How to Be a Good House Guest

[Jack Tarlin]

I realize that folks will look at the title of this thread and think that this one's kind of a no-brainer, but I assure you, it isn't. The purpose of this thread is quite simple, and it comes from the perspective of one who has been a guest in many people's homes, and also as a person who has entertained many a hiker in mine.

And it's especially written for the new guys, like the folks who'll be hiking next year.

* * *

In the course of a long hike, sooner or later you'll find yourself as a guest in a private home. And while a lot of what I'll be writing about also applies to staying in hostels or places where one pays to stay, etc., today I'm specifically dealing with private homes.

You may find yourself at the home of a family member or old friend. Or perhaps you'll end up at the family home of a Trail friend or hiking partner. Or more commonly, you might end up at the home of a complete stranger or someone you only recently met, who happens to take in hikers and help them out.

When this happens, there are ways to be a great guest, and yeah, there are ways to be a bad one, too. The purpose of this thread is to offer a few pointers and suggestions that will make your host feel better about you, and equally important, will help make sure that this person wants to continue taking in hikers in the future.

1. First off, there's the hygeine thing. Even if your host is a former thru-
hiker (or Mom of a current one or whatever), you should still make an
effort to clean up as soon as possible. Most hikers are blissfully unaware
of how filthy they are and how much they stink. The first thing you want
to do after arriving in someone's home is to get yourself cleaned up, i.e.
a good shower first, and laundry second. A private home is not a hostel,
i.e. a place that has a permanent aura of hiker funk present. The clean-
up thing is also important as in addition to your host, there may well be
other family members present, or friends of your host, guests at dinner,
etc. You may well be the first thru-hiker some of these folks have met,
so try and make a good first impression.

Speaking of cleaning up, most hikers aren't aware of how horribly they can
trash a bathroom, what with dirt, leaves, pine needles, etc. Always make
an effort to clean up a bit after you're done in there, especially the tub/
shower area. I assure you your host will really appreciate your thought-
fulness.

While it's probably OK to use whatever soaps or shampoos are in the
bathroom, you may want to ask first, and absolutely ask before using
personal stuff, like hairbrushes or razors.

2. Next thing you'll want to do is your laundry as it's most likely filthy. If
your host points you towards the laundry room and tells you to do it
yourself, fine, but as a rule, DON'T do this on your own. I know of at
least one guy who doesn't take in hikers anymore because a hiker who
was trying to be "helpful" went and did a couple of loads of laundry and
wrecked the washing machine, despite the presence of a sign that told
them NOT to touch it.

3. Keep your stuff consolidated, i.e. don't take over the house with your
things scattered all over the place. Keep in mind that your pack stinks, so
ask your host if it's OK in the house; likewise, ask them about boots in the
house, too. Most will say "Don't worry about it" but it's nice to ask.
Another good reason to keep your stuff reasonably consolidated is that it
will greatly decrease the likelihood of your forgetting something when you
leave, like your sticks, camera, journal, address book, and so on. Pay
extra attention to anything you plugged in, like a charger, phone, etc., and
always ask before plugging anything in, it's a simple courtesy thing.

4. Speaking of electronic devices, be cool with your host's computer. Stick
to Internet/correspondence/journal stuff if possible, and don't be On-Line
for too long. There may other folks in the house who need to use the
machine, plus a lot of folks take in hikers because they enjoy talking to
them, hearing their stories, etc. Sitting down at a computer for three
hours is kind of rude; if you need a lot of computer time, ask your host if
you can use the machine later in the evening. Oh, and it shouldn't have
to be said, but don't do anything inappropriate with your host's computer,
i.e. don't look at anything you couldn't watch with your grandmother.

5. Obviously don't make long-distance calls without asking, and if you're
going to have to receive any, keep them short and NOT late at night.

6. Keep in mind that while things are pretty easy-going on the Trail in terms
of language, bodily functions, etc., it may well be different in a private
residence, so watch the profanity, ball scratching, etc. And whatever
your physical ailments or problems may be, your host in all likelihood
doesn't want to hear the details of your digestive woes, nor does he want
to see you perform toe surgery in his living room. A little common sense
goes a long way here.

7. Hikers get pretty compulsive about food. Keep in mind that back in the
real world, things are different. Not everything in the house is necessarily
there for you, so even if your host says something like "Help yourself to
drinks from the fridge" does not mean it's OK to drink half a gallon of milk
just cuz it's there. And if a meal is served in the home, don't eat like a
wolverine. The meal your host has prepared is not necessarily "All You
Can Eat!" Obviously, if you're told to eat as much as you like, that's one
thing, but otherwise a little restraint is in order.

