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I_think_I_can
08-06-2004, 11:47
:confused: Is the filter really exponentially better than the tablets?? I don't really want to spend the extra fifty dollars if the tablets are going to be just as good, but I don't know if thru hiking changes the effectiveness. Any advice would be welcome...

Erin

MOWGLI
08-06-2004, 11:57
:confused: Is the filter really exponentially better than the tablets?? I don't really want to spend the extra fifty dollars if the tablets are going to be just as good, but I don't know if thru hiking changes the effectiveness. Any advice would be welcome...

Erin

There is a 3rd, cheaper way to go. That is with Polar Pur, an iodine solution system that costs less tan $15, and will last an entire thru-hike. I used it in 2000 for more than 2000 miles on my thru-hike.

Before deciding to use iodine to treat your water for 5-7 months, I would check with your doctor first.

The Eleven
08-06-2004, 12:07
Erin, my experience with water treatment is this: several days of backpacking I usually just bring Aqua tabs (like iodine treatment) & (boil water in camp from stream). Keeps weight and bulkiness down. Unless I am in an area with high beaver/farm concentration (Vermont, Mahoosac Range NH, etc), then I bring a filter. I am a section hiker, so I am not out there no longer than 7-10 days. If I ever had the chance to spend months on end on the trail, I would lug the filter, or just mail it ahead from post offices for those high concentration areas. Otherwise, I haven't had anything bad come from drinking the water with Aqua tabs and if I see a very clean spring, I drink it straight. With the after taste of iodine(which I use to use till I was told about other options), I would put a little tang or punch powder in my water bottles to flavor it up. Hope that helps. Happy Trails! Steve (Little Bear 2) in CT

sgtjinx
08-06-2004, 12:07
:confused: Is the filter really exponentially better than the tablets?? I don't really want to spend the extra fifty dollars if the tablets are going to be just as good, but I don't know if thru hiking changes the effectiveness. Any advice would be welcome...

Erin
I have used iodine in the Army. It does kill all the nasties in the water, but it doesn't clean the water. So you end up drinking dirty water, with no germs and other nasties in it. I use a Sweetwater water filter, cleans and kills the germs in the water.

SGT Rock
08-06-2004, 12:37
Iodine even tastes good.

johnny quest
08-06-2004, 12:51
iodine tastes good?!?!?!?!

you been in the field too long rock!

Mags
08-06-2004, 12:59
re: Polar Pur

Polar Pur has been my treatment of choice for 2 LT hikes, the AT and the PCT. Cheap, reliable, no fuss. I should also mention do not treat all my water, so for my style it works great.

On my upcoming Colorado Trail hike, will be experimenting with MP-1 tabs by Katadyn. They are essenetiall the tab form of Aqua Mira. 10 tabs weigh .125 oz! Used one on a Pike's Peak trip and they work a bit like Alkaselzter. No aftertase and supposedly more effective than iodine.

Give a follow-up when I get back from the CT. (Start Aug 21st)

SGT Rock
08-06-2004, 13:04
iodine tastes good?!?!?!?!

you been in the field too long rock!

The way I look at it I haven't been in the field enough. :datz

TREE-HUGGER
08-06-2004, 13:36
Hey I think you have got some pretty good advice from the above. Steve Keri hit it really well on most points. I have come to the conclusion that it is all personal prefernce. They all work. For me I carry a filter because I dont want all of the floaties. And there are all kinds of floaties from leaves to sand to bird poop. And the other good point that was made a couple times is about how long you are out. If you are out for a few months, you end up having to use all kinds of water sources, and your chances of dipping from something kinda icky increases for sure.

sgtjinx
08-06-2004, 13:50
I forgot one more thing. A filter will clean out fish pee out of the water!:banana

I_think_I_can
08-06-2004, 14:09
Thanks guys! I Think I'll end up using a combo. I'll be going with my bf, so I think one of us can have a filter, and the other iodine tabs and share. Thanks again for all the advice.

Erin

Kerosene
08-06-2004, 14:21
I think I can: You might look into the Aqua Mira treatment also. More expensive that iodine, but no aftertaste or discoloration.

