AT in Winter

[DirtBagger]

I was wondering how many people have done a thru in Winter - or at least a decent attempt. Like, if someone started a SOBO right now and made it to Springer by January or February - that would be super tough - but, what a sweet ride it would be. Top of the dog-pile for sure.

Is there a journal of a winter sobo or nobo somewhere?

[Lone Wolf]

i've met quite a few winter hikers here in damascus going in both directions. they ain't the types that do journaling

[Darwin again]

That's because it's too cold to journal.
No kidding.

[Blissful]

We met hikers a few years back who were doing it through the winter SOBO. They were very well prepared with gear, attitude, etc. - which is the biggest thing.

[OldStormcrow]

I've hiked the whole bottom third of the A.T. in the winter....mostly solo. I would love to do it all the way to Maine, but have heard that you can't hike the White Mountains when the huts are closed because there's no camping allowed up there. I met a through hiker (SOBO) from England near Roan Mountain in a deep snow one year.....had to give him some MRE food, gorp and Irish whiskey 'cause he was totally out of food.

[Gray Blazer]

I've hiked the whole bottom third of the A.T. in the winter....mostly solo. I would love to do it all the way to Maine, but have heard that you can't hike the White Mountains when the huts are closed because there's no camping allowed up there. I met a through hiker (SOBO) from England near Roan Mountain in a deep snow one year.....had to give him some MRE food, gorp and Irish whiskey 'cause he was totally out of food.
You've got some great pics in your gallery. Makes me want to try the Art Loeb Trail

[Alligator]

I've hiked the whole bottom third of the A.T. in the winter....mostly solo. I would love to do it all the way to Maine, but have heard that you can't hike the White Mountains when the huts are closed because there's no camping allowed up there. I met a through hiker (SOBO) from England near Roan Mountain in a deep snow one year.....had to give him some MRE food, gorp and Irish whiskey 'cause he was totally out of food.I'm pretty sure you can camp above treeline on snowpack in the Whites. The White Mountain guidebook has all the regs in it.

[Colter]

i've met quite a few winter hikers here in damascus going in both directions. they ain't the types that do journaling

Scott of the Antarctic and Roald Amundsen kept journals.

[Snowleopard]

I'm pretty sure you can camp above treeline on snowpack in the Whites. The White Mountain guidebook has all the regs in it.
Yes, if the trees are less than 8' there must be 2' of snow. http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/recreation/camping/backcountry_rules_2008-09.pdf
However, you should be aware of how bad the weather gets above treeline. In bad weather, conditions above treeline in the White Mountains are not survivable. Unless you are experienced and equipped, you really should drop below treeline to camp in winter.

When traveling in the Whites above treeline in winter, you should be aware at all times of where the bailout routes are. One Canadian couple got stuck last winter on Mt. Washington in an emergency shelter for several days. They knew where the bailout route was, they had only a short distance to get to the trail, but were unable to travel 1/4 mile upwind to get to it.

[Alligator]

Yes, if the trees are less than 8' there must be 2' of snow. http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/recreation/camping/backcountry_rules_2008-09.pdf
However, you should be aware of how bad the weather gets above treeline. In bad weather, conditions above treeline in the White Mountains are not survivable. Unless you are experienced and equipped, you really should drop below treeline to camp in winter.

When traveling in the Whites above treeline in winter, you should be aware at all times of where the bailout routes are. One Canadian couple got stuck last winter on Mt. Washington in an emergency shelter for several days. They knew where the bailout route was, they had only a short distance to get to the trail, but were unable to travel 1/4 mile upwind to get to it.Sure, be safe, be prepared, all that jazz. Just pointing out that Oldstormcrow can realize his dream if he so chooses:).

[Snowleopard]

Sure, be safe, be prepared, all that jazz. Just pointing out that Oldstormcrow can realize his dream if he so chooses:).
Absolutely, it's doable, even fun. It's best to go in a group for the above treeline part of the presidentials, and best of all wait for a spell of good weather for the presidentials. Spring after the snow has started to melt may actually be harder with rotten melting snow.

