Ultra-Light Air Mattress

[gardenville]

A couple days ago someone at another hiking site posted a web site for a company in England that was selling an Ultra-Lite Air Mattress that used replacement Balloons. They cost about $35 US $$.
http://www.balloonbed.co.uk
I found some balloons and made myself one. I used balloons that were 3"x65" long (4 grams each) and used 5 of them. I used some left-over $1.00 a yard nylon from Wal-Mart for the bag/sleeve part. The total weight was 5oz.

I was looking for longer balloons and called a guy that puts on "Balloon Parties". He said he used some poly tubing that could be cut any length and had a diameter of about 3". I went to see him and he gave me some pieces cut to 78" long to test/play with. He heat sealed one end complety and sealed the other end about 80%. This gave me a small opening so I could blow it up by mouth or use a small balloon pump (2.7oz). Using the poly tube stuff the Air Mattress is 78" long by 24" wide. The weight using the poly tubing is about 10oz. Duct Tape will stick to this stuff and will seal a small leak and maybe a small tear.

10oz's for a more or less full size Air Mattress isn't to bad.

I believe that a Down Air Mattress could be made using this stuff and I plan to try that when I can get some Down.

I have about a dozen ideas for this stuff from a Bivy with a floor that would hold the air tubes to a double floor hammock with Down tubes for winter time. A Poncho/Air Mattress sleeve and a few clothing ideas.

I posted 7 pictures in my Photo Gallery if anyone wants to see what this looks like.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showmembers.php?si=gardenville&x=13&y=7&perpage=12&sort=4cat=500&ppuser

[Kerosene]

Awesome! Maybe another 9 ounces from my pack!

[Pencil Pusher]

Gear test!;)

[gardenville]

Pencil Pusher, What kind of test would make you happy? Maybe you need to see the next version, back to Balloons and a weight of 2.5oz. Or the trail test "for real" version with the poly tubes at less than 8oz.

[Baldy]

Cool idea. You could probably save a little more weight by using mosquitoe mesh instead of the nylon. One question, though. How are you going to tie off the ends of the tubes and still be able to unseal them the next day without damaging them? One problem with the Balloonbed on that website is that you have to pop the balloons when you pack-up in the morning, which means you need to bring balloons for each day.

[gardenville]

Baldy, I have done some "What If-Math" for different fabric. I did the Math for some silk gauze that I use for bug net. It is .45oz per square yard. Using (6) 3x65" balloons and making the Air mattress 60" long it would weigh about 2.4oz. for one night. Very light. But if I was doing a 5 day resupply schedule I would need 30 balloons plus a few spares, say total of about 35 (4.1oz), I would need the balloon pump (2.7oz) and the silk guaze bag/sleeve (1.53oz). [Total weight is 8.33oz +/- at 60" long, 24" wide and 3" thick.] This load would not get lighter as you used balloons since I know you will practice "Pack it in Pack it out".

If I used the poly tubes I would make the Air mattress 78" long and 6 tubes. The weight of the 6 tubes would be 5.5oz. To inflate you blow up the end that isn't heat sealed closed. All you have to do is blow it up, then twist it closed and knot it. This has passed my water test and the air will stay in the tube for several days. To let the air out you just remove the knot. This stuff is 2mil thick and seems to be tough stuff. Adding the fabric bag/sleeve and the [Total weight is 7.68oz +/- at 78" long, 24" wide and 3" thick]

The real value of all this is for me is the weight savings I hope to achieve for winter hiking. I have just ordered a bunch of Down from Thru-Hiker to make a Down Air Mattress. I can add up to 8oz of Down to the Poly Tube Air Mattress and still be just under 16oz. That would save me 20oz+ over the Stephenson DAM I now have. I have had a few pepole ask about the trouble of blowing up the tubes each day. I just inflated blowing one up the 78" tubes in 15 seconds. That isn't much even times 5 or 6 tubes.

Playing with the balloons and the poly tubing have generated so many new ideas for other ways to use the poly tubing for hiking gear. I will never get my new tent finished.

[Rocalousas]

Where do you get these balloons and the sleeves, and how do you get the five sleeves to stay together? This may seem basic to you but I'm confused.

If you put down in the balloons and you have to pop them each morning, will you just empty the down into a ziplock bag and pour it back into the balloons at night? Then how do you seal the balloons after filling them with down?

[gardenville]

Rocalousas: Go back to the first message in this thread and look at the pictures in my Gallery of both the Air Mattress using [Balloons] and the [2nd Generation Air mattress that uses the Poly Tubes]. You will see that I make an Air Mattress outer shell of fabric. It is a flat piece of fabric doubled. I then sewed it from one end to the other every 6" apart. This gave me the 5 sleeves that the balloons or Poly Tubing can slide into completing the Air Mattress.

I will only use the Poly Tubes for Down. The Poly Tube stuff comes on a 3,000' roll, it is flat when you get it and you cut it to what ever length you want. One end is then heat sealed close (air tight). The other end is open. Put the Down baffles (think of a baffle as one leg of a pair of panty hose that has Down in it and sewn closed) the baffle is slid into the Poly Tubes from the open end. You can then blow up the tube by mouth or with a balloon pump), twist about 2" or 3" of the open end of the tube tight and tie it in a knot. When you are finished with the Air mattress you just un-tie the knot, let the air out and pack the Air Mattress up.

