White House Landing Wilderness Camp

[Papa Bear]

I'm doing a section hike next month from Monson to Katahdin. We're thinking of stopping at While House Landing. It is described in the On-line Companion: Link to On-line Companion (http://www.aldha.org/companyn/nh-me04.pdf). Scroll to page 188. It looks like a great place.

1) Anyone ever go there? What was your impression?
2) Prices are quoted as $15 (bunk house) to $25 (single room), showers $4. Are there any add ons I should be prepared for?
3) How much is dinner? Breakfast? Just a burger? Ice cream? Beer?
4) Is the boat ride free? How much $$?

The book says ask about prices for everything before you order. This implies some have been in for surprises. Has anyone been surprised by some expensive item? What else do I need to know?

Thanks
Pb

[Lone Wolf]

I spent 3 nites there in 2000. Tented. Boat ride is free. Beer $2. Ben&Jerrys $4 if I remember correct. Big burger $5. All prices are listed on a big board in the main lodge.

[TankHiker]

I stopped at White House Landing last year, only because I was low on food after losing more than a day detouring around un-fordable streams. If I had to do it again, I would not stop there.

My biggest problem was that the owners were extremely unfriendly. The woman was okay, but the man was clearly upset to have to deal with thru-hikers. I think he may have been nicer if I had spent the night there, but I just went over for lunch and resupply. I guess I didn't know that this was really more of a hostel than a restaurant/resupply point.

The burger itself was huge, and well worth more than the $5 they charged. The boat ride over was free, although you may get scowled at and sworn at by the owner. They have a limited amount of resupply food - candy bars, ramen, etc. It is all pretty expensive. They charged me $2/min to use their cell phone, and mistakenly told me that there is no phone at Abol Bridge (there is!).

Also, although the guidebook didn't mention it, their boat service is only for a few hours of the day. It's something like 11:00am - 2:00, and 5:00-7:00 (although I don't know the exact times).

Personally, I wouldn't go back unless I absolutely had to. I don't know if the owners were just having a bad day, or if they are always that surly to their customers. There is excellent camping all around that area (especially on Nahmakanta Lake nearby). I would camp nearby instead.

But that's just my opinion.

-Tank

[java]

We spent a night at White House Landing in 2001. Must say we spent a lot of money, but it was our last stop on the trail, so we lived it up (beer, pizza, burgers, ice cream etc.):)
You can't expect things to be inexpensive when they are sooo far from town. I remember being surprised at how much food they did have for resupply.
The owners were nice and treated us with respect. I can imagine that overnight guests (hikers included) may get better service than folks who just swing by for lunch or snacks. It takes some time out of their busy days to drive the boat across the lake. Running a business that far from civilization cannot be easy.
I do remember that when we went through tenting was not allowed, and the phone was for dire emergencies only. I don't know if this has changed.
I will stop there again this year when I do the wilderness, it was a great place to hang out with fellow NOBOS and regroup before the last big push to Baxter.

-java

PS The phone at Abol is new. I was there last spring (2003) and there wasn't one, so they probably weren't aware one had been put in.

[nathan_]

i spentonenight therein 2002 it was kind of expensive butwas a welcome relief after 5 days of rain

nathan
gorham nh ----> katahdin 02
game05

[aaronthebugbuffet]

A great place to stop and spend the night, but not a great place to try and get in and out of if you are in a hurry. i spent the night there this year and enjoyed it. Like one of the previous posts said I found the male owner to be a little grumpy, but the lady was very friendly. The man did warm up to me later though when he found out i was staying the night and saw how much food I was going to consume.$$$$ Be sure to get there before dark, there are a lot of rocks in the lake and they won't come over at night. Be prepared to wait, you are at their mercy for rides across the lake and don't expect a hug when you get there. To address the price questions here are some of the prices i remember:the bunk is now $20 you get a shower, but they charge you for a towel, the loaded burger was about $7, cokes are $1, beer was more expensive than i care to remember, ayce b-fast was about $7, the boat ride was free.

[LEGS]

I Stopped By There 2years Ago And Thought It Was Great, People Were Friendly And Helpful. Had Excellent Burger And Drinks. Beer 2.00,burger 5.00 , Most Resupply Items Were Reasonably Priced. Just Remember Everything Is Trucked In 10 Miles About Once A Week. Would Recommend It As A Good Stop Anytime, Just Don't Get Impatient If You Have To Wait For A Bit On The Boat To Get There, Relax And Enjoy The Scenery.

[Bluebearee]

I went there two years ago on my thru- just for lunch. I hadn't considered doing this, but my brother hiking the Wilderness with me insisted we experience this since a SOBO in Vermont highly recommended it. Bill seemed fine with us just having lunch and didn't even ask if we were staying. He was friendly, cooked up the burger, I think it was ~ $5 or so. The Buds weren't outrageous, given where you are. Maybe $2.50 I think, not even $3. They only have cell service out there on the lake, and yes they charge for it. This isn't Main Street Harper's Ferry folks, it's in the woods, off the beaten track. I felt the prices were fair for what we got. It was a nice diversion in the middle of the day. People don't hurry much up here in Maine, by that point in your hike, you should follow suit.

[Mountain Dew]

I got to the boat dock within the required time and sounded the fog horn like is required. After busting my ass to get there on a 22 mile day to beat the rain I was happy. I sounded the fog horn and proceeded to wait for an hour for a ride accross. Thirty minutes into my wait it started raining which wasn't pleasant when the temp is in the 50's. Like Tank said..... He was then grumpy like I had kicked his dog. The bunkhouse was warm and the food is great. I didn't care about the price because I knew it was a long haul to get it there......PLUS I didn't HAVE to buy it if I hated the prices so much right ? Overall....I suggest going there if you need to dry out or need resupply.

[Rambler]

Having lived in New England most of my life, some of the nicest people I know are grumpy. Remember, sweat smelling thru-hikers might not be their favorite visitors. http://www.mainerec.com/ware.shtml
Have I lived in New Englaqnd all my life? Not yet.

[A-Train]

Although I wasn't trying to have a "traditional" thru-hike, I thought it was more approrpiate to do the 100 mile wilderness the ole' fashioned way, without resupply. (I know someone may chime in and say the wilderness was lined with hunting camps in Earl's day). I thought going 100 miles without resupply was a last final little challenge to the trip. Sure I was REAL low on food by the time I got to the end, but the donuts at the Abol Store never tasted better.

The WHL sounds like a good place if what you need is a dry place to sleep and food, but at the end of my hike I was certainly ready to stop paying excess amounts for town luxuries.

[Crash! Bang!]

Remember, sweat smelling thru-hikers might not be their favorite visitors.
its just about their ONLY visitors, so they better cheer up about it!:D

[The Solemates]

WHL was one of my favorite places on the entire AT. That place is what I dream of owning/running. We didnt stay b/c we didnt want to spend the money, but we definitely hit up the 1lb burger and spent most of the afternoon chatting with the owners, who are awesome.

Boat Ride: free
1 LB Burger: $7 (might as well get 2 of them)
Feel of the place: priceless

[Skeemer]

Well, I thought I was the only one the owner had an attitude with. When I got to where the boat picks you up it was the middle of a mild August day, I made the mistake of sounding the air horn for several seconds. When he picked me up, man did I get my ass chewed out but good for sounding the horn too long plus a big lecture about how much the horn cost. :mad: I stayed overnight and spent a lot of money...hamburger, pizza, bunk, breakfast, etc. The woman was so nice and I felt bad about the horn so I left a nice tip in the morning when I settled up. It was with the man who BTW prepared breakfast...then he warmed up and kind of came around as I was leaving. I guess I would stay there again.

[Lone Wolf]

Wrong Crash Bang. They get hunters, fisherman and snowmobilers as well as hikers.

[hustler]

I had to stop this year because of running low on food. I had planned on going all the way from Caratunk to the A-Bridge in 5 days which didn't happen. It took 6 days instead, I skipped Monson. It was sort of a pain just doing a resupply there. It was off trail, and a long stop. They made me wait 3 hours to be able to buy food from them (the store opens at 5:00?). Then I had to wait for them to take me back across the lake. I however was still able to pull a 35 mile day, and get food, so it turned out ok. It would have been pricey to stay and eat there, but I'm also a cheap skate. Its worth the stop if you aren't in a hurry and have a few bucks to blow. It was a really awesome place.

[Crash! Bang!]

o well excuse me.

[Nameless]

I loved this stop when I made it earlyer this year. The bugs were BAD and I was on the end of my rope by the time I reached the airhorn, but the stop was more than worth it, it pretty much saved my day, and made a great memory. They COVER their pizzas, I absolutly loved mine, and found it to be resonablly priced. The items they have for resuply do cost a lot, but they are out in the middle of nowhere, so it costs more to get items out there. The lady was extremely helpful and had some great stories. Our group of eight were some of the first of the year though, mabey it helped that they werent worn out yet... I would recomend them to anyone I met on the trail

Pink aka Twinkie

[Freighttrain]

been there a few times... prices seemed fair enough... (remember you are in the middle of nowhere) Bill? Linda and lil Ben were always very nice to me and my dog.. ....

2 bucks a beer is cheap considdering a bottle or can of beer will cost 2 bucks or more at almost any bar

2 a min to use the cell? LMAO i wish they would charge 20 just so more people would learn to live without it

they are not in business to loose money... they have bills they must pay like anyone else......... Do you work for free?

i suspect that during peak times, Bill doesnt want to be driving across the lake from sun up to sun down every 20 min

[Cookerhiker]

I'm hiking all of Maine starting in mid-August and am considering sending a maildrop to WH Landing. Has anyone any experience with this?

[attroll]

I'm hiking all of Maine starting in mid-August and am considering sending a maildrop to WH Landing. Has anyone any experience with this?
I do not have experience with maindrops with them but I believe that they charge for maildrops unless you spend the night. You will have to look into this.

[Icicle]

Anyone have an updated email address for them? I tried to email them today from a google search and it got kicked back. I was thinking of staying there when I go to Maine in September to summit with my husband.

I tried this email: [email protected]

Thanks in advance.

[TOW]

the place should be on every hikers list to stop and experience....good people and an oasis in the wilderness....

[Lone Wolf]

You're right Larry. Great place but if the owners don't kiss your ass right off the bat upon arrival and bow to you cuz you're a "thru-hiker" who is almost finished and don't give you free stuff then the the place sucks. Lotsa ungreatful hikers are that way. WHL rocks!

[TOW]

You're right Larry. Great place but if the owners don't kiss your ass right off the bat upon arrival and bow to you cuz you're a "thru-hiker" who is almost finished and don't give you free stuff then the the place sucks. Lotsa ungreatful hikers are that way. WHL rocks!you said a mouthfull of truth there....

[Icicle]

the place should be on every hikers list to stop and experience....good people and an oasis in the wilderness....
Yeah you guys have me sold!! But....how about an updated email...anyone? ;)

[TOW]

anybody got their phone number?

[SGT Rock]

Hope to see you soon!
Linda and Bill
P. O. Box 749
Millinocket, Maine 04462
Information/Reservations: (207) 745-5116

From: http://www.mainerec.com/ware.shtml

My guess is they got off the old, bad AOL e-mail and haven't updated the site.

[Icicle]

My guess is they got off the old, bad AOL e-mail and haven't updated the site.
Probably right...will give them a call after I get the okay for the time off from the new job...a bit cheeky...been there a month and I want a week off at the end of September.... :D

Gotta love contract work!!

Thanks for the info!

[Tim Rich]

Greetings,

I'm just back from a walk from Monson to Katahdin, completing my attempt to section the AT that began in 1989. It was a hot, buggy, exhausting, exhilarating, exciting and satisfying trip. We stayed at WHL one evening last week, and I had spoken with Bill by phone before the trip, so I thought I'd make a couple of points from our experience.

Starting this year, WHL no longer accepts mail drops. Since they make only one or two trips a week into town, they were running into a problem of NOBOs mailing from Monson and showing up three or four days later thinking their drop would be there. We chose to carry all of our provisions throughout the trip, since the only other option was to spend about $100 for Shaw's to make a drop at Jo Mary Road.

