View Full Version : Survival Camping
Rag-Tag Jack
10-23-2009, 15:26
I'm planning on doing a thru-hike from Georgia to Maine this coming summer. I know there are campsites and official places to camp. But Can I free camp?
Is it illegal to camp off the trail? I want to do a survival style camping situation without using modern convinces such as campgrounds. I plan on bringing emergency supplies such as personal medic kits and reserve M.R.E's.
But is it Illegal to do this? Do I have to camp in designated areas or do I only have to avoid areas where it is posted that I am not allowed to camp?
First, not sure what you mean by "survival" camps. Do you plan on using primitive skills ala Tom Brown? Making base camp with a fire? Hunting/gathering? I'm not being sarcastic..just honestly curious as to what your definition of survival camping may be.
Having said that...
There are often spots for camping near the shelters (but not always). In many places along the trail, there are great flat spots to get away from the crowded shelters and offer great views in addition to solitude.
In some places such as New Hampshire and Vermont, fragile and/or high use areas are pay sites. Areas near the sites may have restricted camping.
The AT databook will often list good campsites that are not at shelters as an FYI. The various guidebooks will list which sites are pay sites.
As for MREs. You may want to think of different food. MREs area bit heavy, kind of expensive and bulky. The military uses them for their soldiers..but the soldiers are using motorized transport for carrying the meals! :) When the military has their soldiers hoof it over long distances, they use meals not far different from commercial backpacker meals.
http://www.wornick.com/military/MCWLRP.html
http://www.dscp.dla.mil/subs/rations/programs/mcw/mcwabt.asp
Your local grocery store will have light, inexpensive and decent food more suitable for backpacking vs. an MRE.
beakerman
10-23-2009, 16:35
MRE's pack a big calorie punch (somehting like 1100 to 1500 each if I recall correctly) but are truely heavy...even I don't carry them and I am not anything like UL. They are fine for short hauls but as a "back-up" you will be humping them most of the way--assuming you don't eat them right away and you replace tehm when you do eat them. That is a large weight penatly. Just my opinion of MRE's.
i haven't done a thru yet on the AT but I'm sure someone else will be along to answer your camping question. My understanding is there are a few sections that are regulated when it comes to camping but I defere to others with more AT miles....
beakerman
10-23-2009, 16:36
dang it mags you hit post before me....
Rag-Tag Jack
10-23-2009, 16:59
First, not sure what you mean by "survival" camps. Do you plan on using primitive skills ala Tom Brown? Making base camp with a fire? Hunting/gathering? I'm not being sarcastic..just honestly curious as to what your definition of survival camping may be.
Having said that...
There are often spots for camping near the shelters (but not always). In many places along the trail, there are great flat spots to get away from the crowded shelters and offer great views in addition to solitude.
In some places such as New Hampshire and Vermont, fragile and/or high use areas are pay sites. Areas near the sites may have restricted camping.
The AT databook will often list good campsites that are not at shelters as an FYI. The various guidebooks will list which sites are pay sites.
As for MREs. You may want to think of different food. MREs area bit heavy, kind of expensive and bulky. The military uses them for their soldiers..but the soldiers are using motorized transport for carrying the meals! :) When the military has their soldiers hoof it over long distances, they use meals not far different from commercial backpacker meals.
http://www.wornick.com/military/MCWLRP.html
http://www.dscp.dla.mil/subs/rations/programs/mcw/mcwabt.asp
Your local grocery store will have light, inexpensive and decent food more suitable for backpacking vs. an MRE.
Yes. I plan on pretty much living off the land by primitive skills. Thanks for the update on MREs. I knew they were big but I didn't know what options I had. As far as the price, my uncle sells them and would give me a huge discount.
I pretty much plan on using basic equipment, such as an A-frame and a sleeping bag, so doing this in a campsite would defeat the purpose. Solitude is a must. As far as hunting/gathering goes I plan on using edible plants, eating snakes and squirrels and fish. I plan to fish using the survival knife spear method.
Pretty much the whole point of this is to survive in natural manner without the aid of modern tech if i can help it.
Yes. I plan on pretty much living off the land by primitive skills.
In a heavily used area like most (if not all) the AT corridor, you may find this method to not work too well.
You may want to check out this thread:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53946&highlight=living+land
dang it mags you hit post before me....
Too many copy and paste posts over the years. :)
(I gleefully admit to recycling my posts/articles/whatever over and over again. :D)
/Hike turned into a trail run..damn, I feel good...
Can you explain what you mean by "survival camping?"
