View Full Version : Packs
RedRunnerJumper
10-07-2009, 01:08
What is an ideal weight for a pack? The pack itself without gear... like whats a weight I should look for? Does the weight of the pack without gear depend on whether I would be using an external or internal frame pack?
skinewmexico
10-07-2009, 01:26
Varies wildly. ZPacks Blast 32 weighs 4.3 oz. Goes up from there. I think my Jam2 is 19 oz, Mariposa Plus is 24, and my ULA Circuit is 36 oz. At one time I had a GG Murmur at 8 or 10 oz. It's like the golden age of packs.
I'd have to say the weight of the pack is going to be pretty dependent on the weight and volume of the gear that goes in it.
bigcranky
10-07-2009, 07:55
What is an ideal weight for a pack? The pack itself without gear... like whats a weight I should look for? Does the weight of the pack without hear depend on whether I would be using an external or internal frame pack?
There is no ideal pack for everything. Otherwise we'd all be carrying the same pack, and there would be peace and love and happiness all over Whiteblaze. :rolleyes:
There are plenty of good packs that weigh around 3 pounds empty, have a good internal frame, and carry everything you need for a 3-season AT hike. Something in the 3500-4000 cubic inch range is a good place to start. Examples: Gregory Z series; Osprey Exos, Atmos/Aura, and Aether/Ariel series; several ULA packs, REI Flash 65; and plenty more.
The usual advice is to buy the pack last -- that is, get all your other gear, then buy a pack which will carry it all comfortably. This is good advice.
Given the wide range in pack weights, here is another piece of advice -- Don't buy a really light or really heavy pack. A really heavy pack (heavier than 5 pounds) isn't necessary for most AT hiking. A very light pack (less than a pound) generally won't carry a beginner's gear and clothing comfortably. The extremely light packs are totally frameless -- which works well for an experienced hiker with very little gear and clothing -- but not so well for beginners.
One way to approach this question is to determine your hiking needs/goals. For instance, if your goal is weekend overnighters, the ULA Circuit at 36 oz. would be a great choice. For an extended hike, such as a long section hike or thru hike, the ULA Catalyst (43 oz.) or Granite Gear Ozone Nimbus (48 oz. without top lid) would be excellent choices. I mention these particular packs because they are the ones I have lots of personal experience with.
Does the weight of the pack without gear depend on whether I would be using an external or internal frame pack?
Not really - both designs can handle sufficient weight. Internal frame packs seem to be more common nowadays.
Skinewmexico is right on - this is the golden age of packs. There are many great options to consider. Have fun shopping!
There is no ideal pack for everything.
Amen.
.......Otherwise we'd all be carrying the same pack, and there would be peace and love and happiness all over Whiteblaze. :rolleyes:....... You're such an optomist. :rolleyes::D
A very light pack (less than a pound) generally won't carry a beginner's gear and clothing comfortably. The extremely light packs are totally frameless -- which works well for an experienced hiker with very little gear and clothing -- but not so well for beginners.BigCranky is right on with this. A very light pack usually means less support and suspension, and hence, not as comfortable to carry. The key is finding balance in the suspension and support of your pack versus the load you're carrying in the pack to achieve a comfortable carry. There are tons of good packs out there, you just have to find the one that works for you and your gear.
As someone else has already pointed out, definitely get your other gear first. A pack should be one of your last major purchases when gearing up for backpacking. Once you have all your gear together, take it with you to a reputable, serious outfitter. Avoid places such as Dick's, Sports Authority, Bass Pro Shops, Gander Mountain like the plague. They generally have no clue how to help you find the right pack for your needs or how to measure you for the right size pack. Get ideas and suggestions from a good, solid, reputable outfitter as to the right pack for you and your purpose and then try 'em on. Stuff your gear into packs and try them one at a time until you find the right pack for you. It may take a while, but you'll eventually find the right back with the right balance for you.
skinewmexico
10-07-2009, 10:42
Amen.
You're such an optomist. :rolleyes::D
Spoken like a true cynic! I think we'd all be holding hands, and singing "Kumbaya". :sun
Rain Man
10-07-2009, 13:22
What is an ideal weight for a pack?
A different, but related, question might be "What is the ideal fit and comfort for a pack?"
Because people are dynamically four-dimensional, what fits and feels good on one person may fit and feel awful on another. And it's more than merely measuring the distance from one particular vertebrate to another (or the weight of the pack).
My belly may be different from yours. Someone else's hips flare out more (or not at all). Another's shoulders slope differently. And no one's spine curves exactly the same. And so on.
