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DirtBagger
10-15-2009, 19:39
Anyone caught in the BC with glass on their person should be strung up by triptease. We did a short walk today. It felt good to get on the trail and have some light rain and cooler temperatures. We saw where some wonderful outdoor enthusiasts broke some beer and whiskey bottles in a fire pit. There were some stout glass shards and of course the bottoms of bottles make great punji devices. Not all of their art work stayed in the pit. How fun that would be to walk out in the night to pee and get lacerted to the bone. Or see some bear limping around with a brown beer bottle bottom in his foot. Or, how great would it be to carry your dog back to the car when his pads get cut off. It really adds to the outdoor experience --- NOT!

I think glass should be banned - I'm not big on government control - but sometimes there are people that just need that kind of strict guidance to be able to function. So take their glass and hang them from a stout tree.

dmax
10-15-2009, 22:09
I dislike seeing broken glass on the trail too.

I also would hate to see a ban on glass. I've never seen Hineken Light Dark in a can. So I carry bottles, but I carry my empties back out. I've never broke one on a trail or fire ring.

drastic_quench
10-15-2009, 22:27
The problem with bans is that they have to be enforced to work, and this appears to be nearly unenforceable. Glass bans work at sporting events and concerts because everything is out in the open; it's easy to spot bottles when everyone else is drinking from plastic cups.

With backpacking, someone with authority would have to catch the offenders in the act, with the glass out of their packs.

The Old Fhart
10-15-2009, 22:34
When I went thru Shenandoah in 1998 there were signs saying glass was banned in the back country but the wayside stores were selling peanut butter and other items hikers would use in glass jars. Go figure.

Lone Wolf
10-15-2009, 22:37
bikes are banned on the AT but they are sold and rented right on the trail here in damascus. go figure

Jack Tarlin
10-15-2009, 22:45
Good point.

Trailweaver
10-15-2009, 22:45
Even if you didn't leave it, you can pack it out. . . I do whenever I can. ; 0

Jim Adams
10-15-2009, 22:57
Glass and cans are banned in the backcountry in Canadian Provincial Parks...doesn't seem to be a problem there.

geek

Rain Man
10-15-2009, 23:20
Obviously the problem you saw wasn't glass, ... it was alcohol.

Rain:sunMan

.

SassyWindsor
10-16-2009, 00:33
The top items of litter I see:

1. Cigarette Butts
2. Used Toilet Paper, cardboard, wrappers
3. Metal: Aluminum foil and Cans (food and beer- a lot of these burned)
4. Bottles (plastic and glass): mostly alcohol and non-alcohol beverages
5. Apple cores and other food items not yet gotten by the local wildlife
6. discarded (mostly useless) clothing/equipment of all sorts and sizes
7. notes/advertisements usually attached to trees or posts

Litter has/is/ and will always be an eyesore as well as a problem along any trail. Wishing it would stop is futile.

Long feet
10-16-2009, 00:51
Obviously the problem you saw wasn't glass, ... it was alcohol.

Easy there buddy. I likes me my beers. I don't want to hear about any ban on good craft beer. Bud light maybe:D

Jonnycat
10-16-2009, 01:14
We need to just ban idiots.

Doughnut
10-16-2009, 05:30
It's not the glass, it's the PEOPLE, Ban the People, and litter will stop!

Ban Automobiles and pollution is decreased, taxes drop (no road maintenance) teenage pregnancies drop, DUI/DWI are TOTALLY eliminated!

Pacific Tortuga
10-16-2009, 05:36
We need to just ban idiots.


O, that will narrow it down. Now who would be the judge's :-? ?

I'd like to see the judges and idiots list.

Sure to see some of the same names on both.

warraghiyagey
10-16-2009, 08:07
Even if you didn't leave it, you can pack it out. . . I do whenever I can. ; 0

Well said. . . . :sun:sun:sun

Jayboflavin04
10-16-2009, 09:58
I called the Sherrif one time while hiking at a local park. I was carrying around a garbage bag pickin up beer cans and garbage. And to my dismay there were some kids sitting on top of a rock dropping their beer bottles down and smashing them in a creek. Another time I took a can of spray paint from a kid who thought it was cool to spray paint the rocks. What I wanted to to is whoop his a$$!

We packed out two garbage bags of trash that day also.

toegem
10-16-2009, 10:17
Glass and cans are banned in the backcountry in Canadian Provincial Parks...doesn't seem to be a problem there.

geek

The Boundry Waters is one of the places in the US that has also a ban on glass and cans. Even with the ban there are isolated instances of cans and bottles being carried into the Boundry Waters and Provincial Parks, on occasion you'll find bottles and cans in fire pits, IMO it does cut down on the littering significantly. Could it be time for more parks in the US to establish a can and bottle ban also?