You can camp for no money amost all the way. In parts of the White Mountains you are required to stay at designated sites for a fee. Yes, there MAY BE WAYS to stay at SOME of these sites if you do a work-for-stay, BUT let me communicate in no uncertain terms this IS NOT GUARANTEED. Camping in non-designated camping sites in some areas, and not just in the White Mountains, is both illegal, and yes, these areas are patrolled, some vigorously so, and gives ALL hikers and the hiking community a bad rap when you are caught. I get the feeling that you don't want to hear this and are not going to accept this reasoning, but if you are intending to hike 2200 miles through the woods over the mountains in 14 states you should have sufficient funds set aside for thru-hiking. There are many threads and well written articles here at WB that go into great detail about how much a thru-hike costs. Even though there are many different ways to hike or how much to spend I strongly suggest that it's necessary that you read these threads and articles and prepare for your hike. There will be many new things you will learn that you have not yet thought of.
Not saying you are in either one of these groups, but I ocassionaly come across a homeless person or one who wishes to hike ala Survivalist Style(basically meaning living off the land so to speak, I call it being a hobo, usually this style is ignorantly adopted after glancing through a survivalist oriented book or made for Hollywood TV show). After a very short time, when the romance of adventure begins to wear off, they come to the realization that living this way for 2220 miles through the woods is much harder than they ever thought and were not prepared for in the first place, no matter what style or method they originally adopted or intended!
Rag-Tag Jack
10-23-2009, 17:27
In a heavily used area like most (if not all) the AT corridor, you may find this method to not work too well.
You may want to check out this thread:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53946&highlight=living+land
Actually after reading the thread it seems not only possible to do this but also live this way. I've often thought of working seasonally and living wild in the summers. The hunter/gatherer part may be hard, but that depends on knowledge and experience i think. And I wouldn't do this on the trail. I have experience in orienteering. I would periodically leave the trail to collect food in the wilderness and camp.
Rag-Tag Jack
10-23-2009, 17:37
Can you explain what you mean by "survival camping?"
You can camp for no money amost all the way. In parts of the White Mountains you are required to stay at designated sites for a fee. Yes, there MAY BE WAYS to stay at SOME of these sites if you do a work-for-stay, BUT let me communicate in no uncertain terms this IS NOT GUARANTEED. Camping in non-designated camping sites in some areas, and not just in the White Mountains, is both illegal, and yes, these areas are patrolled, some vigorously so, and gives ALL hikers and the hiking community a bad rap when you are caught. I get the feeling that you don't want to hear this and are not going to accept this reasoning, but if you are intending to hike 2200 miles through the woods over the mountains in 14 states you should have sufficient funds set aside for thru-hiking. There are many threads and well written articles here at WB that go into great detail about how much a thru-hike costs. Even though there are many different ways to hike or how much to spend I strongly suggest that it's necessary that you read these threads and articles and prepare for your hike. There will be many new things you will learn that you have not yet thought of.
Not saying you are in either one of these groups, but I ocassionaly come across a homeless person or one who wishes to hike ala Survivalist Style(basically meaning living off the land so to speak, I call it being a hobo, usually this style is ignorantly adopted after glancing through a survivalist oriented book or made for Hollywood TV show). After a very short time, when the romance of adventure begins to wear off, they come to the realization that living this way for 2220 miles through the woods is much harder than they ever thought and were not prepared for in the first place, no matter what style or method they originally adopted or intended!
I guess I'll have to read up more on which parks and areas prohibit camping off site. As far as the hobo thing goes, I just plan on doing this for the summer with sufficent funds for emergencies or if i switch up my camping style. And I know what you mean. I was inspired by "Into the Wild" to hitchike cross country and i did it very succesfully. But I learned the importance of social responsibility as well. I would love to live wild in off seasons. But I do intend on getting my college education and getting a career.
Actually after reading the thread it seems not only possible to do this but also live this way. I've often thought of working seasonally and living wild in the summers. The hunter/gatherer part may be hard, but that depends on knowledge and experience i think. And I wouldn't do this on the trail. I have experience in orienteering. I would periodically leave the trail to collect food in the wilderness and camp.
You may be surprised. :)
If you want to be a hunter/gatherer (nevermind the legal issues in the AT corridor) there are probably easier areas to do it in than the AT area.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do...
Rag-Tag Jack
10-23-2009, 18:20
You may be surprised. :)
If you want to be a hunter/gatherer (nevermind the legal issues in the AT corridor) there are probably easier areas to do it in than the AT area.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do...
Thank you. But I want the best of both worlds. and it will be nice to run into other hikers. Maybe I'll even meet you Mags. that would be interesting as you seem to have a lot of knowledge. If you see a scruffy, brown hair, blue eyed kid going by the name of Jack Sage, it'll be me. And yeah, that's not my real name. But I use it online and when I talk to people I haven't known longer than five days.
People who know me well say I am full of something. Knowledge ain't it....
I always wonder the persons age when they talk about "surviving" off the land. Maybe i'm old,lol.