SalParadise
08-06-2004, 15:07
I dumped my water filter after the first week because it was extra weight that I didn't need to carry, and I wished I'd never bought one. The streams aren't so dirty that you'll be drinking bugs and sticks and whatnot--not perfectly clear of course, but really not that bad. Just go with the treatment. Heck, after a couple months I didn't even use that very often.

jgoldsworthy
08-10-2004, 16:44
I was using a Sweetwater filter at the start of my hike this past April. By Fontana I wanted to chuck it and did send it home by Hot Springs. Same goes for another guy I was hiking with (Bear). He had the Katadyne of some sort and sent it home by Hot Springs as well. We both replaced our system with Aqua Mira. It was running about $13-14 for I believe a 30 gal supply. That was lasting me about a month.

Granted it's more expensive than Polar and iodine, but I liked it because it left no aftertaste at all. And in comparison to the filter, nothing to break or clean.

Radio Flyer
GA->Daleville, VA '04 (Soon to head out again for NH->ME)

SGT Rock
08-10-2004, 18:38
Maybe my taste buds are different, but I used Aqua Mira for a couple of weeks and I noticed an aftertaste.

sgtjinx
08-11-2004, 12:35
Maybe my taste buds are different, but I used Aqua Mira for a couple of weeks and I noticed an aftertaste.
The reason, you noticed a aftertaste with the Aqua Mira. Is because you didn't use any hot sauce in it.:D

Sgt Jinx

SGT Rock
08-11-2004, 14:04
The reason, you noticed a aftertaste with the Aqua Mira. Is because you didn't use any hot sauce in it.:D

Sgt Jinx


LOL! How come I never thought of that? :datz

sgtjinx
08-11-2004, 14:12
LOL! How come I never thought of that? :datz
You been hanging around the Officers to long. Need to get out in the field with the young pups.:D

Totally Different Subject
08-12-2004, 18:56
Good question, I Think I Can. I am planning an 05 NOBO and have been doing alot of training and thinking...about weight.

I am mixed when it comes to the water purification system. Personally, I prefer the taste of water that has been pumped. A little down the line I prefer the taste of water treated with Chlorine versus Iodine. And obviously the weight of a pump and the replacement of filters or breaking down on the trail only to buy another system are costly thoughts.

With that being said, I wonder if there is too much emphasis placed on the lightweight aspect of this hike. After all, its my understanding that the hike doesn't constitute a foot race and if so, is several ounces more really going to make that big of a difference? Especially, if its the difference in being giardia free.

Hey, I think Minnesota lake water is the most pure and best tasting throughout the country but even there, unless on big open waters we'd use polar pure.

I just would rather pack the weight than be down with some stomach ailment.

If I too far off base here?

AS it stands now, I am definitely carrying a pump.

Mags
08-12-2004, 19:28
Something I wrote before on an ultra list. May be of interest:

POST #1

Water Filters are bulky, tend to weight a bit more,
are tempermental and have a tendency to clog. On most
filters as well, you have to be sure to seperate your
in-take (dirty) from your out-out (clean hose). No
sense in filtering water if you contaminate the clean
hose with the dirty one!


Iodine has been mentioned a treatment. There is the
old standy of "Potable Aqua" tabs. Very light and easy
to use. You can use ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) to cut
down on the taste. Be sure to wait ~15 minutes before
adding or the iodine will not work!


Another option is Polar Pure. This is a crystal iodine
solution will treat ~2000 qts/ltrs of water. Unlike
tabs, it will not degrade with age. 1 Cap treats 1
qt/1 ltr of water. The weight of this bottle is 3 oz.
/85 grams.



Of course, the downside to iodine is that it does take
longer to treat water in cold environments and does
NOT treat cryproprosmodium. The chances of getting
infected with crypto in most of North America and
Western Europe is very slim, however. Someone
mentioned the effects iodine as on your health. If you
have a thyroid problem, iodine can be an issue. For
long term use, you have to A LOT of iodine to notice
any effects. For what it is worth, done 2 multi-month
hikes and a few multi-weeks hikes using iodine with no
ill effects (phyiscally..people debate my mental
state. ;-D ). I hiked with a post-doc in
pharmacology who suggests eating a yogurt every so
often to replace the "good bacteria" that iodine may
destroy.