Montana AT05
10-16-2009, 11:02
"bikes are banned on the AT but they are sold and rented right on the trail here in damascus. go figure" -- Lone Wolf

Might have something to do with:

1. Virginia Creeper Trail goes through Damascus (bike trail)
2. Transamerica bike route goes through Damascus (Coast to Coast bike route, very popular with us cyclists)

Damascus isn't just a hiking town...though for me it is, since that is how I came to know it. I did 2000 miles of the transam bike route last year and hope to the East of the Mississippi part some day soon, so I will see Damascus by bike as well as by trail.

As far as bans, not a fan. We have a growing nanny state problem as is, don't need to it.

And if we ban anything from a trail, let's start with purists.

Heh, let the flames fly...

Jofish
10-16-2009, 11:18
Personally I'm all for the ban of glass. They should make it punishable by a fine too. I realize that enforcement would be virtually impossible, but the threat of a fine might deter some.

As for the nanny state comment, I'll just say this. National lands (including parks, forests, trails, etc.) need these "nanny state" laws to further prevent the decline of those natural areas. Sadly, there are a lot of people who wouldn't bother to pay attention to a "please don't litter" sign but a sign that says "littering is against the law and punishable by a $X fine" might make them think twice. I've got an uncle who is a state trooper in Massachusetts and he said the amount of trash along the side of the highway has decreased noticeably (although not completely) since they added signs with fine amounts (up to $10,000 for serious repeat offenders!).

As for state/federal government "nanny state" laws that deal with activity on private property, I'll make no comment. It would take too long and frankly should be discussed on a politics forum, not WB.

Blissful
10-16-2009, 11:39
It's not the glass, it's the PEOPLE,


uh.....yeah....

if you're gonna ban glass and cans on the trail, then you should ban carrying anything that can turn into garbage....

The only places where glass should be banned is where people are barefoot and can hurt like waterparks, pools, that kind of thing

ShelterLeopard
10-16-2009, 11:46
Anyone caught in the BC with glass on their person should be strung up by triptease. We did a short walk today. It felt good to get on the trail and have some light rain and cooler temperatures. We saw where some wonderful outdoor enthusiasts broke some beer and whiskey bottles in a fire pit. There were some stout glass shards and of course the bottoms of bottles make great punji devices. Not all of their art work stayed in the pit. How fun that would be to walk out in the night to pee and get lacerted to the bone. Or see some bear limping around with a brown beer bottle bottom in his foot. Or, how great would it be to carry your dog back to the car when his pads get cut off. It really adds to the outdoor experience --- NOT!

I think glass should be banned - I'm not big on government control - but sometimes there are people that just need that kind of strict guidance to be able to function. So take their glass and hang them from a stout tree.

At first I thought you meant eye-glasses. (Which should be banned too- they fog up every time) It's just terrible to see trash on the trail. I got my first trailname (traceless) by picking up all the trash I cam across for the last 150 miles of Maine, on a section hike. Sadly, I had a pretty big amount of trash, and the Hundred Mile Wilderness isn't even near public roads. PA (and a lot of places) is worse, because everyone seems to think it's a brilliant idea to go get drunk on the trail, or car camp and leave all their trash.

I think glass is fine at home (when we can recycle it), but when people just discard it on the trail (or anywhere), nononono.

Rain Man
10-16-2009, 12:22
... We have a growing nanny state problem as is, don't need to it....


Obviously, some adults are such big babies that they do need a full-time nanny. So, if the choice is alcohol-abuse-garbage up and down the AT, or nanny state, give me the nanny state.

Rain:sunMan

.

sheepdog
10-16-2009, 12:39
They already broke one law by littering. Do you think another law will stop them?

Montana AT05
10-16-2009, 14:21
Obviously, some adults are such big babies that they do need a full-time nanny. So, if the choice is alcohol-abuse-garbage up and down the AT, or nanny state, give me the nanny state.

Therein lies the key difference in how people view society. Some would make rules based on the least common denominator, thereby insuring an equal share of misery, some would make rules based on simply the common, thereby insuring an unequal share of blessings (I ripped off Churchill there!).

Clearly, the presence of broken glass can be a problem, but it is hardly "pandemic" and it is certainly caused not by the majority but by the few. And a ban wouldn't solve the issue it would merely create yet more nannies.

Banning glass altogether is to throw the baby out with the bath water. People "feel" good about taking action, but the result is to punish those of us who are good, not those of us who are bad.