Flexible/Nice vs. Rigid/Mean - We had a wonderful experience at WHL and I highly recommend it. I may end up back there someday, whether I hike the 100 mile again or not. Because it's just Bill and Linda and their 8 y/o home schooled son, they have set operating hours so they can have ample family time, which is admirable in my opinion. Lunch is 11-1, Dinner 5-6, they close the store at 7pm and breakfast is at 8 sharp. After hiking about 21 miles from East Branch Shelter plus the 1.2 mile side trail, we blew the horn at 6:15pm. Bill came right over and got us. I apologized for running a bit late and he said no problem they'd still feed us. After a one pound burger and a few beers, all was right with the world. Linda hung around a bit to get us situated and kept the shower house open after its normal closing at 8 for us.

Bill strikes me as a down to earth Mainer who gives what he gets. He was very nice to us but I can see that an entitled hiker might get told quickly to abide by the rules of the place, all of which are plainly stated. Linda was extremely nice and helpful. I can't say enough about how nice they both were to us, and how great our experience was there.

Prices - Our private cabin (the Shore House Cabin) was roomy, with four bedrooms and a great view. The two of us paid $40 each to have a bed with linens, a nice living room to relax, privacy, a shower and an AYCE breakfast that was great. The total was a little less than what we spent for a double private room and two 2X bfasts at Shaw's. I love Shaw's, but I have to say the WHL breakfast is better. For a bunk (no linens), shower and AYCE I believe it's $29.

The burgers are 6.50, 7.50 if a cheeseburger and 8.50 if you want enough fixings on them to make a small salad. They come with chips. My cheeseburger was great. Beer's 2.50, soda's a buck. They were cheaper than my burger and beers at the Holiday Inn in Bangor. A couple of other hikers loved the WHL pizza (Linda puts any leftover pizza in the fridge so you can pack it out for lunch the next day).

WHL accepts credit cards, but they charge $5 for charges up to $50 and 5% of the amount beyond that. The reason for this is that they have to get manual authorization for all calls by cell phone, and the cc processors take a chunk, usually around 4%, of the charge. All prices, and the credit card fee, are clearly posted - you can't miss them.

If you stay the night, Bill will run you a mile up the lake and beach his boat at Maher Tote Road, reducing your walk back to the trail from 1.2 to just 0.2 miles. That was nice.

Great people, great place, great experience.

Take Care,

Tim

[poison_ivy]

Thank you Tim for the update on the maildrops. Just in time for me to re-arrange my plans for my upcoming 100-Mile Wilderness trip.

Congratulations on finishing your section hike!! :)

-Ivy

[TJ aka Teej]

Congrats, Tim! Just missed you at KSC on Friday. About WHL - while the Companion doesn't say "No Maildrops Anymore!", I did take the maildrop info (including their mailing address) out of this year's edition. Next year I will add the caution about no mail drops. Anyone know if the Trailplace book has 'no maildrops' listed? Also, and news to me, was that WHL has a 'suppers-only-if-you-spend-the-night' policy (as reported to me by two nobos this weekend).

[Papa Bear]

I'd like to chime in a bit here. We stayed there last year and had a very very positive experience. I did have a mail drop sent there, but I sent it 3 weeks ahead. Sorry to hear they no longer do that.

The one reason I often heard from folks is that they want to stay at Antlers so WHL would be too short a day further on. In my opinion Antlers is a beautiful campsite (but it can be buggy) whereas WHL is a gem. I am very glad I satyed at WHL and I'm not particularly bothered that Antlers didn't fit my itinerary.

here's the rport I wrote for that day: White House Landing report (http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2h6gy/papabear/AT2004_Maine_Adventure.html#day5). We stayed Cooper Brook Falls leanto the night before, and had no trouble getting to WHL by around 2 in the afternoon.

So for me, WHL is a must stay. Antlers is a stay if you like.

Regards
Pb

[neighbor dave]

the guy is a jerk!

[boomerang]

I had a great experience at WHL on my thru this year. The pizza, as someone mentioned above, is to die for. Linda popped leftovers in the fridge (yes, this thru couldn't eat it all) and I packed out the rest.

I had heard from other hikers that Bill could be "grumpy." And no, he is not overtly or annoyingly nice like us Southerners could be, but I wouldn't call him grumpy or mean. So if you don't know how to get along with someone, then you might think he's grumpy.

The cool thing, that I don't think has been mentioned, is that his dad thruhiked a few years ago, and is planning a PCT hike soon! Bill and Linda had WHL at the time, and when his dad came through, Bill realized that he could cater to hikers as well as fisherman, snowmobilers, etc. Bill told me that he read "every book" available to learn about thruhiking so he could stop worrying about his dad.

So, give Bill a break. He lives on the edge of nowhere, so almost by definition is not "normal." He likes and understands hikers, and treated my crew of hikers well - but we treated him well first.

Oh yeah, he also put a sign on the privy there that said "Mount *****ahdin is full. Please use other privy." Hilarious!

[Lone Wolf]

Some hikers need thier ass kissed and to be put on a pedestal. Sounds like neighbor dave is one of them.

[neighbor dave]

Some hikers need thier ass kissed and to be put on a pedestal. Sounds like neighbor dave is one of them.some hikers need to learn how to spell!! :bse :jump :p
hey lone wolf!!
how's it goin' down there??? it was nice meetin' you and gypsy this past spring.
if you can shutdown the meth lab it'd be nice to see you at the gathering,ooops,that's right,the gathering is for hikers!!!!:bse :jump :bse :jump

[Lone Wolf]

You're right. I'm not a hiker, just a poser. I've done very little of the AT. I just live in a trail town to be cool. :cool:
And by the way genius, nothing is spelled wrong in my last post.

[neighbor dave]

Some hikers need thier ass kissed and to be put on a pedestal. Sounds like neighbor dave is one of them.i knew the schools were bad down there. maybe you should look again!!!
:bse :jump :bse :jump
oh i forgot to mention,
i did see your name carved into a lean-to somewhere along the way,i think it said,lonewolf "98"
all the best

[Lone Wolf]

Wasn't me. I've never carved anything. Besides if and when I ever sign my name it's Lone Wolf not lonewolf. Whoopee! I spelled their wrong.

[MoBeach42]

I stopped in at WHL on July 15th this year on my way north. I don't know what time it was that I got to the boatdock, but pretty darned early - I don't carry a watch, and had no idea that the boat ran on a schedule or what that schedule might be - it didn't seem to be listed next to the horn that I recall.

It was a bit of a wait, but that was fine by me. The owner seemed nice enough - I bought enough food for the next day. I was early enough that I rode back to the trail with the overnight guests so I wasn't inconvienceing anyone really. Made the wilderness only require me to carry 3 days of food, and I was glad to not have to carry a fourth.

-Jay

[Mr.Figaro]

I felt a little unwelcomed by Bill at WHL. The gist of what I got from my visit there was they are only a business and home for the family and hikers need to respect that. Seemed like an operation to get the hiker(s) in and have them spend some $$ and then get them out. I got admit, if you like no nonsense, then WHL will not disappoint. You can go there and be anonymous and spend good money and leave w/o having felt like you slighted anyone by not being social at all. Bill would improve his PR tremendously if he just talked and made it seemd like he had some interest in hikers. I was a little amused when he told me that they lived there since 1991 or so but only found out about the AT in 1998-ish. Maybe he was raising Ben and had no time for hiking trivia, but Bill just had no clue that hikers on the AT spend money and had done so for years in Maine. Contrast that with Curtis down at Standing Bear and how they ended up near the AT and opened a hostel soon thereafter. I would not go to WHL again now because I feel that the value of my dollars spent there was not the best. The cost of resupplying there was a tad bit high. I met some hikers that think the place is the best. The best? Hmmmmmm. I tried to analyze that one. Is it the great prices? No. Is it the location? Yes, that could be it. Is it Bill and Linda? Well, they are decent parents and hostel operators, but do not expect Rusty's or even a church hostel in Vernon, NJ treatment. So, I am neutral on that one. Is it the food they sell? Well, a burger is OK. I won't complain. I had one. They are like 1 pound of meat. Food is good. So there you go. The hostel is about the food and location.

[Blue Jay]

I felt a little unwelcomed by Bill at WHL. The gist of what I got from my visit there was they are only a business and home for the family and hikers need to respect that. Seemed like an operation to get the hiker(s) in and have them spend some $$ and then get them out. I got admit, if you like no nonsense, then WHL will not disappoint. You can go there and be anonymous and spend good money and leave w/o having felt like you slighted anyone by not being social at all. Bill would improve his PR tremendously if he just talked and made it seemd like he had some interest in hikers. I was a little amused when he told me that they lived there since 1991 or so but only found out about the AT in 1998-ish. Maybe he was raising Ben and had no time for hiking trivia, but Bill just had no clue that hikers on the AT spend money and had done so for years in Maine. Contrast that with Curtis down at Standing Bear and how they ended up near the AT and opened a hostel soon thereafter. I would not go to WHL again now because I feel that the value of my dollars spent there was not the best. The cost of resupplying there was a tad bit high. I met some hikers that think the place is the best. The best? Hmmmmmm. I tried to analyze that one. Is it the great prices? No. Is it the location? Yes, that could be it. Is it Bill and Linda? Well, they are decent parents and hostel operators, but do not expect Rusty's or even a church hostel in Vernon, NJ treatment. So, I am neutral on that one. Is it the food they sell? Well, a burger is OK. I won't complain. I had one. They are like 1 pound of meat. Food is good. So there you go. The hostel is about the food and location.

How was the Tofu?

[Mr.Figaro]

How was the Tofu?Tofu is for southbound fairies.

[Blue Jay]

Tofu is for southbound fairies.

Sorry, you're not who I thought you were.

[Cookerhiker]

I felt a little unwelcomed by Bill at WHL. The gist of what I got from my visit there was they are only a business and home for the family and hikers need to respect that. Seemed like an operation to get the hiker(s) in and have them spend some $$ and then get them out. I got admit, if you like no nonsense, then WHL will not disappoint. You can go there and be anonymous and spend good money and leave w/o having felt like you slighted anyone by not being social at all. Bill would improve his PR tremendously if he just talked and made it seemd like he had some interest in hikers. I was a little amused when he told me that they lived there since 1991 or so but only found out about the AT in 1998-ish. Maybe he was raising Ben and had no time for hiking trivia, but Bill just had no clue that hikers on the AT spend money and had done so for years in Maine. Contrast that with Curtis down at Standing Bear and how they ended up near the AT and opened a hostel soon thereafter. I would not go to WHL again now because I feel that the value of my dollars spent there was not the best. The cost of resupplying there was a tad bit high. I met some hikers that think the place is the best. The best? Hmmmmmm. I tried to analyze that one. Is it the great prices? No. Is it the location? Yes, that could be it. Is it Bill and Linda? Well, they are decent parents and hostel operators, but do not expect Rusty's or even a church hostel in Vernon, NJ treatment. So, I am neutral on that one. Is it the food they sell? Well, a burger is OK. I won't complain. I had one. They are like 1 pound of meat. Food is good. So there you go. The hostel is about the food and location.
Well, I thought both Bill and Linda were friendly. Bill seemed hiker-friendly to me.

The cost may have been high but that could be due to their location. I enjoyed the dinner and breakfast.

But they didn't have any ice cream!:( ;)

[Thor]

I stayed at WHL on my hike this year. I will agree that Bill can be a bit grumpy, and some of the other hikers there had a problem with that, but seriously if you just give him some respect and a smile, he warms right up.

I had a great experience there, personally, and would recommend it to any hiker who has room in their budget for it. Be aware of the time of day, though, as they are totally inflexible on that whole "Pickup during daylight hours only" rule. The lake near the dock is full of rocks that are at, or just below, the surface, and running at night is dangerous. While I was there a pair of hikers showed up right at dusk and blew the horn. Bill and Linda just ignored it, since the rule is clearly posted, and those two had to camp at the edge of the lake and wait until morning to come over to resupply.