8. Offer to help clean up. Your host is not your maid or your Mom. Some
folks like to do everything in the kitchen themselves, others may welcome
the help, either with food prep or more likely, cleaning up afterwards. But
always ask, your host will appreciate this, especially if you aren't the only
hiker guest.

9. Speaking of other guests, don't automatically assume that because some-
one took you in or took you home that they want other people there or
that it's cool to bring back other folks, or worse, direct them to someone's
home, leave a map to the house in a Trail register, etc. Unless you abso-
lutely know it's cool, the decision to have hiker houseguests is the HOST's
decision. Believe me, coming home from work and finding half a dozen
strangers hanging around your house, including some really sketcy ones,
is not a pleasant experience. And telling your host, "It's OK, this is my
hiking partner!" or "I've known this guy since Tennessee!" doesn't cut it.

10. If you have a dog, don't take it in the house unless you know it's cool.
Absolutely clean up after it. And NEVER leave it untended while you take
off to shop, eat, go to a movie, etc.

11. If your host has pets, respect this. Asking them to move their dog
outside or to lock their cats in a bedroom during your visit is totally
uncool. If you have a problem with someone's pet that is that profound,
you probably shouldn't stay in the guy's house.

12. Be cool about personal/private stuff. Keep to common areas of the
house (kitchen,living room, your bedroom, etc.) Stay out of bedrooms,
offices, studies, etc. And if you need something, ASK for it. Your host
will be delighted to get you a scissors or some packing tape or whatever,
but will probably NOT be delighted if he sees you rooting thru cupboards
or his desk. Likewise, just cuz a guy has a garage or woodshop full of
tools, ASK before using something. I.e. if your host is a carpenter, his
discovering that a hiker guest is using a two hundred dollar wood chisel
to repair his pack and tent poles is a really good way to get disinvited
from the house.

13. If you borrow something (a pen, a tool, whatever), hand return it to your
host.

14. If you should break or damage something, tell your host.

15. Don't leave the house with anything that's not yours.

16. This includes toilet paper. Wiping your butt for the next two weeks is
not your host's responsibility.

17. Be cool about the partying thing. You'll probably get a pretty good idea
of where your host stands on this, but as a rule, don't ask them if it's
cool to drink or drug in the house or on the property, because if it's NOT
cool, I assure you this will put an immediate damper on your host's
enthusiasm for having you in the house. This is especially the case if
there is a whole family (i.e. children) present. And even tho your host
may partake in certain activities, this doesn't mean he wants his guests
to get all messed up. A little restraint goes a long way here.

18. Don't take advantage of someone's kindness, i.e. don't wear out your
welcome. As Franklin said, relatives, fish, and houseguests tend to
become really unpleasant after the third day.

19. If you do end up staying awhile, consider doing something nice for your
host, i.e. treat them to a meal, bring home some ice cream, or whatever.
This will surprise the hell out of them and they'll really appreciate it.

20. And if you see them doing chores around the place, offer to help out.
A few weeks ago, I unloaded a truck full of lumber and bricks in front of
four hikers who sat around in the yard drinking beer while I was working.
Gotta tell ya, I wasn't all that unhappy to see them leave the next
morning.

21. If you tent, ask your host first where you should go. And even if it's a
totally rural area, be cool with personal hygeine stuff, i.e. even if your
host is a former thru-hiker, he may not be too pleased to see you
crapping in his forsythia bushes. Likewise, getting out of the tent to
piss, or getting out butttnaked and scratching your groin is also kind of
uncool, especially if your host has family or neighbors.

Well, that's 21 things, which is certainly enough for a start. It can all be reduced tho, to something much simpler: If you make a mess, clean it up. If
you use something up, consider replacing it. Put stuff back where it belongs, and don't take something or use something without asking first. Keep in mind
that while you may have needs and priorities, so does your host, so just cuz there's a big TV there, it doesn't mean you should watch loud movies all night.
Don't assume your host has time to shuttle you all around town, back to the trailhead, etc. He may be free to do this, he may not. Hikers assume the world revolves around them and this simply ain't the case when you're in town or at someone's house.

In short, be a good guest, the kind that someone would like to have back sometime, and even more important, make sure that when you leave, your host still feels good about having other hiker guests in the future.

Oh, and this last one is really important: Most folks that take in hikers absolutely love to hear back from their guests, so make sure you get folks' real names and addresses. Send them a "thank you!" postcard a few days after you've left town, and consider writing them later in the trip. Definitely put them on your list of folks who get a Katahdin shot when your trip is over. Most folks that take in hikers keep all of this stuff and treasure it, even to the point of having photo albums, scrapbooks, etc., and nothing makes these folks feel better than to hear back from someone who had a good time at their place.