Two newer chemical treatments to consider are Aqua
Mira and MP1 tabs by Katadyn. These are chlorine
dioxide based. (Note: there is NO cholorine in these
treatments, if you want a more detailed chemical
descrption, suggest doing a google search. Probably
explain it better than I could!) Unlike iodine they
leave little taste and WILL treat crypto.


Aqua Mira is a 2 stage chemical process, weighs 1
oz/28 grams per bottle for 2 oz/56 grams total. It is
very popular.


MP1 tabs just came out recently. There are 30 tabs per
package and seems to be much easier to use than Aqua
Mira. It is the only chemical treatment sanctioned by
the EPA as a true purifier. The weight is .125 oz/10 tabs
Treatment time is 5 min for Viruses and
Bacteria, 30 min for Crypto and Giardia, 4 h for
Crypto in worst case water (cold and dirty). I will be
trying these out soon myself as they sound very
promising. Light and easy to use!



Finally, it is debateable how important it is to treat
all water. Recent studies have shown that that cause
for most GI illness is not pathogens in the water, but
poor hygene. Sharing trail mix, using the facilities
without washing hands, etc. can cause more problems
than lack of water treatment. Not saying to NOT treat
water, but if I see a spring coming from the ground, I
chance it!


An article some of you may find interesting:
http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm

I have two more articles put out recently that further
discuss this topic. One done up in Montana I beleive
that was a very rigorous and scientfic study and
another one as well. They are bookmarked on my home
computer, so I do not have them handy. I can post them
if people are really interested. Long story short:
backcountry water is not as dangerous as people
believe (including high use areas on the Appalachian
Trail and High Sierra) Wash those hands! (Purrell is
great) Treat if you think it is neccessary. You have
to make that call.


(I do not treat my water all that often)


POST #2

As mentioned, here are the links. Alas, I could not
find the link for the Montana study (probably forgot
to bookmark it), but here is a link for the article
pertaining to it:



http://tinyurl.com/2meg3


I found this line very interesting:



"Surprisingly, the primary route of intestinal
infection on the trail is not water, Jordan said, but
rather the link between not washing hands after going
to the bathroom, and handling food. He recommends
alcohol hand gels rather than soap: ''Soap is too
impractical to use properly and alcohol gels kill
fecal bacteria more effectively"


Dr. Jordan is a researcher at Montana State
University. Besides finding that the presence of
giarida being low in such high use areas as the
Appalachian Trail, you more likely to get this nasty
bug from poor hygiene, dirty filters (yes! filters can
get you sick if you do not clean them), etc.


The article I posted earlier:
http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm


Also, there is no link, but if you can go to your
local library and read the Dec 2003 issue of
Backpacker Magazine that also had a very informative
article about water treatment.


All these articles say essentially the same thing:
- bad water is out there, but the statistics are
overblown
- you are more likely to get giardia and other nasties
from other sources (bad hygiene, sharing food, etc.
The personal anecdotes on this list and off to me
privately point to that as a possible cause)
-treat your water, but realize that this is only one
way of preventing giardia and other water borne
nasties. Proper sanitation is as important, if not
more important, than water treatment.
- a dirty filter is next to useless. You can just as
likely get giardia from a filter (if not more so) than
NOT treating water if you do not clean the filter due
to bio-film. See the article that references Dr.
Jordan's study. Putting a wet, dirty, filter in the
bag you store it in is making your own germ breeding
farm! CLEAN AND DRY OUT YOUR FILTER. Another reason
why Aqua Mira or MP1, which despite previous posts
will kill giardia and crypto, may be better than a
filter.


- If you do not treat water, small, fast moving
streams are best. The "if you can't walk across from
it, don't drink it" rule works well. Otherwise treat
the water!