Also, late in the season the power company lowers the level of the lake, leaving it too low to get to the Mahar Tote Rd trail, so you have to hike the whole 1 mile back as well. No biggie.

[DawnTreader]

Stayed at WHL with a friend that need to shuttle out because of foot issues. They charged $100 for a twenty minute drive to the bus pick up. They really arn't "in the middle of nowhere" Less than a half hour from Millinocket down the golden road. I think they took advantage of my friends vulnerablilty and jumped at the opportunity to shuttle him out.. I wonder why. I was asstonsihed to hear how little driving actually took place to get him to the bus.
It was however, a beautiful stay. Great place, great food.. If you go, take the canoes to the west side of the lake and follow the shore line for a half mile for a great view of Katahdin, and probable moose sightings.. a very sureal place indeed.

[Creek Dancer]

My only experience with them is that they do not accept mail drops for thru-hikers. I sent a package to Nimblefoot in 2005 at his request, and it was returned a month later.

[Spock]

Wonderful place. It breaks up the 100

[Spock]

Wonderful place. It breaks up the 100 Mile Wilderness and you can get a package there if you want. Prices were reasonable in 2003 - considering the 50 miles of bad roads to the nearest town. The folks were great. Friendly and helpful.

[Jack Tarlin]

Spock said "Wonderful place. It breaks up the 100."

On the other hand, there are plenty of folks who find the last 100 miles so wonderful we don't WANT it broken up, and chose to hike from Monson to Baxter without any layovers. Plus, people who overnight at WHL generaly miss overnighting at Antlers Campsite or Patawadjo Shelter. The first spot is perhaps the loveliest place to camp on the whole A.T.; the other is a beautiful shelter with one of the Trail's best water sources.

I always pack enough food from Monson to go straight thru the last 100 because I neither want nor have the need for it to be broken up, but to each their own.

[Lone Wolf]

Wonderful place. It breaks up the 100 Mile Wilderness and you can get a package there if you want. Prices were reasonable in 2003 - considering the 50 miles of bad roads to the nearest town. The folks were great. Friendly and helpful.

I agree. It's a wonderful place to throw a tent up next to the lake. But no more packages are accepted. Most thru-hikers are ready to be done by then so they don't stop.

[Jeff]

Was at WHL in Aug '06...good time, great food. Bill mentioned that with the mild winters of late (and lack of good snowmobiling), thru hikers are their number one customers.

[Peaks]

Spock said "Wonderful place. It breaks up the 100."

On the other hand, there are plenty of folks who find the last 100 miles so wonderful we don't WANT it broken up, and chose to hike from Monson to Baxter without any layovers. Plus, people who overnight at WHL generaly miss overnighting at Antlers Campsite or Patawadjo Shelter. The first spot is perhaps the loveliest place to camp on the whole A.T.; the other is a beautiful shelter with one of the Trail's best water sources.

I always pack enough food from Monson to go straight thru the last 100 because I neither want nor have the need for it to be broken up, but to each their own.

totally agree with you Jack.

[Downunda]

I went across there in 2002 intending to stay the night. I must have got them on a bad day as the husband and wife (I assumed they were married) were clearing having a long running argument. As you might expect I didn't feel too welcome and as I didn't want to be around that sort of atmosphere I bought a few supplies and moved on.

Accordingly I don't have fond memories of the place.

[TJ aka Teej]

you can get a package there if you want.

No mail-drops anymore.

[Footslogger]

Have only stayed there once and had a positive experience. The pizza and burger were something I could never forget.

That said ...next time I traverse the wilderness I think I might seriously consider carrying enough food to get me all the way to Katahdin.

There are SO many one-of-a-kind campsites in the 100 mile wilderness and I promised myself that next time I would take my time and maybe even "zero" next to a pond as I approached the end of my hike.

'Slogger

[Thor]

Was at WHL in Aug '06...good time, great food. Bill mentioned that with the mild winters of late (and lack of good snowmobiling), thru hikers are their number one customers.

By the time I got there, October '06, they had decided that they weren't going to even bother wintering there anymore. They've given up on the snowmobile season entirely and are looking to get winter caretaker jobs in Florida.

In any case, I had plenty of food to get me to Katahdin, but I wanted to blow that horn ;) I would have stayed at Antlers, it was a beautiful site, but it was raining and I'm a wuss about wet tent. If I can avoid it, I do.

[neighbor dave]

totally agree with you Jack.
:-? i agree with peaks!!:welcome

[hopefulhiker]

Forget about sending a maildrop to Whitehouse Landing. They don't take maildrops. I stayed there. It was comfortable and nice. The burger is probably the best one on the trail. Everything is priced really high. You can do a limited ressuply there for a price.. Still it is great to be able to go there in the middle of the hundred mile wilderness.

[JAK]

This is the other thread. So I'll pick up here.

When should a hiker refuse to pay the full amount of an invoice?
If there is a dispute over the price and/or services, what action should be taken?

[JAK]

Well I just finished reading this whole thread through and formed my own opinion, which is only of any value to me of course because I have never stayed there. It sounds to me like a place I would like to go to with my family as a destination to spend some money for a nice weekend, but I would be inclined to pass it by on a solo thru-hike. If the fellow was a little grumbly and there were a few extras and I felt I was overcharged I would likely still pay and not complain. At a chain motel or hotel I would complain, but not at somebodies home. So my question stands, but I don't think it applies to this place.

[JAK]

Now that I've read about it, I would pass it up on a thru-hike or the wilderness as a section hike, but I might go there for a weekend with my family if I wanted to go to someplace nice and spend some money. I tend not to mix the two, but I can see how others might. The blue blazes might have thrown me though, and I am not sure what it says in the guide book.

p.s. There is another thread. This one is about mail drops. I understand they don't do mail drops anymore, but you could probably arrange one if you did it well in advance and planned on staying overnight, or made an offer $$$.

[JAK]

Darn. Ignore or delete last post. Wrong thread.

[Frosty]

Uncle Tom's Trail Journal
9-11-2007


Everyone but me wanted to go over to White House Landing Wilderness Camps for their one pound burger and a drink. It was a three mile walk just to get there; two North, then 0.9 down a side trail, where you blow an airhorn on a dock, and, hopefully the owner of the camp pilots over in a boat and ferries you back and forth to his camp, where you can eat his $8 one pound burger.

Not exactly. MEGATEX realized that we didn't all have to walk 6 miles to eat burgers and come back, especially in the pouring rain, that one person could go there, and bring the burgers back here where the rest of us woiuld stay warmer and drier in the lean-to. So, we negotiated a deal with The Golem. The Golem went over with $75 in cash, around the time for the evening meal . He was more than willing to do it in exchage for a free burger and a beer.

He was gone for about three hours when he came back, in the dark, empty handed. We took one look at his soaked and stressed presence and knew this was yet another adventure on the AT unfolding right before our eyes.

The Golem was very upset at how things had turned out. After the Golem walked there in the rain, and put in his order, the owner informed the Golem that, he "could do any thing with his business that he felt like". Today , he was not willing to make up any hamburgers to go. He was angry with the whole idea that potential cash clients would actually pass up a chance to pay $35 to stay in a bunkhouse with no electricity, and if anyone wanted a burger from his place they would have to come over themselves and eat it there. So, a determined businessman for sure, but it is undertandable why he complained about poor business this season. How can anyone who puts himself out there as a resource for hikers (a) refuse $75 in cash (b) refuse to welcome a thru hiker who had hiked 3 miles in the rain to get there, and (c) send them back in the rain without food?

I'm not getting it. I had heard from other hikers that the situaiton there is mixed, that the owner is moody, and somethings things ghet downright foolish, but this ??

[Jack Tarlin]

Man, I don't know which is more ridiculous.....the owner's bad behavior, or that some schlub would actually walk 6 miles in the rain for a cheesburger. :D

[Lone Wolf]

Man, I don't know which is more ridiculous.....the owner's bad behavior, or that some schlub would actually walk 6 miles in the rain for a cheesburger. :D

really. ****in whiners:rolleyes:

[JAK]

Sounds like a match made in heaven. :)

[weary]

Man, I don't know which is more ridiculous.....the owner's bad behavior, or that some schlub would actually walk 6 miles in the rain for a cheesburger. :D
Read carefully Jack and you will realize that he was walking six miles for several hamburgers and beer. One for him. Several for his hiking buddies. You must remember Jack. These things happen all the time on trails, even the Appalachian Trail.

Weary

[Red Hat]

The owner has a beautiful spot on a lake, a motor boat, several cabins, and the restaurant, all of which cost money to maintain. He counts on hiker business to keep it all going and is disappointed when they just want a burger, which hardly pays for the boat gas. I hadn't planned on stopping, but I'm sure glad I did. It costs, but it was worth it.

[Appalachian Tater]

He counts on hiker business to keep it all goingIn the past, they have relied more on business from snowmobilers rather than from hikers, but there have been problems in some years with too little snowfall.

[RITBlake]

Forget about sending a maildrop to Whitehouse Landing. They don't take maildrops. I stayed there. It was comfortable and nice. The burger is probably the best one on the trail. Everything is priced really high. You can do a limited ressuply there for a price.. Still it is great to be able to go there in the middle of the hundred mile wilderness.

If I close my eyes and really concentrate I can think of that massive burger at the WHL. My god was it the right food at the right moment.

[Wise Old Owl]

Ok I am interested- someone who has the address or a LAT/Long. please pm me.

[Uncle Tom]

I would not go there. The owner was unusually cruel with us. Here is my entry from last year's Trailjournal so that you can understand why.


http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=206036

[RITBlake]

I would not go there. The owner was unusually cruel with us. Here is my entry from last year's Trailjournal so that you can understand why.


http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=206036

Lol you're complaining about an owner you've never met and a hostel you've never been to. Ok now I've seen it all.

[Lone Wolf]

I would not go there. The owner was unusually cruel with us. Here is my entry from last year's Trailjournal so that you can understand why.


http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=206036

i would hardly call it cruel.

[RITBlake]

i would hardly call it cruel.

Yah haha. Cruel would have been making your friend swim back to shore from the WHL

[WalkingStick75]

I stayed at WHL last August, Found Bill and his wife to be very nice. As we talked during dinner he told me his dad was a thru hiker and if it wasn't for the thru hikers he would be in business. Then after dinner I was sitting on the porch reading my book when the horn sounded. Bill went over to pick up the hikers but even though it was in the dinner hours he refused to cook for them because he already cleaned up. They had to buy snacks and pop for dinner.

So Bill has a lot to learn about "customer satisification" and that is why I would not go back even though I had good conversation, great hamburger and a comfortable bed he stiffed these other hikers because he is lazy and didn't want to clean up again.

[Hikerhead]

I stayed at WHL last August, Found Bill and his wife to be very nice. As we talked during dinner he told me his dad was a thru hiker and if it wasn't for the thru hikers he would be in business. Then after dinner I was sitting on the porch reading my book when the horn sounded. Bill went over to pick up the hikers but even though it was in the dinner hours he refused to cook for them because he already cleaned up. They had to buy snacks and pop for dinner.

So Bill has a lot to learn about "customer satisification" and that is why I would not go back even though I had good conversation, great hamburger and a comfortable bed he stiffed these other hikers because he is lazy and didn't want to clean up again.

I just wonder if he told them that there would be no cooking before he brought them over.

[A-Train]

Here is something to think about. On the PCT there is Vermillion Valley resort in the Sierras, which sounds very similar to WHL. However they charge 7 or 8 bucks EACH way for the boat across the lake. And, they have a schedule with 2 ferries a day. So maybe WHL isn't so bad with their prices.

That being said, I haven't visited WHL or VVR and don't plan to visit either if I re-hike either trail.

[Phreak]

I just wonder if he told them that there would be no cooking before he brought them over.
I dunno about the others but they told me about the cooking hours as soon as I walked off the dock. I can't remember the hours, but there is a 2-3 hour window for cooked meals in the evening.

