View Full Version : Flagstaff to Grand Canyon
buff_jeff
10-26-2009, 21:21
Hey guys,
I'm looking to head into Flagstaff during my winter break, walk north and summit Humphreys Peak, then continue on to the Grand Canyon and do a R2R2R. My question is, is it possible to follow the Arizona Trail to the GC from Humphrey's peak?
Pacific Tortuga
10-26-2009, 21:25
Last I know you could (30 y. ago). The Peak was on tribal property. Needed permission to hike and for the Natives to open the gate to the ski area.
Great times all around there. Let us know what happens.
grizzlyadam
10-26-2009, 21:26
on paper and on a map it looks like it would be fun and easy.
hope you're prepared for lots of snow because it is quite possible in that area for that time of year.
cold temps too. super cold. single digits and subzero at times.
i know, you're thinking, there is no way he's talking about AZ. it is true, though. of course, once you actually get to the canyon it'll be warm...especially at the river. i did south rim to river and back in december 2006. it was 15 on the rim that morning and 75 at the river....
i'd be curious to know how climbing humphreys is for you....
buff_jeff
10-26-2009, 21:30
Thanks for the quick replies, guys! I really appreciate it.
I'm looking for more of a mountaineering experience, so I'll be fully prepared for high altitude/winter conditions, particularly on Humphreys. Gonna be bringing snowshoes, ice axe, crampons, etc.
If I have to road walk to the canyon on 180, that's not a big deal. If I remember correctly, there are places to resupply in Grand Canyon Village, right?
garlic08
10-26-2009, 22:43
If you try to hike north from the summit, be prepared for a winter descent in possible avalanche terrain. I looked at it when I hiked around the summit last May (still lots of snow on the north side) and decided not to do it. The north side is steep and in heavy timber--serious bushwhacking. Lots can go wrong there. There is a trail from the ski area to the summit, and it would be best to follow that route back down if you reach the summit from the south. Do not underestimate that summit, it could be a serious winter ascent.
The AZT is not quite complete in the area north of the San Francisco Peaks, but it is easy enough to bushwhack the route. Get the lastest route info from the AZT web site. Allow extra time to find the route, even in ideal conditions. In poor visibility in a winter storm, it may not be possible. If you join the ATA, you can get downloadable GPS coordinates for the route.
The hike across Babbitt Ranch might be OK in winter, same with the Coconino Rim--depends on the weather this year. It's mostly two-track. There is new signage on Babbitt Ranch. Last year there was pretty heavy snow up there in late December.
There is also practically no surface water in that area and you'll have to rely on stock tanks, about 30 miles apart if they have water. Try to get water info before you head out there, from the AZT web site. I was surprised at how dry the land is up there--no springs or streams, even on the mountain.
There's no resupply at the Rim Village, but if you walk through Tusayan, the town just outside the Park, you'll find everything you need including an Imax movie.
Good question. I've summited Mt Humphreys in the Fall. Started from the Humphreys Peak TH at The AZ Snowbowl. Had to hitch to get to the TH. No permit or permission required. Not a particularly strenuous hike, but the last mile or so is the most exposed and hardest. You'll encounter several top teasers on the last mile or so on the way to the 12,633 ft summit. It's the AZ high pt. In mid Oct. I spent an extremely cold windy night alone shivering at the summit. My 15 * Marmot Helium sleeping bag and wearing all my clothing wasn't enough to keep me warm. Woke up every hr. during the crystal clear night barely able to sleep in short fits. In the morning one of my water bottles was frozen solid and the other filled water bottle I had heated to warm my feet inside my sleeping bag had ice in it! During the days it was a deceptively pleasant in the mid 60*s. The views are astonishing, particularly at night. I could see into much of southern UT and some of the Grand Canyon and further to the Vermillion Cliffs. Flagstaff was obvious. On the very far horizon I could see the glow of Phoenix. Sunset and sunrise were nothing short of being glorious. It warmed quickly in the morning. I headed out on the Weatherford Tr(a little used scenic alternate route beginning/ending at the saddle between Mt Humphreys and My Agassiz at around 12,200 ft.)to get back down to a TH near the Kachina Tr to where I hitched out on a dirt road. Was fortunate to get a ride back to a paved road via that TH. If you summit in winter you will most likely experience COLD WINDY weather with possible snow. Unless you have a window of good weather or are prepared for a short, but definitely possible, mountaineering experience I would wait to summit at some time other than during the height of winter. When I was in Flagstaff, at a lower elev., this past Dec. there was 2 ft of recent snow on the ground. The Snowbowl was hopping.