If you want to get some balloon to try first they sell them at most Hobby/Toy/Party type stores. Ask for 2x60, 3x50 or 3x65 sizes and the are used for balloon "Sculpture". the size means 2" around x 60" long etc. If you are going to try the balloons you might want to get a balloon pump. They don't cost much and make blowing up the balloons very easy. I could not blow up one of the 3x65" balloons and had to go back to the store for a pump. The pump was $3.99 and the cost of gas to go back for a second trip to get the pump might pay for the pump if you just get it on the first trip.

There may be an easy source for a few pieces of the Poly Tubing. The person that I got mine from said he would sell me some more if I wanted it. He gave me a price of 5 pieces of the tubing 78" long (he will heat seal them however I want them) for about $4 or $5. This price comes out to about $.08 to $.10 a foot. Monday I will call him for a firm price as there are some others that might want some.

[Youngblood]

The real value of all this is for me is the weight savings I hope to achieve for winter hiking. I have just ordered a bunch of Down from Thru-Hiker to make a Down Air Mattress. I can add up to 8oz of Down to the Poly Tube Air Mattress and still be just under 16oz. That would save me 20oz+ over the Stephenson DAM I now have.

So Bill... how much do you want for that heavy Stephenson DAM? :) Sorry, couldn't help myself. Have you had a chance to try out the Stephenson DAM in any cool weather and are you satisfied with the size?

Dave

[gardenville]

The Stephenson DAM is a Quality product with big "Q". I had mastered the "blow-up bag" by the second time I tried it. I am the "air-bag" master. The Stephenson DAM was to be a major part of my coming winter Hammock hiking. I have only had it a few months. I bought it early in case my inflate skills were slow. If you read the directions it helps a lot. I got what they call the 64 size (74" long and 26" wide). It is great in my hammock and fine sleeping on it flat. I sleep mostly on my side and that doesn't take a lot of space. I do not plan to get ride of my Stephenson DAM but how much I now use it is a big question. The weight of this item is what started me on a hunt for a way I could make a DAM one and make it lighter. I just got lucky when I happened upon the Poly Tubing.

The Poly Tubing opens up so many new possibilities IF it works out. That means many things are up in the air as far as my current gear goes. If the Down works in the the Poly Tubing like I hope it does the the sky is the limit. My Big Four gear items are now in the 3 pound range and may go as low as 2 pounds and not much more in the colder months.

I can see it now. Hiking the AT with a pack weight of well under 5 pounds plus food, water and other use-up-ables and the heavy weight hikers pushing 15 pounds plus.

[U-BOLT]

One end is then heat sealed close (air tight).Can you seal it with a household iron? If not, how? (Assuming the guy who supplied yours does not do it.)


When you are finished with the Air mattress you just un-tie the knot, let the air out and pack the Air Mattress up.So you re-use the poly tubes, unlike the balloons?


There may be an easy source for a few pieces of the Poly Tubing. The person that I got mine from said he would sell me some more if I wanted it. He gave me a price of 5 pieces of the tubing 78" long (he will heat seal them however I want them) for about $4 or $5. This price comes out to about $.08 to $.10 a foot. Monday I will call him for a firm price as there are some others that might want some.
Please let us know and give us a contact number. I'd like to try it but don't want to buy a 3,000 foot roll.

[gardenville]

I would not use a make-shift sealer. You could tie a knot in both ends or may be able to find some kind of clip that would work. Having said that doesn't mean that nothing else would work to seal the stuff. I would just want to test it a lot first. A Seal-a-Meal thing might work if it was made for 2Mil thick stuff. I just found this stuff 5 days and didn't have to worry about how I would seal it at the time I got it. So some of these question didn't seem very important at the time.

Yes, the Poly Tubing can be used over and over but the total number of times would be up to how it was taken care of. Check out this web site for more information:

http://www.pac-tek.com/tubing.htm You can find there prices listed and other sizes.

I will check with the person here and see how he wants to handle any out of town sales. I will post that information here sometime Monday afternoon.

I added two more pictures to my Gallery, 1 of the Heat Sealer and 1 of what the Poly Tubing looks like as you buy it on a roll.

[gardenville]

For anyone that wants to try and make something out of Poly Tubing. The person I got mine from will sell small amounts of this tubing. He sent me an email with the following: He will sell it as a package of 10 tubes 80" long, inflates to 3", is 5" flat, sealed 100% on one end and 80% on the other end with an air hole left for inflation. Price is $8.00 Plus Shipping and Handling. Shipping in US is $5.00 Priory Mail no tracking / $9.00 FedEx Ground w/tracking. Will take a credit card.

I think he will cut the tubes any length up to 80". But at the same cost as 80".

If anyone wants to order some of this send me an email or your email address and I will forward the complete message with "How to order" information.

I am not connected to this business in anyway except as a customer.