[Bare Bear]

Hiking and camping in winter is a great change of pace from the norm but I do suggest crampons as essential at times. Twice I have gotten injured due to not following that advice. Snow travel is nice because it is actually dry as opposed to rainy spring or colder fall hiking at times.

[Rambler]

Many winter thru-hikers have already started in Maine. Clear cold winter's day with snow on the ground in the White Mountains....hard to beat!

November: http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1071513198045831896VONiBV

December: http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1228166336045831896VAxoRK

[neighbor dave]

winter on the A.T.
note the height of the blaze and the low snow laden branches.
hiking it in real winter as a thru-hiker, without slack packing would be a very big undertaking, but can be done with a boatload of determination
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15365&catid=member&orderby=title&direction=ASC&imageuser=4327&cutoffdate=-1

[Snowleopard]

Great photos neighbor dave! I like this one:http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15363&c=member&orderby=title&direction=ASC&imageuser=4327&cutoffdate=-1

[Wolf - 23000]

I've section hiked the entire AT in the winter. The only months that counted were Dec, Jan and Feb. The hardest state for me was VT and upper NH. Just my .02

Wolf

[bronconite]

When you're above the treeline and the ground is covered in snow, how do you stay on the trail?

[Snowleopard]

When you're above the treeline and the ground is covered in snow, how do you stay on the trail?
Cairns, GPS, map and compass and sometimes you lose the trail.
The harder question is, how do you stay on the trail below tree line when the blazes are covered in snow? And, how do you keep from getting whacked in the face by branches that are normally 8' off the ground when on 5' of snow.

[OldStormcrow]

Cairns, GPS, map and compass and sometimes you lose the trail.
The harder question is, how do you stay on the trail below tree line when the blazes are covered in snow? And, how do you keep from getting whacked in the face by branches that are normally 8' off the ground when on 5' of snow.
The drifts in the Smokies are sometimes deep enough to obscure the white blazes on trees and rocks. That, along with wet snow sticking to the trunks of trees can be a problem. The trails in the Smokies are so well graded that you don't really need the blazes, though. Sometimes you have to use a hiking stick to whack the snow-laden boughs in front of you to get them high enough to walk under. I'll have to plan me a winter trip to the Whites sometime and camp below tree line...barely.

[Just a Hiker]

I've section hiked the entire AT in the winter. The only months that counted were Dec, Jan and Feb. The hardest state for me was VT and upper NH. Just my .02

Wolf

I Hiked Vermont in the Winter and it was very difficult for me as well. I kept losing the trail in some areas.......very frustrating and time consuming.

[neighbor dave]

I've section hiked the entire AT in the winter. The only months that counted were Dec, Jan and Feb. The hardest state for me was VT and upper NH. Just my .02

Wolf

do you have an online journal or a photo journal of your hike, i think i' be a great read?

[sasquatch2014]

One of the biggest rewards for winter hiking are the views that most of the time are nothing more than a green tunnel come out as if to give their gift up to the few and the determined to hike the trails in the winter. Just due to when my job keeps me the most busy a good deal of my section hiking takes place in the "off" months. Very rarely do you have to worry about a packed shelter. You do have to be ready to deal with a lot more hours of dark than most people care for.

[neighbor dave]

i've been winter camping and hiking for the last 35 years

[russb]

One of the biggest rewards for winter hiking are the views that most of the time are nothing more than a green tunnel come out as if to give their gift up to the few and the determined to hike the trails in the winter. Just due to when my job keeps me the most busy a good deal of my section hiking takes place in the "off" months. Very rarely do you have to worry about a packed shelter. You do have to be ready to deal with a lot more hours of dark than most people care for.

The sounds of the woods in winter is very neat too. The long nights get very long especially when out solo. I once woke up with the sun and made myself some coffee. Halfway through the cup I realized it was not the sun, but the almost full moon reflecting off all the snow lighting up the woods like it was daytime... it was 1am and I just drank some coffee.

[Tipi Walter]

That's because it's too cold to journal.
No kidding.

A misnomer. I do a lot of journaling sitting in my tent during the winter. Here's the secret: use a candle stub atop a book or something on your sleeping bag, you're mostly covered underneath, sitting up, and use the headlamp to write by and the candle to keep your fingers warm. Works great and you can write all night.