I have not hiked the AZ Tr, but I think the Weatherford and Kachina Trls are sometimes used as AZ Tr. alternates.
Like you are planning Buff Jeff, I did this summit side hike on my way to a rim to rim to rim at the GC. I however, did not hike to the GC along the AZ Tr. I headed back into Flagstaff after summiting Mt Humphreys via the route I described to take a cheap shuttle(Flagstaff GC Shuttles) to the GC South Rim and did my R2R2R2. You could also hitch on Rt 180 to the GC.
One more word on what you are planning. Be careful how you time your R2R2R because the north rim of the GC experiences significant snowfall in winter and it shuts down around mid to late Oct. Full services are available at the S Rim yr. round(excellent grocery store, restaurants, hotels, PO, Mather CG, laundry, showers, smallish outfitter in the grocery store, free shuttles, etc. Resupply here. Just as Grizzlyadam stated weather at the rims can, and often is, vastly different than that near the Colorado River at all times of the yr. Visit the www.nps.org website for more info. I stongly advise being informed of the latest weather before you go, either to Mt Humphreys or the GC, so you can know what to prepare for. As long as you know what to prepare for the GC, in Fall and even winter is, IMO, the best time of the yr. to do a R2R2R.
garlic08
10-27-2009, 10:52
I have not hiked the AZ Tr, but I think the Weatherford and Kachina Trls are sometimes used as AZ Tr. alternates.
Right now, those trails ARE the AZT. They traverse up to 9000' on the south side of the mountain, definitely into alpine terrain.
Great summit story! And good cautionary advice all around.
buff_jeff
10-27-2009, 20:01
thanks a lot, guys. Got a couple months to prepare here. I'll let you all know how it goes when I get back.
buff_jeff
11-04-2009, 21:32
Picked up a gps and got the data on Garmin's 24K Southwest. Can't wait to head out in December. Still need to print backup maps and get the flight squared away, though.
Hightrailer
11-11-2009, 01:42
Buff Jeff,
I live at the base of the Mt Elden which is right next to Humphrey's. Its less than a five min walk from my house to the trails which all connect. I've done Humphrey's peak numerous times but never in winter. It can be done but with a good winter you'll be in for a serious and dangerous mountaineering adventure I don't think I'd advise. But the weather around here is pretty crazy. It could be warm and dry in December or there could be a hundred inches of snow by then...we'll see. I'll actually be up there tomorrow for a game of disc golf on the ski slopes before the snow shuts us out.
I also spend great deal of time in the Canyon although its been a while since its been for recreational purposes.
I'd gladly help a fellow hiker with some resupplies, rides, local info or whatever. Let me know if I can help.
Mark
For resupply at the s.rim village, check out the general store. They have a wide variety and it is a super market.
buff_jeff
11-20-2009, 15:24
Buff Jeff,
I live at the base of the Mt Elden which is right next to Humphrey's. Its less than a five min walk from my house to the trails which all connect. I've done Humphrey's peak numerous times but never in winter. It can be done but with a good winter you'll be in for a serious and dangerous mountaineering adventure I don't think I'd advise. But the weather around here is pretty crazy. It could be warm and dry in December or there could be a hundred inches of snow by then...we'll see. I'll actually be up there tomorrow for a game of disc golf on the ski slopes before the snow shuts us out.
I also spend great deal of time in the Canyon although its been a while since its been for recreational purposes.
I'd gladly help a fellow hiker with some resupplies, rides, local info or whatever. Let me know if I can help.
Mark
Sounds good, I really appreciate it.
I like to think I'm pretty conservative with outdoor things. I have no intention of putting myself in a bad position. If the weather looks bad, I'm not going up.
By the way, how is the traffic on 180 and 64? In the interest of time I've decided to hitchhike from the nearest point on 180 to Humphreys, into Grand Canyon Village instead of hiking.
Shutterbug
11-20-2009, 22:24
Sounds good, I really appreciate it.
I like to think I'm pretty conservative with outdoor things. I have no intention of putting myself in a bad position. If the weather looks bad, I'm not going up.
By the way, how is the traffic on 180 and 64? In the interest of time I've decided to hitchhike from the nearest point on 180 to Humphreys, into Grand Canyon Village instead of hiking.