[steve hiker]

Gardenville I tried sending you an email to get the information but you said you don't want to get emails on Whiteblaze. So please post the contact info here or send it to me [email protected] This sounds like something good to make compared to heavy thremarests.


For anyone that wants to try and make something out of Poly Tubing. The person I got mine from will sell small amounts of this tubing. He sent me an email with the following: He will sell it as a package of 10 tubes 80" long, inflates to 3", is 5" flat, sealed 100% on one end and 80% on the other end with an air hole left for inflation. Price is $8.00 Plus Shipping and Handling. Shipping in US is $5.00 Priory Mail no tracking / $9.00 FedEx Ground w/tracking. Will take a credit card.

I think he will cut the tubes any length up to 80". But at the same cost as 80".

If anyone wants to order some of this send me an email or your email address and I will forward the complete message with "How to order" information.

I am not connected to this business in anyway except as a customer.

[gardenville]

Gardenville I tried sending you an email to get the information but you said you don't want to get emails on Whiteblaze. So please post the contact info here or send it to me [email protected] This sounds like something good to make compared to heavy thremarests.

Jumble Jowls: I sent the information about the Poly Tubing to your email address. I don't know why "whiteblaze" didn't send me your email. I have gotten others.

There is a real good "thread" about my Poly Tube Air Mattress and lots of pictures at http://www.backpacking.net/forums

Look for "Hyper-Light Air Mattress-Photo's Added". The thread has had 58 replies and 2216 views. Look over this message thread and if you have any questions let me know. Thanks for your interest.

[peter_pan]

Gardenville,

Smee and I made one of the ballon models in a sylnil cover. 3.0 oz w/ one set of 8 260s. Chose to make it 47 " long. Cool.

How do you keep the poly tubes from loosing the down when u deflate? Seems like the down would rush out with the air.

Cool project, you are commended! :clap

[steve hiker]

How do you keep the poly tubes from loosing the down when u deflate? Seems like the down would rush out with the air.
Put the Down baffles (think of a baffle as one leg of a pair of panty hose that has Down in it and sewn closed) the baffle is slid into the Poly Tubes from the open end.
What do you make your down baffles out of? I don't know many womans that have 70-inch long legs so panty hose wouldn't do the trick. Not even circus women have legs that long. :bse Do you think Gardenville taht mosquito mesh stiched into baffle length would do the trick, or would it be too porous and let the down fly out?

[gardenville]

Thanks for answering peter_pans question. Thru-Hiker.com sells no-see-um netting for Down baffles and includes it in his Down Bag/Quilt kits. It comes 53" wide and is $3.95 a yard. It is listed under "Breathable Fabric" item ID: MG107.

Have you ever seen Grace Jones? I think her legs are 6 or 7 foot long.

No-see-um netting is used by everyone I know of for down baffles. There may be other materials that would work if someone wanted to test them. There are a lot of gauze type materials sold.

I am playing with a very unconventional idea for baffles but it requires
"out-sourcing" some of the work. I haven't gotten an answer yet to see if what I want done will work and how much it will cost. It may also turnout to be to heavier than I am willing to use.

[hiker dude]

This is the best thread yet. Keep up the good work. I'm just winding down from the weekend and I love your stuff almost the best, whatever you do, don't ever buy a foam pad or your idea will go UP IN SMOKE.:sun

[gardenville]

This is the best thread yet. Keep up the good work. I'm just winding down from the weekend and I love your stuff almost the best, whatever you do, don't ever buy a foam pad or your idea will go UP IN SMOKE.:sun
I have a bunch different foam pads. Do you mean they are more confortable? For me this is all about weight/"R" value. I am after something I can use in my hammock that will help keep me warm from 20* to 0* and do it lighter than any type of sleeping pad, pod or whatever. This is going to be a Down Air Mattress as good as my Stephenson DAM but about half the weight.

For the regular Poly Air Mattress it is 3" thick by 24" wide by 78" long and weighs about 8oz.

What kind of pad are you using? Thanks for your interest. Check back often.

[PaulandJoc]

Just come to this thread - late I'm afraid. Balloonbed have experimented with lay flat poly tubing and we find it does not produce a resilient enough envelope. You can lay on about 6 of them carefully (you have to get on the bed with extreme care) but they are just not robust enough for a good night's sleep. One of the good things about latex balloons is that the resultant mattress can be stepped on and even jumped on without envelope failure - this is because the air in the compressed part moves to the rest of the balloon which can stretch to accomodate the extra air. Lay flat poly tubing does not stretch - it justs bursts. We use 38gms/sqm rip-stop nylon (parachute material) and this gets the whole bed (and pump) weight down to below 100g (3.5oz).

Would be happy to share further info. with anyone interested.

[gardenville]

Just come to this thread - late I'm afraid. Balloonbed have experimented with lay flat poly tubing and we find it does not produce a resilient enough envelope. You can lay on about 6 of them carefully (you have to get on the bed with extreme care) but they are just not robust enough for a good night's sleep. One of the good things about latex balloons is that the resultant mattress can be stepped on and even jumped on without envelope failure - this is because the air in the compressed part moves to the rest of the balloon which can stretch to accomodate the extra air. Lay flat poly tubing does not stretch - it justs bursts. We use 38gms/sqm rip-stop nylon (parachute material) and this gets the whole bed (and pump) weight down to below 100g (3.5oz).

