View Full Version : ATVs on the trail
Finished up the AT in NY this weekend and saw a lot of ATV activity on the last 20 miles in southern NY and several miles into NJ up to Wawayanda. Is this a regular thing in NY? Are ATVs an issue on other sections of the AT?
Trailweaver
09-06-2009, 23:19
Say it ain't so! I cannot imagine the AT being invaded by those noisy things!
Some of the AT was torn up around Dalton in Ma. a couple of years ago just south of Mt. Greylock. Not much. It was near a small pond which was probably used for swimming and general partying.
I recall seeing some activity when I hiked thru VT a couple years ago.
Some folks are out for a challenge.
To some of them the challenge seems to be in the form of a sign "No ATVs Allowed".
Shame a few of them ruin it for the many who honor the request that the AT be a "Hiking Only" trail.
So many trails, yet some folks just have to go where they're not welcome.
Whaddayagonnado?
Actually, I thought about it as I was hiking. It doesn't really bother me. Plenty of trashed sites, litter, and other silliness going on the AT, like anywhere else. Sad maybe, but no sense getting worked up about it.
We also saw a bunch of deer, a large black snack, turkey vultures up close and personal, a colorful salamander, assorted other critters and birds, flora, scenic vistas, and a bunch of folks just out enjoying the good weather. :cool:
Actually, I thought about it as I was hiking. It doesn't really bother me. Plenty of trashed sites, litter, and other silliness going on the AT, like anywhere else. Sad maybe, but no sense getting worked up about it.
We also saw a bunch of deer, a large black snack, turkey vultures up close and personal, a colorful salamander, assorted other critters and birds, flora, scenic vistas, and a bunch of folks just out enjoying the good weather. :cool:
that would be snake, out snacks weren't large or black. :)
that would be snake, out snacks weren't large or black. :)
Yah, I was just thinking what the...........snack???:D
sasquatch2014
09-07-2009, 08:07
When we were doing our April hike down in NJ just a bit north of High point we had an ATV come screaming down the trail at us. they had made one hell of a mess at what was once a very small stream crossing and was now more of a giant mud hole. I put my poles up and started yelling at them half hoping to not get run over. It was not the most cordial of meetings but they turned it around and headed out of there in a hurry when I told them that they were violating federal park service laws.
We have had a few issues south of Telephone Pioneer Shelter over the years but mostly right before hunting season people to lazy to carry their tree stands in by hand to the state lands back there.
saimyoji
09-07-2009, 10:29
that would be snake, out snacks weren't large or black. :)
Freudian slip?
Rain Man
09-07-2009, 10:46
I've hiked all of GA, NC, and TN now, and chunks of VA. What I've seen fall into two categories, I think (just guessing).
1. Adjacent property owners who feel the privilege to take some liberties with "their" woods in their "own backyards."
2. Deer hunters.
I do not like it when I see the evidence of ATVs illegally on the AT, or of horses for that matter, but I will say that it has been relatively light and relatively small portions of the trail. Most folks are decent, law-abiding people.
Rain:sunMan
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freefall
09-07-2009, 15:32
Back in `05 and `06, I saw tracks in TN around Iron Mtn Gap north of Erwin. At the end of my hike I caught a ride from a guy that worked for the forest service and told him about it.
He told me anytime I saw stuff like this to let them know.
On the CT this summer I saw evidence all along segment 2. Went to get water at the fire house and got to talking to a deputy that was hanging out there. I mentioned the tracks to him and he said they were his. He had to go in about 5 miles to rescue someone the week before that couldn't walk out on his own.
I honestly haven't seen a lot of ATV tracks on the AT in the south. The steepness of the trail in many places probably plays a part.
While building the Cumberland Trail in the Plateau region of eastern Tennessee, we've had to contend with damage caused by ATV's a few times. However, it was more a matter of ATV'ers not realizing the new trail was not open to ATV's. As soon as signage and a few boulders or timbers were moved into place near road crossings, those incidents mostly went away.