The AT corridor is heavily populated, sparsely wooded, and generally a thin strip of nature in the midst of cities and towns. Of course you can go off-grid. But the big game that makes off-grid living a real possibility has long been hunted to near extinction, especially along this corridor. Seems to me you're either situated and hunting an area in which you are living, or you are hiking through an area, and there really isn't time for laying snares, pulling them up when you move, and taking proper care of the the higher placeholders of the food chain. And who wants to be a daisy or a woodchuck, when there's bear, moose and serious bucks in the area?
HYOH, but bring yer own pre-dead food items, unless you are staying to smoke them and take them with you, albeit slowly.
Ranc0r
.
FYI
When hiking thru the Great Smokies you will have to camp at designated shelters or campsites. Hikers who hike off any trail in the Smokies must obtain a special cross-country permit, available only from designated park rangers. A person really needs to know what he or she is doing to obtain this type of permit and file a hike plan with the rangers. For further info contact the GSMNP backcountry office (865) 436-1231.
Off trail would be bushwhacking on not on the AT.
Happy Trails,
Chip :)
Sorry for the typo.
Bushwhacking would be off the trail and not on the AT.:)
Wise Old Owl
10-23-2009, 20:37
After watching Bear Grills & Les Stroud and Ray Meyers for a couple of years and reading several books on the subject, if you can hike the trail and avoid yog'ing & dumpster diving I wish you a lot of luck. Even Les got tired of starving himself during the shows. I am not saying it isn't possible - just terribly impractical.
Simple idea-gee Indians lived here for 100 of thousand years, but they had something different going on. They had a community where everyone had different tasks, but as a group they had survival. Gathering nuts, honey, fruits, and occasionally fresh meat, while others plant or sew corn seeds to reap the benefit in the long term. There was time because they were not on the move. They only moved when they ran out of food or other resources.
Recent discoveries in science discovered people came to this continent not so much by a land bridge, but by traveling by boat and farming rich sea life by kelp beds just off the coast. With that in mind I find fault with the whole idea of survival while hiking. Partially because you will be burning far more calories than you can take time to gather.
Rag Tag Jack, great you talk about wanting to live off the land, you know the importance of social responsibility, and you want to go to college. All sounds admirable. I really wish you well with your pursuits, but, when you also make statements like: "as far as hunting/gathering goes I plan on using edible plants, eating snakes and squirrels and fish. I plan to fish using the survival knife spear method"
and " I just plan on doing this for the summer with sufficent funds for emergencies or if i switch up my camping style" and "but I learned the importance of social responsibility as well. I would love to live wild in off seasons" it clues me in to your current lack of what this will take and your lack of knowledge about what you will encounter along the AT. It makes me think even more about what else you are not telling us or what other things you are not aware of. Despite the AT often being touted as a journey through the wilderness, like RancOr stated, it maybe something a lot different than you are expecting. It might not be the best place to practice true survivalist skills or the idea of "living wild off the land." If you are going to spend time hunting and fishing for your survival on the AT and you also plan to thru-hike do you really expect to include all these activities and also have enough time to make it to Mt Katahdin in one summer? Seems like your schedule isn't going to allow for all the time it takes to both thru-hike and live a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Have you considered the financial costs and legal ramifications of purchasing all the fishing and hunting licenses you will need to be legal and "socially responsible" in 14 states?" Do you understand or plan to get informed about all the fishing, hunting, and trapping laws in all the different states in which you plan to take game? For example, if you plan to spear fish are you aware that some states don't allow it or don't allow spearing of some species? Do you understand there are some areas like National Parks, Shenendoah and Great Smokey Mountains for examples, where you will not be allowed to hunt and spearing of fish may not be allowed? And, if you do know it have you planned on finding other ways to survive legally? Do you also know some areas like NPs prohibit the destruction of plants? Do you also comprehend that separate permits may be required to hike cross country or that you may impact private property near the AT corridor or that you will not be able to trespass into some areas near the AT corridor, thereby limiting a hunting-gathering lifetyle in some areas. Are you prepared to fully recognize which areas are legal to hunt, gather, and fish upon? Do you understand the impact you will have on humans(both hikers and non-hikers), flora, and fauna if you intend to live a hunter-gatherer lifestyle on the AT?
The AT is a hiking trail. It is not designed to be a trail for "living off the land". When people leave the corridor they are often tresspassing on private property. Gathering edible plants on private property is theft. Gathering on public property such as state game lands. NPS lands, NF lands etc. is also often illegal. Gathering in the corridor is selfish and damages the trail. It's one thing to collect a small amount of edibles to flavor or suppplement, it's another to pick every edible plant or berrie in sight so that there is nothing left for the next person, or for regrowth to occur.
There is an unlimited number of great places where a person can experiment with the "survive off the land" thing. Attemping it on the AT is a dumb ass idea and indicates a total lack of understanding of wilderness survival and the AT.
Wise Old Owl
10-23-2009, 21:22
Nice post Dogwood.
drastic_quench
10-23-2009, 21:33
Thank you both, Dogwood and TD55. I wondered how many posts it would take before someone took off the kid gloves. You both make excellent and insightful points. Hopefully they aren't ignored.