[Shutterbug]

If I close my eyes and really concentrate I can think of that massive burger at the WHL. My god was it the right food at the right moment.

I have only been to Whitehouse Landing once, but I enjoyed the place. In fact, I liked it enough that I stayed an extra day.

When it was time to pay up, I told Bill to add a tip to the payment. He looked at me like I was crazy and said, "Are you sure?" Evidentally, he doesn't get many tips.

I realize that many, maybe most, of the people who stop at Whitehouse Landing are on a limited budget, but some are not. Perhaps an occasional tip would help Bill's demeanor. Isn't that how tips are supposed to work?

[TOW]

It has been since 2002 that I have been there. I was hiking with a group of southbounders that loved the place but when we got on down the trail most of them started griping about the price of things. I reminded them of where the place was located but still they griped.

I had no problem.

[rafe]

That being said, I haven't visited WHL or VVR and don't plan to visit either if I re-hike either trail.

WHL wasn't there in 1990. Or if it was, I wasn't aware of it. I wonder if I'd have tried to go there, if it had been. (Probably!) But as it turned out, that week in the 100-mile was as long as I'd ever spent in the woods, w/o contact with "civilization" -- and was all the more special because of that, I think.

I was hoping for another week like that, starting in a couple of weeks, on the PCT. But plans are up in the air at the moment due to the fires. May need to settle for a shorter section somewhere else. (I'm thinking maybe Sonora Pass/Kennedy Meadows, heading north...)

[notorius tic]

I stayed there in 07 got to see Baxter their resident MOOSE he was swimming in the lake . The man was a bit of a Grump but the Burger made up for that..

[WalkingStick75]

I just wonder if he told them that there would be no cooking before he brought them over.

Don't know that, IMO I don't think it matters they were not happy they pushed the miles, made it on time and were turned down.

[spittinpigeon]

Perhaps an occasional tip would help Bill's demeanor. Isn't that how tips are supposed to work?




Ahhhh, no. It's the opposite, the customer is the one to be kept happy. Poor service=poor tip.
In 06' that guy was grumpy to me too. His wife must be getting pretty sick of overcompensating with her friendliness.

[quasarr]

I stayed there a few days ago, I loved it. I'd heard all the rumors but the owners were nice and the food, lodging, and location were all great. It was a bit expensive but I didn't mind paying because I was really happy with my stay.

[Phreak]

I agree that the husband is definitely a little grumpy but the wife is very nice.

I sat and conversed with the wife for several hours during my stay. She was kind enough to cook me a second 1lb burger (outside of the normal cooking hours), and was generous enough to take my cell phone and camera batteries to her house and charged them for me. They were waiting for me at the breakfast table the following morning.

The prices are a little high, but you have to consider their location and the lack of any other services in the area.

I have plans of stopping their again next fall while hiking the 100 Mile Wilderness with some friends.

[minnesotasmith]

And, I don't intend to go to WHL on my repeat thruhike next year, either.

I called the place a couple weeks ago. The man answered. I politely asked him if they would accept a mail drop. He replied no, but that they had hiker food there. I responded that they almost certainly didn't have the food I carried with me on hikes, and rather than get into an argument, politely terminated the call.

The guy IMO appears to think that if they don't accept maildrops, that everyone who would have come by to pick up a maildrop would have, in addition to buying a couple meals, something to drink, a shower, towel, and an overnight stay, would find themselves also spending $120.00 to buy $50 worth of resupply. Well, he's wrong.

With no maildrop of our own healthy food available (not to mention nonfood supplies), we'll just keep on going to Abol Bridge, the effort and time of the detour (not to mention the expense) just not being worth what we'd get out of the place. Bet we'll have plenty of company in that decision...


http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/hhs/phs/drawingtheline/images/money.gif

[Appalachian Tater]

People don't seem to understand that WHL is completely off the grid. They have to generate their own electricity and haul in their own cooking gas. The husband, wife, and kid run the whole camp by themselves, do all the cleaning, maintenance, cooking, etc., plus homeschool Jr. They don't get deliveries and they have to go pick up the mail and all food and supplies themselves in their own vehicle with their own gas. (I think they told me it was 45 minutes to the nearest town but I may be mistaken about this.) They don't have access to wholesale goods or food suppliers. They don't have room in their vehicle for multiple hiker drop boxes nor time to keep track of them or energy to argue with people whose boxes don't show up or are damaged or stolen.

Their hiker supplies are not meant to be a source for a major resupply.

Furthermore, during the muddy season the road is impassable for weeks at a time and there is no mail or resupply or vehicular traffic of any kind in or out whatsoever, besides the boat to nowhere.

The prices there are reasonable considering the location and the costs of supplying the goods. A comparable fresh-made burger and beer would be at least as expensive in most urban areas.

The kitchen hours are limited because when they're not cooking and serving meals and cleaning up afterwards, they're changing sheets and sweeping floors and mowing grass.

There probably are some valid criticisms--from what I've read, they would do well to clearly post prices and rules. Certainly the blazing of the trail to the landing is overdone. I was surprised that the hiker box was designated for overnight guests only, but I guess people who put stuff in it were cool with that or they wouldn't have put anything in it. The sign saying to blow the air horn once only is a little off-putting until you imagine some jack*** blowing it over and over again with the sound traveling across the peaceful lake disturbing everyone for miles around.

But in the end, no matter what they do, they're not going to make everyone happy. And frankly, someone who wasn't happy at Elmer's wouldn't be happy at WHL despite them being very different places so minnesotasmith, I believe you made the correct decision not to stop there. You would have probably ended up trying to hike out or taking the boat across on your own.

[WalkingStick75]

Full agreement with Appalachian Tater, I have no problem with their prices. Hopefully they have spent a little time here on WB and have been reading their reviews. There was another one just like this one last fall. If he is a business man, and I think he is then hopefully he will make the necessary changes to keep his customers happy. We all have to remember nobody can make everyone happy.

[weary]

People don't seem to understand that WHL is completely off the grid. They have to generate their own electricity and haul in their own cooking gas. The husband, wife, and kid run the whole camp by themselves, do all the cleaning, maintenance, cooking, etc., plus homeschool Jr. They don't get deliveries and they have to go pick up the mail and all food and supplies themselves in their own vehicle with their own gas. (I think they told me it was 45 minutes to the nearest town but I may be mistaken about this.) They don't have access to wholesale goods or food suppliers. They don't have room in their vehicle for multiple hiker drop boxes nor time to keep track of them or energy to argue with people whose boxes don't show up or are damaged or stolen.

Their hiker supplies are not meant to be a source for a major resupply.

Furthermore, during the muddy season the road is impassable for weeks at a time and there is no mail or resupply or vehicular traffic of any kind in or out whatsoever, besides the boat to nowhere.

The prices there are reasonable considering the location and the costs of supplying the goods. A comparable fresh-made burger and beer would be at least as expensive in most urban areas.

The kitchen hours are limited because when they're not cooking and serving meals and cleaning up afterwards, they're changing sheets and sweeping floors and mowing grass.

There probably are some valid criticisms--from what I've read, they would do well to clearly post prices and rules. Certainly the blazing of the trail to the landing is overdone. I was surprised that the hiker box was designated for overnight guests only, but I guess people who put stuff in it were cool with that or they wouldn't have put anything in it. The sign saying to blow the air horn once only is a little off-putting until you imagine some jack*** blowing it over and over again with the sound traveling across the peaceful lake disturbing everyone for miles around.

But in the end, no matter what they do, they're not going to make everyone happy. And frankly, someone who wasn't happy at Elmer's wouldn't be happy at WHL despite them being very different places so minnesotasmith, I believe you made the correct decision not to stop there. You would have probably ended up trying to hike out or taking the boat across on your own.
My objection is simpler. WHL blatantly posted commercial messages in the trail corridor, thus ignoring national Park trail rules, and lied about doing so, and it continues to do so.

Their argument is simple. "I didn't post any illegal signs. Someone else did. If you think I did it, prove that I did it."

Unfortunately, "proof" in a court of law goes beyond ordinary common sense.

Weary

[Lone Wolf]

My objection is simpler. WHL blatantly posted commercial messages in the trail corridor, thus ignoring national Park trail rules, and lied about doing so, and it continues to do so.

Their argument is simple. "I didn't post any illegal signs. Someone else did. If you think I did it, prove that I did it."

Weary

if youu, MATC, and ATC have a problem with them and think they're doing something illegal, then address it. kincora an d dennis cove hostels have signs at the road too.

[Walkie Talkie]

I stayed at WHL in 2003. It was one of the highlights of my hike. The bill was just over $50. Thats for 2 of their 1 pound burgers, a shower, breakfast, a bunk, they did have my maildrop, and a boat ride to and fro. That is such a deal, especially for such a remote location. If you don't like that price, you must have been really grumpy for all of New England. I didn't notice the husband having an attitude but I was in the glow of about to finish my thru. As far as the advertisement on the trail. I saw advertisements all along the trail at road crossings and at shelters. Not something to get your thong fouled for. When I do the 100 mile wilderness I will be definately stopping again.

[foxfire01]

I stayed at White House Landing when I did the trail in 2002.It was a great last stop before the trip into Baxter.The burgers were great and the views of the lake were wonderful!
I think you will find it a great way to break up the wilderness

Foxfire
Ga Me 02

[MOWGLI]

My objection is simpler. WHL blatantly posted commercial messages in the trail corridor, thus ignoring national Park trail rules, and lied about doing so, and it continues to do so.

Their argument is simple. "I didn't post any illegal signs. Someone else did. If you think I did it, prove that I did it."

Weary

If that's true, and I tend to believe Weary, I'll never spend a dime there. Ever.

[Skidsteer]

if youu, MATC, and ATC have a problem with them and think they're doing something illegal, then address it. kincora an d dennis cove hostels have signs at the road too.

Are signs at the road OK versus signs on the trail itself? Or is it a gray area?

[weary]

Are signs at the road OK versus signs on the trail itself? Or is it a gray area?
There are no public roads in the "wilderness." The land is all owned by the National Park Service. LOgging companies have easements for transporting logs in several locations. None of the easements allow for the posting of business signs.

The AT Ranger from Harpers Ferry some time ago visited the area and talked with the landing owners. I don't know the outcome of those talks. I do know that the business never responded constructively to complaints by MATC over the years. MATC was especially upset when blaze orange signs were posted.

Weary

[Lone Wolf]

this sign issue has been brought up before. Shaw's had one pointing towards his place at the junction of the white and blue blazed trails near monson. nobody complained about that and it's obviously on the AT

[Cookerhiker]

Here is something to think about. On the PCT there is Vermillion Valley resort in the Sierras, which sounds very similar to WHL. However they charge 7 or 8 bucks EACH way for the boat across the lake. And, they have a schedule with 2 ferries a day. So maybe WHL isn't so bad with their prices.

That being said, I haven't visited WHL or VVR and don't plan to visit either if I re-hike either trail.

VVR doesn't charge for the bunk space in the 4-person tent cabins, figuring that hikers will spend on meals, laundry, phone/internet, and buying stuff in their store. I don't believe there's any prohibition on cooking your own food there so you can get by without spending much. Like WHL, many hikers bitch about the prices at VVR but I didn't find it unreasonable.

[rickb]

There are no public roads in the "wilderness." The land is all owned by the National Park Service. LOgging companies have easements for transporting logs in several locations. None of the easements allow for the posting of business signs.

Weary

I am not so sure about that.

Private associations have gates at some of those roads and have been charging hikers a per person fee for the right to use them for years.

If private groups are charging hikers to use NPS land, then there is something really rotten going on.

Could you please set me straight if I am wrong?

[Red Hat]

The only "sign" I saw on the AT for WHL was a business card on a tree near the road. There were wooden signs along the Maher Tote Rd which leads to the landing, but nothing on the AT.

[woodsy]

http://www.northmainewoods.org/whatisnmw.html

Browse around here for info on how it all works, multiple use, multiple land owners etc,click on information for entrance fees and camping fees for those who choose to drive in to this gated area.


