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Not Sunshine
09-07-2009, 14:02
Down vs. Synthetic Insulation Guide


Gettin' Down: Down Insulation (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/lp2/down-v-synthetic-guide.html#1)
Go with the Faux: Synthetic Insulation (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/lp2/down-v-synthetic-guide.html#2)


<!--end Page nav--> <!--Content - update - use h3, p, a, img (w/class right or left) --> Is it to-may-to or to-mah-to? The chicken or the egg? Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron?
Life is full of conundrums that have the potential for sparking intense debate. Outdoor enthusiasts can get pretty "hot" over the subject of keeping warm (if you'll please pardon the very bad pun), with purists insisting on the superiority of down and technology-embracing adventurers touting the benefits of synthetics.
While we may not have a definitive winner, each type of insulation does have its place in the great outdoors. We've created this guide to help you choose the insulation option that will work best for you. Looking for a jacket to wear around town or a warm sleeping bag for a winter camping expedition? We've broken down the advantages (and drawbacks) of both down and synthetics so you can make an educated purchase.


:banana Gettin' Down: Down Insulation
Contrary to popular belief, down insulation is not made of feathers. Instead, down is actually the fluffy undercoating of a bird's plumage (geese, ducks, and other waterfowl) and looks like interlocking wisps of dandelion fluff. Down works for you just like it works for the bird; it keeps you warm by trapping an abundance of body heat within its tiny clusters. And because it is also breathable, down allows unwanted moisture to escape.
Pros DOWN


Is warmer than synthetic insulation ounce for ounce. No manmade fiber matches down in its warmth-to-weight ratio.



Retains its shape and loft and, with proper care, can last a lifetime. No synthetic can beat down's longevity. Down holds up better over years of use.
Wicks body moisture and allows it to evaporate. Moisture wicking goes a long way in keeping you comfortable.
Is highly compressible and lightweight. Although synthetic insulation has come a long way, it doesn't hold a candle to down's ultralight weight and amazing compressibility. Down is the preferred choice for backpackers who want to travel light in dry conditions.

Cons


Loses its insulating properties when wet and is slow to dry. And if down gear is damp-especially in a humid climate-it will take a great deal of time to dry. Don't count on leaving your wet sleeping bag to dry while you take a day hike. Chances are it may not be dry enough for you to sleep in that night.
Requires special cleaning. Cleaning down gear is labor intensive. Harsh detergents and chemicals will break down its natural loft and luster. If you don't dry clean your gear, only very mild detergents or down-specific cleaning products should be used.
May contain allergens. Down is not entirely hypoallergenic. While the down may not cause an allergic reaction itself, lower quality down can harbor dust particles, debris, or other non-down materials, causing a reaction. However, higher quality down is cleaned according to strict industry standards. If you're prone to allergies, it's wise to invest in better quality down products.
Costs a pretty penny. Down insulation is far more expensive than synthetic insulation, but it's a great value for the avid outdoor enthusiast if you factor in down's resistance to deterioration. Recreational campers and hikers can get the job done with synthetic gear, which is usually a more wallet-friendly option.

Types of Down
Down-filled sleeping bags and outerwear are generally warmer and lighter than their synthetic counterparts. Down is considered the best insulation for cold, dry weather conditions and expedition use and comes in the following varieties:


High loft goose down is made from very fine down and provides the best insulation of any other filling because it traps the most air. High loft down is mostly used in expedition sleeping bags and outerwear where minimal bulk and low weight are critical.
Goose down is very fine and more reasonably priced than high loft down.
Duck down is less fine than goose down and considerably less expensive.

Facts about Fill Power


Down is rated according to fill power-meaning the number of cubic inches one ounce of down will occupy. For example, if one ounce of down takes up a volume of 650 cubic inches, it is given a 650 fill power rating.
Loft refers to the thickness of the insulating material in a sleeping bag or garment.
The quality of the down is directly related to its fill power rating. Thus, down warmth is a function of both fill power and the amount of fill in a sleeping bag or garment.
High quality down has a high fill power and is much loftier than down of a lower quality, requiring fewer ounces of down to create insulating warmth.
Most companies use only goose down which has a minimum fill power of 500 to 550.
The higher the fill power, the better the down will insulate because there is less of a chance of "cold spots"-areas in the bag or garment where there is no down.
Today's higher-end manufacturers offer 600 to 750 fill power as their standard fill.
If a label doesn't specify fill power, it is usually because the down falls in a range below 400 cubic inches or the item contains less than 75% down.