I have a Gregory Reality that fits like a glove. I can hardly tell I have it on, even loaded. But it's 5 lbs without the top compartment. I have an REI UL 60, which weighs 2 lbs less and fits okay, but not the same. Which should I use of these two? I'm still not always sure!
Just don't get too hung up on weight alone, nor what works for anyone else. Boots and packs are the two things where fit and comfort are very, very important. So, as in most things, you are left with a balancing act.
Rain:sunMan
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Blissful
10-07-2009, 14:09
Get gear lined up first, pack last.
There is no ideal pack for everything. Otherwise we'd all be carrying the same pack, and there would be peace and love and happiness all over Whiteblaze. :rolleyes:
LOL, bigcranky is right here
But some recommendations - if you are looking for a pack for an AT thru-hike you can find plenty of them with the features you want, comfortable, around 3200-4000 cubes, that weigh under 4 lbs empty(some less or around 3 lbs), and that will cost less than $200
Because people are dynamically four-dimensional...
I like that Rainman - dynamically four dimensional - had to think about that one for a while
RedRunnerJumper
10-07-2009, 15:15
Alright thanks guys for the input towards packs for thru-hiking. Ima read around somemore and check out reviews n such.
Pickleodeon
10-07-2009, 16:52
this is some great advice. No matter how eager you are to get a pack, fill it, and get out there to try it, resist the urge. Take your time, do your research, and really look into the weight of your potential gear. The less it weighs, the better it will feel on your back, but it all depends on how comfortable you want to be in regards to gear. Someone on WB says, "the less gear I carry, the more I like hiking. The more gear I carry, the more I like camping." If you go super ultralight, you might not be comfortable sleeping in your choice of shelter, etc.
I started my thruhike this year with at least 40 lbs. of stuff. Yep, I'm 5'1" and female. Ouch. But, I didn't have a ton of money to spend on super expensive lightweight gear. I'm definitely not an Ultra-lighter, by any means, but I pared down a ton of stuff from my pack throughout the course of my hike and ended up carrying about 20lbs without food and water.
A lot of people change packs during their hikes too, which isnt always feasible, but if it is, it can help. Once you ditch the cold weather gear and the extra "stuff" in your pack, you can downsize to a smaller, lighter pack, and hopefully you can continue to use the smaller one even after adding the cold gear back into the pack up north. By the time you're ready to change, maybe in VA, you have your gear down to a science and you may be able to get away with a pack with less "frills", or less padding on it- ie. less weight. By that point your body is used to carrying a pack, your shoulders and hips don't hurt so much, and also, the pack you start with may not even fit by then depending on how much your body changes (weight loss, muscle gain). This also depends on whether or not your hip belt and shoulder harness are able to be taken off and switched to a different size.
Really, really, really do your research, find one that works for you, even if that means 20 stores and 50 different packs. Go to a good outfitter, with all of your gear.
Doooglas
10-07-2009, 18:43
Who cares what it weighs empty ?
I look for 40 lbs full down here.
The pack is close to ten ' empty".
I want comfort and ease of access for things.
The big name laundry sacks don't cut it for me.
Just don't get too hung up on weight alone, nor what works for anyone else. Boots and packs are the two things where fit and comfort are very, very important. So, as in most things, you are left with a balancing act.
Rain:sunMan
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This is so true. Sometimes the weight of the pack has very little to do with how it feels when you're carrying it. Last year on the PCT I started with a frameless pack and suffered because it didn't fit well and couldn't handle my heavy loads of water. The pack weighed about a pound and a half empty.
I swapped it for an internal frame pack, an Osprey Aura, that weighed 3+ pounds and suddenly everything felt way lighter than before and I had no more back pain.
Pickleodeon
10-07-2009, 22:29
I should add that my Osprey pack weighs 5 lbs empty, and my Lowe Alpine weighs maybe 4.
Even if your gear is pretty lightweight in pieces, make sure your pack can handle the load comfortably. I saw people with GoLite packs or other lightweight models, and then they had 40 lbs of stuff in them, that defeats the purpose, and makes them really uncomfortable. It's like carrying 40 lbs. but cutting your toothbrush in half to save weight.. it's doesnt make a difference at that point.
Blissful
10-07-2009, 22:36
Who cares what it weighs empty ?
I look for 40 lbs full down here.
The pack is close to ten ' empty".
I want comfort and ease of access for things.
The big name laundry sacks don't cut it for me.
Yeah I thought that too with my 7lb clunker until after two months of hiking the trail with lots of difficulty and an injury - the laundry sack pack looked and felt mighty good... :)
Actually mine was a bit more than that, a Gregory Jade, but it weighed 2 1/2 lbs.