Rick B: Private associations have gates at some of those roads and have been charging hikers a per person fee for the right to use them for years.

[weary]

I am not so sure about that.

Private associations have gates at some of those roads and have been charging hikers a per person fee for the right to use them for years.

If private groups are charging hikers to use NPS land, then there is something really rotten going on.

Could you please set me straight if I am wrong?
The National Park Service owns the corridor, which generally is a thousand yards wide. Private companies own the land and roads leading to the corridor. They are free to charge whatever they want for the use of their roads. Some are free (mostly those coming in from Greenville.) Those leading from Route 11 between Brownville and Millinocket mostly have gates and charge money.

But the park service controls the roads in the corridor and their rules say no commercial advertising. I'm encouraged by the report that the only signs now are business cards in the shelters. That suggests to me that the visit from the National Park Service ranger from Harpers Ferry may have resolved the situation.

Of course the years of illegal signs have done the job the owner intended. WHL is no longer a mystery. Everyone knows and talks about it. Witness this thread.

Weary

[weary]

this sign issue has been brought up before. Shaw's had one pointing towards his place at the junction of the white and blue blazed trails near monson. nobody complained about that and it's obviously on the AT
Hiking clubs are made up of reasonable people. We don't go out of our way to fight with the businesses along the trail that offer services to hikers. A tasteful sign leading to WHL probably would have ignored also.

Rather WHL originally posted a dozen blaze orange signs every few feet along the trail.

Weary

[Lone Wolf]

Hiking clubs are made up of reasonable people. We don't go out of our way to fight with the businesses along the trail that offer services to hikers. A tasteful sign leading to WHL probably would have ignored also.

Rather WHL originally posted a dozen blaze orange signs every few feet along the trail.

Weary

So NPS rules regarding no commercial signs can be broken if the sign/signs are "tasteful"? I don't get it

[rafe]

What's "not to get" about a reasonable compromise? What loophole or arrangement allowed Rusty to put up signs right on the corridor about his place? I mean, if Weary's ok with it -- well, that's enough for me.

[Tenderheart]

Stayed there one night in 2000. The lady handled the evening duties while the man cooked breakfast. Boat ride was free. One short blast, please. Had no problems with prices and I'm poor. DidI mention that the lady looked very good in jeans? Mean no disrespect!

litefoot 2000

[weary]

So NPS rules regarding no commercial signs can be broken if the sign/signs are "tasteful"? I don't get it
Lone Wolf. There is only one ranger assigned to the 2,175 miles of the Appalachian Trail. Maintaining clubs kind of figure that he is busy. So most of us. particularly in my experience, Maine, don't complain except for blatant violations.

However, Lone Wolf, if you want more diligent enforcement, just send me a PM and I'll refer it to the park service -- or of course you can do it yourself.

Since maintainers are also for the most part hikers. we don't complain about every federal rule -- just those that offend us. What's your practice, LW?

Weary

[The Old Fhart]

Weary(post 94)-"My objection is simpler. WHL blatantly posted commercial messages in the trail corridor, thus ignoring national Park trail rules, and lied about doing so, and it continues to do so."

Weary(post 106)-"...I'm encouraged by the report that the only signs now are business cards in the shelters. That suggests to me that the visit from the National Park Service ranger from Harpers Ferry may have resolved the situation.So has it been resolved or do they continue to do so? :-?You can't have it both ways.

[weary]

So has it been resolved or do they continue to do so? :-?You can't have it both ways.
Of course. All I know for sure is that years of effort by MATC failed to resolve the violation. As I also said, I know that recently ATC and the NPS entered the fray. The first indication that they succeeded was the post that said the most blatant signs are down. I haven't been in the wilderness recently, so I don't know for sure.

Weary

[Lone Wolf]

Lone Wolf. There is only one ranger assigned to the 2,175 miles of the Appalachian Trail. Maintaining clubs kind of figure that he is busy. So most of us. particularly in my experience, Maine, don't complain except for blatant violations.

However, Lone Wolf, if you want more diligent enforcement, just send me a PM and I'll refer it to the park service -- or of course you can do it yourself.

Since maintainers are also for the most part hikers. we don't complain about every federal rule -- just those that offend us. What's your practice, LW?

Weary

i don't have a practice and i don't care if folks advertise thier business at trailheads. it seems you have a dislike for WHL that goes beyond signage.

[Panzer1]

So NPS rules regarding no commercial signs can be broken if the sign/signs are "tasteful"? I don't get it

Like you've never broken a rule??:D

Panzer

[weary]

i don't have a practice and i don't care if folks advertise thier business at trailheads. it seems you have a dislike for WHL that goes beyond signage.
Multiple blaze orange business signs in the most remote section of the entire Appalachian Trail are simply inappropriate, as well as illegal. Yes, I have a dislike for WHL because its taken a decade to get the owner to recognize these simple facts, if in fact he finally does recognize the inappropriate nature of his practices.

Weary

[Lone Wolf]

Multiple blaze orange business signs in the most remote section of the entire Appalachian Trail are simply inappropriate, as well as illegal. Yes, I have a dislike for WHL because its taken a decade to get the owner to recognize these simple facts, if in fact he finally does recognize the inappropriate nature of his practices.

Weary

well i disagree and i'm not going to argue with you. it's a non-issue and a minor infraction in the big picture. my opinion. end of discussion for me

[minnesotasmith]

And, just maybe to get him to examine how he does some things that rub hikers the wrong way, I dug up the e-mail address for WHL and sent them the link to this thread. I predict that he won't show, just as that Birmingham Chamber of Commerce guy who's pushing the Pinhoti as an AT extension ignored my lengthy, polite, thoughtful email, but we'll see...

[Panzer1]

Multiple blaze orange business signs in the most remote section of the entire Appalachian Trail are simply inappropriate, as well as illegal.

Why does he need signs? Wouldn't everyone who has a guide book already know about WHL?

Panzer

[Phreak]

Why does he need signs? Wouldn't everyone who has a guide book already know about WHL?

Panzer
Yes, but it's easy to miss the side trail without a sign or marking.

[rickb]

Someone blazed a side trail?

[Phreak]

Someone blazed a side trail?
Yeah, WHL did. This whole issue is blown way out of proportion IMO.

[weary]

This whole issue is blown way out of proportion IMO.
If so, it is WHL that caused it. The business refused for years to respond to MATC concerns. We were lied to and ignored. Finally an Appalachian Trail Ranger had to drive 2,000 miles and threaten the owner with arrest before he would listen to reason. The rules are clear. No commercial signs on the trail and no new side trails without the permission of the National Park Service.

Weary

[Sly]

I don't have a problem with a side trail but, I would have a problem with multiple orange signs, as I do with more than needed white blazes.

[Panzer1]

Finally an Appalachian Trail Ranger had to drive 2,000 miles and threaten the owner with arrest before he would listen to reason.

So what was the "reason" that he listened to? What happened next?

Panzer

[Sly]

I suspect the "reason" was that the signs were illegally placed, and onced faced with arrest, WHL took them down.

[stumpknocker]

I'm taking a zero today here in CT and had computer access....and I had heard of a kinder, gentler Whiteblaze, so thought I'd come back and check it out. I see lots of talk about White House Landing....some bad, some good, so I HAD to make a comment. White House Landing is my FAVORITE stop on the entire Appalachian Trail!! I've stopped there in '02, '03, '04, '05, '06 and '07....sometimes for multiple days. I plan on stopping there again this year on my way through and will probably zero there just so I can take their canoe out to see moose and eagles that hang around the remote parts of the lake. I've always enjoyed Bill and Linda and Ben and Pooh Bear. I consider them friends and always look forward to seeing them each year. I ALWAYS resupply there also. They have plenty of food on hand to get you to either Monson or Abol Bridge....which ever way you're heading. :)

[Lone Wolf]

I'm taking a zero today here in CT and had computer access....and I had heard of a kinder, gentler Whiteblaze, so thought I'd come back and check it out. I see lots of talk about White House Landing....some bad, some good, so I HAD to make a comment. White House Landing is my FAVORITE stop on the entire Appalachian Trail!! I've stopped there in '02, '03, '04, '05, '06 and '07....sometimes for multiple days. I plan on stopping there again this year on my way through and will probably zero there just so I can take their canoe out to see moose and eagles that hang around the remote parts of the lake. I've always enjoyed Bill and Linda and Ben and Pooh Bear. I consider them friends and always look forward to seeing them each year. I ALWAYS resupply there also. They have plenty of food on hand to get you to either Monson or Abol Bridge....which ever way you're heading. :)

gypsy and i stayed there for 3 days in 2000. had a ball! no problems. of course i knew bill's dad, poopajack who thru-hiked in 98 :)

[weary]

I suspect the "reason" was that the signs were illegally placed, and onced faced with arrest, WHL took them down.
I suspect, Sly is right. When the dispute with WHL began, I maintained a section south of the dispute, and later spent eight years as overseer of 60 miles, a job I gave up a five years ago. Since then I have been involved mostly with the Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust and have not followed in any detail the WHL developments.

I know the Ranger came up from Harpers Ferry. And from reports on White Blaze and elsewhere conditions have since improved. Not perfectly, I'm sure, because the proprietor appears to be one of those people who push the limits or ordinary decent behavior.

Weary

[Marta]

I enjoyed WHL, too. In '06 the "Tote Road" was a frog-filled canal. Many hikers went right past it, even if they had planned to visit WHL.

As a hiker, I appreciate clear markings and signage. I don't mind hiker services listing phone numbers in shelters, and putting markings pointing the way to their businesses. Instead of a flat-out ban of the practice, maybe there should be some consideration given to a standard of what is clear enough to benefit the hiker who is unfamiliar with the area and who might be looking for directions, while being "tasteful."

[MOWGLI]

Instead of a flat-out ban of the practice, maybe there should be some consideration given to a standard of what is clear enough to benefit the hiker who is unfamiliar with the area and who might be looking for directions, while being "tasteful."

Isn't that what the ALDHA book, Whiteblaze Pages and Wingfoots old publication are for?

[Blue Jay]

I've always enjoyed Bill and Linda and Ben and Pooh Bear. I consider them friends and always look forward to seeing them each year. I ALWAYS resupply there also. They have plenty of food on hand to get you to either Monson or Abol Bridge....which ever way you're heading. :)

I agree 100%, although I can't get there every year like some people. Every road crossing on the AT there are signs. Some say "curve", some say "STOP", some say "Speed 35". There is a sign in PA that says "LOOK OUT", which is my personal favorite. The claimed 2000 mile drive to threaten someone for a sign says volumes. OK, it's a rule, I don't want Mountain Dew signs all over the trail, and I'm sure he'd do it, however this is taking things into the Twilight Zone of anality. This is flat out a great place to stay, even with scary signs.

[TJ aka Teej]

WHL did, at one time in the past, place signs where the AT crossed the tote road. The trail to the boat landing was blazed in well down the tote road, well outside the AT corridor, and with the knowledge of the logging operation. That trail has been relocated a few times to keep hikers away from active logging sites.
I hiked past the tote road many times, but followed it in only once, as part of my ALDHA Companion field editor obligations. Nice folks, beautiful place, a must stop for those who wish to see what hiking the AT in Maine was like in the days of Myron Avery when the trail wound from sporting camp to sporting camp.
It is a shame to see complaints about service providers from people who have never been to the business in question and only have gossip to contribute.

[weary]

....The claimed 2000 mile drive to threaten someone for a sign says volumes. OK, it's a rule, I don't want Mountain Dew signs all over the trail, and I'm sure he'd do it, however this is taking things into the Twilight Zone of anality. ....
Come on. The Ranger showed up at the request of the MATC and the Overseer of that section after years and years of MATC trying to solve the violation amicably. Despite your claim to the contrary, your comment about "Twilight Zone of anality," essentially suggests that its okay with you that the trail be lined with commercial signs.