Well, all for now, I hope the new folks find this post instructive, and I hope to hear from other folks with their thoughts and ideas on the subject.

And yeah, if they like it, website administrators are welcome to add this post (and subsequent comments) to the Articles section of this website.

[sbhikes]

I can't believe someone would crap in someone else's forsythia bushes. And that anyone would need to be told not to do that.

Thanks for posting this list.

[Cookerhiker]

Jack, this is very useful and while seemingly no-brainer and common sense, it helps to remind everyone.

My only comment is about boots. If I ask and the host, tying to be accommodating, says it's OK then he may not know what he's in for! The older I get, the more my feet stink after hiking so I'd hate to stink up the house. So personally, I'd just assume that they should not be in the house or at least should not be worn in the house. I would take them off outside (along with socks), shake them thoroughly, and wear my crocs upon entering the house - no bare feet until the shower. Now if the host doesn't want boots sitting outside and prefers them out-of-sight inside, then of course I'd abide by those wishes. Perhaps I'll just put the question that way: "you really don't want my stinky boots in your house, do you?"

[Jack Tarlin]

Funny thing. I just remembered I wrote almost this exact same post something like three years ago.

But I still think most of it holds true.

[Jeff]

The points made here are all good.

One addition, if someone invites several hikers into their home, be careful not to take long, long showers. It sure feels good but 2 or 3 hikers can easily run the hot water tank out for anyone else.

[Jack Tarlin]

Good point, and I thought of another one when from when I wrote on this subject a few years ago:

Don't mess with radiators, thermostats, heaters, and especially fireplaces and wood stoves unless you really know what you're doing.

While your host may well appreciate your efforts to help keep the place warm and toasty, he's probably less enthusiastic about you burning the place down.

[johnnybgood]

I'll make one addition Jack .

Please me mindful of your host families religious views and customs, i.e. ( Sunday services may be an important segment in their lives) and they may ask you to attend.
Respect their views even if they may seem foreign to you and never force your religious or philosophical opinions upon them.

Just thinking.:-?

[Pacific Tortuga]

I thought it looked familiar. It amazes me that people need to be reminded of these basic rules.
You hear each year of some, idjet's, pulling some crap. Even in Trail movies they show a, "the rules don't apply to me" attitude and often with their pet's.
99% of hikers, some with pet's, can show class and integrity, but it takes just one, to cause the loss of a Trail friend and their hospitality.
If you police the jerk's then, your not cool, what a crock. Speak out when a house rule gets broken, show some backbone and character.

[cowboy nichols]

These are good to follow where ever anyone visits. I like many who live in FL. get houseguests and all are not always aware of old fashion manners. Good list.

[The Weasel]

Although well done above, a lot of this can be boiled down to four rules:

1) Don't do anything without saying "Please" first and being told, "OK."
2) When finished doing anything, leave things better than you found them.
3) After finishing anything, say, "Thank you" and mean it.
4) If in doubt as a guest, say to yourself, "What can I do now to make my hosts glad they have me here," and then do that, consistent with ##1-3.

Good thread.

TW

[LIhikers]

A "Thank you" goes a long way toward making people glad they did what they did for you. It also makes it more likely the "host" will be willing to help another hiker some day.

[kayak karl]

your probable preaching to the choir, but it can't hurt. missed you in Hanover, even looked in a basement bar:confused:. its sad you need to post a list like this. i was shocked at the way people treated Chet's place in Lincoln. hate to say it , but it was the younger guys. like their mother was going to clean up after them. even in towns, some hikers did not tip. even for a short shuttle. maybe i'm just getting old:D

[Jack Tarlin]

Karl:

It often is the younger guys, but not always. Some of the worst offenders (especially in hostels that were run out of people's actual homes like Miss Janet's place or the Cabin in Andover, ME) were people the same age as you and me. They'd leave wet towels on the floor, wouldn't even take their dishes to the sink, never mind help to clean them. Or they'd see people doing light chores and clean-up but would never lift a finger to help. The problem, basically, was they'd been married for thirty-odd years and obviously had wives back home that put up with this nonsense. And the biggest bitcher and moaner to stay at my place was not a youngster, come to think of it. In any case, tho, it is NOT always the youngest hikers that are the problem. Being a jerk, unfortunately, is something that encompasses all ages.

[Blissful]

Be sure to send them a card and a picture of you finishing the trail when you're done. I have sent gifts too, like one of my books.

[Trailweaver]

Thanks for posting this. I do think that even though most of it is common sense, some people need to be reminded of it. Perhaps a better time to post it would be in the spring. . . when people are starting their hike. Maybe we'll see it again. Everything you said is something I would appreciate a guest knowing/doing if I were to take in a hiker.