The weight of the pack will coorelate fairly closely to the weight you will be carrying and the required volume vs comfort. Should be able to do most anything reasonable with a 3# pack.
You need to get your gear togther weigh it, stuff it and see how much volume you need.
If you can keep your base weight at 5-6# and its a 3 day hike you can get away with a 4oz Zpack.
Under 25-30# total weight and compact gear, you can do with 16oz -24 oz roughly depending.
Internal frame if you want comfort for heavier loads. Mariposa plus is a good UL pack in this catagory and good up to 30#.
For 30-40# you are going to definately want some sort of internal frame for weight transfer if you want it to be comfortable. Then you are getting into heavier packs maybe 2-3#.
Over 40# means you probably have more, bulkier and or heavier equipment, like in winter, so you need more volume, better frame, better suspension etc. Heavier still.
I dont know where the break is for an external frame pack, but maybe around 50# or so.
Personally these days I dont want any more than 25# on my back.
This ULA link will give you a good idea of weight vs volume vs load capacity.
http://www.ula-equipment.com/packoverview.asp
TwoForty
10-09-2009, 23:47
Between 17 oz and 7lbs for me, depending on what is in it. YMMV.
What is an ideal weight for a pack? The pack itself without gear... like whats a weight I should look for? Does the weight of the pack without hear depend on whether I would be using an external or internal frame pack?
This is the best pack I've ever used for lightweight hiking:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/golite_dawn_review.html
I have a large and hiked with 9 days worth of gear and food for Sept. in the Hundred Mile Wilderness. It uses a length of closed cell foam for the "frame" and carries up to about 26 lbs. (ideally) comfortably. My trip last fall took it to its limit at about 32-34 lbs.
Since I hammock I use the frame pad as a doormat or sit pad. It doubled once in a shelter when a moose got a little too close to my hammock for comfort.
I'm stumped as to why Golite discontinued it - too simple, maybe? :-?
I guess bells and whistles sell packs as well as other gear, but neither bells nor whistles are weightless ;).
Nearly Normal
10-10-2009, 07:46
You'll find out how well you've chosen gear after a few trips going up and down. You really won't know what you like until you use it.
Then, like the rest you make changes as you can afford it.
Long feet
10-11-2009, 01:59
....Under 25-30# total weight and compact gear, you can do with 16oz -24 oz roughly depending.
Internal frame if you want comfort for heavier loads. Mariposa plus is a good UL pack in this catagory and good up to 30#....Personally these days I dont want any more than 25# on my back.
This advice really speaks to my personal experience. I use a Mariposa plus. It's a really feature rich pack that carries well if you don't overload it. The trick is to keep your weight down and you won't need some 7 pound pack. Personally, my big four weight is under 6 pounds. As soon as I load up on 5 days of food, water, and winter clothes I could easily push 15-20 pounds. There is no way that I want to carry more than 25 pounds. I'm not a mule :D
88BlueGT
10-13-2009, 01:32
You need to figure out what gear your going to be using first. I went from a Jansport Big Bear 5000 (5,000cu.in. that I used to fill) down to a ULA Circuit (3,800cu.in.), just so I pretty much forced myself to pack lighter and make better decisions on what I really needed and what I didn't.
And remember, everything adds up. Don't hesitate to do small stuff to save a oz or 2 because it all adds up real quick. You'll be surprised on how low you can get your weight down to (if its that important to you that is). I wen't from 48lbs (completely packed w/ 3L of water) to 28lbs fully loaded w/ 4l of water and almost a weeks worth of food after I upgraded all my gear.
Also, it might be hard to get down to a 3,800cu.in for a thru-hike but if you could I would highly recommend the ULA Circuit (2lb 4oz). I only have like a hundred miles on my Circuit but its been absolutely great so far. Carries 30lbs very comfortably, its light, its design is great, and the price isn't bad at all either. You can also look into the Catalyst (which is a 4,600cu.in. 2.9lb), which is another great pack from ULA. Ask anyone, they always get great reviews. GL.
I just downsized my pack from a old Jansport external to a Granite Gear internal. I think that what you want to know when you ask about an 'ideal' weight is if there is a general rule to follow that will help you sort out the packs you are interested in from the ones you want to avoid. When I was searching, I used the formula that says one pound of pack weight should give you at least 1000 cubic inches of packable space. Not an exact science for sure. But if the pack is heavier then I want to see a better suspension system or some reason for the extra weight and if it is lighter then I want to be sure that it will be durable and is adequately constructed.