I am in Montana and indians don't try it here.
It is a romantic notion. But the habitat has been starved out and almost entirely destroyed.
Even wild game has cancer. Fish and Game stopped a graduate student at University of Montana, Missoula from documenting the numbers of taken animals with cancer.
The "nature" we enjoy nowadays is the of beauty of a natural environment, that has not been made by an english gardener. Even that is becoming harder to find.
Slo-go'en
10-23-2009, 21:51
I just have to shake my head in disbelief everytime some stary eyed romantic brings up this subject. You were born at least 100 years too late for that kind of thing.
Since you live in Newport, NC, I'd suggest you set aside 5 days---a looong weekend---and go try what you are describing right there in the Croatan National Forest. There are some beautiful back country areas out there. You are likely to have ten times more game and edibles there than anywhere along the AT. This "beta test" will give you some real idea in a convenient way what you will be facing. And it might just give you your fill, or enough to last you until the next 5-day adventure!
Solitude is overrated after 3-4 days anyway...
BTW, make sure that you are not breaking any NC Game and Fish laws, or you may be paying a hefty fine. Just sayin'.
I am in Montana and indians don't try it here.
It is a romantic notion. But the habitat has been starved out and almost entirely destroyed.
Even wild game has cancer. Fish and Game stopped a graduate student at University of Montana, Missoula from documenting the numbers of taken animals with cancer.
The "nature" we enjoy nowadays is the of beauty of a natural environment, that has not been made by an english gardener. Even that is becoming harder to find.
How sad. Two friends and myself did a 21 day live off the land trip in the Little Bighorns 30 years ago. The fishing was great and we were legal with licenses. We carried firearms but never used them because we didn't have licenses for hunting. Could have cheated but didn't. Anyhow, we ended up averaging about 3 miles per day and dreamed about burgers, pies, pizza, etc. the whole time. Took years before I would eat fish again. And I live at the friggin ocean.
Rag-Tag Jack
10-23-2009, 23:32
Thank you all for your insight and knowledge. You have shown me just how much I have to learn, and how outdated my ideas are. It's sad. It really is. It was a nice thought, anyway.
LIhikers
10-23-2009, 23:54
Actually after reading the thread it seems not only possible to do this but also live this way. I've often thought of working seasonally and living wild in the summers. The hunter/gatherer part may be hard, but that depends on knowledge and experience i think. And I wouldn't do this on the trail. I have experience in orienteering. I would periodically leave the trail to collect food in the wilderness and camp.
You should know that in many areas the trail corridor is so narrow that if you go off trail very far you'll be on private properety. In fact there are places that while walking on the trail you'll see houses and other buildings. Private property owners won't appreciate you trespassing.
I admire the spunk of someone willing to "live off the land" for a time.
With chestnuts gone, pickin's are slim on the AT ridgelines especially.
I'd first practice gathering wild and bring it home to process and eat.
Eustace Conway and his buddy tried this, don't remember how far they made it.
Learn your wild plants ID and a few edible mushrooms very well, not just leafed and blooming, but dead stalks and first shoots of spring especially.
If you're willing to use a rat trap, I've heard you can catch squirrels with bait.
Good Luck
jjj
As far as hunting/gathering goes I plan on using edible plants, eating snakes and squirrels and fish. I plan to fish using the survival knife spear method.
Just a little curious how you were going to "spear" a squirrel with a survival knife.
Panzer:D:D:D
RagTagJack, I'm not suggesting you give up on your desire to live off the land. There are people who do it. Though, often it's not for 3 months or more or when they do it successfully as a way of life it requires some radical new ways of thinking and lifestyle changes. Rarely, do they succeed for any significant length of time without knowing what they are getting in to and being properly prepared. I'm saying realize what it will take to attempt it on the AT during a thru-hike and that the AT may not be the best place to attempt this sort of lifestyle. I'm saying maybe you should brush up on your survivalist skills first on a shorter hike or at least see how it goes on a shorter outting. Perhaps, do exactly like BR360 suggested. Continue by increasing your length of stay on each progressive survivalist hike. Perhaps, take a survivalist course for a weekend or wk. outting where you will meet other survivalists/hunter gatherer types. See how it goes.
All the Best.
Lemni Skate
10-24-2009, 02:52
I've never heard of anyone doing it for an entire thru-hike. I have heard of a lot of people attempting it and coming off of the trail half starved.