[kayak karl]

Karl:

It often is the younger guys, but not always. Some of the worst offenders (especially in hostels that were run out of people's actual homes like Miss Janet's place or the Cabin in Andover, ME) were people the same age as you and me. They'd leave wet towels on the floor, wouldn't even take their dishes to the sink, never mind help to clean them. Or they'd see people doing light chores and clean-up but would never lift a finger to help. The problem, basically, was they'd been married for thirty-odd years and obviously had wives back home that put up with this nonsense. And the biggest bitcher and moaner to stay at my place was not a youngster, come to think of it. In any case, tho, it is NOT always the youngest hikers that are the problem. Being a jerk, unfortunately, is something that encompasses all ages.
i thought it was a generation thing. my son (married 3 yrs) was to meet me to go to Cabela's and called and said he would be late because he HAD TO CLEAN THE HOUSE. i didn't laugh till he hung up. she's training him well:).
good luck with your list. a tongue lashing might work better. people need to speak up. me too. KK

[kayak karl]

Thanks for posting this. I do think that even though most of it is common sense, some people need to be reminded of it. Perhaps a better time to post it would be in the spring. . . when people are starting their hike. Maybe we'll see it again. Everything you said is something I would appreciate a guest knowing/doing if I were to take in a hiker.
just a thought. maybe it should be posted on the front doors, bathroom mirrors, washing machine lids, toilet seats, cabinet doors, bedroom doors, porches, the garden................ :D

[ShelterLeopard]

Thanks Jack- this post is really useful. I'd like to think that I'd be a really good houseguest and would've done all of this without reading it, but there are a couple things... mainly, the showering issue. After hiking for a while, you really do forget you dirty you look and how awful you smell. I can imagine it would be very easy to come into a home and sit down, forgetting that while your nose has become numb to everything except the smell of food, your host's nose has not.

[drastic_quench]

Don't commandeer the remote. It's their TV, their cable, their choice.

[Tinker]

Thanks for the list, Jack. I remember making a mess of the bunkroom at the Josh and Leigh's hostel in Ga. and leaving it when I went for breakfast. I had intended to clean it up but ran out of time. I hope nobody looked into the room during that time or they would have judged me to be an unthankful slob. After breakfast I finished organizing and packing my gear and all was well. It was a wonderful experience.
Generally, as a section hiker, I don't stay at hostels, but I was with Frosty, who was attempting a thruhike (2006). I did help to clean up and wash the dishes, hopefully making up for my (temporary) trashing of the bunkroom.

The toilet paper thing - yes, I've heard many a thruhiker discussing whether or not it's ok to take it (mostly from hotels, not hostels or private residences).
If you have any questions just ask the owner/manager. Quite often they'll be happy to help.

[sylvia_claire]

I'll make one addition Jack .

Please me mindful of your host families religious views and customs, i.e. ( Sunday services may be an important segment in their lives) and they may ask you to attend.
Respect their views even if they may seem foreign to you and never force your religious or philosophical opinions upon them.

Just thinking.:-?

I am unclear on what you are saying here, this would be clear

"Please me mindful of your host families religious views and customs. ...Respect their views even if they may seem foreign to you and never force your religious or philosophical opinions upon them."

but you added this part, "( Sunday services may be an important segment in their lives) and they may ask you to attend." in the middle of it. Are you saying that if you are invited, respect dictates that you go? or merely that you should decline in a particular way. If you go should you let your host think you are of their religion if you are not?

Also what are you saying about any potential religious or philosophical discussion that is not likely to come up but might? Are you advocating for a respectful exchange of ideas or that you should never disagree with your host? for example there may come up a religious or political discussion in which you agree with your host or at least agree that there position could be logically held with many arguements; but the arguement that they have choosen shows gross misunderstanding of the other side hurting both the people on the other side through the mischaracterization and their own side through the use of a illogical arguement. It would seem to me in this situation that staying silent is not good for anyone involved.

- Sylvia

[sheepdog]

Most people who need it, won't bother read this thread.

[Spokes]

This is good info Jack. Especially the part about keeping your stuff consolidated. Guess what? That even goes for when you're in a shelter!!!!

[ShelterLeopard]

Yep- it's never fun to come up to a shelter when some spreads out all of his or her gear to "organize" it. Especially if they're drying rain gear. Great, way to get the rest of us wet.

[Jester2000]

17. Be cool about the partying thing. You'll probably get a pretty good idea
of where your host stands on this, but as a rule, don't ask them if it's
cool to drink or drug in the house or on the property, because if it's NOT
cool, I assure you this will put an immediate damper on your host's
enthusiasm for having you in the house. This is especially the case if
there is a whole family (i.e. children) present. And even tho your host
may partake in certain activities, this doesn't mean he wants his guests
to get all messed up. A little restraint goes a long way here.