So, say good bye to a hauling a bottle of champagne or wine to a mountain top--for that surprise proposal or that meaningful anniversary or that simple celebration of what is good.

Instead, we constrict and fetter ourselves with an increasing number of laws and regulations, stifling freedom by one well-intentioned cause after another.

Next step? Ban plastic bags, or plastic 6-pack holders (for fear of a bird getting caught up in it). Then what? What else do we ban? The list grows large and with it the "enforcement".

Enter the attorney...

The woods were once a refuge from the constraints of society, but as society moved into the woods, their guidebook in hand, their claim of a love for freedom was belied by their greater love of self-imposed shackles.

Father Dragon
10-16-2009, 14:35
The woods were once a refuge from the constraints of society, but as society moved into the woods, their guidebook in hand, their claim of a love for freedom was belied by their greater love of self-imposed shackles.

I love it. :sun :sun :sun

88BlueGT
10-16-2009, 14:49
I hate to say things like "this should be banned", etc. because I believe that everyone should be entitled to do as they please (especially when in the woods). But its really unfortunate that some people cannot be responsible and carry out their trash instead of leaving it for other people to clean up, throw stuff in the woods or break it in fire pits, etc.

In short, it would be ashame but I wouldn't complain if they did put a ban on glass on the trail. I don't bring glass anyway, way too heavy for my likings.

Lone Wolf
10-16-2009, 15:01
broken glass in a fire pit can't make the pit any uglier

sbhikes
10-16-2009, 15:51
At least glass isn't toxic. Plastic never biodegrades and it's killing the ocean. If they ban anything, it should be plastic. Of course, this would make backpacking much harder...

88BlueGT
10-17-2009, 03:38
Neither are good when seen laying on the ground in the woods. But you'll never get rid of plastic when it comes to backpacking, I don't see that ever happening lol

SassyWindsor
10-17-2009, 14:33
broken glass in a fire pit can't make the pit any uglier


I agree. Never thought of it but I'd probably rather see glass than burned cans, aluminum foil, stinking half melted plastic containers.

I could at least use the glass to cut a piece of rope to hang the person littering.:D

Blue Jay
10-17-2009, 17:12
One problem with a ban on anything is it is very very rare I see anyone who would enforce it. In my estimation, once every 8 or 900 miles at best. Even then the item banned would most likely, not be visible, unless you are a fool in the Damascus Hostel. Every place dogs are banned I see them often. Pot is illegal, I see and smell it all the time, not that I care. Bans are like building a sand wall on the beach and expecting to hold back the tide. I do like the ban on idiots, however, good luck with that.

Blue Jay
10-17-2009, 17:15
Obviously, some adults are such big babies that they do need a full-time nanny. So, if the choice is alcohol-abuse-garbage up and down the AT, or nanny state, give me the nanny state.

Rain:sunMan

.

I agree, however I just cannot get a nanny to hike with me.:banana

Doooglas
10-17-2009, 19:51
We need to just ban idiots.
Righto ! No more govt employees on the trail :eek:

Deadeye
10-17-2009, 22:45
You can't fix stupid.

weary
10-17-2009, 23:10
broken glass in a fire pit can't make the pit any uglier
No, but it can make it a lot more dangerous for those of us who from time to time take on the responsibility of cleaning them out.

No. I've never had the "legal" responsibility of cleaning others trash. But I find myself doing it often. Non sequiturs, like yours add to the problem, even though you think you are just being amusing.

Weary

weary
10-17-2009, 23:51
...Bans are like building a sand wall on the beach and expecting to hold back the tide. I do like the ban on idiots, however, good luck with that.
Not really true. Yes. Violations will always occur. How many times have you exceeded a speed limit? But to say such limits are ineffective would be absurd.

I happen to live on a road with very stringent police enforcement. I keep my cruise control at 5-miles-per-hour above the limit, and have never been stopped. Why? Because I know what I can get away with.

These days I spend most of my time building trails in the woods, maintaining trails in the woods, and encouraging both kids and adults to use these trails. And to use the trails responsibly. What can I say? Through legal bans and a bit of public education, damaging ATV use has greatly diminished. The trails themselves are remarkably clean.

All I can say is that a combination of laws and education works. Litter is mostly a problem in the parking lots and near road camping sites that automobiles can easily reach. Bans help. But they are not the only tool we need. I've argued on this site and others for years that we should abandon "leave no trace," an impossible goal, and go back to a simpler message: "Carry In, Carry Out!"