400 (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=400%20fill&searchDescriptions=True) | 450 (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=450%20fill&searchDescriptions=True) | 500 (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=500%20fill&searchDescriptions=True) | 550 (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=550%20fill&searchDescriptions=True) | 600 (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=600%20fill&searchDescriptions=True) | 650 (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=650%20fill&searchDescriptions=True) | 700 (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=700%20Fill&searchDescriptions=True) | 750 (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=750%20fill&searchDescriptions=True)
Making the Grade
Down also comes in a number of different grades (or qualities). For example, a 90% goose down garment will consist of 90% down and 10% feathers. The higher the percentage is, the purer the down will be. High percentage grade insulation will also be very low in weight and bulk, but higher in price.
The Bottom Line
Down is Mother Nature's best insulator. It provides incredible warmth for minimal weight and is highly compressible and resilient; but it comes at a price.



:banana Go with the Faux: Synthetic Insulation
Many of us can probably remember a hiking trip we took with our family as a child. We all wanted to be wrapped in the heavenly warmth of down, but it was out of Dad's price range. Instead we layered. We layered until we could not bend our arms or legs. And then we whined.
Luckily, synthetic technology has gotten a lot more sophisticated and now there are numerous manmade materials that mimic down without the hefty price tag.
Synthetic insulation is essentially polyester threading that is molded into long single threads or short staples to mimic lofty down clusters. Thinner and lighter threads fill voids and trap warm air more effectively, while thicker strands sustain the loft and durability.
Pros


Is water resistant and provides insulation when wet. Synthetic fills are, at the very least, resistant to moisture while many will actually shed water rather than absorb it. These water-resisting properties allow the synthetic fill to retain the majority of its insulating properties when wet.
Dries quickly. When a synthetic fill does get wet, the moisture is trapped in the air pockets between the fibers rather than in the fibers themselves. For this reason, synthetic fills will dry much faster than down fills-usually in a matter of minutes in direct sunlight.
Is generally less expensive than down. Unless geese start lowering prices on down, synthetic insulation will always be cheaper than its natural counterpart.
Is easy to care for. Most synthetic fill sleeping bags or garments are machine washable and dryable.
Is completely hypoallergenic. Because synthetics are manmade, they are, for the most part, hypoallergenic.
Offers a greater range of options for those on a budget. Synthetic fills vary greatly in durability, bulk, weight, and price so there are more options available for beginning hikers or children who quickly outgrow their clothes.

Cons


Can be bulky and less compact than down. Synthetics tend to be much bulkier and less compact than down, taking up valuable space when you're trekking around.
Heavier than down. Synthetic fill requires more weight to get the same warmth that the lighter down provides.
Breaks down over time. Synthetic fibers gradually break down no matter how well you care them. You may find yourself replacing synthetic products quicker than you would down products.
May cause fit problems. Some less-expensive synthetic fills can be stiffer than down and may not drape as well. Higher-end synthetic fills, though, can be hard to distinguish from down and fit just as well.

Common Synthetic Fill Fibers
With rapidly advancing technology, new synthetic fill materials are being created all the time. Here is a list of some of the most popular synthetic insulations.
Polarguard® (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=polarguard&searchDescriptions=True)

Polarguard® is an insulating material made of continuous synthetic fibers. It retains its loft and insulating properties when wet. It is also non-allergenic, mildew-resistant, and machine washable/dryable.
Polarguard® 3D maintains the same properties as its predecessor, but is made of a softer fiber that more closely resembles down.
Polarguard® HV, like the original and 3D versions, is made of continuous synthetic fibers, but is 25% lighter and more compressible making it an ideal material for use in backpacking and expedition gear.
Polarguard® Delta is the latest development in synthetic insulation. Constructed of hollow core continuous filaments, this insulation is lighter, more durable, and more thermally efficient than any other Polarguard® product. These advances are achieved by a larger diameter fiber with more hollow space inside to create a stronger, higher lofting insulation. Polarguard® Delta is a good fill for items like sleeping bags which are subject to repeat stuffing.
Sierra Trading Post vendors that use Polarguard® technology:Lowe Alpine, (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Lowe-Alpine.html)Sierra Designs, (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Sierra-Designs.html)Kelty (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Kelty.html)
Primaloft® (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=primaloft&searchDescriptions=True)

