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MOWGLI
08-15-2004, 10:56
Now I'm going to be somewhat cautious about what I say here, but I do believe that our friend Elwood is in the Smokies. A least as of Friday morning August 13.

I got to Icewater Springs Thursday night at about 9:00 PM. The next morning this guy bounds off the top bunk and starts talking a good game. My buddy (a regular here on WB) cautioned me that "something wasn't right", and indeed it wasn't. This guy claimed to have completed the PCT this year. He also claimed to have hiked SOBO last year, all the way to Key West, but he talked about using the Bartram Trail - which is not part of the ECT. Lots of other things about his stories just didn't add up. There was no question in my mind that this guy was lying about his hiking exploits. He also claimed to have met Baltimore Jack in Waynesboro in October 2003, but then said Baltimore Jack was in Harpers Ferry "a few weeks ago when I was there". I thought he thru-hiked the PCT this year??

Anyway, the guy looked eerily similar to the dude in the photo posted here. Then I hear he was talking about his wife who had died - before I arrived at the shelter. The strangest thing was the way that he hung around in the morning. While the rest of us prepared breakfast or packed up, he just kind of stood around looking over your shoulder - telling wild ass stories about his hikes. He apparently took a zero day at Icewater Springs on Thursday, and claimed to be hiking SOBO to Springer - from Waynesboro - after having completed the PCT this year. Nothing seemed to add with this guy.

Get this, the strangest thing of all - is he was introducing himself as Steve. He also had some rotton teeth. He would also tell anyone within earshot about how he hiked the PCT and the AT - I mean people who he just met. He had a 2000-miler rocker panel on his old beat up blue pack - but he was carrying a pair of snakers, AND a pair of boots, plus 4 nalgene bottles. Sound like a PCT or AT thru-hiker to y'all?

Anyway, I told him who I worked for and that I wanted to take his photo to give to the Florida Trail Association. I must say, a very worried look came across his face, but he stepped outside the shelter and let me take his photo.

If there is somebody here who knows what this guy looks like, send me a PM. I will email you the photo that I took of this character tomorrow. In the meantime, if you are out hiking in the Southern Appalachians..... watch your gear.

Little Bear

Hikerhead
08-15-2004, 11:09
Interesting...this guy sure can do the miles.

There's already a picture of him under the Trail News thread. Is your guy the same one? Has to be.

MOWGLI
08-15-2004, 11:20
Interesting...this guy sure can do the miles.

There's already a picture of him under the Trail News thread. Is your guy the same one? Has to be.

Like I said, he looks eerily similar, but his hair has grown out, and he was wearing different clothes. He was wearing a black ball cap with a scull and cross bones (or something similar) on it. He was not hiking in jeans. I can't extract the photo from my camera until tomorrow. I'll compare the photo I took with the other one posted here.

The guy struck me as a real sad sack. Not so dangerous really. Just kind of pitiful. Does that strike a chord with anyone who met him?

Miss Janet
08-15-2004, 12:30
Last week a friend of mine saw Steve at I40 near Standing Bear Farm... telling the same stories. He was sure he remembered him from the pic posted online. It probably was him you saw in the Smokies. Email me the pic you have and I will tell you if it is him.

Elwood was in Harpers Ferry on the 8th of July when I was there. He actually walked right into the ATC office while I was visiting. He knew me right away and reintroduced himself as Constant Motion and told me he was forced off off of the PCT by fires. His hair had grown out since last year and he looked very fit. I expect that he is living outdoors and hitching from one area to another and hiking some. I know another friend saw him in Florida back in Feb and he may have been at the Rainbow Gathering out west this summer. He really gets around.

I know he has to have heard that he is the topic of a lot of discussion but he
doesn't really change his stories much. That makes me think that the lying is patholgical. He probably is harmless to people in any physical sense ... unless
talking your ears off counts. Your stuff on the other hand may not be as safe.

There are several well known Trail Hobos all along the AT and some real characters out there "hiking" every year. Gypsy Wind here locally, Crazy Horse(this one worries me), the Queen of England in VA... can you all think of any others? Do you think they should not be on the trail? I think they add a little color and make for interesting stories as long as they are not being harmful. But just being strange, irritating, weird looking or delusional is not against the law.

Lone Wolf
08-15-2004, 12:36
I've met all those folks Janet mentions except for Elwood. None of the others has a rep for stealing like he does.

Youngblood
08-15-2004, 13:40
...just being strange, irritating, weird looking or delusional is not against the law.

And that's a good thing... especially the delusional part.

Youngblood

steve hiker
08-15-2004, 13:49
Ask Steve, or Constant Motion, or whatever ... "do you know Elwood?" Have your camera handy and snap a quick pic of the look that comes over his face.

Hikerhead
08-15-2004, 13:54
Ms Janet, I'm just curious.....If you're a hostel owner, like yourself. And you hear a knock at the door and there stands Elwood. Would you let him in?
Especially after reading the info on here and hearing about him along the trail.

If you say yes, I'm going to have to give you the Mother Teresa award.

eyahiker
08-15-2004, 15:09
Hi Miss Janet, what are does Crazy Horse hang/hike in, if any. Thanks.:)

I trust a woman's gut when she says "this one worries me", so please elaborate.