Would be happy to share further info. with anyone interested.

Sorry to disagree with you. I have used my Poly-Tube Air Mattress in my Hammock enough to say that I have had NO problems with the Poly Tubing. Maybe the tubing you tested with was a lighter MIL rating than what I am using. I have made several "balloon beds" and the biggest problem I have with them is they are to short. I even was able to find balloons here in the USA that were 3x65". I do agree with the lighter weight. My first air mattress material was some $1.00 a yard stuff I had left over from other projects. For a "for real" poly tube air mattress I am using very light weight silk. I don't know why anyone would pay the price they sell for in the UK when you can make one yourself for about 5 yards of material and a couple dollars worth of balloons. That would also give you a lot of extra balloons since the balloon are only good one time but are cheap. This isn't rocket science and the materials are just about dirt cheap.

[gardenville]

I have finish a version of my Poly Tube Air Mattress as a Down Air Mattress (DAM). I am using the same Poly Tubes and Air Mattress Shell as the first Air Mattress. I have 1oz of 800+ Down in baffles for each of the 5 Poly Tube's. The total weight for the DAM is less than 14oz. It is 78" long, 26" wide and is 3-1/2 " thick or loft. I made the Down baffles out of very light weight silk. They can be removed to adjust the warmth or to let them dry or air out. The DAM will be used in my Hammock to keep my backside warm in the winter. The whole package can be stuffed into a 5" by 10" stuff sack. See pictures in my Gallery for a sort of step-by-step process.

[Kerosene]

Thanks for the series of great assembly photos, Gardenville. This approach seems much simpler than an underquilt setup. Do you think that the 26" width will be wide enough to wrap around your sleeping bag in the hammock? Even at relatively warm temperatures I've found that any compression of the bag against the side, usually from my knees or butt, gets very cool very quickly.

[gardenville]

Thanks for the series of great assembly photos, Gardenville. This approach seems much simpler than an underquilt setup. Do you think that the 26" width will be wide enough to wrap around your sleeping bag in the hammock? Even at relatively warm temperatures I've found that any compression of the bag against the side, usually from my knees or butt, gets very cool very quickly.

I have been asked why I didn't go toward the "underquilt setup". I watched with amazement all the clever ways so many different folks were making things to use with their hammocks to extend there use into the colder months. I didn't know how to sew that well so I looked for a way to add "R" value (insulation) under my backside. That lead me to the purchase of a Stephenson's Down Air Mattress (DAM). I really love that idea and it works great. I talked to Stephenson's many times on the phone (please note they are not into email but can be reach very easy by phone). I asked lots of questions about the DAM and how could it be made lighter. They were very nice but didn't really have an answer for a full size DAM that was also very light. The break through for me was discovering the Flat Poly Tube material. After that this all became easy.

My DAM is one part of what I hope to turn into an integrated system of the Poly Tube-Down Air Mattress (bottom) and a Poly Tube Down Quilt/Sleeping Bag Top (top). The Big-Agus?? and Stephenson's use something like this. mine will assemble into something like a bivy cover so there shouln't be any cold spots. The air in the Poly Tubes should prevent compression at the pressure points. The size of 26" wide can be increased by adding more Poly Tubes. I made a sixth Down baffle so the next one will be about 30" wide.

Each Poly Tube is independent of the others in that I can remove one or more Down baffles and increase or decrese the amout of Down in each baffle. If I find I do have a cold spot I can add more Down or maybe a small amount of a synthetic insulation to fix the problem. I also plan to muti-use some of the Down baffles in clothing items during the day. The Poly Tubing will slide into or out of a sleeve on something like a vest or jacket very easy. The Poly Tube material also protects the Down Baffle from rain or wear. The muti-use idea is more to see if I can do it. It might turn out to be not very practical for everyday use.

[tlbj6142]

Does the Stephenson's DAM self-inflate? Or do you need to blow it up as well? I wonder about long term use and mold.

I've read the thread and looked at the pictures, but I'm not clear about a couple of things.

It appears as though you put the down inside of some netting tubes and then put the down filled netting tube inside of a poly tube? Added air. And wrapped the entire thing in some type of ripstop sleeves/shell. Sound about correct?

[gardenville]

Does the Stephenson's DAM self-inflate? Or do you need to blow it up as well? I wonder about long term use and mold.

I've read the thread and looked at the pictures, but I'm not clear about a couple of things.

It appears as though you put the down inside of some netting tubes and then put the down filled netting tube inside of a poly tube? Added air. And wrapped the entire thing in some type of ripstop sleeves/shell. Sound about correct?

The Stephenson's DAM uses a stuff sack as a pump of sorts to blow it up. I have some pictures of it in my Gallery photos. No air by mouth and I have no idea about long term mold.