While ATV's aren't a huge problem in Mass there are a couple of places with chronic trespass. The area you saw in Dalton, Tinker is the area we have the most consistent issue with. We post signage, mark the boundary and connect with local sellers and abutting landowners. In the past 20 years, gates w/ 6" diameter pipe have been ripped out of the ground, signs torn down and brush and rock barricades cleared. The Mass Fish and Wildlife Dept built a 12ft high rubble wall with a backhoe two seasons ago at another entry point, and it has been torn down.
Basically, it comes down to respect. Both for the land and the owner (be that "the People of the United States" for NPS land, or the State of Massachusetts for F&W). The AT Corridor and surrounding F&W lands were purchased from the former owner, who willingly sold his land for the Trail and the preservation of the landscape. The excuse "we've always ridden here", holds no moral or legal water. None of the riders have any rights to use the property for motorized travel.
Stepping off the legal and moral stump for a moment, ATV's and motor bikes can damage the land very quickly. Yes, concentrated hiking can damage the land too, but the maintenance, repair and rehab of a hiking trail (with a few notable exceptions) can be accomplished by volunteer hand labor--maintaining a trail for powerful wheeled vehicles requires heavy equipment in anything but the flattest terrain.
The solution is not simple. Barricades and signage are necessary, but ultimately useless w/o engaging the individuals as people. In Mass, the most difficult problem is finding an organized group of riders that will inculcate a sense of responsibiity in their membership. We have little trouble with snowmobiles, because local clubs educate their members, police their trails and are willing to meet and discuss issues. This is not the case with ATV riders (to generalize).
I've never had the opportunity to meet any of the riders that invade my section of the Corridor. I admit that thoughts of black wire rope strung across the boundary about 4ft off the ground do pass through my brain as I rebuild yet another brush pile and nail a new sign over a destroyed one. That said, riders that I have met in other circumstances (while hiking on THEIR trails, for example) don't have horns, hooves or spiked tails. They are just regular people like me who enjoy being outdoors (behind a helmet, face visor, wearing gloves, pads and boots and riding a 600lb vehicle at 30mph).
Cosmo
Wrangler88
09-07-2009, 16:07
I was sitting in Pleasant Pond Lean-to when a group of 4 wheelers came driving by right in front of the shelter. I know the AT is actually behind the lean-to but it was still kind of annoying.
sasquatch2014
09-07-2009, 22:19
I am all for leaving a fell blow downs in place just to make it a bit more difficult for the ATV's. If it is too much work they will go home there is a reason that they sit their ass on a seat powered by gas.:rolleyes:
That said, riders that I have met in other circumstances (while hiking on THEIR trails, for example) don't have horns, hooves or spiked tails. They are just regular people like me who enjoy being outdoors (behind a helmet, face visor, wearing gloves, pads and boots and riding a 600lb vehicle at 30mph).
Cosmo
I'll take a wild ass guess they don't get as close as I did this week to deer, turkey vultures and other woodland creatures. :-?
It's not about nature, mostly, it's the thrill of big power.
Sure they appreciate the silence once they turn off their machines (except for the ringing in their ears ;)).
They even add to the silence by scaring off every living, moving creature.
Some eventually get lured to the dark side of "tree hugging"
Unfortunately, they are rare.
Still, as a post above stated, they can be used for SAR, so they are a useful tool in the right circumstance.
I had to laugh at Sasquatch's post. I can imagine a bald, not too small, gotee wearing dude with a pack waving a pair of pointy metal hiking sticks my way.....Yah, I'd turn tail too! :D
I am all for leaving a fell blow downs in place just to make it a bit more difficult for the ATV's. If it is too much work they will go home there is a reason that they sit their ass on a seat powered by gas.:rolleyes:
While I would never defend anyone for tresspass violations, I do take exception to this narrow view... It's no more accurate than the view that all hikers are granola eating tree huggers...
I happen to own an atv... I use it for both work and play... I live in an area with no local official "groomed" hiking trails. So over the years i've built some of my own (on my own property) and the atv has been extremely valuable in the maintance process... Further it allows me to gain access to very remote bush(logging roads, old trade routes) that I can't access by car as a jumping off point to begin hikes... With limits to time and other commitments an ATV can really expand your hiking range... I can quickly cover old logging roads or such to reach remote locations and than spend my valuable time hiking an area that previously would have been untouchable due to time constraints...