There was survey on AT thru-hikers a few years back.
The people who treated there water and the people who
did not treat their water has the same percentage of
people who contracted GI illnesses. As hygeine does
decline on extended back country excursions, I suspect
this may be the variable.
I am not a scientist or a doctor. Take this advice for
what it is worth. I do have much back country
experience, however. That and a buck gets me a cup of
coffee (alas, not in Boulder, CO.). :D


Oh yes, some people mentioned how the cure is worse
than the disease. Absolutely! Flagyl, the common
anti-biotic in the States is very expensive and can
cause nausea, vomiting, etc. Most of the world (and
the US Govt as well!!!!!) uses tinidizole. Less
expensive, more effective, little to no side effects.
I suspect lobbying keeps this drug from being use in
the US. That is another discussion in itself...


Here is an excerpt from another article on the
ALDHA-West (American Long Distance Hikers Assoc)
*********
Treating Giardia
No mater how careful you are with your filter, you may
still get a Giardia infection. Before you assume it IS
Giardia, remember that it takes about 2 weeks from
drinking the cysts until you get the symptoms. Also
there are lots of other things that can cause diarrhea
and gas, like bad de-hi food, or that X-Large Pizza
with everything on it you ate at the last town. If it
keeps up for a couple of days, you probably have the
big G. Here is some info on how to get rid of it, as
well as better descriptions of the symptoms


The Standard treatment in the USA is Flagyl (generic
name metronidazole). The regimen is 250mg, 3 times a
day, for 7 days. The side effects for many folks are
quite severe and include nausea, cramping, dry mouth,
vomiting, dark urine etc. A course of Flagyl cost
about $40-$60.


The BEST treatment for Giardia is the drug Fasigyn
(generic name tinidizole). It is listed as ”THE DRUG
OF CHOICE” by the Center for Disease Control for
Giardiasis, and other intestinal parasites. The
regimen is 2 grams, once. The side effects are similar
but much less severe, and you only take it once. The
drawback is it is not FDA approved, and is not
available in the USA, but is available in Mexico. PCT
hikers usually start at the Mexican Border, and a
blister pack containing 4 doses (l6 tablets) costs
about $2 just across the border. You can get to the
border easily via public transport from San Diego and
walk across. There is no problem bringing antibiotics
back into the USA, though technically you are supposed
to have a prescription.


If you are worried that the FDA has not approved this
drug, consider this: The package I have was
manufactured by Lakeside Pharmaceuticals in NJ.
Tinidizole has been used widely through out the world
for years. According to a Navy MD I know, the Navy 5.
Marine Corps uses it to treat Giardia in the troops.
Tinidizol is a much better treatment for Giardia than
Flagyl. It works as well without the severe side
effects common to Flagyl, and with only one dose. The
bad experiences that hikers have had with Giardia
medication are due to Flagyl, not tinidizole.


Caution Do not drink alcohol 24 hours before until 48
hours after taking either of these medications



CITES:
The Medical Guide for Third World Travelers’ by
Dessery & Robin; (KW Publications - San Diego, CA
619-566-6489)
’Trekking in Nepal’ 6th edition, by Stephen Bezmchka,
MD (The Mountaineers Books - 800-553M53)



******



Me again. That is all I have to say. Wash your hands.
Clean your equipment. Only share food by pouring food
into other people's hands.


**********


Since this advice is free..take it for what it worth. :)


Seriously, hope that shows various aspects of the water treatment issue.
And I can't emhpasize enough CLEAN THOSE HANDS!!!!

SargeAT
08-20-2004, 04:32
I would recommend iodine tablets on the basis of being cheap as hell, uncloggable, irreplaceable, reliable. As an added bonus, you may be one of the lucky few that can't taste that horrible iodine! I certainly cant. :banana

copythat
09-15-2004, 00:23
There are LOTS of ways to make water potable and each one makes SOMEONE happy. In case you wanna get a pump filter, I think the Katadyn Hiker is a decent one (durable, 11 oz., relatively compact, hard to clog, easy to replace the element) and right now you can save a little cash on it ... I won't mention the company here but follow this link and it's about $10 off, and Katadyn has a rebate this fall for $10 back.

http://tinyurl.com/43c7q