A few of us still go to the trail for an escape from commercialism. There is a great deal of difference between a sign at the intersection of the trail and a public road, and a sign in the middle of what many think of as the "hundred mile wilderness." Maintainers work to keep the trail as wild and as attractive as possible. Thousands devote a good part of their lives to the trail. They don't deserve mindless criticsm.

Weary

[Painted Turtle]

I have been there twice. The first time when my hiking buddy took a very bad fall and we had to get out and the next year when we came back to finish. Bill had to drive us out and pick us up the following year. It is a very long and a very difficult drive in and out of there. He has to use logging roads and woods roads. So the cost of resupply for him is high. The first time he was very nice to us and let us us the phone, but my understanding is he does not like to and the charge was high. All I remember is it was high. The second time I was there he was just OK. Like all people he has moods. Hamburger was very big two hand hold. Bunk house was nice. Shower was great. You get a ride back to the end of the lake almost at the trial, not like going in. Would I go back? Probably. Would I recommend it sure give it a 3 out of a 5 rating.

[MOWGLI]

Here's my take. Apparently, unapproved signs for this business were once put on the trail corridor. This presented a problem for MATC. It's also clear that some hikers consider the owners friends, the place is beautiful, and has good food too. I get all that.

Here's the problem. We can't start making exceptions for trail signage because we a) like someone b) they have good hamburgers c) They may sell cold drinks and ice cream d) simply because we feel like giving a particular business a pass.

This is a National Park, and needs to be managed as such. Go there if you want. Enjoy yourselves. But realize if you become an apologist for a business putting up signs on the trail, any business that feels like doing so should get the same pass. It's all or nothing. In cases like this, I'll always defer to the judgment of MATC, ATC, and the NPS.

That's why the ALDHA book, Troll's book, and Wingfoots old book are so helpful. They contain all the info you need to be able to find WHL and practically any other service provider along the trail.

All in all, it sounds like a great place. Personally, I liked the idea of carrying all my supplies from Monson to Abol Bridge. So I skipped it.

[saimyoji]

Here's the problem. We can't start making exceptions for trail signage because we a) like someone b) they have good hamburgers c) They may sell cold drinks and ice cream d) simply because we feel like giving a particular business a pass.

What about signs to commercial campgrounds along the trail? Blue Rocks near Hamburg and New Tripoli just north of 309 come to mind.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=13463&catid=member&imageuser=3920

[Jack Tarlin]

The Thru Hikers Handbook says nothing about maildrops there; the Thru-Hikers Companion very clearly says they DO NOT accept them. You could always call them to clarify this (207) 745-5116, but it sure looks to me that you should not send mail there.

[Painted Turtle]

The Thru Hikers Handbook says nothing about maildrops there; the Thru-Hikers Companion very clearly says they DO NOT accept them. You could always call them to clarify this (207) 745-5116, but it sure looks to me that you should not send mail there.

I agree reason; 1) Bill makes as few trips into town as possible your stuff could sit at the PO for a long time.

Also calling them may not work well. If I remember right ( I maybe wrong that would not be new) but he does not have a cell phone he has a satellite phone and limits the use as much as possible. Very expensive. One reason they do not answer e-mails in a timely manner.

[Sly]

What about signs to commercial campgrounds along the trail? Blue Rocks near Hamburg and New Tripoli just north of 309 come to mind.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=13463&catid=member&imageuser=3920

"New Tripoli Campsite" is a commercial crampground? Regardless, it's one simple wooden sign, not lots of orange ones.

[saimyoji]

"New Tripoli Campsite" is a commercial crampground? Regardless, it's one simple wooden sign, not lots of orange ones.
It may not be. I'm just askin'.

[Sly]

It may not be. I'm just askin'.

Me too! :)

[Marta]

Isn't that what the ALDHA book, Whiteblaze Pages and Wingfoots old publication are for?

The books can list hostels and whatnot but they cannot direct you to the correct gap in the trees when you're walking by.
It's one thing to hit Winding Stair Gap and know that heading east will take you to Franklin. It's entirely something else to pick out the correct unmarked "Tote Road" and be able to distinguish it from the dozen other unmarked logging roads in the area.

I completely agree that excessive advertising is a blight on the landscape. But I also think that it's possible to provide a useful amount of information available to the confused hiker/tourist without reaching the blight level.

Marta

[weary]

The books can list hostels and whatnot but they cannot direct you to the correct gap in the trees when you're walking by.
It's one thing to hit Winding Stair Gap and know that heading east will take you to Franklin. It's entirely something else to pick out the correct unmarked "Tote Road" and be able to distinguish it from the dozen other unmarked logging roads in the area.

I completely agree that excessive advertising is a blight on the landscape. But I also think that it's possible to provide a useful amount of information available to the confused hiker/tourist without reaching the blight level.

Marta
Of course. But it takes two to work out a reasonable solution. If the business insists on ignoring MATC efforts to find a middle ground, the NPS has to step in. Which it did after years of WHL arrogance. The situation had been discussed for years at MATC board meetings. We all recognized both the NPS rules, and the importance of hikers being informed.

However, MATC fundamentally disagreed with the implied argument of many White Blazers that: "This is a great place, so it should be allowed to do anything it wants."

Weary

[Blue Jay]

Weary, I respect your position. I just do not agree with it. The whole "slippery slope" argument, that one little sign reproduces itself into hundreds, does not work on the AT as almost the entire trail itself is a slippery slope. The journals in each shelter the entire length contain hundreds of little suggestions for places to stay in both directions. Using your slippery slope rule, what do we do burn them? In order to achieve your level of anticommercializm you would have to ban humans, from the "wilderness????"

[weary]

Weary, I respect your position. I just do not agree with it. The whole "slippery slope" argument, that one little sign reproduces itself into hundreds, does not work on the AT as almost the entire trail itself is a slippery slope. The journals in each shelter the entire length contain hundreds of little suggestions for places to stay in both directions. Using your slippery slope rule, what do we do burn them? In order to achieve your level of anticommercializm you would have to ban humans, from the "wilderness????"
Well, we start by keeping a dozen blaze orange signs off National Park Service land and trees in one of the wildest sections of the entire trail. I don't think I've used a slippery slope argument. I always sensed MATC was willing to cooperate with the business. The problem was the cooperation was all by one side. WHL essentially ignored us and did what they wanted. Business cards in the shelter for the business listing the lake, where it was located. And an MATC sign at the interesecting road, pointing how to get to the lake was one solution I would have voted for. The discussion by the MATC board of directors discussed this and other plausible ways of meeting our obligation to the NPS, and the needs of hikers and the business.

Yes, business cards in shelters are also technically banned, but it is an unenforced rule -- and an unenforceable rule -- as someone has pointed out. But a batch of signs tacked to trees is not a solution MATC could allow and still fulfill its promise to maintain and protect the trail, and keep it as wild as possible.

Weary

[Sly]

Reminds me of the South of the Border signs. You're 3 miles from Whitehouse Landing, You're 2.5 miles from WHL- Good Eats! You're 2.2 miles from WhiteHouse landing- Huge Burgers! You just past the side trail to WHL.

[Doughnut]

Reminds me of the South of the Border signs. You're 3 miles from Whitehouse Landing, You're 2.5 miles from WHL- Good Eats! You're 2.2 miles from WhiteHouse landing- Huge Burgers! You just past the side trail to WHL.


You never sausage a place, you're always a weiner at WHL,,, LOL

The signs for South of the Border are not as prevelant as they once were...


DoughNut

[Jack Tarlin]

Some quick thoughts:

*The Tripoli site is decidedly NOT commercial; the sign merely serves to tell
people about a nearby place to pitch a tent.

*Wolf is correct when he says that enforcement of the anti-signage rules is
spotty and inconsistent. Shaw's did indeed have a Trailside sign for many
years, and nobody, including the local Trail club, ever seemed to be overly
concerned about this.

*That being said, I tend to agree with Mowgli and Weary on this. Signs and
advertisements directly on the Trail or at shelters should certainly be
discouraged, as should the creation (or blazing) of side Trails that lead to
commercial sites or businesses.

*Signage or ads at trailheads or parking lots is a different matter; as long as
the signage is discreet, or better yet, on a kiosk or bulletin board, I can't
see why anyone would find this objectionable, especially if the ad or
notice pertained to a new business or service that wasn't listed in any
current Trail guide or handbook. This is the sort of ad or sign that would, in
fact, potentially benefit hikers, and if done appropriately, and in the right
location, I can't see why anyone would object to this. But signage directly
ON the Trai itself is generally not a good idea, and when a business or
entity seems entirely indifferent or scornful of the opinions and con-
cerns of the local Trail club, well in this case, I think it's perfectly OK to
object to this.

*Lastly, when someone has concerns about a Trailside business or facility,
and if these concerns are that significant, whether it involves rules and
regulations, or instead involves something like behavior towards customers,
in my experience, the single best way for someone to speak their mind is to
simply spend one's time and money at another place. In other words, it's
really simple: If you don't care for the way a place is doing business, then
you treat it the exact same way you'd treat a place back home: Don't
go there.

[A-Train]

Steve the Ferryman had a sign and a blazed trail cut down from the AT to his place in 2003. Is this still there and has anyone from MATC ever done anything to end this?

[Lone Wolf]

Steve the Ferryman had a sign and a blazed trail cut down from the AT to his place in 2003. Is this still there and has anyone from MATC ever done anything to end this?

i was just going to mention that

[Lone Wolf]

Greasy creek hostel in Tn. has a sign right on the trail too. there are lots of signs between ga. and me. right on the trail pointing towards businesses. here in damascus as come in NOBO and leave NOBO there are bright yellow wooden signs with jesus on the cross nailed to trees right on the trail

[weary]

Steve the Ferryman had a sign and a blazed trail cut down from the AT to his place in 2003. Is this still there and has anyone from MATC ever done anything to end this?
I don't have any idea. I don't recall it ever being discussed at MATC board meetings.

Weary

[Sly]

Steve the Ferryman had a sign and a blazed trail cut down from the AT to his place in 2003. Is this still there and has anyone from MATC ever done anything to end this?

I imagine some signs and side trails can be approved by the MATC, the ATC or the NPS. Not sure whether this is the case in this instance.

[Lone Wolf]

Steve the Ferryman had a sign and a blazed trail cut down from the AT to his place in 2003. Is this still there and has anyone from MATC ever done anything to end this?

isn't there a sign and marked trail to Harrison's Camps too?

[ozt42]

When I went through last year there were half a dozen blue blazed side trails in the 100 miles that didn't show up on the map and looked like side trails to fishing spots. I don't know which of the several commercial camp operations cut and blazed the trails but I did see a nice map that Namahkanta Lake Camps prints up that shows most of them...

The signage and blazing fight as I understand it was because Bill blazed the Mahar Tote Road with blue blazes so people could find the side trail they blaze (not cut they aren't allowed to cut trail only mark it). The tote road is a gravel road that dead ends at a campsite on the lake. I was told no one ever told them what WAS allowed for signage, the maintainers just pulled down the various solutions they put up, including a couple of professionally painted signs they put up under the tote road sign, a small rock with "WHL" and a arrow painted on it that they placed in the middle of the tote road and smaller signs they attached to the tote road sign itself. They currently staple a business card to the tote road sign and all of their blazes and signs are out of sight of the AT 1/4 mile down the tote road.

They do try to find exactly where the line for "allowed" is and get as close to it as possible. They are trying to attract customers, I would too. They don't stay long past the hiking season anymore, their customers are almost exclusively hikers they stopped catering to hunters because as Linda put it, "dead deer don't mix well with hikers." So, the hiker crowd is 95% of their business and the trail is the only way for hikers to get to them.

I found them to be hospitable, their prices within reason for the location and I had a great time while I was there.

[Skidsteer]

Reminds me of the South of the Border signs. You're 3 miles from Whitehouse Landing, You're 2.5 miles from WHL- Good Eats! You're 2.2 miles from WhiteHouse landing- Huge Burgers! You just past the side trail to WHL.

Now that's a funny analogy!


You never sausage a place, you're always a weiner at WHL,,, LOL

The signs for South of the Border are not as prevelant as they once were...