An ATV in itself is not inherantly evil, it depends entirely on the human using it... Like guns, drugs or any other man made tool...
I'd find it difficult to manage my property without an atv, and would definitely miss the hiking oportunities it provides...
Luckily I live in an area with a very organized and active provincial atv federation, so outside of a few bad apples, the atv community is a possitive and helpful organization for outdoor pursuits of all kinds. They actively assist in SAR, trail building and maintaining for multi use trails and welcome hikers to their trails. My experience with them as a hiker on their turf has always been possitive... In fact, the general practice when they encounter a hiker, mountain biker or aquestrian on their trails seems to be come to a stop, shut off ignition and welcome the user to their trails...
There are stupid people in any group, find a cure for that and you won't have issues with ATVs...
sheepdog
09-08-2009, 07:39
I'll take a wild ass guess they don't get as close as I did this week to deer, turkey vultures and other woodland creatures. :-?
Do turkey vultures circle you a lot while hiking? Maybe you should pick up the pace.:D
sheepdog
09-08-2009, 07:46
Appalachian
Trail
Vehicle
what's the problem??
Do turkey vultures circle you a lot while hiking? Maybe you should pick up the pace.:D
I did 16 miles in 8.5 hours Sunday when I saw the vultures, yet I couldn't seem to shake them. Any suggestions? :)
Two Speed
09-08-2009, 12:01
Grab the vultures by the shoulders and rapidly alternate pushing and pulling? That oughta shake 'em.
sheepdog
09-08-2009, 12:09
I did 16 miles in 8.5 hours Sunday when I saw the vultures, yet I couldn't seem to shake them. Any suggestions? :)
Increase your life insurance and make sheepdog the benificiary.
Increase your life insurance and make sheepdog the benificiary.
I keep telling them, "I'm not dead yet." They must have missed the movie.
sheepdog
09-08-2009, 14:16
I keep telling them, "I'm not dead yet." They must have missed the movie.
cover your eyes
sasquatch2014
09-08-2009, 21:36
While I would never defend anyone for tresspass violations, I do take exception to this narrow view... It's no more accurate than the view that all hikers are granola eating tree huggers...
I happen to own an atv... I use it for both work and play... I live in an area with no local official "groomed" hiking trails. So over the years i've built some of my own (on my own property) and the atv has been extremely valuable in the maintance process... Further it allows me to gain access to very remote bush(logging roads, old trade routes) that I can't access by car as a jumping off point to begin hikes... With limits to time and other commitments an ATV can really expand your hiking range... I can quickly cover old logging roads or such to reach remote locations and than spend my valuable time hiking an area that previously would have been untouchable due to time constraints...
An ATV in itself is not inherantly evil, it depends entirely on the human using it... Like guns, drugs or any other man made tool...
I'd find it difficult to manage my property without an atv, and would definitely miss the hiking oportunities it provides...
Luckily I live in an area with a very organized and active provincial atv federation, so outside of a few bad apples, the atv community is a possitive and helpful organization for outdoor pursuits of all kinds. They actively assist in SAR, trail building and maintaining for multi use trails and welcome hikers to their trails. My experience with them as a hiker on their turf has always been possitive... In fact, the general practice when they encounter a hiker, mountain biker or aquestrian on their trails seems to be come to a stop, shut off ignition and welcome the user to their trails...
There are stupid people in any group, find a cure for that and you won't have issues with ATVs...
Most of this is regional. The ATV users I knew out west are a different breed from the ones I have come across in the east. the point is the same though if you had to be off your ATV all the time to clear the trail would you be on your ATV or would you be on foot?
When on horse back out west there were areas that if on foot would not have been an issue but in saddle they were a major obstacle. I wait 6 months and I can blow over them at 45 mph on my snow machine. Things very area to area. As the area they were talking about was mostly NY/NJ I speak from living in that area now.
Enjoy your wild and wide open spaces most people will never know what they are like.
that would be snake, out snacks weren't large or black. :)
Yeah, but what about those in snacks