When you're above the treeline and the ground is covered in snow, how do you stay on the trail?

There's blowdowns and then there's snowdowns: trying to walk a trail in deep snow with the normally high brush(like rhodo and pines)all bending over onto the trail. Makes following the trail impossible and causes some winter thruhikers to turn around. What I call a Reach Around. Blowdowns, slowdowns, throwdowns(a blowdown that causes blood loss), and reach arounds(where the trail gets so bad you just gotta turn back). And then there's snowdowns.

[Blue Jay]

There's one guy who's done it something like 8 times. I won't mention his name as he lurks here and does not want to be talked about. He's a great guy and very hardcore. I hiked south from North Adams last year in March, not really even real winter and froze almost literally. I have great respect for LD winter hikers. It's one thing to stay out for a few days or even a week, but after that the cold and extra weight wears on you.

[Colter]

Regardless of what's theoretically possible or what's been done, very, very few hikers will find thru-hiking the AT in the north in the winter enjoyable. And I think that's putting it mildly.

[Tipi Walter]

Regardless of what's theoretically possible or what's been done, very, very few hikers will find thru-hiking the AT in the north in the winter enjoyable. And I think that's putting it mildly.

I do alot of winter backpacking but do it in TN/NC where the winter's can get cold but the snow levels rarely reach disturbing depths. Deepest I saw it recently was in January 2009 with 20-24 inch ridge drifts causing me to take 3 times longer to walk. Two hours to go 1.5 miles? Crazy. And last January/February was cold too at around -10F. Let's get ready, boys!

You guys in Maine and New Hampshire have to deal with a whole other beast, but like Blue Jay said, I bet there's a few hardy types who go out and stay out for weeks at a time up thar in the big white north. Down here we don't worry about snowshoes or crampons, so how do the serious guys deal with constant deep snow and very low temps on a long term backpacking trip?

Shovel? Snowshoes? Ice Axe? How long does it take to walk 7 or 10 miles in a pair of snowshoes, with a 50lb plus pack?

[neighbor dave]

I do alot of winter backpacking but do it in TN/NC where the winter's can get cold but the snow levels rarely reach disturbing depths. Deepest I saw it recently was in January 2009 with 20-24 inch ridge drifts causing me to take 3 times longer to walk. Two hours to go 1.5 miles? Crazy. And last January/February was cold too at around -10F. Let's get ready, boys!

You guys in Maine and New Hampshire have to deal with a whole other beast, but like Blue Jay said, I bet there's a few hardy types who go out and stay out for weeks at a time up thar in the big white north. Down here we don't worry about snowshoes or crampons, so how do the serious guys deal with constant deep snow and very low temps on a long term backpacking trip?

Shovel? Snowshoes? Ice Axe? How long does it take to walk 7 or 10 miles in a pair of snowshoes, with a 50lb plus pack?

1 mile an hour at best, depending on terrain and snow depths and conditions down to 1/4 mile an hour, add in trail finding, and it aint easy.
one can and will get soaked to the bone in certain conditions with low snowladen branches, stuff freezes at night.
many sections of the trail are rarely broke out leaving one with 4 to 5 foot deep snow,add that to steep sections and it can be excruciatingly slow going

[neighbor dave]

here's a photo of the long trail inbetween abraham and ellen.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15362&catid=681

[Old Hillwalker]

Here are some pictures of the AT on Smarts Mtn, NH. The blaze is seven feet from the ground. I know because I painted it. The other is the Smart's Fire Warden Cabin.

http://thumb7.webshots.net/t/73/173/6/95/39/2554695390063988367drYFmD_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2554695390063988367drYFmD)

http://thumb7.webshots.net/t/58/658/8/0/42/2994800420063988367OHiNpV_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2994800420063988367OHiNpV)

http://thumb7.webshots.net/t/63/663/4/23/97/2767423970063988367zwWMhO_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2767423970063988367zwWMhO)

[sasquatch2014]

Yeah almost forgot if there is enough snow there aren't any rocks.:D

[Snowleopard]

I do alot of winter backpacking but do it in TN/NC where the winter's can get cold but the snow levels rarely reach disturbing depths. Deepest I saw it recently was in January 2009 with 20-24 inch ridge drifts causing me to take 3 times longer to walk. Two hours to go 1.5 miles? Crazy. And last January/February was cold too at around -10F. Let's get ready, boys!