DoughNut

Still hard to miss though. One every couple of miles it seems. Sometimes more.

[The Old Fhart]

Lone Wolf-'isn't there a sign and marked trail to Harrison's Camps too?"Once when I went by that trail junction one of the kids at the camp had put up a cardboard lemonade sign with a price on it. I hope that piece of crass commercialism was quickly squashed!:rolleyes:

[Walkie Talkie]

Once when I went by that trail junction one of the kids at the camp had put up a cardboard lemonade sign with a price on it. I hope that piece of crass commercialism was quickly squashed!:rolleyes:

That kid should be shut down. I also have seen obnoxious signs from boyscouts giving trail magic. Will this commercialism never end?

[Blissful]

Steve the Ferryman had a sign and a blazed trail cut down from the AT to his place in 2003. Is this still there and has anyone from MATC ever done anything to end this?


Isn't his place closed now?

[Blissful]

isn't there a sign and marked trail to Harrison's Camps too?


Never saw a sign per say. But it is advertised at the Pierce Pond shelter that I recall.

[Sly]

I think the point is one unobtrusive sign OK, a bunch of blaze orange ones, not OK.

[woodsy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Train http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=669441#post669441)
Steve the Ferryman had a sign and a blazed trail cut down from the AT to his place in 2003. Is this still there and has anyone from MATC ever done anything to end this?



Isn't his place closed now?

yup, for sale too.

[Lone Wolf]

I think the point is one unobtrusive sign OK, a bunch of blaze orange ones, not OK.

but the NPS says NO signs, not local clubs playing favorites

[TJ aka Teej]

isn't there a sign and marked trail to Harrison's Camps too?
ayup:
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=1329&catid=member&imageuser=314

[stumpknocker]

I think the point is one unobtrusive sign OK, a bunch of blaze orange ones, not OK.

Hey Sly, when were those orange signs there? I've never seen anything but a business card when I've gone through each year....except in '02 when there wasn't anything and I took the wrong path for a while.

If I was disappointed in anything in the 100 mile wilderness, it was that I almost always see people drive right up to where it's taken me days to walk. It's not all that hard to hitch a ride out of the area. I've known a few hikers who started sobo hikes that had enough and had no problems getting out. I also know people who drive in and leave food drops at several road crossings.


Those are fine people out there at White House Landing. I was hiking with a friend who left a headlamp there accidently and when I walked into Abol Bridge Campground, Linda said that Linda Ware had had it flown in when Katahdin Air stopped by. She went out of her way to make sure the headlamp was at Abol Bridge Campground waiting on us.

That's exactly the kind of hiker friendly people I want to be around and will support. :)

[TJ aka Teej]

Steve the Ferryman had a sign and a blazed trail cut down from the AT to his place in 2003. Is this still there and has anyone from MATC ever done anything to end this?

Yes, still there as of '06. I don't know the answer to the second half of the question.

[Sly]

Hey Sly, when were those orange signs there? I've never seen anything but a business card when I've gone through each year....except in '02 when there wasn't anything and I took the wrong path for a while.


Not sure, I'm just going on what Weary said. WHL wasn't an option when I passed through in '98. Everything else about WHL sounds good but as I've been saying all along, I have a problem with over signage (especially commercial on public lands) and over blazing. If I make it back to the 100 Wilderness I'm sure I'll check out WHL.

Since you've been there just about every year since 2002 and didn't notice them, maybe Weary needs to answer your question.

[saimyoji]

Yes, business cards in shelters are also technically banned, but it is an unenforced rule -- and an unenforceable rule -- as someone has pointed out. But a batch of signs tacked to trees is not a solution MATC could allow and still fulfill its promise to maintain and protect the trail, and keep it as wild as possible.

Weary

There were business cards in the Bake Oven Knob shelter for a private B&B the last time I was there (a week or 2). They mentioned reservations required....

[Lone Wolf]

ayup:
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=1329&catid=member&imageuser=314

hmmm. that's OK though? weary?

[Lone Wolf]

ayup:
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=1329&catid=member&imageuser=314

seems the MATC condones signs for select businesses

[weary]

hmmm. that's OK though? weary?
All I know about WHL is the periodic discussions at meetings of the Board of Directors of MATC.

The issue is usually brought up by Rick St. Croix, who is overseer of the final 60 miles of the trail in Maine, and who with his wife Rachel maintain several miles of the trail in the Wilderness and in Baxter Park.

Rick is a very dedicated worker on behalf of the trail. As Overseer he recruits and supervises the work of a couple of dozen trail maintainers. His day job is as a blue collar paper mill worker.

After his last complaint MATC persuaded the Ranger from Harpers Ferry to pay a visit. The signs over the years have been up and down, so I'm not surprised that some hikers didn't see them in years past. Rick has taken the signs down. Maintainers have taken the signs down. The rules say the maintainers are supposed to remove everything left on the trail, or in the shelters.

I don't know anything about other signs in Maine that may, or may not, be legal.

Weary

[Lone Wolf]

if the ATC targets 1 service provider then they should target ALL providers equally in regards to signage and blazing in the AT corridor. reading this thread gives the impression the MATC has a beef against WHL specifically and other places in maine that have signs up are overlooked

[TJ aka Teej]

LW,
As you know, different sections of trail are maintained/overseen by different humans. What bugs one human a lot might not bother another human at all. The AMC's mid-wilderness recreational development at Little Lyford Pond has cut multi-use trails inside the AT corridor, even intersecting the AT itself and posting AMC signage, with no complaints at all from the MATC, for instance.

[TJ aka Teej]

MATC persuaded the Ranger from Harpers Ferry to pay a visit.
Weary, part of Ranger Remelay's job is to make trips into the field year-round all along the AT corridor. You make it sound as though he was summonded from West Virginia to come all the way to Maine to deal specificaly with this one single complaint. That wasn't the case, was it?

[TJ aka Teej]

There were business cards in the Bake Oven Knob shelter for a private B&B the last time I was there (a week or 2). They mentioned reservations required....

Were they posted next to the fax machine? You know, to make making reservations easier? :D

[weary]

LW,
As you know, different sections of trail are maintained/overseen by different humans. What bugs one human a lot might not bother another human at all. The AMC's mid-wilderness recreational development at Little Lyford Pond has cut multi-use trails inside the AT corridor, even intersecting the AT itself and posting AMC signage, with no complaints at all from the MATC, for instance.
So far AMC has been the most responsible neighbor of the trail in Maine. All of the new intersecting trails have been approved by MATC and the National Park Service, which owns the corridor lands.

All have been reviewed by Dave Field, former president of the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, and MATC's official contact with AMC. I'm chair of the Maine Chapter, AMC, Maine Woods Initiative committee. So far AMC's cooperation has been great.

I'm especially pleased that early worries about major development in the wilderness have proved to be unfounded. I'm not sure whether my recommendations -- or simple economics -- have been deciding principles.

But I've been extremely pleased with the AMC decision to rebuild existing sporting camps, rather than doing new construction. It's my prediction that the nonprofit AMC rebuilt camps will soon give hikers their best experience of the trail in Maine as it existed 60 and 70 years ago.

I suspect they won't be serving one pound, $8 hamburgers -- but that didn't happen in the 30s either. MATC crews are building a new shelter on the new AMC lands this summer.

AMC is not my favorite organization. But we should provide praise when praise is deserved.

Weary

[TJ aka Teej]

. It's my prediction that the nonprofit AMC rebuilt camps will soon give hikers their best experience of the trail in Maine as it existed 60 and 70 years ago.
I suspect they woin't be serving one pound, $8 hamburgers -- but that didn't happen in the 30s either.
So the beef with WHL has to do with direct competition with the MATC's approved AMC pro-huge-revenue recreational development at Little Lyford? 60 or 70 years ago, was it normal to pay $77 a night (tax not included) for a one-night bunk at a camp in Maine? And that's not even at the recently constructed main lodge! This anti-WHL crusade comes down to the MATC taking sides with the drive-up SUV/$80 Chardonnay set v. the hike-in boots/$8 burger bunch? Perhaps WHL should've funded several MATC retreats at their place. But that's just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

I think we might best serve the thread's topic to keep the focus on reports from recent year's first person contacts with Whitehouse Landing.

[saimyoji]

well they know most hikers carry cell phones, and there are cell towers all along the kittatiny ridge.

[earlyriser26]

I've not yet had the opportunity to hike the "wilderness", but have done the rest of Maine. I even maintained a section there in the 1970's. As long as the signs are not orange and just give distance and direction I'm all for them. There are way too many real intrusions on the trail to get your undies in a bunch over this. Also, while some have not liked WHL because of price or a bad experience, I'm glad hikers have places like this they can use. Hikers always expect Walmart prices with Four Seasons service.

[weary]

So the beef with WHL has to do with direct competition with the MATC's approved AMC pro-huge-revenue recreational development at Little Lyford? 60 or 70 years ago, was it normal to pay $77 a night (tax not included) for a one-night bunk at a camp in Maine? And that's not even at the recently constructed main lodge! This anti-WHL crusade comes down to the MATC taking sides with the drive-up SUV/$80 Chardonnay set v. the hike-in boots/$8 burger bunch? ......
Actually, Teej, as I'm sure you know, there's no connection whatsoever, between MATC's objection to illegal signs posted by WHL on National Park Service lands and AMC's protection of 37,000 acres of the 100-mile-wilderness.

WHL for years lessened the sense of wilderness in the area by posting commercial signs along the trail. AMC has enhanced the sense of wilderness by setting aside 10,000 acres for an ever wild preserve, and increased public enjoyment by building trails, constructing a new leanto shelter for hikers, and restoring several century-old sporting camps.

Weary

[warraghiyagey]

For the third straight year I've been through the area. Stopped the first year. Not since. It's on a hiking trail. It's good for hikers if they choose. Simply put.;)

[TJ aka Teej]

A thread for the AMC's Little Lyford Pond Camps is located at:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=670059#post670059

[Blue Jay]

Actually, Teej, as I'm sure you know, there's no connection whatsoever, between MATC's objection to illegal signs posted by WHL on National Park Service lands and AMC's protection of 37,000 acres of the 100-mile-wilderness.

WHL for years lessened the sense of wilderness in the area by posting commercial signs along the trail. AMC has enhanced the sense of wilderness by setting aside 10,000 acres for an ever wild preserve, and increased public enjoyment by building trails, constructing a new leanto shelter for hikers, and restoring several century-old sporting camps.

Weary

The connection is that the AMC gives the MATC money, nothing wrong with that, but when someone gives you money it gets your attention. I seem to remeber quite a few signs directing hikers to certain, how do I say it, HUTS in the Whites. The AMC makes money from huts. Would that make them COMMERCIAL? Looks like your "sense of wilderness" is crumbling, but since it's the AMC it's OK. Checkmate.

[Lone Wolf]

The connection is that the AMC gives the MATC money, nothing wrong with that, but when someone gives you money it gets your attention. I seem to remeber quite a few signs directing hikers to certain, how do I say it, HUTS in the Whites. The AMC makes money from huts. Would that make them COMMERCIAL? Looks like your "sense of wilderness" is crumbling, but since it's the AMC it's OK. Checkmate.

The AMC is a non-profit org., they're good for the White mountains

[rafe]

I seem to remeber quite a few signs directing hikers to certain, how do I say it, HUTS in the Whites.

Really? I remember the usual trail signs... but nothing special or unusual. I mean, there are trail signs all along the trail indicating distances to this-or-that shelter or campsite. I don't see where the AMC huts are (or should be) any different.

[weary]

The connection is that the AMC gives the MATC money, nothing wrong with that, but when someone gives you money it gets your attention. I seem to remeber quite a few signs directing hikers to certain, how do I say it, HUTS in the Whites. The AMC makes money from huts. Would that make them COMMERCIAL? Looks like your "sense of wilderness" is crumbling, but since it's the AMC it's OK. Checkmate.
Joy Street, (Boston) AMC has never given MATC any money that I know of. And I can't imagine it happening without my being aware of it, since I'm certainly involved with the MATC finances on a regular basis.