MOWGLI
08-15-2004, 19:23
I know he has to have heard that he is the topic of a lot of discussion but he
doesn't really change his stories much. That makes me think that the lying is patholgical. He probably is harmless to people in any physical sense ... unless
talking your ears off counts. Your stuff on the other hand may not be as safe.



Miss Janet, my hiking partner & I summarized this character pretty much as you did. He seems to believe his stories and cuts a pretty sad figure. I was dismayed when I read some posts on here from some of the resident "tough guys" when they talked about beating up Elwood. In my opinion, that would be like me beating my dog, or beating up one of my daughters. For that reason I will probably not post his photo in the photo gallery, even if you confirm his identity tomorrow.

Little Bear

Lilred
08-15-2004, 19:32
For that reason I will probably not post his photo in the photo gallery, even if you confirm his identity tomorrow.

Little Bear

The man is a thief regardless of how sorry you feel for him. I'm sure the ones on here have a bark that is worse than their bite. I think people hiking have a right to know who is a threat to them.

MOWGLI
08-15-2004, 19:50
The man is a thief regardless of how sorry you feel for him. I'm sure the ones on here have a bark that is worse than their bite. I think people hiking have a right to know who is a threat to them.

Well, I kind of feel as you do, but there are a couple of characters (actually - just one) on here that strike me as a bit unstable (if the boot fits...). I have never heard what this guy has stolen. Can anyone tell me? Is it cameras & radios? Water filters? Clothing? Not that I was carrying much that I could do without in the backcountry. I could survive without my camera, and without my book, but I needed pretty much everything else that I carried during my 40 mile hike.

If there is an active search for this guy because he has not accounted for his crimes, I can refer this matter to Robert Gray, the NPS Ranger in charge of the Appalachian Trail. He can disseminate the photo to the proper authorities. Just posting his photo here could end up getting somebody hurt. That is not something that I want to facilitate.

Connie
08-15-2004, 19:55
I guaranty a thief will not be feeling sorry for you: it's a con. His entire act I have read is a con.

The thing a con-artist likes most to steal from you is something personal, a wedding ring, a piece of gear you have treasured for years, a nice pocketknife ..your self respect if you have any ..because the thief is hurting you !

He doesn't need the stuff: there isn't 10 cents on the dollar for stolen goods.

It may be "beer money" ..that's it. Ask him how much more he needs for beer money or a little bottle of wine ..I bet he knows to the penny ..and send him his way. Then, you will know if it is "beer money" or if he is a whiner "wino".

You have his picture ?

Turn in a copy to law enforcement up and down the trail, because a thief will do little changes in their appearance to keep in the game.

Turn in a copy to the AT "trail watchers" ..

I had my Mt. Rescue gear stolen out of my truck at a six county "Sheriff's Party" Search and Rescue, in Marin County, CA. I had acquired it all over a number of years. I had my "best stuff" of course. There is not "second best" in Mt. Rescue. Such things are indeed more pricey, now. But at $6,000 I stopped keeping my receipts, because my brain kinda' flat-lined.

No one was going to reimburse me: the county insurance is only for Search and Rescue personnel.

Mt. Rescue is an all volunteer outfit, although some "administrators" in the groups like to "skim" off the organization's "non-profit status".

It was ALL out of pocket.

Protect that jerk, and you are worse than he is. :confused:

smokymtnsteve
08-15-2004, 19:57
and without my book, .

don't you lose that book Jeffery,,

we need ABBEY today worse than ever :sun

MOWGLI
08-15-2004, 20:00
don't you lose that book Jeffery,,

we need ABBEY today worse than ever :sun

I didn't finish it yet Steve. He's still looking for H2O in the desert. I had hoped to finish it but ended up hiking 40 miles in 48 hours. That's a lot of hauling for my tired fat arse, and it left little time for reading.

Lone Wolf
08-15-2004, 20:08
Yup. Connie is right. Thieves suck. He'll get caught redhanded by the right person some day and justice will be done.

MOWGLI
08-15-2004, 20:08
Protect that jerk, and you are worse than he is. :confused:

Connie, I do not want to get into a public debate about this, and this is the last post I will make on the matter. Frankly, I will defer to Miss Janet in this case. She met him, and she knows far more about this guy than me. Like I said, I am not aware that he has recently stolen from anyone. If he has, this is a matter for the authorities, and I have no qualms with getting his photo and approximate whereabouts into the proper hands.

smokymtnsteve
08-15-2004, 21:08
I didn't finish it yet Steve. He's still looking for H2O in the desert. I had hoped to finish it but ended up hiking 40 miles in 48 hours. That's a lot of hauling for my tired fat arse, and it left little time for reading.


ABBEY was always looking for H2O in the desert.