You guys in Maine and New Hampshire have to deal with a whole other beast, but like Blue Jay said, I bet there's a few hardy types who go out and stay out for weeks at a time up thar in the big white north. Down here we don't worry about snowshoes or crampons, so how do the serious guys deal with constant deep snow and very low temps on a long term backpacking trip?

Shovel? Snowshoes? Ice Axe? How long does it take to walk 7 or 10 miles in a pair of snowshoes, with a 50lb plus pack?
In snowy relatively flat terrain, some people load their gear on a sled. Further north (Quebec, Maine), there is an approach to winter camping that uses canvas wall tents, wood stoves, sleds and sometimes dogs. The AT is too heavily used for this kind of camping (too much wood cutting). You can pull on snowshoes or xc skis.

South of NH on the AT, I don't think you need ice axe or real crampons, but snowshoes or skis are usually needed and instep crampons or microspikes are often useful. In the White Mts (NH), Adirondacks or higher VT mountains, ice axe (and knowledge of how to use it) and real crampons are sometimes necessary.
An important skill that TipiWalter probably already knows is how to manage your layers so that you don't sweat and don't get chilled. Above treeline (windy face masks and goggles or tunnel hoods are needed to avoid freezing your face; you have to avoid bare skin.
In Northern VT, NH, ME and the Adirondacks it gets really cold (at night, -20F common, -30F or -40F happens, -50F rarely).
Long trips in these conditions? Not many people do that; I don't.

[Blissful]

Nice pictures but definitely not for me. I'm not a winter person anyway. Brr. :)

[Tipi Walter]

In snowy relatively flat terrain, some people load their gear on a sled. Further north (Quebec, Maine), there is an approach to winter camping that uses canvas wall tents, wood stoves, sleds and sometimes dogs. The AT is too heavily used for this kind of camping (too much wood cutting). You can pull on snowshoes or xc skis.

South of NH on the AT, I don't think you need ice axe or real crampons, but snowshoes or skis are usually needed and instep crampons or microspikes are often useful. In the White Mts (NH), Adirondacks or higher VT mountains, ice axe (and knowledge of how to use it) and real crampons are sometimes necessary.
An important skill that TipiWalter probably already knows is how to manage your layers so that you don't sweat and don't get chilled. Above treeline (windy face masks and goggles or tunnel hoods are needed to avoid freezing your face; you have to avoid bare skin.
In Northern VT, NH, ME and the Adirondacks it gets really cold (at night, -20F common, -30F or -40F happens, -50F rarely).
Long trips in these conditions? Not many people do that; I don't.

This reminds me of all the times I've sweated postholing up a mountain with a full pack on my back. Saturated, but too lazy and undisciplined to strip off the layers at the bottom first. Big mistake. And when you mention rough conditions and not many people doing it, I think of:
http://www.halfassexpeditions.com/new.html

[Snowleopard]

This reminds me of all the times I've sweated postholing up a mountain with a full pack on my back. Saturated, but too lazy and undisciplined to strip off the layers at the bottom first. Big mistake. And when you mention rough conditions and not many people doing it, I think of:
http://www.halfassexpeditions.com/new.html

I've read that website, a fun read.

Here are some links to more of the snowshoe, sled, stove camping:
http://www.northwoodsways.com/index.html
and the book, Snow Walker's Companion, by the Conovers.
http://www.amazon.com/Snow-Walkers-Companion-Winter-Camping/dp/0976031337
This is mostly based on the technologies of the Indians of the northeast US and Canada, and is really better suited to northern Maine and Quebec than to the White Mountains, but it's really fun to read.

[Wolf - 23000]

When you're above the treeline and the ground is covered in snow, how do you stay on the trail?

The only really hard places were the Northern states around northern part of MASS, VT, NH, ME . I've hiked the trail multiply times before so I had a general idea that way the trail went. I can't say I stayed on the trail total but I did the best I could. Many times I did get off route due to blow-downs or difficult finding the trail but no rides.