You are probably aware of most of these tips, but just in case, I will share them:
1. Even in December and January you may have difficulty getting a permit for the Bright Angel Campground on a walk-up basis. If I were doing it, I would fax a permit request as soon as you know your planned schedule.
2. You will need a way to treat your drinking water. All of the potable water sources have been turned off except for Bright Angel Campground and the Ranger's house north of the Cottonwood campground. There is plenty of water, it just needs to be treated.
3. The facilities on the North Rim have closed for the winter. You will still be able to do the rim to rim to rim, but you won't get to enjoy the pizza on the North Rim.
4. There is already snow at the North Rim and on the upper portion of the North Kaibab trail. You will need crampons to reach the North Rim.
5. Wear layers of clothing. Temperatures in the Grand Canyon may drop below freezing at night, but will still warm up a lot during the day. My wife and I were there three weeks ago. The difference between highs and lows was 50 degrees. He hiked in tee shirts, but needed a coat after dark.
6. The steak dinner at Phantom Ranch is expensive ($54) but if you can afford it, it is a good meal after a hike.
I hope you have a great hike. Give us a report when you get back.
By the way, how is the traffic on 180 and 64? In the interest of time I've decided to hitchhike from the nearest point on 180 to Humphreys, into Grand Canyon Village instead of hiking.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/report.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/report.php?p=922543)
If you are hiking down those roads Buffjeff hitchiikng with a backpack you will get a ride into GCNP. Just a matter of how long a wait.
Hightrailer
12-11-2009, 03:14
Traffic on 180 is typically slow but steady. Nearly all going that stretch are heading to the Canyon so a ride would be easy to come by. There's a bit more traffic on 64 as it funnels people heading up from both Williams and Flag.
The problem that may come up is the closure of 180. ADOT has said it may close the road when we get more snow instead of maintaining it. The state budget is pretty wacked right now and this is supposed to help. Actually there is no agreed on budget.
There were avalanche warnings on the peaks two days ago from a big storm we had. I think there may have been a few slides in some areas. Earlier this week we got 20-30 inches depending on where you live in town and I'm sure much more on the mtn. We're expecting another 5-6 inches this weekend so maybe another foot on the mtn. It was also -3 at my house this morning so I'm sure its bitter at night on the mtn.
Who knows what it'll be like in a couple weeks. It's supposed to warm up so it could be doable. I'll ask around and see if anyone has gotten up there recently.
I'm not trying to bum out your trip at all but just give you some idea of what to prepare from and have some alternative plans. If you want or need to its easy to go off trail and just find your way with a map and compass.
An awesome alternative I'd propose is hiking down in Sedona and make your way to Flagstaff then heading to the Canyon. If you've never been there...you should check out Sedona. LMK if you have any questions about trails, roads or weather etc.
If you need any assistance or rides I might be able to help too. LMK.
SassyWindsor
12-12-2009, 03:17
I've been reading about the bad blizzard that hit the Flagstaff area. Here's a good article about it.
Terribly sorry to hear about the fireman/hunter killed in his tent from a fallen tree. One of my big fears.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/12/11/20091211hunters1211.html
Hightrailer
12-12-2009, 03:30
It was sad. I'm also a firefighter but the deceased was from down south and I didn't know him. Some of my co-workers did. There were quite a few trees that came down in the wind. So far the storm this weekend hasn't done much yet.
StarLyte
12-12-2009, 07:42
I've been reading about the bad blizzard that hit the Flagstaff area. Here's a good article about it.
Terribly sorry to hear about the fireman/hunter killed in his tent from a fallen tree. One of my big fears.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/12/11/20091211hunters1211.html
Very sad story, they must have been terrified - and I've never seen Flagstaff during a snowfall, only a dusting of snow and it was beautiful.
Good luck on your hike, and I'm very anxious to hear your trip report/view pictures on your return. I love this area, especially the elk.
buff_jeff
12-14-2009, 22:44
Ah, I canceled the trip, guys. With classes and just putting things off I didn't have time to buy or research the gear I needed, and I felt it would be imprudent to do any amount of solo mountaineering when I haven't even held an ice axe before. It was just a stupid idea having never even practiced self-arrest.
I also really want to go to Israel this summer and do a large chunk of the Israel National Trail, and I wouldn't have the money for that if I did this trip.
One day I'll be back, though. Just need to take a basic mountaineering course first. Don't want to make the news as the knucklehead, no-experience climber who needed an evac.