I made baffles for the Down out of very light weight silk mesh (the long white netting tubes). I fill the silk baffles with the Down and just closed that end with a knot. The Air Mattress Shell (this can be made how ever long or wide you think you need). Wide, is one or more tubes at 3-1/2" (5" flat) each and the length is cut how ever long you want it. The shell is double material and sewn long ways with a sleeve for each tube (this one has 5 sleeves/tubes but the next one I make will have 6). I put the down baffles in a Poly Tube and slide the tube into one of the sleeves. I do this till all sleeves are full. When I want to use the DAM I blow up each Poly Tube, roll the end and put a clamp on it. If I need to wash, dry out or just want to air out the down baffles I can remove the baffles from the Poly Tubes. This way I can also use the Poly Tubes empty like a regular Air Mattress.

[tlbj6142]

The Stephenson's DAM uses a stuff sack as a pump of sorts to blow it up. That's right. I forgot that's how it works.


I made baffles for the Down out of very light weight silk mesh (the long white netting tubes).That's what I thought.


When I want to use the DAM I blow up each Poly Tube, roll the end and put a clamp on it.I saw the white clamps in the picture. Are they included in the weight? I thought you tied a knot in the poly tubes? Is the clamp something "new"? Where were you able to find the clamps?


If I need to wash, dry out or just want to air out the down baffles I can remove the baffles from the Poly Tubes.Perfect. Minimizes the concern about using "breath" to fill the tubes.

If I read the above posts correctly, the total weight is 14oz. For 5 poly tubes, 5 mesh tubes, 1 ripstop "cover" and 6 oz of down. Correct?

[gardenville]

That's right. I forgot that's how it works.

That's what I thought.

I saw the white clamps in the picture. Are they included in the weight? I thought you tied a knot in the poly tubes? Is the clamp something "new"? Where were you able to find the clamps?

Perfect. Minimizes the concern about using "breath" to fill the tubes.

If I read the above posts correctly, the total weight is 14oz. For 5 poly tubes, 5 mesh tubes, 1 ripstop "cover" and 6 oz of down. Correct?

Prototype weight break-out:
1 Poly Tube 78" long w/silk baffle/w 1oz 800+Down = 1.5oz x 5 = 7.5oz
1 Air Mattress Shell (Wal Mart $1 a yard stuff) = 4.3oz
5 Plastic clamps = 2.0oz
Necessary Air = 0.0oz
-------------
13.8oz

Someone send me a picture of those clamps. They sell them at the Container Store (we have one near where I live) 2/$1.29. They are called Twixit and come in a couple of different sizes. The ones I use are 4-1/4" long. I tried some and decided that cold fingers (winter time) might have a hard time with the knot. For summer I could go back to the knot and save that 2oz.

For the "for real" DAM I will drop 2 oz or more with a lighter shell fabric
(may also be silk) and can go to a baffle fabric that is also a little lighter silk. I used what I had on-hand for this first DAM. I think I can get the final weight for the DAM at this size down to 10oz and still use the plastic clamps. I think a summer Air Mattress this size using the Poly Tubes and a knot on the tubing could weigh as little 5oz. maybe less. If I camp where there is a good water supply I could even fill the Poly Tubes up with water and make a water bed out of it. Sleeping on the ground and not in my Hammock.

[tlbj6142]

How would we make it "thinner" for summer use? Use less air?

Seems like 1.5" would be great for the summer. Wider poly bags?

[gardenville]

How would we make it "thinner" for summer use? Use less air?

Seems like 1.5" would be great for the summer. Wider poly bags?

How about some "oval" Poly Tubing? I haven't seen any of that but it is worth a toll free phone call to ask.

This site is just one of many that sells the Flat Poly Tubing.
http://www.jcdanczak.com/our_products/subcat_53.html

I am not sure I understand the question. You can get the Poly Tube stuff in 1", 1.5", 2", 2.5", 3" ..... up to 48" diameter. A piece of 48" diameter should be big enough for a one person tent.

If you are thinking about many pieces of a smaller diameter tubing for a summer Air Mattress I see no reason why it would not work. It would just be a lot of tubes to blow up. I had thought about some 4" stuff for the top quilt/thing to go along with the DAM. I don't think I will because I am not sure if that is enough room for the Down to Loft as much as it can.

[steve hiker]

I'm sold on this and plan to make one, for winter shelter use. But, how well do you think this mattress would stay put in a hammock? I tried a hammock last week and the pad I was using slid around all over the place and tried to jump off the side taking me with it.

[gardenville]

I'm sold on this and plan to make one, for winter shelter use. But, how well do you think this mattress would stay put in a hammock? I tried a hammock last week and the pad I was using slid around all over the place and tried to jump off the side taking me with it.

A few questions? What kind of Hammock did you try out? My Hammock is one made by Ed Speer. http://www.speerhammocks.com I think you lay more IN his Hammock, this is hard to discribe but the Speer design sort of rolls up around you. He also custom made mine for me out of some silk I sent him. I have never had a problem sliding in my Hammock. A lot of that I think is because of the silk. A lot of Hammocks are made out of Ripstop nylon of one type or another. That stuff is slipery. Also sleeping pads are a little slipery and the problem you had may be from that also. The Speer Hammock is almost impossible to slide out of.