Rockhound
10-24-2009, 03:18
every year it seems someone wants to play survivor man on the A.T.. Give it a rest.You want to "survival camp"? Go to Alaska. It's not a test in survival when there's a town every 20 miles. It's not a test in survival when there are hundreds of other hikers on the same trail that you are. It's not a test in survival if you choose to stealth camp. Guess what many hikers do this simply because they don't like shelters. It's not a challenge. It's a preference. If you "survive" to Harpers Ferry I'll be shocked and if you haven't eaten at 5 restaurants and resupplied at at least 5 town stops by then I'll be even more shocked. Good luck there survivor man.
datadog314
10-24-2009, 09:56
The all consuming preoccupation of self preservation takes up a huge portion of ones day when attempting a survivial situation. The day you awaken to a massive rainstorm, it's cold, it's wet, you need to get the fire started, it's cold, it's wet, you need to gather up some more food, clean the fish, gut and clean the squrill you just spent an hour chasing, get the fire going again, it's cold, it's wet, the rain is coming down even harder now, you creep up and down the river looking for fish, frogs, anything that moves, it's still raining, gather some more firewood, get the fire going again, eat some cold fish/snake, it's not raining as bad now but, it's getting windy, get some water from the creek.............Uh, should I boil this nasty stuff, get the fire going again, try to find some dry firewood, it's cold, wet, windy, and the clouds look like they could produce snow if these temps drop any lower, which they do, chase that squrill for an hour, dig some roots, get the fire going again, throw the spear at a chipmunk, clean and prepare the chipmunk, eat cold chipmunk because the firewood's wet.
Okay, You've spent enough time getting prepared............it's now time to hike 12 miles....uphill.
So, I can do this again tomorrow and the next day and next week and next month.
Man, hiking the trail is fun!
The all consuming preoccupation of self preservation takes up a huge portion of ones day when attempting a survivial situation. The day you awaken to a massive rainstorm, it's cold, it's wet, you need to get the fire started, it's cold, it's wet, you need to gather up some more food, clean the fish, gut and clean the squrill you just spent an hour chasing, get the fire going again, it's cold, it's wet, the rain is coming down even harder now, you creep up and down the river looking for fish, frogs, anything that moves, it's still raining, gather some more firewood, get the fire going again, eat some cold fish/snake, it's not raining as bad now but, it's getting windy, get some water from the creek.............Uh, should I boil this nasty stuff, get the fire going again, try to find some dry firewood, it's cold, wet, windy, and the clouds look like they could produce snow if these temps drop any lower, which they do, chase that squrill for an hour, dig some roots, get the fire going again, throw the spear at a chipmunk, clean and prepare the chipmunk, eat cold chipmunk because the firewood's wet.
Okay, You've spent enough time getting prepared............it's now time to hike 12 miles....uphill.
So, I can do this again tomorrow and the next day and next week and next month.
Man, hiking the trail is fun!
I wondered when someone would bring this up. "Survival" like this is a full time job. I doubt one would be able to so this sort of thing and thru hike at the same time.
Especially since so much of the trail is ridge walking. Most animals don't live up on the ridge. Rivers and streams don't flow up on the ridge. Not much to 'survive' on.
Hoop Time
10-24-2009, 11:26
Seems nobody has mentioned the simple fact that what you want to do involves breaking the law and could get you into some serious trouble. Can't speak for all states, but in Pa., killing squirrels outside of hunting season, and without a hunting license in season (which by the way is in the fall and would not coincide with when you'd pass through the state if you are NOBO), is illegal. Many snakes are protected species. Spearing fish with a knife is illegal, even with a fishing license (except for carp and suckers, and even those cannot be speared in approved trout waters, which covers many of the streams you'd encounter on the AT) . . . and yes, you would need a license to fish legally by any means, as has been discussed in other threads here before (applies to all states, I think).
The good news is: if you got caught and tossed in jail, you'd finally actually get something to eat (not that they would actually jail you for such an offense, so you'd still be hungry in reality!)
Fire Marshall
10-24-2009, 11:50
I found there to be NO places to fish from GA till about Erwin,TN. Even then if you're trying to thru-hike ya won't have a whole of time to live off the land. Wilderness survival is very time consuming. Lots of work. Doesn't leave much time for 10+ mile days. I picked wild edible plants as I walked. Some snakes,large snails and very seldom fish. But I mostly ate food from resupply points. Skinning,washing and all that prep. crap gets old. Soooo much easier for me to rip open a salmon or tuna singles. Or my most favorite! A Snickers bar dipped into peanut butter! Do what ya want of course. That was just my 2 cents. Good luck and enjoy the adventure.
Wise Old Owl
10-24-2009, 12:03
I am in Montana and indians don't try it here.
It is a romantic notion. But the habitat has been starved out and almost entirely destroyed.
Even wild game has cancer. Fish and Game stopped a graduate student at University of Montana, Missoula from documenting the numbers of taken animals with cancer.
The "nature" we enjoy nowadays is the of beauty of a natural environment, that has not been made by an english gardener. Even that is becoming harder to find.
Connie you have me scratching my feathers here, you don't get cancer from eating cooked game with cancer. Unless you ment Wasting Disease. Could you provide information about where you saw this article?