Really appreciate the advice anyway; you guys were a huge help.
Bait! Bait! Bait!
Why not just hike the Grand Canyon for now? Do a Rim to Rim to Rim. Save Mt Humphreys for another time. I and others could easily help you prepare for that hike if you wish. It sounds like you are fit and flexible in your approach. It really wouldn't be that big of a deal on equipment or preparation to go to GCNP.
Believe me, I think I understand where you are at right now after coming off an AT thru. You are riding an emotional, mental, and physical high! You seem like you want to get right back into another hike or want to shower and go to sleep for a yr!
buff_jeff
12-15-2009, 10:46
Bait! Bait! Bait!
Why not just hike the Grand Canyon for now? Do a Rim to Rim to Rim. Save Mt Humphreys for another time. I and others could easily help you prepare for that hike if you wish. It sounds like you are fit and flexible in your approach. It really wouldn't be that big of a deal on equipment or preparation to go to GCNP.
Believe me, I think I understand where you are at right now after coming off an AT thru. You are riding an emotional, mental, and physical high! You seem like you want to get right back into another hike or want to shower and go to sleep for a yr!
Believe me, I really want to! The problem is that (I'm under the assumption) I need crampons, and that means I need compatible boots. If I'm going to buy them, I'm getting good stuff that I can eventually use on more difficult peaks, so that's at least $400 for the crampons and mountaineering boots. Then the flight is another $300. Plus what I'd end up spending there. All told it'd be a solid $1,000 at the least.
Trust me, I'll be back, but I'm gonna do it on my terms, you know? I don't want to rush into something solo that I'm not prepared for.
Plus, that Israel National Trail looks awesome and I really wanna travel abroad before I have to start my Army commitment.
Graywolf
12-20-2009, 20:30
Ah, I canceled the trip, guys. With classes and just putting things off I didn't have time to buy or research the gear I needed, and I felt it would be imprudent to do any amount of solo mountaineering when I haven't even held an ice axe before. It was just a stupid idea having never even practiced self-arrest.
I also really want to go to Israel this summer and do a large chunk of the Israel National Trail, and I wouldn't have the money for that if I did this trip.
One day I'll be back, though. Just need to take a basic mountaineering course first. Don't want to make the news as the knucklehead, no-experience climber who needed an evac.
Really appreciate the advice anyway; you guys were a huge help.
Hey Jeff, The INT seems to be a very nice trail.. I just finished a book by a couple who hiked it and they really enjoyed it..Even with all the wars and all over there, they met some of the nicest people..If I could I would do it.. The pictures were great, and it also takes you right by the ancient city of Petra..What an awsome hike that would be..
FYI, the name of the book is "Hiking The Trail"".. Can't remember the authors names though..
Graywolf
Do what you feel is right, but for a winter GCNP(not including Mt Humphreys) R2R2R you don't really need expensive instep crampons or mountaineering boots! Mid cut hikers and something like Kahtoola Micro Spikes, or if you are really on a budget, cheapy Yak Trax Pros, will do the job for icy/snowy sections of the trail. A whole R2R2R winter hike is not going to have you hiking in snow/ ice the whole way! You will, in all most likelyhood, only see ice or snow on some sections close to the rims only on the way down and way back up on obvious trail!
Hightrailer
12-24-2009, 00:07
A R2R2R is doable this time of year. Personally I like the cold better than the 120 degree summer heat.
I'd recommend some spikes for the upper elevation near the rims but after maybe 1.5-2K feet or so its clear. And you can come get the Kahtoola Micro Spikes right here in Flag from the manufacturer.
Shutterbug
12-24-2009, 17:15
A R2R2R is doable this time of year. Personally I like the cold better than the 120 degree summer heat.
I'd recommend some spikes for the upper elevation near the rims but after maybe 1.5-2K feet or so its clear. And you can come get the Kahtoola Micro Spikes right here in Flag from the manufacturer.
I agree that a R2R2R is doable this time of year; however, one who plans it should anticipate more than a little snow and ice at the North Rim. When I was there in November, the North Rim was already experiencing snow. In January and February, the trail between Supia Tunnel and the North Rim will be solid ice.
It should also be noted that the North Rim facilities are closed for the winter. They won't reopen until May 15, 2010. The fact that they are closed doesn't meant that one can't hike to the North Rim. It does mean that once a hiker gets there, nothing will be open. There won't be any place to buy a pizza, or anything else.