Primaloft® is an ultra-fine microfiber blend that is incredibly soft, lightweight, and water repellent. It also has a down-like softness that adds comfort and appeal. In addition to sleeping bags and outerwear, Primaloft® is used in the construction of insulated footwear.
Primaloft® One has the highest warmth-to-weight ratio of any synthetic insulation currently on the market. It is soft and durable, high loft, 100% polyester microfiber insulation. It is thermally efficient, lightweight and compressible, fast drying, and water resistant. However, it is also the most expensive synthetic to manufacture.
Sierra Trading Post vendors that use Primaloft® technology:


Mountain Hardwear (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Mountain-Hardwear.html)
Cloudveil (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Cloudveil.html)
The North Face (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/The-North-Face.html)
Ex Officio (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Ex-Officio.html)

Thinsulate® (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=thinsulate&searchDescriptions=True)

Thinsulate® was introduced as the original "warmth without bulk" synthetic insulation. It retains its ability to insulate even when wet. The ultra-fine microfibers trap warm air more efficiently than larger fibers and in doing so reflect back more of the body's radiant heat. It's breathable and moisture-resistant.
Thinsulate® insulation comes in 40, 70, 100, and 150 gram weights. The higher the gram weights, the warmer the insulation will be. Thinner insulation is used in the construction of casual sportswear and high activity winter sportswear, while the thicker insulation is used in the construction of extreme weather clothing. Headwear, gloves, and shoes are made of insulation of various thicknesses.
Sierra Trading Post vendors that use Thinsulate® technology:


Manzella (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Manzella.html)
Jacob Ash (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Jacob-Ash.html)
Tibor (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Tibor-Leather.html)
Obermeyer (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Obermeyer.html)
Browning (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Browning.html)
Sorel (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Sorel.html)
The North Face (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/The-North-Face.html)
Merrell (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/The-North-Face.html)
Timberland (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Timberland.html)
Columbia (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Columbia-Sportswear.html)
Spyder (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Spyder.html)

Thermolite® (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=thermolite&searchDescriptions=True)

All Thermolite® insulations are designed for exceptional warmth-even when wet-without the bulk of down. They are also machine washable and dryable.
Thermolite® Extreme is a high-tech insulation engineered to provide the most warmth per weight and durability of any Thermolite® performance fill. It is also compactible and possesses a supple drape.
Thermolite® Extra most closely resembles the warmth, softness, and fullness of down. It provides a high loft that retains its fullness and remains resilient through many uses.
Thermolite® Micro is less bulky than Thermolite® Extra, but provides comparable softness and warmth. This lightweight insulation provides warmth when wet and dries quickly. It is also the most compatictible of all the Thermolite® insulations.
Thermolite® Plus is designed for use in extreme conditions. It provides the most warmth of any Thermolite® insulation when wet. It also holds up exceptionally well after multiple washings.
Thermolite® Active is to be used during high-energy pursuits. It provides warmth at a minimum thickness and wicks moisture away from the body much better than down and the other Thermolite® insulations.
Sierra Trading Post vendors that use Thermolite® technology:


Lole (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Lole.html)
Obermeyer (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Obermeyer.html)
Orage (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Orage.html)
Tibor (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Tibor-Leather.html)
Karbon (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Karbon.html)
Kelty (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Kelty.html)
Columbia (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Columbia-Sportswear.html)
Sorel (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Sorel.html)

Other Synthetic Materials

You will see a variety of synthetic materials under various names on the market. These synthetic insulation materials have similar properties and characteristics. Here are a few names you may encounter:


Dryloft®: A two-ply laminated shell fabric designed specifically for insulating parkas and sleeping bags. Dryloft® is twice as breathable as Gore-Tex®, but not as waterproof.
Hollofil®: A polyester insulation used in bargain brand sleeping bags and apparel.
Liteloft®: A polyester/olefin used in sleeping bags and outerwear.
MicroLoft®: A polyester insulation made of fibers thinner than a human hair. The dense structure is said to trap heat more efficiently than other synthetics of equal thickness. It is also highly water resistant.
Quallofil®: High-loft polyester insulation with a soft, down-like feel. It is used primarily in sleeping bags, but also in insulating outerwear and accessories.
Thermoloft®: Medium-loft synthetic insulation that combines solid-core polyester fibers with hollow Quallofil® fibers. The blend is used most often in insulated outerwear, where high-loft fills are too bulky and low-loft fills aren't warm enough.