Slo-go'en
10-24-2009, 12:32
There is one way you can live off the land. You have to settle down in one place, start a garden and rise some livestock. i.e., become a farmer. Even so, there are likely some food stuffs you'd have to get from outside sources to keep a healthy diet.
Wise Old Owl
10-24-2009, 13:04
Seems nobody has mentioned the simple fact that what you want to do involves breaking the law and could get you into some serious trouble. Can't speak for all states, but in Pa., killing squirrels outside of hunting season, and without a hunting license in season (which by the way is in the fall and would not coincide with when you'd pass through the state if you are NOBO), is illegal. Many snakes are protected species. Spearing fish with a knife is illegal, even with a fishing license (except for carp and suckers, and even those cannot be speared in approved trout waters, which covers many of the streams you'd encounter on the AT) . . . and yes, you would need a license to fish legally by any means, as has been discussed in other threads here before (applies to all states, I think).
The good news is: if you got caught and tossed in jail, you'd finally actually get something to eat (not that they would actually jail you for such an offense, so you'd still be hungry in reality!)
There are clear rules & penaties here in Pa, but when it comes to the Grey Squirrel I just don't care. They are too numerous and have done a lot of damage to the attic here. I tried trapping and removal and they are so smart they solved how to get avoid a Havaheart. After decimating their numbers here on my property I now have other species making a comeback from chipmunks, flying squirrels, small red ones, and an increase in birds.
Down south Squirrel for dinner is a great meal. Up here its unheard of, but other countries are adopting it.
Here are some links.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/dining/07squirrel.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/dining/07squirrel.html)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/25/conservation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/25/conservation)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Gray_Squirrel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Gray_Squirrel)
Squirrel Damage http://www.essortment.com/all/squirrelsatti_rugb.htm (http://www.essortment.com/all/squirrelsatti_rugb.htm)
Futher Reading
Pennsylvania Game Commission field officers and biologists report that squirrel hunting in most areas of the state will be good to excellent. The state's squirrel seasons are Oct. 15 to Nov. 26, Dec. 12-23, and Dec. 26 to Feb. 4. The state's youth squirrel hunt will be held Oct. 8-14.
Gray squirrel numbers continue to remain strong in many areas of the state, and the continuing expansion of fox squirrels into eastern and northern counties offers new hunting opportunities for hunters looking to try something different. Black-phase gray squirrels also can be found in the state's northern tier from the Ohio line into the Northcentral Region counties.
Squirrels are one of Pennsylvania's most abundant game animals, and offer amazing opportunities to both new and experienced hunters. Most hunters use shotguns with light loads (size six-shot) or .22 caliber rifles with or without scopes. Shooting Squirrels with an air gun is illegal in PA.
warraghiyagey
10-24-2009, 13:05
Shooting Squirrels with an air gun is illegal in PA.
That's why I always use a 10 gauge whith a full choke. . .
Its doable food wise, just not on the AT.
You could survival camp on the AT and dumpster dive, beg and steal.
I guess I would call that hobo camping though.
If you are serious about trying the real deal survival camping, like debris shelters etc and living with nothing but a knife and a tin can it would be a good idea enroll in a top quality 7-14 day survival school.
Still even with those skills the problem is still trying to find enough food on a regular basis. Red meat will be 90% of your diet in northern climates which is not real healthy. There are a few wild edibles in nothern climates that would help, just not year round.
In seaside tropics you would have a better chance at surviving with more balanced food choices like, fish, shellfish, fruits, coconuts etc.
Where ever you do it, to do it successfully you would spend all of your time looking for food and you would have to eat mostly anything, squirells, rabbits, mice, rats, maybe a grasshopper or two. Hunting, trapping, fishing basically every day all day long. Another problem is food storage if you kill something big. You need fresh meat every day or two if its warm weather unless you know how to preserve meats the old fasion way, IE pre refrigeration.
If you are in the artic then you have 24/7 refrigeration in the permafrost and a lot of game. One moose would feed you for months, but then you need a gun unless you go after it caveman style.
If you like that sort of thing, watch the movie Nanook of the north. Its a silent film, but good. Nanook is an Inuit (I think) head of a nomadic family.
That's why I always use a 10 gauge whith a full choke. . .
My favorite.
Minced squirrel.
Shutterbug
10-24-2009, 14:30
Solitude is a must.
If solitude is a primary objective, perhaps the AT isn't your best choice. It is difficult to find solitude along the AT.
From your posts, it sounds like a better choice for you would be the Continental Divide Trail, the Arizona Trail or the Ozark Trail. On those trails you would have a better chance of "living off the land" and of finding some solitude.
Hikes in Rain
10-24-2009, 14:45
Thank you all for your insight and knowledge. You have shown me just how much I have to learn, and how outdated my ideas are. It's sad. It really is. It was a nice thought, anyway.