I presume up front that it's not okay to do anything illegal on the property unless I see the host doing it. As for alcohol, I have stayed at places where it was very clear that alcohol was okay -- because the host offered it, and then offered some more, and then got me kind of drunk.

But if it's not clear I usually do ask (privately), because I want to know what the rules are. I tend to do my drinking in town at bars, because to me new bars are one of the fun aspects of being in new towns. So I'm not going to ask a host if I can bring a keg to his house. But I have on occasion asked if it was okay to pick up a six pack and bring it back. If it's been okay I've done it; if told the house was a no-alcohol zone I've abided by that. I've never gotten any bad vibes from asking.

On another note, I just got a summit postcard from a hiker who stayed at my place for two days. It's right above my monitor and it's pretty cool.

[Mags]

On another note, I just got a summit postcard from a hiker who stayed at my place for two days. It's right above my monitor and it's pretty cool.

I always try to send a card to those who helped me along the way. Good karma. Besides, ot is what Mom taught me. (along with "Please" and "Thank you" :))

[Disney]

This is a great post, and certainly covers almost everything. I would only add one thing.

22. Tobacco. If you're going to smoke, ask them if it's ok. Even if you smoke outside, ask them. The smell can follow you around after you're done, so ask them. If you are going to smoke outside, look around for open windows. Don't chain smoke under an open parlor window. If you're going to use smokeless tobacco, clean up after yourself completely. Don't spit into a bottle for an hour, cap the bottle, and leave it sitting on top of their trash.

Just like in the woods, LNT.

[Many Walks]

Excellent post Jack. I'd like to expand on #20 just a bit. If the host is working on chores, definitely get up to help. As in Jack's example, there are few thing more irritating than having a house guest who just watches you work. If the host isn't presently working on something, but you can clearly see something needs to be done that they just can't get to like mowing the lawn, weeding the garden, cleaning a fire pit, splitting firewood, etc. offer to work on that for a while. Working for an hour or two won't hurt anyone who has the privilege of staying in someone's home.

[The Weasel]

Actually, the same concepts apply to most, if not all, hostels and pretty much all of the hiker-oriented motels as well. In a word, courtesy and consideration are sort of universally a good idea.

TW

[Jester2000]

Also what are you saying about any potential religious or philosophical discussion that is not likely to come up but might? Are you advocating for a respectful exchange of ideas or that you should never disagree with your host? for example there may come up a religious or political discussion in which you agree with your host or at least agree that there position could be logically held with many arguements; but the arguement that they have choosen shows gross misunderstanding of the other side hurting both the people on the other side through the mischaracterization and their own side through the use of a illogical arguement. It would seem to me in this situation that staying silent is not good for anyone involved.

- Sylvia

I think that political and religious discussions should be treated the way they are in bars, which is to say you shouldn't have them. I have stayed in many strangers' homes, and I've never been pulled against my will into a discussion of this sort -- it's not hard to avoid such arguments.

Don't get me wrong -- I have some pretty strongly held beliefs. But when in those situations, I think of myself as a guest. Not a teacher, not a debator, not (yet) a friend.

The relationship is a very tenuous one when a stranger acts as a host to a stranger who is a guest. There's no reason to screw things up for you and potential future guests just because you feel really, really strongly that if your host really understood the concept of intercession they wouldn't think all Catholics were going to hell.

Telling someone within 24 hours of meeting them that they grossly misunderstand anything at all won't convert them to your point of view. It'll just make them regret inviting you into their home.

[Cookerhiker]

Not as a house guest but as a hitchhiker - twice I've had to listen to evangelists advocating their position and not-so-gently cajoling me to say something. I had to wonder if evangelizing was their motive for picking me up.

Similar to being a house guest, you want to be appreciative, respectful, and somewhat deferential. But it was hard! Especially the second time over the course of >100 mile ride from Harpers Ferry to Cumberland, MD when we did engage in some back-and-forth. I was relieved when the ride was over.

[Jester2000]

Not as a house guest but as a hitchhiker - twice I've had to listen to evangelists advocating their position and not-so-gently cajoling me to say something. I had to wonder if evangelizing was their motive for picking me up. . .

Yeah, I kind of feel that the host also has a responsibility to not make the guest uncomfortable, and there have been threads on whiteblaze before about people who take hikers in specifically to proselytize, without giving hikers fair warning that that was their mission.

I feel that if you've made the attempt to tell them you're not religious and don't plan to be and they persist, and you're very uncomfortable with the situation, leaving (or asking to be dropped off if you're hitching) is a better option than arguing.