Many outerwear and sleeping bag manufacturers have their own registered brands of synthetic insulation. Look for:


ThermaWeb® (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=thermaweb&searchDescriptions=True) from Spyder
MarmaLoft® (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?allWords=marmaloft&searchDescriptions=True) from Marmot

Closing Arguments

Can we declare a winner in the down vs. synthetic debate? The fact of the matter is that down is better except when synthetic is better. The distinguishing line gets more blurred every year. Just a few years ago, down was unmatched; but today's lighter, warmer, and more compressible synthetics are slowly closing the gap. In order to find your best match, keep these key things in mind:


Down works well for just about everyone-unless you frequently find yourself in wet weather.
Synthetic insulation is a good choice for children and for newbie campers or backpackers because of its lower cost and quick-drying properties.
Down still wins in terms of weight, compressibility, and durability, but synthetic is the hands-down winner in the cost department.
Continuous technological advancements in synthetic materials are giving down a run for its money. You may not be able to tell the difference.

Del Q
09-07-2009, 20:04
Long one. Down wins, weight issue plain and simple, I have "seen the light", hope to be at or below 30 lbs with food & water in 2 weeks for Fall AT hike. Much nicer.

Wise Old Owl
09-07-2009, 22:56
Nevermind..... :D:-?

mrhughes1982
09-07-2009, 23:21
And one day they will find a cure for the chiggars!

tammons
09-08-2009, 11:56
Isnt Climasheild currently the best synthetic insul ??

With the new DWR coatings, IMO nothing can beat down for warmth, compressibility, and weight.

Back 20 or more years ago it was a little iffy at times especially on those soggy AT weeks. No DWR and just the constant humidty would cause delofting.

The only real benefit of synthetic I can see now, is that if you bag gets totally soaked you might actually survive the night with a synthetic bag, although if that is the case you should probably be car camping rather than long distance hiking.

Unless they come up with some helium filled super material, by the time synthetic insul gets to the point where its lighter per warmth than down, it will probably absorb just as much water.

Cannibal
09-08-2009, 12:00
Noah's flood couldn't get me to go back to synthetics. :eek:

I work hard to keep my gear dry; if it gets wet, it's my fault and I deserve to be punished. If it's so bad that I can't stay warm, I just pack-up and start walking with my feathery light down. Synthetic is great (ie; cheap) for around the home or car camping, but hiking...not for me anymore. Not even close.

tammons
09-08-2009, 13:10
I do think a MYOG climashield XP summer quilt makes sense.

A 2.5 oz version with .9 oz momentum would weigh about 12 oz and would be easy to build compared to a down quilt. It would cost about $120 or so in materials. If you did it with 1.3oz walmart nylon, it would cost about
$30-40 and weigh about 1.5 oz more

A down quilt, same loft would weigh maybe 9-10 oz so not a whole lot of difference in weight.

Snowleopard
09-08-2009, 14:15
Climashield and Primaloft one and Primaloft sport are the current high quality synthetics.
In cold weather there will be significant condensation inside the sleeping bag unless a vapor barrier is used. Some people find vapor barriers uncomfortable. This makes a two bag system reasonable -- a down bag inside a synthetic bag -- then condensation occurs inside the synthetic bag. For this winter, I'll make a synthetic overbag to go over my down bag to bring the temperature rating to lower than -20F.

Despite that a high quality -40F (=-40C) down sleeping bag is what I would get if I could afford it.

I agree with tammons that a MYOG climashield XP quilt makes a lot of sense for summer.

tammons
09-08-2009, 15:15
I have a snowlion -40 bag I want to sell if you are interested PM me.

Its got some miles on it, faded a bit around the head, but no rips, holes or tears. 10" loft, double zipper with a snap in neck baffle. Without the neck bafffle it weighs 4#. Fits 6'-1".
Needs to be cleaned. I am very attached to it, had it a long time, but I just dont need a -40 bag anymore.

Lyle
09-08-2009, 15:26
I've been very impressed with the bags and garments that I have that use PrimaLoft. Very light, compressible, drapes nicely. Closest to Down (still the gold standard).

Peaks
09-08-2009, 16:18
The higher the temperature rating, the less fill. Much of the weight of a summer bag is in the shell and zippers. So, all other things considered equal, a synthetic bag makes more sense in summer. conversely, you might be swayed toward a down bag for your winter sleeping bag. Spring and fall: That can be a toss up.