I have used my Poly Tube Air Mattress in my Hammock and it forms itself to the conture of the Hammock great. I have some pictures of me using my Poly Tube Air Mattress in my Hammock but I don't konw if I put them in my Photo Gallery here.

A Down Air Mattress should be great for use in a shelter during the winter. You can't really beat the Down and the Air in the mattress part keeps it from compressing away to nothing under you.

[steve hiker]

It was a Hennessey. The pad I was using was a very slick windshield screen, so that may have had something to do with it.

A more annoying problem is that I'm a side sleeper and change positions frequently, and in the hammock it was hard to keep my bag in the same place. In a shelter or a tent, you roll over simply by putting a hand or elbow to the ground, which keeps the sleeping bag in place as you turn over. But with a hammock, there's nothing firm under you to keep the bag in place.

So I found myself having to turn over very slowly and carefully, which is annoying to say the least when you're basically asleep and trying to change postions quickly with minimal energy and attention. Perhaps it just takes practice.

[Flash Hand]

Cool idea. You could probably save a little more weight by using mosquitoe mesh instead of the nylon. One question, though. How are you going to tie off the ends of the tubes and still be able to unseal them the next day without damaging them? One problem with the Balloonbed on that website is that you have to pop the balloons when you pack-up in the morning, which means you need to bring balloons for each day.


Thru hiker take about 6 months or 180 days of hike, it would be around 900 balloons needed for the entire trail. Ill probably take therm a rest, less hassle.

Flash Hand :jump

[gardenville]

It was a Hennessey. The pad I was using was a very slick windshield screen, so that may have had something to do with it.

A more annoying problem is that I'm a side sleeper and change positions frequently, and in the hammock it was hard to keep my bag in the same place. In a shelter or a tent, you roll over simply by putting a hand or elbow to the ground, which keeps the sleeping bag in place as you turn over. But with a hammock, there's nothing firm under you to keep the bag in place.

So I found myself having to turn over very slowly and carefully, which is annoying to say the least when you're basically asleep and trying to change postions quickly with minimal energy and attention. Perhaps it just takes practice.
I have never been near a Hennessey Hammock. I don't understand the idea behind the design. That doesn't mean it isn't a good design, they sell a lot of them. I have just never had a real look at one.

I have 5 Hammocks. 2 are "real Army Jungle Hammocks" from 1967/68, 2 are from Vietnam and the Speer. The Ed Speer Hammock is just so simple it great. You can make one without any sewing if you don't use velcro on the bug net.

I also sleep on my side but with a pad such as a Target Blue Pad in warmer weather and it works fine. The Target Pad is very wide and is about as long as my hammock. It can't move. The pad provides a sort of platform with only a little sage. I also don't move much when I sleep. I think most hammock users like a quilt type covering vs a sleeping bag. A thin pad in the summer also helps keep bugs from bitting my backside. I think my Target Pad weighs 8 or 9 ounces but will be replaced with a summer Poly Tube Air Mattress next year that will weigh about 4 or 5oz.

My current Poly Tube Air Mattress - DAM doesn't move in the Hammock. The Poly Tubes bend and fit the Hammock great.

[MedicineMan]

Months ago I posted a list of people to include in the Hammocking Hall of Fame....you are now inducted!
What you have done/are doing is brilliant....many CEOs would love to get their hands on a mind like yours to get their companies out of the doldrums.

Let me know when you are going to sell a 30" wide model. I would love to get my hands on one or even make one but time now and for the forseeable future is limited.

Again major kudos for your work in our sport!

[gardenville]

Thru hiker take about 6 months or 180 days of hike, it would be around 900 balloons needed for the entire trail. Ill probably take therm a rest, less hassle.

Flash Hand :jump
deleted - deleted - deleted - hahahaha

I would suggest that you go to message 1 and read down from there. Then you might like to look at my Photo Gallery that has a bunch of pictures that should answer a lot of questions.

You are correct about a lot of balloons. I don't use balloons. I use a very light 5" wide flat - Poly Tubing that is heat sealed on one end. Then a silk baffle with 1oz of 800+ Down in it is put into each Poly Tube. The Poly Tube is blown up and some of the end material is rolled up and a clamp is put on it. In the morning the clamp is removed and the air let out. The DAM is rolled up to a size of about 5" by 10" and put in a bag of some type. This will weigh about 10oz in is final form. This is 78" long, 26" wide and 3-1/2" thick. It can be longer or shorter and wider if you want it.

I like the Thermarest and have several. But compaired to my Down Air Mattress (DAM) they don't. Sorry, they are a lot heavier, thiner, lower "R" value by a lot which means the DAM is going to keep you much warmer.

If on you AT Thru-Hike the weather gets warm enough that you don't need something this warm you just take the Down baffles out of the Poly Tubes and use it as a plain Air Mattress. The weight comes down to about 5oz or less and you still have a full 3-1/2 thickness of comfort to sleep on. If you are near a good water supply you can even fill the Poly Tubes up with water and use it as a water bed. You! can even try this in a hammock, once. Wake up the next morning and use the warm water for a shower and hike on, clean and rested. Fat City.