[Cookerhiker]

Yeah, I kind of feel that the host also has a responsibility to not make the guest uncomfortable, and there have been threads on whiteblaze before about people who take hikers in specifically to proselytize, without giving hikers fair warning that that was their mission.

I feel that if you've made the attempt to tell them you're not religious and don't plan to be and they persist, and you're very uncomfortable with the situation, leaving (or asking to be dropped off if you're hitching) is a better option than arguing.

The first time was on the road to Damascus (wow, no coincidence?!) and had I known Lone Wolf at the time, I'd have sent the driver over to his house.:D

[sylvia_claire]

I think that political and religious discussions should be treated the way they are in bars, which is to say you shouldn't have them. I have stayed in many strangers' homes, and I've never been pulled against my will into a discussion of this sort -- it's not hard to avoid such arguments.

Don't get me wrong -- I have some pretty strongly held beliefs. But when in those situations, I think of myself as a guest. Not a teacher, not a debator, not (yet) a friend.

The relationship is a very tenuous one when a stranger acts as a host to a stranger who is a guest. There's no reason to screw things up for you and potential future guests just because you feel really, really strongly that if your host really understood the concept of intercession they wouldn't think all Catholics were going to hell.

Telling someone within 24 hours of meeting them that they grossly misunderstand anything at all won't convert them to your point of view. It'll just make them regret inviting you into their home.

of course it is easy to avoid such arguement as all you have to do is keep your mouth shut. I would never start an political or religious discussion with someone I barely know. I cite an instance not of disagreement and attempted conversion but one in which a fact or facts would be massively scewed. secondly I was not advocating that one would just come out and say you grossly misunderstand such and such blah blah blah.... perhaps there should have been an example in my previous post. Just say you are having dinner with someone and buddhism somehow comes up and people are under the impression that buddha is some sort of god, it is easy enough to introduce new information without sounding preachy here by perhaps saying, "it was always my understanding that..."(or anyway to put some facts in th middle of an opinon)or perhaps you could take the truth of what they have said and first emphasize in what ways and places they are correct before making a small correction, or even easier and much hardier to take offense to, "when I was at the vipassanna center in mass...." (then there are facts and the begining of a potential story and people usually insist on asking a million questions about what it is like to meditate for 10 hours a day for 10 days instead of paying attention to the fact the you corrected them) point is there are lots of ways to say things that won't be offensive


and this issue is extreamly secondary to the first one I put up. what I really wanted to know was the respect talked about one in which you should go to church if invited or merely repond in a non-offensive way

[johnnybgood]

I will resume my earlier post in an attempt to make it more clear.

If one is asked to attend church with their host family they may agree to go to appear courteous, nothing wrong with that.

They also may respectfully decline , nothing wrong there either.

Does that clear things up sylvia ?

[sylvia_claire]

I will resume my earlier post in an attempt to make it more clear.

If one is asked to attend church with their host family they may agree to go to appear courteous, nothing wrong with that.

They also may respectfully decline , nothing wrong there either.

Does that clear things up sylvia ?


abundantly, thank you

- sc

[Jack Tarlin]

In regards to the religion questions:

I see both sides of this one, as I've been both a host and a guest where this came up.

From the hiker's perspective, I think that within reason, one shouldn't quibble or get peeved over the religion thing. I.e. if you're sitting at the dinner table with your host, his wife, and his two little kids, if they say a quick "Grace" before dinner, even if you're not much of a believer, you should probably bite the bullet, bow your head, and go along, i.e. it certainly isn't worth making some sort of scene over, which will only make YOU look bad.

On the other hand, I think it's incumbent upon hosts to realize that their hiker guests come from all sorts of backgrounds, and this includes all sorts of religious backgrounds, including those who come from a NON religious background. And hosts need to respect this, so while I have no trouble at all with a brief prayer at meals, I think that hosts should probably down-pedal the religion thing, especially when it comes to discovering if someone is saved, or where they go to church, etc. In truth, this is nobody's business.
In short, letting your guests know that yours is a God-fearing Christian household is fine. But proseltyzing is not cool, never mind telling your guest over his pie and ice cream that he's going to hell if he doesn't change his ways. (And don't laugh, I know of folks on the Trail who do EXACTLY this to some of their hiker guests!)

Along those lines, I think it's OK for a host to mention that they'll be attending church on Sunday morning and that their guest is welcome to attend, but again, this should be kind of low-key, and the host should not be surprised or put out if the hiker graciously turns this offer down.

Incidentally tho......in many cases, this might be an offer that hikers would want to take. In many cases down south, a hearty service is followed by a hearty communal meal!

[The Weasel]

Jack and I differ.

