View Full Version : Appalachian Trail Institute
sylvia_claire
10-15-2009, 21:33
A friend just told me about this class she heard about that claims to increase your chances of completing a through greatly , the Appalachian Trail Institute. I looked up the site and to me it looks like a great way to burn money($300 for four days) but I was wondering if anyone here has actually gone and what they thought about the experiance?
-sylvia
warraghiyagey
10-15-2009, 21:40
. . . and to me it looks like a great way to burn money($300 for four days)
-sylvia
agreed. . .
beakerman
10-15-2009, 23:00
agreed. . .
who are you and what have you done with warrawhateverthingy?
you actually posted something and it was pertinent to the OP!!! I am shocked!
jenpharr
10-15-2009, 23:33
I went to the ATI before my first thru-hike in 2005. I just stumbled upon it over the internet and I am so glad that I did. It is run by Warren Doyle, I didn't know who he was when I signed up, but he has hiked the trail almost 15 times now and - in my opinion - knows the trail better than anyone. The cost of the workshop is pretty cheap considering that it considers food, lodging, and info. It was so worth the money and the time. I had done some research about food, and physical prep, but Warren really helped me mentally and emotionally prepare for the trail. It was a workshop that not only helped me on the trail, but in life. I would highly recommend it. : )
and - in my opinion - knows the trail better than anyone.
:rolleyes:
Panzer
sylvia_claire
10-16-2009, 01:24
...The cost of the workshop is pretty cheap considering that it considers food, lodging, and info.
I would not consider much of that money going to food and none to lodging (it is an additional fee to park your tent in his yard).
"lodging - People can stay in our house or tent in our yard for a small additional donation Local motels/campgrounds are also available."
I am cynical about the food becase especially as a vegitarian (who doesn't like eggs or milk or common american cheeses...) and as someone who doesn't drink, I hate the flat rate no matter what you get thing cause I always get the short end of that deal
"meals - A combination of college cafiteria, home cooking and local eateries. Participants with special dietary needs can cook their own meals (kitchen privileges). "
I guess what I want to know is if people actually think the learning experiance is worth the 300 dollars?
warren doyle
10-16-2009, 01:48
Since the ATI from now on will be situated out of my home (10 miles from Damascus) rather than at Lees-McRae College, the tuition covers instruction, materials, transpo to and from the trail for the three day hikes and lodging (our 19 room home has beds for 20 although the ATI enrollment is limited to 14 folks a session). The tuition does not cover lunch and supper at a variety of local eating establishments 4 miles away, or kitchen privileges at our home for folks with special dietary needs.
I guess what I want to know is if people actually think the learning experiance is worth the 300 dollars?
You can learn most of what you need right here on WB and by taking a few practice hikes (be sure to do this) before going long distance. The annual ALDHA gathering that was held this past weekend in Gettysburg is a relatively inexpensive way to get a brain dump from many past thru-hikers (including Warren) who share different approaches and perpectives. Many of them will answer your questions here.
I went to the ATI before my first thru-hike in 2005. I just stumbled upon it over the internet and I am so glad that I did. It is run by Warren Doyle, I didn't know who he was when I signed up, but he has hiked the trail almost 15 times now and - in my opinion - knows the trail better than anyone. The cost of the workshop is pretty cheap considering that it considers food, lodging, and info. It was so worth the money and the time. I had done some research about food, and physical prep, but Warren really helped me mentally and emotionally prepare for the trail. It was a workshop that not only helped me on the trail, but in life. I would highly recommend it. : )
I'd like to point out that this is the only post by someone who has actually attended the ATI. And that Jen has had a couple of wildly successful AT hikes, in that she completed them.
IMO, the key factor in completing a hike is commitment. Going to the ATI is a significantly more serious commitment than spending a lot of time on WB, which gives the illusion of commitment without any of the pain.:rolleyes:
I'd like to point out that this is the only post by someone who has actually attended the ATI. And that Jen has had a couple of wildly successful AT hikes, in that she completed them.
IMO, the key factor in completing a hike is commitment. Going to the ATI is a significantly more serious commitment than spending a lot of time on WB, which gives the illusion of commitment without any of the pain.:rolleyes:
No need to spend a lot of time on WB. The operative phrase that Lone Wold reminds us is: "it is only walking". Someone could quickly glean the essentials of gear choices, guide books, re-supply, etc and go try it out for a couple of shakedown hikes. Yes, ATI and WB are two different approaches for sure. That is why I suggested a few practice hikes. ATI does practice hikes and so should WB followers. It's a matter of whether a person feels they need a teacher/guide or wants to do it on their own. An AT hike is on your own and, my opinion, learning on your own will make you stronger. Some folks need more encouragement and that is fine too.
Lone Wolf
10-16-2009, 07:45
A friend just told me about this class she heard about that claims to increase your chances of completing a through greatly , the Appalachian Trail Institute. I looked up the site and to me it looks like a great way to burn money($300 for four days) but I was wondering if anyone here has actually gone and what they thought about the experiance?