NH surprising enough was not that hard staying on the trail going through the whites. The only place I remember having difficulty was North of Rt 2 over to ME 26. That was extremely difficult.

Hiking through ME, I did break down a bit. I had limited amount of time so I planned food catches for myself at the road crossings and recorded the location with a GPS. It really helped out A LOT!

Wolf

[Wolf - 23000]

do you have an online journal or a photo journal of your hike, i think i' be a great read?

Sorry, I didn't. When I did most of my winter hiking it was before I online journals were put out like they are now. When I did the state of Maine in 2005, I did even think of an online. When I was out there, there were a few times the only thing I could think about was staying alive. :)

Wolf

[sasquatch2014]

In snowy relatively flat terrain, some people load their gear on a sled. Further north (Quebec, Maine), there is an approach to winter camping that uses canvas wall tents, wood stoves, sleds and sometimes dogs. The AT is too heavily used for this kind of camping (too much wood cutting). You can pull on snowshoes or xc skis.

South of NH on the AT, I don't think you need ice axe or real crampons, but snowshoes or skis are usually needed and instep crampons or microspikes are often useful. In the White Mts (NH), Adirondacks or higher VT mountains, ice axe (and knowledge of how to use it) and real crampons are sometimes necessary.
An important skill that TipiWalter probably already knows is how to manage your layers so that you don't sweat and don't get chilled. Above treeline (windy face masks and goggles or tunnel hoods are needed to avoid freezing your face; you have to avoid bare skin.
In Northern VT, NH, ME and the Adirondacks it gets really cold (at night, -20F common, -30F or -40F happens, -50F rarely).
Long trips in these conditions? Not many people do that; I don't.

I know that you are talking in general and for the most part I agree with you on the need for Crampons down in the southern NE area even in to NY but there are the times that arise when they are needed. Most of the time down here microspikes are fine but this last year was a bad year for ice storms.

During a short trip in Harriman SP just south of Bear Mt the ice was so thick that the would world looked like it had been dipped in crystal. I could not get a grip for anything with the Yak Tracks that I often use. The only one who wasn't having too tough of a time was the one with real crampons. We even decided to call it short as there were just a few too many close calls on exposed areas that in good weather you wouldn't even think about but in these conditions if you went down you were going to slide a long way while bouncing off things like rocks and trees. I think we had between 1/4 to 1/2" of ice on all surfaces.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/3/7/5/0/dscf2011_thumb.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=30685&catid=member&imageuser=13750)

[Snowleopard]

I know that you are talking in general and for the most part I agree with you on the need for Crampons down in the southern NE area even in to NY but there are the times that arise when they are needed. Most of the time down here microspikes are fine but this last year was a bad year for ice storms.

During a short trip in Harriman SP just south of Bear Mt the ice was so thick that the would world looked like it had been dipped in crystal. I could not get a grip for anything with the Yak Tracks that I often use. The only one who wasn't having too tough of a time was the one with real crampons. We even decided to call it short as there were just a few too many close calls on exposed areas that in good weather you wouldn't even think about but in these conditions if you went down you were going to slide a long way while bouncing off things like rocks and trees. I think we had between 1/4 to 1/2" of ice on all surfaces.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/3/7/5/0/dscf2011_thumb.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=30685&catid=member&imageuser=13750)
We were ground zero for the December ice storm, about 1.5" of ice here. The only reason I didn't need real crampons and ice axe to walk my driveway is that it is flat. I think it hit NW Connecticut and the Berkshires also. Where it was bad, being in the woods at all was dangerous from all the hanging broken limbs. You could hear the trees breaking all night. I tried loading a picture of it but can't.

A steep trail after that storm would have been difficult and dangerous. Crampons, ice axe and ropes would have been useful.

[Frog]

Check out Red Dane on trail journals. She started in January but I don't remember the year.

[truckindust]

Hey, my son, 18 is out hiking SOBO. They are at DWG today. His buddy may leave the trail soon where it will be just him. Likely he'll be home by Dec. 31-Jan. 15th. Anything he should know about hiking N.C./Tenn/GA at that time. We live in Georgia and he's hiked Pisgah in Feb or March but not like this nor alone.