So far, I am very pleased with my Nimbus Meridian. The company is very helpful on the phone and traded out my hip belt for a better fit. I would say that it would be hard to find a pack that is easier to fit to anyone's size requirements. The best thing to do is to go to their web site and follow the measuring instructions and then order the pack with the correct size shoulder and hip belt. Fit is ultimately more important than weight.
stranger
10-16-2009, 07:57
When choosing a pack there are some key areas that require some thought:
- Capacity
- Fit
- Suspension
- Weight
- Compression
- Features (or lack of)
The empty weight of a pack is relevant, but only if the other criteria is met. Meaning, you can have a nice light pack that carries like crap, or doesn't fit properly, so it becomes useless.
I fit packs professionally for 9 years and I would recommend, just like shoes, to focus on comfort first and foremost, and what determines comfort is the following:
- Fit
- Suspension
- Weight of the pack when full
- Proper application of the pack
Packs, like shoes, come in sizes, and people will tell you to make sure you are fit properly - this is fairly poor advice because how would you know if you are fit properly? You cannot measure you own torso, and your friend won't be able to either, this is much more complex that is sounds. So all you can do is try to get the best fit possible, get to a well known outfitter that is knows for pack fitting. Also, with high end packs, you can usually swap out the shoulder harness and hipbelts, so if you are tall and thin or short and fat, this becomes quite relevant. Generally, a medium pack with come with medium components.
When you put a pack on your back and tighten up the hipbelt, that pack starts to "stand" on the hipbones. Your suspension system (foam, stays, rods, etc) will determine how well that pack stands on your hips. If the packs is frameless, it will start to collapse and put weight on your shoulders, if the pack has a good suspension, it will stand on the hips and leave your shoulders relatively free from work. The better the suspension, the heavier the suspension, the less overall weight your carry, the less suspension you will need, hence a lighter suspension.
Often hikers think about only the weight of a pack, this is a mistake in my opinion. If you are carrying 30lbs in a Vapor Trail with just a plastic framesheet, your total weight will be 32lbs and you will be carrying much of that weight on your shoulders, which fatigue easy compared to your legs. The same amount of weight in an Aether 60 will carry much more to the hips and lumbar, but your total weight would be closer to 34lbs, however you would have much less weight on your shoulders. So it's not just about weight, although it does need to be considered. There are many good packs out there around 60 liters that carry great, weigh in the 3-3.5lb range and have decent suspensions and fit options (Granite Gear, Osprey, Gregory, ULA and good places to start).
Along with fit, application is just as important. There is a correct way to put on a pack, and generally speaking most people, most thru-hikers, don't know how to do this from what I've seen over the years. The most common problem is wearing the pack too low (usually a male problem) and keeping your stabilizer straps at fixed tensions. Before putting on the pack, make sure all your straps are loose (hipbelt, hipbelt stabilizers, shoulder harness, should strap stabilizers, sternum strap). Once the shoulder harness is snug and the hipbelt is tight, then lightly tension the stabilizer straps and sternum strap. Use the shoulder straps to get the hipbelt at the right height, as opposed to lifting up the pack with the hipbelt, make sure the hipbelt is on your hips, that it doesn't interfere with your legs when high-stepping or sitting down. Leaving the stabilizer straps fixed means your pack won't work properly.
I'm a big compression advocate, packs work best full with nothing attached outside, this is not debatable. No top end pack company will advocate strapping crap all over the outside of a pack - but they will give hikers the option because consumers want options and all pack companies are in the business of selling products first and foremost... However, the reality is when we leave town our pack is busting and when we arrive it has alot of extra room, being able to compress your pack down helps keep the pack working properly as your food bag shrinks or when you switch out to your summer setup.
On features... well the more features you have the heavier the pack will be, the heaviest thing on a pack (other than the suspension) is those nice, fat #10 YKK zippers, and they leak something fierce as well. Pockets, not a good idea, they leak and are not needed (wanted perhaps, but not needed), they also mean more stitching, another zipper, potential problems. Consider tossing your lid, or bonnet, extra weight and generally serves no real purpose other than making the pack look good, more and more packs are going to roll down tops which are great in my view. Cut off excess strapping and melt the edges, just don't cut too much off! Keep it simple, less is more. The less stitching and zippers a pack has, the more weather resistant (not weatherproof) it will be.
The best thing about packs is that you can usually feel the difference, if the packs feels good then it's probably good for you assuming it's a decent pack manufacturer. Just like food, don't worry about what your friend likes, worry about what you like, cause it's you that's going to be carrying the pack.
stranger, that is one of the best pack rambles i have seen i a long time.