Yeah, you're right, it is sad. The sort of life you describe is very romantic, but like many things, the romance doesn't survive contact with the reality. But as several people described, don't give up on the idea. Instead, just modify it a little, taking into account all the stuff you've learned here. Do a little more research, build and become skillful with the primitive weapons (that's a very fulfilling hobby unto itself), and try it for long weekends in your local forests, making sure you stay on the legal side of things since you're not truly in a survival situation. I've done it, and it's a lot of fun, plus you build up skills that very few others have. And on a long weekend, when (not if!!) you get "skunked", miss every shot at game, the fish don't bite, and you can't find a single edible plant, at least you won't really starve! When your stomach growls, just remind it that even the best animal predators at the prime of their lives miss something like nine out of ten attempts. And think of the steak you'll have when you get back home.
Wise Old Owl
10-24-2009, 14:49
Dumpster and Yogi is Hobo to me, not survival camping. I am not against Yogi, as many have asked and I have provided what I can. It's just not living off the land.
gunner76
10-24-2009, 23:00
He could always hunt all the mice in the shelters thus living off the land and getting rid of all the mice hikers are always complaining about, a win win situation
Wise Old Owl,
I heard it on the radio news.
I didn't say you get cancer from it. I said wild game with cancer.
The "wasting disease" reports are about a different problem.
The "whirling disease" in fish is another problem.
gunner76,
Did the guy portrayed in Never Cry Wolf really eat mice?
Mice in eastern and western states can have "hanta disease".
I just like to know about food, and food sources. I like to know what I eat.
I, personally, of course, do not consider eating a rodent.
However some people somewhere may consider eating a rodent.
The pigeons in San Francisco were infected with something or other and there were printed signs all over town stapled up on telephone poles warning some ethnic people not to eat pigeons.
It seems the "natural" world is in "imbalance".
I think the Hopi had a movie made about it: life out of balance.
There are many laws and seasons which require hunting and fishing licenses in every state. Most parks don t want you camping too far off the path . Del.Water Gap is one of them. Good luck !!!!!
datadog314
10-25-2009, 08:57
After about day four , (in survivial mode) all concept of laws and regulations go right out the window. Keeping oneself alive and comfortable is hard work. It's hard enough doing something like that even when you have a basecamp and the travel park of hiking the trail isn't involved. It's fun and romantic trying to live the way of our ancient forefathers but, after about a week of it, you begin to realize.......Damn, this is hard.
I also wonder how I would feel, traveling the trail, I got a nice spot overlooking a scenic waterfall, I'm watching a mother deer and her fawn drinking from the stream..............when suddenly, out of the brush, leaps some filthy, starving, rag-wearing, human with a knife tied to the end of a stick. Wild-eyed, he plunges the spear repeatedly into the momma deer, her terrified fawn scampers into the underbrush for safety...........it's quiet now. Untying the knife from the end of the stick, the man then begins the process of gutting his prize, leaving the head, legs, and entrails scattered around my once beautiful setting................it's quiet again.
Nah, this is not a sight I'm hoping for next year on the trail.
After about day four , (in survivial mode) all concept of laws and regulations go right out the window. Keeping oneself alive and comfortable is hard work. It's hard enough doing something like that even when you have a basecamp and the travel park of hiking the trail isn't involved. It's fun and romantic trying to live the way of our ancient forefathers but, after about a week of it, you begin to realize.......Damn, this is hard.
I also wonder how I would feel, traveling the trail, I got a nice spot overlooking a scenic waterfall, I'm watching a mother deer and her fawn drinking from the stream..............when suddenly, out of the brush, leaps some filthy, starving, rag-wearing, human with a knife tied to the end of a stick. Wild-eyed, he plunges the spear repeatedly into the momma deer, her terrified fawn scampers into the underbrush for safety...........it's quiet now. Untying the knife from the end of the stick, the man then begins the process of gutting his prize, leaving the head, legs, and entrails scattered around my once beautiful setting................it's quiet again.
Nah, this is not a sight I'm hoping for next year on the trail.
More probably, while you sit enraptured by the bucolic scene before you, the wild eyed hunter/gatherer has decided that you, with your pack containing shelter, food and money, make a much easier and productive prey. Suddenly, it gets really quiet...
Wise Old Owl
10-25-2009, 13:52
Thanks for getting back to me on that Connie!
Figgsy13126
10-25-2009, 13:56
should never have watched "into the wild"
datadog314
10-25-2009, 14:01
Good point, my friend................what are the laws regarding wild-eyed, starving, hunter/gathers, on the trail? Curling up in the fetal position, covering the head and neck?....or, fight back?
Perhaps, fleeing and squealing like a little be-aach might work but, I'd have to look at myself in the mirror.
please don't come to alaska. we do not need anymore "survival" freaks hanging out at the anchorage bus station harassing people all winter.
Nearly Normal
10-25-2009, 17:12
The AT would be a poor choice of area to try this.