I don't like to proselytise, and being hit on in a religious way sometimes is very offputting. But in one's own home, one is free to say what one pleases. While courtesy may well discourage preaching to a captive audience, the guest need only excuse her/himself and leave the discussion and, if need be, the home.

That said, one hostel I stayed at which gently made it clear that it was an evangelical household ended up with a wonderful friendly discussion in which I got an incredible meal and an appreciation for the one place in the Bible that proved that God has a great sense of humor. And then I went back on the trail with my own Episcopalian beliefs unimpaired.

TW

[Jack Tarlin]

Weasel:

Just because someone has the "right" to do something doesn't necessarily make it polite or proper to do it.

Some folks view their religious/spiritual faith as an intensely personal thing, and don't necessarily wish to be questioned about it, never mind lectured or hectored about it, particularly by strangers, and the fact that someone is performing a kindness to another individual doesn't mean that it's proper to ask that person intrusive personal questions.

I would no sooner inquire about a house guest's religion any more than I'd ask him to tell me his annual income.

In truth, it is not my business, and the fact that it's my house and I have the "right" to ask him questions of this sort doesn't make it a courteous thing to do.

[Erin]

Very good suggestions and posts for all houseguests. Thanks, JackTarlin. Yep, the people wh need to read it,won't, but a nice reminder for the rest of us, the majority of us who know manners and common courtesy but a nudge to us to set an example for those that do not.
As my mother would say, people that violate the rules just don't know any better so set a good example. Encourage others to treat others with respect and courtesy.
OK, in other words encourage them to do so: pick up your towel, don't poop in the fire pit, pick up your trash, how about lending a hand, strip your bed, wash up for supper, don't smoke in other's homes or space,no booze in a no booze home, never steal, don't impose, don't mooch, respect their beliefs but don't handle a snake since you did last week, you are spending the night, so you don't need to defend Descartes or whatever, and always send a thak you note .

[mudhead]

I would no sooner inquire about a house guest's religion any more than I'd ask him to tell me his annual income.



Or touch their woodstove. Must be a Northeast thing.

Sad this thread is needed. I'm not into the grace thing at a meal, but can wait and follow a host's lead.

[The Weasel]

There are ways to deal with religion that don't involve being intrusive, or rude, if you're willing to learn about people.

I'm sitting outside the door of the Blueberry Patch bunkhouse, reading my small Bible. I brought it because I wondered what it would be like to read it cover to cover, and couldn't find anything else that small with as many words. Not saying anything. Gary walks past and says, "Enjoying your reading?" I nod and say, "Yup." He mentions he's on his way to lead a Bible study session, and I notice that he's got a Baptist Church flyer with his papers. I remark that I'm an Episcopalian (which, to some people, including other Anglicans, isn't a religion at all), and he says, "Hey, anybody who can read is welcome." I'm not doing anything that night, so I figure, "What can it hurt?" Off we go to the local fire hall, where I meet some firefighters who belong to his church, and for an hour we have a great time, as well as some basic quality firefighter chow. I ended up learning a bit of interesting Bible interpretation, met some great people I otherwise would never know, got a free feed, and saw a part of life that I wasn't familiar with. And I'm still a heathen Anglican, whatever that is. So I didn't catch cooties or forced to drink lemonade or anything else.

People have a lot of ways of welcoming strangers, and letting them do that is part of the beauty of the Trail for those of us who are, sometimes, in a strange land.

TW

[Jester2000]

I brought it because I wondered what it would be like to read it cover to cover, and couldn't find anything else that small with as many words. . .

I did the same thing, sort of. I'm not particularly religious at all, but I read like crazy. I was in a shelter in the Smokies and had finished a book and there was a small Bible that had been left at the shelter. I'd never read it cover to cover and decided to give it a try.

I wasn't a big fan of some of the early chapters, but overall it was good. I did have to politely work my way out of getting into a few theological discussions. It makes sense that people seeing someone reading a Bible would assume they were religious, though, so I was fine with that.

[The Weasel]

"...there was small Bible that had been left at the shelter."

Oh, my! Here we go!!!! (Going to the kitchen for popcorn 'cause it's gonna be a great show here.)

TW

[Jester2000]

"...there was small Bible that had been left at the shelter."

Oh, my! Here we go!!!! (Going to the kitchen for popcorn 'cause it's gonna be a great show here.)

TW

Anyone who wants to get their knickers in a twist about that should start their own thread about it.

[The Weasel]

Jester, you can't be unfamiliar with the "don't leave things in a shelter, especially Bibles" threads. Oh my goodness.

TW

[Jester2000]

Jester, you can't be unfamiliar with the "don't leave things in a shelter, especially Bibles" threads. Oh my goodness.