-sylvia
some people spend 10 times that amount on gear thinking it will get them to maine from georgia when in reality most don't make it
Isn't that a line from a Paul Simon song? "Why don't we get together and call ourselves an institute..." :rolleyes:
Before my very first section hike when I knew even less than what little I do now, I gave serious thought to attending, going so far as to try to schedule it into my time away from work. I recall sending the director a couple of emails asking about the average age of participants, etc because I didn't want to stick out. But after reading lots of threads on WB, I didn't think that I'd get much from it. The "articles" section on WB I found to be invaluable for their advice on clothes, packing, etc. And I never care much for someone telling me when to jump and how high.
But to each their own! Obviously some get a lot out of the "institute."
modiyooch
10-16-2009, 09:25
There was no ATI when I started. No WB. I did good to find reference material. I couldn't find anyone that was interested in hiking with me. Today, people have a wealth of information at their fingertips. I survived. I developed my own game plan and to this day still follow the "old school" techniques.
SawnieRobertson
10-16-2009, 09:52
If you have the money to "burn." why not? It will surely not hurt anyone who can afford to and wants to go. Warren, even at just the comparatively short talk at The Gathering, helped me about attitude and miles/day expectations. You will become expert about Warren too with some Warren stories, most of them kind of endearing. He is, after all, human and, therefore, subject to foibles of one sort or another. That, however, is not why you would go. You would enjoy the camaraderie and would very likely learn some things that would come back to help you when the going gets rough out there. If I were you, I'd jump at the chance, but, if you go, be sure to report back to us your evaluation of how helpful you have found it.--Kinnickinic
modiyooch
10-16-2009, 10:06
Even without the training, a $300 stay in the high country isn't a bad deal.
he's running a business and has the right to charge whatever he thinks is a fair price. That's the way capitalism works. In a communist country it would be free.
Panzer
modiyooch
10-16-2009, 10:30
he's running a business and has the right to charge whatever he thinks is a fair price. That's the way capitalism works. In a communist country it would be free.
Panzerwas this challenged?
......... That, however, is not why you would go. You would enjoy the camaraderie and would very likely learn some things that would come back to help you .............--Kinnickinic
Hats off to ANY former thru hiker doing something to make a few bucks on the side but.......
Isn't the entire jist of the course summarized in "Warren's AT Hiking Book" as found on this webpage? Why not just print it off and save $300 bucks?
Or even better- pay me $300 bucks and I'll be your comrade for an entire week! As an extra bonus I'll show you an alcohol stove I made out of a couple discarded soda cans!
was this challenged?
nope. and it is really not a money issue. personally, i wouldn't hang on one source's word, but utilize many, WB being one of the better sources. if you need an extra push or personal helping hand, in addition to consulting other sources, ATI type services are probably worth the time at a reasonable price point, which ATI appears to be.
Since the ATI from now on will be situated out of my home (10 miles from Damascus) rather than at Lees-McRae College, the tuition covers instruction, materials, transpo to and from the trail for the three day hikes and lodging (our 19 room home has beds for 20 although the ATI enrollment is limited to 14 folks a session). The tuition does not cover lunch and supper at a variety of local eating establishments 4 miles away, or kitchen privileges at our home for folks with special dietary needs.
My hiking partner for about 75% of my thru hike took Warren's class and loved it. I also hike parts with 2 other that had taken the class. All 3 of them completed their thru hikes and had nothing but good things to say about the class.
I met Mr. Doyle in Pa during a section hike in 05 around Dalton MA during my thru, he is a very nice guy. His hiking resume is very impressive.
One of the reasons people do not complete their thru hikes is that they are delusional about the AT experience before they hit the trail. Mr. Doyle's class will give someone a good picture of what they should expect on the AT. I say if you have the time and money learning about the AT in could help your chances of finishing a thru.
I've never met WD, so have no personal opinion, other than that he is a generally well-respected advocate for the AT and hiking. I give him kudos for finding a legitimate way to turn his passion for the trail into a source of income, and in the process helping others to find their "wings" so to speak.
Personally, I feel a formal class to teach backpacking is overkill, but others will have a different take on it.
I know from experience in years of training EMS Personnel that some folks are much more comfortable having an organized, start here, then go here, then finish here learning environment. Others are more comfortable with someone telling them - you can find everything you need here at this resource, have at it. Neither is right or wrong.
If you like organized courses, and are willing/able to pay a reasonable fee for the experience, Warren seems to be a perfectly legitimate and knowledgeable place to go. Have fun, both in class and on the trail. I'm quite sure he could probably teach me a thing or two if I attended his course.
The Weasel
10-16-2009, 11:42
Warren Doyle, who I too have never met, has as much a right to try to generate an income as do any of the others involved in the AT, including the salaried staff of the ATC who provide a lot of valuable services, including selling things to make money, as well as scrounging grants and membership fees that aren't as much as they would like.