From time to time I ask the Maine Chapter, AMC, to make $500 donations from AMC member dues to the MATC, since the Maine Chapter has done very little over the decades towards significant trail maintenance, and MATC has done wonderful work on the trails that all AMC members use.

The signs to the huts in the Whites are entirely out of my per view. The so called "wilderness" we are talking about is 250 miles to the north in Maine. AMC in the Whites is totally controlled by the National Forest Service, which owns the land. That's one reason the club bought 37,000 acres -- to see if it could do better without "Big Brother" looking over their shoulders.

But the AMC, Forest SErvice seems to be an amicable relationship, so I've never spent a great deal of time thinking about it.

I really have never spent a great deal of time, analyzing the finances in the Whites. I do recall Forest SErvice testifying that it couldn't possibly manage the Whites without the help of AMC. I've yet to hear evidence to the contrary, so I assume the Forest Service testimony was accurate.

But this has absolutely nothing to do with WHL illegally posting signs on NPS lands in Maine.

Weary

[ponyboyscott]

My wife and i are headed north from monson in Sept. Does anyone know about how many miles from monson is the whitehouse landing. We're thinking of re-supplying there. Thanks, ponyboy:sun

[Jack Tarlin]

The road to White House landing is called the Mahar Tote Road. It is just over 68 and a half Trail miles from ME 15 (the Monson road/trailhead).

[kanga]

stopped by WHL last month on my hike. absolutely INCREDIBLE place! i ended up staying 3 days just because i loved the feel so much. bill and linda were more than friendly to me, in fact it was the closest thing to home that i've hit on the trail. as for the stories i've read here about bill being grumpy, well, if someone's an ass to me, i'm usually going to give it right back to them and i don't suspect he's any different. lots of thru-hikers have an entitlement problem. he (they both) showed me the utmost respect and friendliness and went way out of their way to make my stay perfect. the pizza is fantastic, the facilites are unbelievably clean, the beer is cold, and considering how far out they are, the prices are far more than reasonable. it's just one of those places i'll visit again and again when i'm up doing that section.

[Spot In The Sky]

Can anyone tell me how far into the 100 mile wilderness Mahar Tote Road is? Looking through the AT Data Book 2009, there is NO info on this road or resupply stop, but shouldnt there be?
Going SoBo Im considering this as a place to resupply or stay but I am just not sure how far it is from Abol bridge?

Thanks team!

[stumpknocker]

stopped by WHL last month on my hike. absolutely INCREDIBLE place! i ended up staying 3 days just because i loved the feel so much. bill and linda were more than friendly to me, in fact it was the closest thing to home that i've hit on the trail. as for the stories i've read here about bill being grumpy, well, if someone's an ass to me, i'm usually going to give it right back to them and i don't suspect he's any different. lots of thru-hikers have an entitlement problem. he (they both) showed me the utmost respect and friendliness and went way out of their way to make my stay perfect. the pizza is fantastic, the facilites are unbelievably clean, the beer is cold, and considering how far out they are, the prices are far more than reasonable. it's just one of those places i'll visit again and again when i'm up doing that section.

My favorite place on the entire AT!!

[stumpknocker]

Can anyone tell me how far into the 100 mile wilderness Mahar Tote Road is? Looking through the AT Data Book 2009, there is NO info on this road or resupply stop, but shouldnt there be?
Going SoBo Im considering this as a place to resupply or stay but I am just not sure how far it is from Abol bridge?

Thanks team!

It's about 30 miles from Abol.

[Spot In The Sky]

It's about 30 miles from Abol.

Thanks...so if Abol bridge is 15 miles from Mt. K, does it make sense for me to start my hike with 3-4 days worth of food, go to WHL and resupply there for the rest of the 100 mile (70 miles left)?

[Lone Wolf]

Can anyone tell me how far into the 100 mile wilderness Mahar Tote Road is? Looking through the AT Data Book 2009, there is NO info on this road or resupply stop, but shouldnt there be?
Going SoBo Im considering this as a place to resupply or stay but I am just not sure how far it is from Abol bridge?

Thanks team!
it's 30.9 miles from abol bridge. listed in the Data Book as Logging Road (C,L,M 1m E)

[Tinker]

stopped by WHL last month on my hike. absolutely INCREDIBLE place! i ended up staying 3 days just because i loved the feel so much. bill and linda were more than friendly to me, in fact it was the closest thing to home that i've hit on the trail. as for the stories i've read here about bill being grumpy, well, if someone's an ass to me, i'm usually going to give it right back to them and i don't suspect he's any different. lots of thru-hikers have an entitlement problem. he (they both) showed me the utmost respect and friendliness and went way out of their way to make my stay perfect. the pizza is fantastic, the facilites are unbelievably clean, the beer is cold, and considering how far out they are, the prices are far more than reasonable. it's just one of those places i'll visit again and again when i'm up doing that section.

In 2008 I stopped by there. Bill wasn't feeling too well (he suffers from gout, if I'm remembering correctly, and is in pain much of the time).

We all need to think about what is bugging others before we let them bug us (it's called having compassion).:)

Whitehouse Landing is a wonderful place. I only stopped there to avoid the remnants of a tropical storm (on my wife's insistance).
Glad I did.
AND......... we all have bad days - even when we TRY our best. :)

[envirodiver]

Thanks...so if Abol bridge is 15 miles from Mt. K, does it make sense for me to start my hike with 3-4 days worth of food, go to WHL and resupply there for the rest of the 100 mile (70 miles left)?

They have limited resupply. You can save a few days of food, but depending upon how many days you plan to take to hike the 70 miles, I wouldn't figure on getting more than 2-3 days of resupply.

Unless you don't mind eating the same foods.

[stumpknocker]

I always leave there packing a full pizza wrapped up in my pack. :)

I always resupply there too with no problems for a sobo.

[Treefingers]

WHL is awsome, great food, fun boat ride, canoes to take out on the lake to see katadin, wood fired cabin to stay in, hot showers, AT book and mag library. not cheap but how can you put a price on an oasis in the 100 mile wilderness. when i got there in '06 i wasn't planning on stopping until i fell off a bog bridge into a mud pit and was waist deep in slop with my long johns on and had no other clothes. the have a wash bin and a laundry mangle as well. you only have to pay for the food you eat, showers and lodging. they take credit cards too. very nice people and i would go back in a heartbeat if i was given the opportunity. hope you stop in and enjoy this piece of AT history

[Red Hat]

Treefingers, your description of falling off bog bridges, brings back memories.... bogs, not so pleasant... WHL, great!

[naturejunkie]

I stopped at WHL going SOBO in 2008. I took a zero there and resupplied. I don't think I could have had a more positive experience. I plan on stopping there again this year and would not hesitate to recommend it to others.

[Spot In The Sky]

So if I were to stay at Abol Bridge camp site, then go to Rainbow Stream lean to which is like 15 miles away- then WHL is 15 miles from Rainbow Stream which means I would have to hike all day to reach the WHL boat pick up spot- would I be arriving there too late or is 15 miles of hiking still get me there early enough if i start early?
I realize this is a vague question, Im just trying to figure out my stuff.
Thanks for your patience team!

[vonfrick]

The books can list hostels and whatnot but they cannot direct you to the correct gap in the trees when you're walking by.
It's one thing to hit Winding Stair Gap and know that heading east will take you to Franklin. It's entirely something else to pick out the correct unmarked "Tote Road" and be able to distinguish it from the dozen other unmarked logging roads in the area.


after namankanta stream campsite, ford two streams, the second is a cakewalk compared to the first, walk about a mile until you step into the road clearing. you'll know you're there when you wade into the biggest mud puddle in maine. head left.


isn't there a sign and marked trail to Harrison's Camps too?


Never saw a sign per say. But it is advertised at the Pierce Pond shelter that I recall.

that sign is on tim's property- not on the trail.

[Rain Man]

My wife and i are headed north from monson in Sept. Does anyone know about how many miles from monson is the whitehouse landing. We're thinking of re-supplying there. Thanks, ponyboy:sun

Care to give a report on how your hike went? Just wondering. Sounds like a nice time to be there!

Here are a few pics below from Sept '04. Not me, but my daughter's hike.

Rain:sunMan

.

[naturejunkie]

So if I were to stay at Abol Bridge camp site, then go to Rainbow Stream lean to which is like 15 miles away- then WHL is 15 miles from Rainbow Stream which means I would have to hike all day to reach the WHL boat pick up spot- would I be arriving there too late or is 15 miles of hiking still get me there early enough if i start early?
I realize this is a vague question, Im just trying to figure out my stuff.
Thanks for your patience team!

Personally, I would take my time and get there the next morning between breakfast and lunch. Take a "Nero" there and fatten up on lunch, dinner and breakfast the next morning before heading back to the trail. The wilderness is amazing, take a little extra time and enjoy it. Also, allow for weather delays. As funny as that sounds, significant rain and mud can slow you down. Cheers!

[Shutterbug]

So if I were to stay at Abol Bridge camp site, then go to Rainbow Stream lean to which is like 15 miles away- then WHL is 15 miles from Rainbow Stream which means I would have to hike all day to reach the WHL boat pick up spot- would I be arriving there too late or is 15 miles of hiking still get me there early enough if i start early?
I realize this is a vague question, Im just trying to figure out my stuff.
Thanks for your patience team!

I did that hike last August. For me, 12 miles a day was about right, so I arrived at White House Landing in time for lunch on the third day.

[jurahd]

I just watched a thruhike on YouTube (Evan)from 2018 and was happy to know the place was still open. I stayed in 2008 and found the place wonderful. There are many thruhikers that feel pretty entitled, who lack empathy and basically even at this late nobo still sleaze bags. It's surprising to me still, you'd think they would've learned on the long trek. So many great places have closed especially in the expensive mid section. WHL is unique, beautifully set and a joy. Grumpy owners ? Hah. I agree with all the fine put downs of such attitudes, well said.

[LazyLightning]

I stayed 2 days before they closed this Oct at the end of my thru-hike. I thought the owners were very nice and friendly, the husband just seemed busy but they were cool. They were telling us how just doing lunch/resuply killed them having to go back and fourth across the lake all the time. They closed for some time and reopened to overnight hikers only now. People say stuff is pricey but I didn't think it was bad being in the middle of nowhere. The burger and homemade pizza are awesome. They also allow you to send a resupply to them for free, allowing plenty of time as they don't go to town often. That was perfect for me as Abol was closed so that resupply got me up Katahdin and then a few days hiking around the area till I got picked up. They now give you a complementary joint or cookie for staying and you could even get a little safety supply with a donation or buying a $40 lighter or something (all totally legal in ME)…. but the stuff really wasn't the greatest so I wouldn't look forward to counting on that. That's not a complaint though, awesome place and so cool of them to offer the free boat ride, resupply and a 'complimentary' for staying.

[PGH1NC]

Trying to find some current information on White House Landing. Is there a website or other visual contact. to find current rates, facilities, etc. Trying to design a slack pack hike for the first 50-60 miles south of Baxter State Park. Is there a Harrison Camps?

[PGH1NC]

Trying to find some current information on White House Landing. Is there a website or other visual contact. to find current rates, facilities, etc. Trying to design a slack pack hike for the first 50-60 miles south of Baxter State Park. Is there a Harrison Camps?

What is the Rainbow Lake Campsites metioned in AWOL at SoBo mile 26.3?

[TJ aka Teej]

White House Landing no longer serves AT hikers.

Is there a Harrison Camps?
Yes. South of the Kennebec.

[TJ aka Teej]

What is the Rainbow Lake Campsites metioned in AWOL at SoBo mile 26.3?
They're campsites on Rainbow Lake.

[Captain Blue]

Trying to find some current information on White House Landing.

Reach out to them on Facebook Messenger. Look up Whitehouse Landing Camps. That's how I contacted them last year. They were quite speedy with replies.

[PGH1NC]

Opps, I meant AWOL 24.8 it says "Unmarked trail (.2 mi.) to Rainbow lake camps 'private.'"