Jim Adams
09-08-2009, 17:46
down.

geek

Egads
09-08-2009, 19:26
down wins every time in my backpack

I like wool too, but you didn't ask

Phreak
09-08-2009, 19:29
Down. And only down.

ed bell
09-08-2009, 19:50
I'm down with down. There are a few things that need to stay dry in any pack. It's easy to do with the right system. I've used down only in the Southeast US for fifteen years in all seasons. The truth is it takes a lot of moisture/water to soak a down bag to uselessness. I've had rain blow in under the tarp, heavy tent condensation, spilled water and thick fog. The shell gets damp (after the pertex shell lost some effectiveness) but there is no decline in warmth that I could tell. When the cold weather really comes in to the equation, the down really kicks into high gear. If the loft and baffles stay fresh through proper storage, shake-outs and periodic cleaning, the bag will be essentially the same for a loooong time.

Mags
09-08-2009, 21:06
Down all the way. More expensive, but longer life.

Peaks
09-09-2009, 07:42
Down all the way. More expensive, but longer life.

I've got 3 sleeping bags. For what it's worth, my 3 season bag is synthetic. It's got one thru-hike on it, and gets used a couple of weeks every year. It's at least 15 years old. Just like a down filled bag. Take care of it, and it lasts a long time.

Mags
09-09-2009, 12:34
I've got 3 sleeping bags. For what it's worth, my 3 season bag is synthetic. It's got one thru-hike on it, and gets used a couple of weeks every year. It's at least 15 years old. Just like a down filled bag. Take care of it, and it lasts a long time.

I doubt a synthetic bag would last 3 long thru-hikes (AT,PCT,CDT), the LTx2, the CT and whatever else I've done with the one bag (all over New England and the American West) until I had to retire it.

It also flies in the face of people who have similar experience.


One thru-hike and the equivalent of two weeks backpacking is not a good benchmark..esp without knowing the specific material/brand of bag.

LyttleBryan
09-15-2009, 10:37
More interesting information. I never get tired of this debate :)

toenail
12-08-2009, 18:31
I'm currently using down bags. A Lafuma warm and light 800,which is good to about 45 degrees. And a Marmot pinnacle 15 degree bag for colder weather. But from what heard about the mountain hardware Ultra lamina 30 bag I just might go to synthetic.

Colter
12-08-2009, 19:40
I think it's fair to say that the more experienced the backpacker, the more likely they are to use a down sleeping bag. (As usual, there are exceptions.)

And if down gear is damp-especially in a humid climate-it will take a great deal of time to dry.

Actually, I think damp down dries pretty well. Wet, as in clumped down, will take forever to dry. I guess. I never got my down bag wet in the wild. It takes a lot of water, not just condensation or a few drips, to get a down bag soaked.

Pick a good campsite where water won't pool, line your stuff sack with an oven bag or a trash compactor bag, and just be careful to keep your down bag dry. If you do, down wins handily.

Bags4266
12-08-2009, 20:50
I think it's fair to say that the more experienced the backpacker, the more likely they are to use a down sleeping bag. (As usual, there are exceptions.)

And if down gear is damp-especially in a humid climate-it will take a great deal of time to dry.

Actually, I think damp down dries pretty well. Wet, as in clumped down, will take forever to dry. I guess. I never got my down bag wet in the wild. It takes a lot of water, not just condensation or a few drips, to get a down bag soaked.

Pick a good campsite where water won't pool, line your stuff sack with an oven bag or a trash compactor bag, and just be careful to keep your down bag dry. If you do, down wins handily.


"More Experienced" Please. I made a hiker quilt out of 3.7 combat, 1.1 rip, good to 40* weighs 1lb on the nose packs to a small football. Beats any down price wise. Of course not pack wise. But during the warmer seasons my pack has more than enough room. When something of down can beat that for $54.00 let me know

KarmaGurl
12-09-2009, 02:32
Decided to try an experiment of my own last year with 2 equally rated bags- one down, and one synthetic.....THe down- a Marmot 20F bag, and the Synthetic, a NorthFace 20F. Both are considered good bags, or so I've read. Temps were sposed to be in the mid 30sF that nite, no significant weather.
Well folks, by the time about 2 am rolled around, I was digging for my down bag- I was FREEZING in the North Face bag. Gratefully, I crawled into my Marmot bag, and snuggled in, warm and toasty for the rest of the nite.
And since I know your sleeping pad has alot to do with it, I was sleeping on an Exped7 Downmat, regular length, as I'm a side sleeper.

My lesson learned? My freezin butt will be taking a down bag on my trips, and will be making sure it stays D R Y. A dry sack and doubled with a trash bag or 2, should do the job, as long as one is careful about things, I think. Ive used my synthetic 3 times,on short trips, and it already shows signs of clumping in places. Yuk. My down bags-both of them, look and act like new. Just my 2 cents.

