etc. etc.
Who cares? :D

[Gray Blazer]

You were mechanicsing the conversation.

[wyominglostandfound]

do you hike with your pocket protector?

[mudhead]

If I ever use "antipodean" in casual conversation, you all have permission to slap me silly.

So. In Maine, single wall is drippy?