TW

Oh, I'm familiar with them. I just don't think it's necessary to turn this into one, considering that this thread isn't about Bibles or shelters.

[The Weasel]

Thanks. I agree.

[The Weasel]

Thought for a moment you might have done an accidental pot-stir. My apologies.

TW

[Peaks]

Jack:

Unfortunately, what you posted initially needs to be told to the small percentage of hikers. Can we work to get it posted in all hostels along the trail? Can't hurt, and might help.

Thanks for posting.

[Jack Tarlin]

Peaks:

It's all well and good to post something like this, which is why I do it every few years.

I think it's useful information, especially for the guys heading out next year.

On the other hand, I know very well that in many cases, it's pointless giving out these sorts of suggestions, as normal, decent people don't need to be told about this sort of thing, i.e. proper behavior, and people that act inappropriately aren't likely to alter their actions because of something they saw on the Internet a year before their trip.

Or as my dad once said when he overheard me trying to give advice to a friend:

"Be leery of giving too much advice to people. Wise men men don't need it; foolish people will ignore it. All too often, you're wasting your time".

Like everything else, he was probably right. Nevertheless, there's always that one chance......it's really easy to do the RIGHT thing out there, and a few nudges or suggestions can't hurt.

[The Weasel]

But yes, it makes sense to make it clear what is rude behavior, even though it may not make a difference.

TW

[Doctari]

I think this is a good post even for people who "don't need it" cause it's a nice reminder.
For example, I didn't realize how bad my pack smelled until about 3 days after my last AT trip; I store my pack (right or wrong) in my van, I got home & tossed the nearly empty pack in it's box, 3 days later, I left for work "OMG what is that stench?!?" Yep, it was my pack. We all should be aware that our clothing & bodies smell,,, Really Really BAD most times, but it's easy to forget the funk that builds up on our packs & sleeping gear*. And being accustomed to it, we don't notice. :p


*So, go stick your head in your sleeping bag or quilt now, inhale. Heck, even my hammock needs a bath sometimes.

Thanks for posting Jack!

[The Will]

I haven't (as yet) read anything of this thread other than the title but I have a great appreciation for the topic and it is one of importance to the thru-hiker community.

Hostels on the trail have shut down because hikers were not complying with the guidelines of use. It's a shame when someone's generosity is taken advantage of or disrespected. I only hope that those who could will discover this thread and be open to the suggestions herein.

[curtisvowen]

Hostels on the trail have shut down because hikers were not complying with the guidelines of use.
It's not fun having to deal with bad manners from hikers for months on end, but I'd rather do this then anything else.
The bandages in the shower irks me and stealing my TP is another. I'm going to have to enforce the lights out at X time cause hikers just don't get it.
Cussing in front of my children? I've had to correct a few for that one.
Thanks Jack

[Blue Jay]

Anyone who wants to get their knickers in a twist about that should start their own thread about it.

Somehow this phrase, or variations of it, is finding it's way into more and more threads. Even ones where there is no twisting or wadding involved

[Lone Wolf]

for instance, i just left "The Place" a half hour ago where i caught some hikers blatantly drinkin' Yuengling in a bottle in the living room 10 feet from a big sign that states no alcohol allowed on the premises. all the signs and threads likes this are meaningless

[sloopjonboswell]

and if your hosts have wall-banging sex, the proper response is to watch the playboy channel as they recommended.

[sloopjonboswell]

great post jack. as an addendum, inappropriate conduct by a host or hostess (exposing themselves in an inappropriate manner) is a perfectly reasonable excuse to sleep on the lawn.

[Jack Tarlin]

In case anyone out there thought I was being a bit hard here on hikers and their behavior in people's homes, I decided to write the flip side to this thread, i.e. some ideas on what one can do in order to be a better hiker HOST.

Some of you may want to check out this new thread and I hope some of you add to it.

[Rain Man]

for instance, i just left "The Place" a half hour ago where i caught some hikers blatantly drinkin' Yuengling in a bottle in the living room 10 feet from a big sign that states no alcohol allowed on the premises. all the signs and threads likes this are meaningless

They are if they are not enforced. Children (of all ages) learn very, very quickly if parents don't mean what they say. The trick is don't make a rule you don't intend to enforce.

Rain Man

.

[Lone Wolf]

They are if they are not enforced. Children (of all ages) learn very, very quickly if parents don't mean what they say. The trick is don't make a rule you don't intend to enforce.

Rain Man

.

i enforced the rule. they were asked to leave. i went to find a cop and they were gone when we got back

[A-Train]

I've got two Sobo's at my house right now. They are wonderful guests and even cleaned some dishes after dinner.