[gardenville]

Months ago I posted a list of people to include in the Hammocking Hall of Fame....you are now inducted!
What you have done/are doing is brilliant....many CEOs would love to get their hands on a mind like yours to get their companies out of the doldrums.

Let me know when you are going to sell a 30" wide model. I would love to get my hands on one or even make one but time now and for the forseeable future is limited.

Again major kudos for your work in our sport!

Thanks MedicineMan very much, I appriciate this a lot. Maybe we can shake hands of the trail someday. I am just an old retired Infantryman looking for a better, lighter way to enjoy the outdoors.

[gardenville]

Let me know when you are going to sell a 30" wide model. I would love to get my hands on one or even make one but time now and for the forseeable future is limited.

Medicine Man: I have finished ver 2 of my DAM. This one is 7 tubes wide (30") also 78" long. It will be the prototype DAM for my "0" degrees hammock system. It is in my hammock at this time. It is made to come up the inside of the hammock higher than my body. The Down top quilt/cover (what ever it ends up being called) will attach to the edges of the DAM and have 4" of loft for "0" degrees. I have posted some pictures in my photo Gallery for those interested.

[steve hiker]

How much no-seeum netting do you other folks order for the baffles? I'm looking at Thru-Hiker.com product MG107 which comes 53" wide and is sold by the yard. So with 10 tubes I figure thus:

--3 yards = 102 inches which will cover the length of the 80 inch baffles
--need top and bottom pieces, so will need to order 6 yards
--10 tubes at 3" each is 30 inches so 53 inches will cover the width

== order 6 yards of the 53" netting

Anyone think different?

[steve hiker]

I use a very light 5" wide flat - Poly Tubing that is heat sealed on one end. Then a silk baffle with 1oz of 800+ Down in it is put into each Poly Tube. The Poly Tube is blown up and some of the end material is rolled up and a clamp is put on it.
So when ordering the poly tubes you want one end completely unsealed so you can slide the down baffles in, right? (Not 80% sealed for a simple air mattress.)

[gardenville]

How much no-seeum netting do you other folks order for the baffles? I'm looking at Thru-Hiker.com product MG107 which comes 53" wide and is sold by the yard. So with 10 tubes I figure thus:

--3 yards = 102 inches which will cover the length of the 80 inch baffles
--need top and bottom pieces, so will need to order 6 yards
--10 tubes at 3" each is 30 inches so 53 inches will cover the width

== order 6 yards of the 53" netting Anyone think different?

First the question about the Noseeum's. I have ordered a yard of noseeum from Thru-Hiker along with some other stuff to see what the noseeum looks like. I have always used silk for my Down baffles.

My silk baffles were for 5" poly tubes and I made the baffles 5" wide sewn along one side end to end. This required a piece of silk 11" wide folded in half and sewn with a 1/2" seam allowance for each baffle.

If you are using a 3" poly tube this should require a piece of baffle material 6-1/2" to 7" wide (1/4" or 1/2" seam allowance) by 80" times 10. If you buy 6 yards you will have enough and some left over. You might go with less than 6 yards but you would have to sew pieces together to have enough.

[gardenville]

So when ordering the poly tubes you want one end completely unsealed so you can slide the down baffles in, right? (Not 80% sealed for a simple air mattress.)

That is correct. One end 100% sealed and one end open. The nice thing about this idea is that you can take the Down Baffles out to dry if they get damp or need to be washed.

I have been thinking about the setup in cold weather so have decided to use my small balloon pump all the time. It weighs 2.7oz and makes it easier to blow up the Poly Tubes than with my mouth. I also don't have to worry about moisture from my breath making the Down damp if I use the pump. Trying to tie and un-tie a knot in cold weather made me decide to go with the small plastic clips. Cold fingers and knots don't mix very well.

[steve hiker]

I have always used silk for my Down baffles.
I know nothing about silk. What kind of silk would I ask for if I went into a fabric shop in Jersey? What would I say to one of them goils at the counter?


I have been thinking about the setup in cold weather so have decided to use my small balloon pump all the time. It weighs 2.7oz and makes it easier to blow up the Poly Tubes than with my mouth.
Where can you find this balloon pump? Is there an internet site that sells it?

[steve hiker]

Gardenville –

I took the plunge and ordered the poly tubes and 6 oz. of down from Thru-Hiker. My questions have to do with dimensions when sewing the baffles and the outer material that holds everything in place.

First, how wide do you sew each baffle? Since the poly tubes are 5 ¼ wide I figure I’ll make the baffles just under 5 ¼ wide so there’s not a lot of dead air space in the poly tubes. That would mean I need to cut the baffle fabric just over 10 ½ wide (allowing a little extra for the seamstress to get the material under her machine), or 11 inches wide with instructions to sew it together at 5 1/8 wide.

Similar question regarding the outer material that the poly tubes slide into. I assume each of the 6 sections should be sewn together at 5 3/8 wide, so you can slide the poly tubes in without leaving much dead air space. Seems dead air space could be fatal to the effectiveness of the DAM since it would allow cold air to move up to the sleeping bag.