Connie
12-20-2009, 01:26
Many say the Wiggy synthetic sleeping bags do not clump. Anyone have experience?

I have heard synthetic insulations is better, recently.

I am trying to decide between down and synthetic, again, this time for a quilt.

LIhikers
12-24-2009, 22:52
I've used a Wiggy's bag in temperatures that went to 25 below zero and was nice and warm as well as comfortable. The bag belonged to the lodge where I did a 5 day dog sled camping trip and was a vital part of their business. I'd bet it had hundreds of nights of use and was still doing it's job well. I was told that it was rated for 65 below zero. You could never use the thing for backpacking as it was just too heavy and bulky. We just laid them out flat on the dog sleds.
Wiggy may have other models of sleeping bag available, I don't know.

Raul Perez
01-03-2010, 11:18
very nice article thanks for the info

Mr. Underhill
01-03-2010, 12:24
Good information. I have down for cold weather. For warmer camping I have a 30 degree down but recently purchased a 30 degree synthetic because it is a bit lighter and wetness will not be an issue. I always double bag the sleeping bag in my pack, just in case.

BSF-Hiker
07-01-2010, 11:57
Thanks for posting all the information!

I purchased a Marmot Atom 40 Degree Down Sleeping Bag and love it. It's an 850+ down, stuffs smaller than football, and weighs a little over 1 pound. I haven't even had it zipped all the way up yet, although I normally get cold sleeping.

I'll be in the market for a zero down bag later in the year to replace my synthetic zero bag.

Luddite
07-02-2010, 14:41
Down definitely Wins.

DBRIGGS9
10-14-2010, 01:27
if you care at all about weight and packability, down is the clear answer. if youre into being "bomb proof" then yeah, down isnt the right choice.

northernstorm
10-15-2010, 14:31
Nice article. I'm a down fan though.

Del Q
10-15-2010, 21:19
I don't see how synthetic could possibly win, pure weight issue. at 60 degrees, different story, cold out? Down, weight rules here. Maybe "technology" will catch up in time

tammons
10-17-2010, 11:02
The only real benefit to me for synthetic is it dries faster.
In a constantly wet environment like the pacific northwest I would prefer synthetic or in summer anywhere.

Miriam
10-19-2010, 18:37
I would like to make my own could you explain more please?

tammons
10-20-2010, 11:57
Miriam,

If you want to make your own, I would suggest starting with a quilt with a boxed foot and build it out of Climasheild.

Its easy to work with and you only have to sew it on the edges. For fabric hit the local Walmart and you might luck out and find some 1.1 oz DWR ripstop. I found some a while back for $1.50 per yard.

If you cant find that go to Thruhiker and get some .9 oz nylon there. The taffetta is supposed to be really comfy.

http://thru-hiker.com/materials/breathable.php

Use 2.5 oz Climasheild for summer and about 50dF
3.7 oz for 40dF
5 oz for 30dF
Etc
They are out of 2.5 oz right now.
http://thru-hiker.com/materials/insulation.php

If you do a drawstring footbox its pretty easy.
A real footbox is a little more difficult but not too bad

Basically just sew a shell inside out, edge stich on the climasheild,
turn it right side out and close it up.

If you want to build a down sleeping bag or quilt its a lot more work
with boxed channels etc.
I have worked with down before and its messy.

Trailbender
11-15-2010, 12:21
Miriam,

If you want to make your own, I would suggest starting with a quilt with a boxed foot and build it out of Climasheild.

Its easy to work with and you only have to sew it on the edges. For fabric hit the local Walmart and you might luck out and find some 1.1 oz DWR ripstop. I found some a while back for $1.50 per yard.

If you cant find that go to Thruhiker and get some .9 oz nylon there. The taffetta is supposed to be really comfy.

http://thru-hiker.com/materials/breathable.php

Use 2.5 oz Climasheild for summer and about 50dF
3.7 oz for 40dF
5 oz for 30dF
Etc
They are out of 2.5 oz right now.
http://thru-hiker.com/materials/insulation.php

If you do a drawstring footbox its pretty easy.
A real footbox is a little more difficult but not too bad

Basically just sew a shell inside out, edge stich on the climasheild,
turn it right side out and close it up.

If you want to build a down sleeping bag or quilt its a lot more work
with boxed channels etc.
I have worked with down before and its messy.

I just buy a sleeping bag and convert it to a quilt. I dropped probably 4-6 oz off my sleeping bag doing this.