You'll need a much more wild and remote area with a pack animal(s) and proper gear, supplies and knowledge for a successful extended trip. Probably a knowledgable equally prepared partner too. You also need some sort of re-supply and means to pay for it. Staying healthy would be the most important thing on a long trip. You will have to settle in an area for a few days, use the resources, then find a new area.... repeatedly.
I'm doughtful you can just walk along the AT browsing as you go.
Hoop Time
10-26-2009, 06:57
There are clear rules & penaties here in Pa, but when it comes to the Grey Squirrel I just don't care. They are too numerous and have done a lot of damage to the attic here. I tried trapping and removal and they are so smart they solved how to get avoid a Havaheart. After decimating their numbers here on my property I now have other species making a comeback from chipmunks, flying squirrels, small red ones, and an increase in birds.
Down south Squirrel for dinner is a great meal. Up here its unheard of, but other countries are adopting it.
Oh yeah, I agree. Matter of fact, if he is good with that spear, he is welcome to come clean out the population of squirrels in my back yard. The bastards even have learned to chew through the lid of the garbage can to get at "food".
I just was pointing out that some "public service" efforts can land you in trouble with the law.
As for eating the little rats with bushy tails, I remember my mother making squirrel potpie (the Pa. dutch style pot pie, which is more a soup ... brothy with thick wide noodles) when my dad and I brought a few home from a hunting trip when I was around 13. First and last time I ate squirrel. Did not taste like chicken!
datadog314
10-26-2009, 08:53
Personally, I always thought chicken tasted like squirrel. :eek:...................Mmmmm, squirrel. KFS...tonight!
I found there to be NO places to fish from GA till about Erwin,TN. Even then if you're trying to thru-hike ya won't have a whole of time to live off the land. Wilderness survival is very time consuming. Lots of work. Doesn't leave much time for 10+ mile days. I picked wild edible plants as I walked. Some snakes,large snails and very seldom fish. But I mostly ate food from resupply points. Skinning,washing and all that prep. crap gets old. Soooo much easier for me to rip open a salmon or tuna singles. Or my most favorite! A Snickers bar dipped into peanut butter! Do what ya want of course. That was just my 2 cents. Good luck and enjoy the adventure.
Are you the same Fire Marshall that killed and ate the rattlesnake at Watauga Lake on Memorial Day 2008?
SunnyWalker
11-05-2009, 11:36
Unrealistic dream. It will take more then one season. You'll spend most of your "hiking time" gathering food.
You're going to be shocked at how little solitude you have, especially if you start in the early spring. On the weekends in April you're looking at something along the lines of 20-30 people doing the same mileage you're doing. If you slow down, they're behind you. If you speed up, they were in front of you. In some areas if you walk off the trail and try to parallel it to avoid the crowd, you will encounter fences, and angry land owners with dogs. That's assuming you don't get lost.
It simply takes too much time to live off the land. There's a massive calorie deficit in the best condition. If you're walking 10-20 miles a day on top of that, you simply will not be able to trap/fish/gather enough raw calories to sustain you for long.
paradoxb3
11-05-2009, 14:42
there are many good reasons already mentioned as to why this sort of thing isnt feasable on the AT, but its suprising to me that nobody has mentioned how this "survivalist" lifestyle doesnt jive very well with the principles of LNT. think about it a minute... if you're talking about building survival A-frame and lean-to shelters to sleep in every night, and you cook up your squirrel, snake, fish, etc... over the daily campfire in a different place every single day, leaving bones and scraps in your wake the entire way then you'd really be making a mess of the already slim AT corridor. i'm sure you could scatter your shelter/firewood and bury your scraps to reduce your intrusiveness, but when exactly would you find time to hike i'm wondering? the folks that ask this question year after year dont seem to be very educated as to whats out there on the AT, and more accurately whats NOT out there. it wouldnt shock me if they also didnt know what this "LNT" i speak of means.
Anyone else notice that the person who wanted to do the survival camping, posted only on November 23? I'll bet he has moved on to the next scheme, like getting rich quick, building a home made rocket ship or starting his own cold fusion company.
Oh you guys are too hard on him.
All you need is to kill a hog every couple of weeks pack up the ham hocks and spare ribs in the pack mounted solar power refridgerator and you are good to go.
Steal some onions and tomatoes, gather a bit of honey, and BBQ pork on the trail 24-7.
Fire Marshall
11-05-2009, 22:45
That's why I always use a 10 gauge whith a full choke. . .
YEAH!! Right in the FACE!!!
So, Fire Marshall, do you eat rattlers at Watauga lake?
Fire Marshall
11-07-2009, 23:37
So, Fire Marshall, do you eat rattlers at Watauga lake?
MMMM! Why Yes! Yes I do.
Doooglas
11-08-2009, 06:00
Mall Ninja meets Ray Mears.
Nooz at 11 !