Finally, when you slide the down baffles into the poly tubes or the poly tubes into the outer jacket, the width may shrink due to the height of the baffles/tubes, but I assume that doesn’t make a difference since the total volume (width x height) remains the same. Hope I’m making sense here.

[gardenville]

I know nothing about silk. What kind of silk would I ask for if I went into a fabric shop in Jersey? What would I say to one of them goils at the counter?


Where can you find this balloon pump? Is there an internet site that sells it?

I thought I answered this awhile back but I don't see it. I buy my Silk from ThaiSilks.com but you might be able to find some in a local fabric shop. What I use for my baffles cost $3.40 a yard. It is item #22FW in the Thai Silk catalog. The stuff is called Silk Gauze and weighs 0.57oz per square yard. You might also ask for nylon gauze or mesh at your local fabric store. I used this material as I had a lot of it from something else and I think it compresses better than the No-Seeums stuff. It also was lighter. It is what might be called DownProof. That is that the Down stays in it almost 100%. I use 800+ Down so it doesn't have many feathers in it to poke through the baffles.

The small balloon pump came from a hobby store called Hobby Lobby. They sell a lot of balloons and I would look at a Hobby, Toy, or Party Supplies store for one.

[gardenville]

Gardenville –

I took the plunge and ordered the poly tubes and 6 oz. of down from Thru-Hiker. My questions have to do with dimensions when sewing the baffles and the outer material that holds everything in place.

First, how wide do you sew each baffle? Since the poly tubes are 5 ¼ wide I figure I’ll make the baffles just under 5 ¼ wide so there’s not a lot of dead air space in the poly tubes. That would mean I need to cut the baffle fabric just over 10 ½ wide (allowing a little extra for the seamstress to get the material under her machine), or 11 inches wide with instructions to sew it together at 5 1/8 wide.

Similar question regarding the outer material that the poly tubes slide into. I assume each of the 6 sections should be sewn together at 5 3/8 wide, so you can slide the poly tubes in without leaving much dead air space. Seems dead air space could be fatal to the effectiveness of the DAM since it would allow cold air to move up to the sleeping bag.

Finally, when you slide the down baffles into the poly tubes or the poly tubes into the outer jacket, the width may shrink due to the height of the baffles/tubes, but I assume that doesn’t make a difference since the total volume (width x height) remains the same. Hope I’m making sense here.

Hi Steve, I am happy to see you are going to make yourself a DAM. Is Thru-Hiker selling the Poly Tube material?? That would be good as it would give anyone a place to get a small amount of the stuff.

I want to refer you to: http://www.backpacking.net/makegear.html
I have a thread there on this subject with 102 replies and should answer most any question you have. I also have a lot of photo's showing me making the Air Mattress - then the DAM and now the Down cover for the DAM.

When you get to the site look on the left side of the page and scroll down to "RESOURCES" and click on "Making Gear - a Discussion FORUM".

I think you have to join to view the messages. After doing this go to "Main Index" and look for "Lite Gear Talk". Click on this then go to the bottom of the page and click on page 3. About half way down the page you will see the message thread called "Hyper-Light Down Air Mattress" Click on this. I would start at the first message and read to the end.

If you don't find an answer to one of your questions you might ask it there to keep your question in that thread. I am happy to answer questions but most have been asked.

One different question comes to mind. My poly tube stuff is 5" flat and when blown up is about 3-1/2" around. The sleeve to hold my poly tubes are sewn 6" wide and are tight when the tubes are blown up. You will see pictures of this in the "Backpack.net Thread". For the 5" poly tubes I made my baffles 5" wide. My baffles are then 5" wide material doubled (10") plus seam allowance of 1/2" on each piece for a total width before sewing of 11". Yours might be a little wider. Anyway look over the backpacking.net thread and if you have more question fire away.

[jlb2012]

I want to refer you to: http://www.backpacking.net/makegear.html
I have a thread there on this subject with 102 replies and should answer most any question you have. I also have a lot of photo's showing me making the Air Mattress - then the DAM and now the Down cover for the DAM.

Anyway look over the backpacking.net thread and if you have more question fire away.


link to the specific thread on TLB : Hyper-Light Air Mattress (http://www.backpacking.net/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=52242&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1)

[gardenville]

link to the specific thread on TLB : Hyper-Light Air Mattress (http://www.backpacking.net/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=52242&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1)

Amazing how you can learn something new everyday. Thanks Hog On Ice.

[steve hiker]

Thanks for the response Gardenville. That answers my questions exactly (I think). I do a lot of winter hiking, so if this works I'll be able to leave the heavier pads at home (I normally carry 2 in winter) and knock at least a pound off my pack weight. Shaving ounces is absolutely essential in winter, since pack weight can go through the stratosphere if you're not carefull.

I ordered the poly tubes from the guy you recommended in San Antonio, Michael Joseph of Clowning Around, P.O. Box 691181, San Antonio, TX 78269 PH:210-696-0064, FAX: 210-696-0992. The down came from Thru-Hiker.

[Kerosene]

Found this seemlingly outdated Australian website selling something similar to the reusable inflatable tube mattress: http://www.permaflate.com/camp.htm