I'll comprise. Babble about "Leave no trace" as much as you want, though I've never managed to achieve same after a snow storm, or even on a rainy day.

But augment your message with something that is both possible and at least occasionally enforceable. (I'm neither congenitably, nor politically, opposed to speeding. I am extremely careful about getting $200 traffic fines, that result in $300 a year in extra annual car insurance costs that tend to be imposed as a result of every violation that I get caught doing.)

Weary

Blue Jay
10-18-2009, 10:45
Not really true. Yes. Violations will always occur. How many times have you exceeded a speed limit? But to say such limits are ineffective would be absurd.

You are seriously comparing the level of law enforcement on the trail to a public roadway?

chief
10-18-2009, 10:58
You are seriously comparing the level of law enforcement on the trail to a public roadway?
No, it was just one more opportunity to pat himself on the back!

Bearpaw
10-18-2009, 12:32
Pave the Trail!

While we're at it, we should ban all alien abductions, midget wrestlers, and penguins.

And of course let's ban all illegal drugs from the trail....

Oh wait. They're already banned. Wow, see how well that ban works!

Ridiculous discussion.

Patrickjd9
10-18-2009, 13:05
Righto ! No more govt employees on the trail :eek:
Shouldn't you be posting from the libertarian paradise of Somalia, instead of Costa Rica:-??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0

Panzer1
10-18-2009, 14:54
I agree with the outrage of finding deliberately broken glass and that there should be some kind of justice for those who deliberately break glass on the trail but I think this is one of those things where you would probable catch more innocent hikers that guilty hikers.

Panzer

Montana
10-21-2009, 13:03
I think glass should be banned - I'm not big on government control - but sometimes there are people that just need that kind of strict guidance to be able to function. So take their glass and hang them from a stout tree.

I like my beer from a glass bottle, it tastes better. I have no problem packing an empty bottle out, and I have no problem packing out other peoples trash. Nobody has the right to stop me from drinking beer the way I want, nor should they. Stop asking for more useless, unenforceable laws. Keep the government out of areas it has no need to be involved in.

ShelterLeopard
10-21-2009, 13:05
I like my beer from a glass bottle, it tastes better. I have no problem packing an empty bottle out, and I have no problem packing out other peoples trash. Nobody has the right to stop me from drinking beer the way I want, nor should they. Stop asking for more useless, unenforceable laws. Keep the government out of areas it has no need to be involved in.

Yep- I think the people who don't pack out their glass should be banned.

flemdawg1
10-21-2009, 13:13
Obviously, some adults are such big babies that they do need a full-time nanny. So, if the choice is alcohol-abuse-garbage up and down the AT, or nanny state, give me the nanny state.

Rain:sunMan

.
Give me LIBERTY!! Or give me death!



Righto ! No more govt employees on the trail :eek:

HEY! :mad:

paradoxb3
10-21-2009, 21:32
broken glass in a fire pit can't make the pit any uglier

Yea but an ugly fire pit doesnt get scattered and slice up your feet, damage tents/gear, and injure pets/wildlife does it?

But I know, I know... We're doing it all wrong anyway -- staying in/near shelters, not sleeping with food in our tents, not fording the K, and seeing it as more than "just walking." When will we learn? :-?

Lone Wolf
10-21-2009, 23:32
Yea but an ugly fire pit doesnt get scattered and slice up your feet, damage tents/gear, and injure pets/wildlife does it?

But I know, I know... We're doing it all wrong anyway -- staying in/near shelters, not sleeping with food in our tents, not fording the K, and seeing it as more than "just walking." When will we learn? :-?

yup. you're learnin'. stay at or around shelters and you can expect garbage, glass, smelly fire pits, mice, bears, etc.

Rockhound
10-22-2009, 01:27
bikes are banned on the AT but they are sold and rented right on the trail here in damascus. go figure
Um.... not the best analogy seeing as how the Virginia Creeper trail also happens to run through Damascus. As for bans, Booooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I'm all for anarchism and allowing the people to police themselves without any government control.

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2009, 02:01
Glass and cans are banned in the backcountry in Canadian Provincial Parks...doesn't seem to be a problem there.

geek


Thats because I first hand witnessed two Rangers or guys with badges inspecting coolers and handing out fines and dumping the beer!

it's licence & registration on that canoe at:

Algonquin National Park

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2009, 02:05
I posted the same thread about deliberate broken glass last year here and you & I know the best thing you can do is use a plastic shopping bag and clean it up... Its just not going to solve anything by posting it here as everyone on WB is on board, it's the kids, townies, drunks, and theives that cause this stuff on the trail.