I agree with what Lyle says. Whether Doyle's program is worth the money depends on what people find they get out of it. He's hardly the first to do such things, nor will he be the last.
TW
...I looked up the site and to me it looks like a great way to burn money($300 for four days) ...
-sylvia
I just read an article in USA TODAY this morning about how the hotel rates in New York City have dropped recently and are such a bargain at $195 - $500 per night. FOR A BED TO SLEEP IN!
Everything is relative I guess. :D
modiyooch
10-16-2009, 11:51
Warren Doyle, who I too have never met, has as much a right ...
TW
Again, no one is challenging his right.
I don't understand the logic here. It like trying to decide whether or not to buy an expensive tent. It has nothing to do with the retailer or service provider.
max patch
10-16-2009, 12:06
Its not necessary to get formal education on how to thru hike. I gave notice at work, and did all my "planning" and gear purchases at night and weekends over the next 2 weeks as I worked off my notice. Pre-internet, too.
If you feel the need to pay for a classroom experience then I suppose Mr. Doyles class is probably the best you're going to find. He has the resume to support what he doing. And his tips on how to secure free restaurant meals may just save you what you spend on tuition. Assuming, of course, you don't get hepatitis or swine flu along the way.
But if it was me, as long as Baltimore Jack, who also has quite the resume , is answering questions and writing articles about thru hiking for free, well, I'd keep that $300 hidden away in my pack and spend it on goodies as I hiked northward.
Lees-McRae college?
Thats the first time i have heard of my old college mentioned anywhere in the last 40 years!!!
.......they are delusional about the AT experience before they hit the trail.
Isn't that the only way to be?
I've never met WD, so have no personal opinion, other than that he is a generally well-respected advocate for the AT and hiking. I give him kudos for finding a legitimate way to turn his passion for the trail into a source of income, and in the process helping others to find their "wings" so to speak.
Personally, I feel a formal class to teach backpacking is overkill, but others will have a different take on it.
I know from experience in years of training EMS Personnel that some folks are much more comfortable having an organized, start here, then go here, then finish here learning environment. Others are more comfortable with someone telling them - you can find everything you need here at this resource, have at it. Neither is right or wrong.
If you like organized courses, and are willing/able to pay a reasonable fee for the experience, Warren seems to be a perfectly legitimate and knowledgeable place to go. Have fun, both in class and on the trail. I'm quite sure he could probably teach me a thing or two if I attended his course.
I'm only quoting this again because it should be read again. :) The above sums it up. No contention and just the facts. :sun
In the past, I've done intro to backpacking "classes" for the reason Lyle stated: Some people prefer a more formal, structured setting. For many people, going outside on their own is not something they want to do. So, the instruction serves a very valid and great resource for those who want it. And $300 for four-days of hands-on sessions from a very knowledgeable resource? (Warren Doyle..not that suspect Paul Mags fellow) Well, see how much a personal trainer costs for a gym. ;)
Good luck to all those who attempt the trail..no matter how they prepared.
[1] "Classes" in quotes because they are very informal. On the other end of the spectrum, here's what a local org charges for THEIR classes (http://www.womenswilderness.org/courses/division/longs-peak-ascent-0). :O (Longs is non-technical up the standard route)
bulldog49
10-16-2009, 14:41
A friend just told me about this class she heard about that claims to increase your chances of completing a through greatly , the Appalachian Trail Institute. I looked up the site and to me it looks like a great way to burn money($300 for four days) but I was wondering if anyone here has actually gone and what they thought about the experiance?
-sylvia
Operative words is "claims". :rolleyes: I agree with your assessment it's a money waster.
Lyle and Mags have it nailed... and it was mostly what I was saying... basically, different strokes ...
signed,
anti-structured Tin Man
:)
If I would of had someone to help me I could of saved way more then 300 dollars on gear I will never use.
Clyde
I actually took Warren's class in 2003. Like JenPharr, I considered it worth the $300. Of course, I did end up spending more on food, like Warren says in his post (some lunches and dinners) It's not a Hilton, just his home, but I did learn a lot. I first set foot on the AT with him just north of Damascus and did a 10 mile that day. I also met one of my hiking buddies from 2005 (Phoenix). I still haven't finished the trail, mostly due to circumstances at home. Don't take everything he says as gospel, but he does know the trail.
warren doyle
10-19-2009, 16:42
I actually took Warren's class in 2003. Like JenPharr, I considered it worth the $300. Of course, I did end up spending more on food, like Warren says in his post (some lunches and dinners) It's not a Hilton, just his home, but I did learn a lot. I first set foot on the AT with him just north of Damascus and did a 10 mile that day. I also met one of my hiking buddies from 2005 (Phoenix). I still haven't finished the trail, mostly due to circumstances at home. Don't take everything he says as gospel, but he does know the trail.
Red Hat attended the ATI when I lived in a smaller home near a poultry farm in the NC piedmont. The ATI (soon to be called AT Folk School) is now housed in a 19-room 'poorman's Biltmore' 10 miles outside Damascus, VA.