"Saving the world was merely a hobby. My *vocation* has been that of inspector of desert water holes."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

oruoja
08-15-2004, 21:37
This Elwood stuff is getting to be a little too much. This guy in all probability has some sort of mental condition and for the last thirty years the system has gotten away from treating and institutionalizing folks with mental problems. So, these folks are left to roam about, and Elwood seems to have found his favorite feeding ground to be the trail. Don't count on law enforcement to take care of this guy as any law enforcement official with any experience will tell you that the system is basically catch and release when it comes to dealing with people with mental or emotional issues (and certain other catgories as well). On the other side of the coin, by giving him "field" justice might work as it does in dealing with a pesky bear, or it could just make the guy worse and potentially more dangerous. I can guarantee one thing, if anyone takes it upon themselves to administer "justice", you will be the one the authorities will prosecute. Then of course don't forget that the "victim" can sue you as well. Don't be naive to asume that there aren't lawyers just salivating to take such a case. Just ask the retired NY cop who shot an armed car jacker in defense over in NJ and he himself was arrested for a weapons violation. As the defendant he will now also be sued by the carjacker for no doubt violating his "civil" rights. American justice, you just got to be amazed. After twenty years in the business I thank god that I am done with it. Anyway, just remember that common sense does not apply in the eyes of the court, so avoid at all costs getting involved in situations that could backfire on you, and don't trust the cops to back up their initial kudos and backslaps for your "civic" actions. Their testimony in court more often than not is very much altered from the original date of the action they are testifying about as they are influenced by their superiors and other political folks like the DA. Where I worked one tactic was to have all contacts with citizens taped (without their knowledge-yes it's legal), but another officer would before and off tape set up the questions and your inevitable responses before the "official" interview.

eyahiker
08-15-2004, 21:50
Thanks ACLU, for helping the PERPETRATORS keep their rights. Stupidity at it's finest.

oruoja
08-15-2004, 21:58
eyahiker, how right you are! I hate to get up on my soapbox on these issues (it aggravates my hypertension according to my MD), but law abiding folks need to be aware that those we trust to protect us are many times entwined in a system that can actually punish the victim or good samaratin.

eyahiker
08-15-2004, 22:01
Yup. With ya there........

:D

MOWGLI
08-15-2004, 22:03
....and don't trust the cops to back up their initial kudos and backslaps for your "civic" actions. Their testimony in court more often than not is very much altered from the original date of the action they are testifying about as they are influenced by their superiors and other political folks like the DA. Where I worked one tactic was to have all contacts with citizens taped (without their knowledge-yes it's legal), but another officer would before and off tape set up the questions and your inevitable responses before the "official" interview.


Thanks ACLU, for helping the PERPETRATORS keep their rights. Stupidity at it's finest.

Yes, the ACLU is stupid & evil. That is until they help to look out for your rights. Ask that druggie Rush Limbaugh. He recently did a 180 degree turn on the ACLU. How convenient.

oruoja
08-15-2004, 22:11
A point to remember as told to me by several attorneys over the years is that when you are in a tight spot it comes down to "how much justice can you afford." Mr Limbaugh, et al are fortunate enough to be able to afford justice,

eyahiker
08-15-2004, 22:16
Yup.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Nightwalker
08-15-2004, 23:43
This Elwood stuff is getting to be a little too much. This guy in all probability has some sort of mental condition and for the last thirty years the system has gotten away from treating and institutionalizing folks with mental problems...
Hey, if they let me run wild, they'll turn loose anybody.

:banana

Mountain Dew
08-16-2004, 01:41
MOWGLI16...I can assure you almost 100% that you met Elwood. He tagged along with The Mairnttt... Boys (a group i hiked with) in 2003 for almost a month. Mind you...he wasn't welcomed, but you can't order him off the trail or to stop hiking at "our" pace you know. Thus he stole left and right from us.

You are my new found hero (atleast for now). When you realized that it was him you must have been mentally sprinting with what to do or think. All I could do is laugh as I read how you got a picture of him. The only thing better than that would have been if you were in the picture with him. Funny stuff. :clap What is almost as funny is that he told the truth about being in Waynesboro at the same time Baltimore Jack was in 2003. Elwood had been trying to mooch and tag along with the group of about 15 other hikers that I was hiking with for about 2 weeks at that point. Fortunately we ditched him in SNP before he could steal more items from people in the group I was hiking with ( The Mairnttt Boys). The only reason I think he didn't steal more from us is that I was on to him and kept an eye on him when at all possible. Me and my then girlfriend made it a point to keep eyes on him and chat it up with him. When we did a few slacks she even went along with the packs after he said that he would. Can you imagine Elwood going with our packs so that they were kept safe ? hahahaaa I knew better. Somebody asked what he stole from the hikers in '03..... You name it he stole it. Greenman had about 8 patches stolen, an Ipod music device, and several other items. Several of his patches were from volunteer work he did. i.e. Hardcore Hostel at Kincora ! He stole part of somebody's stove, a few tent pegs, CD's, and tons of other misc. items.

oruoja, I'm no doctor , but I'm almost sure he doesn't suffer from any mental issues. He has a lying problem and a small issue with not stealing I'd say. I'd also go as far to say that there is noway Elwood would ever run to the cops about anything. I'd love to see it though. A lawyer file against a hiker ? hahahaaaa yeah, they want to make money not waste there time. Someday somebody is going to catch him thieving and put some trail justice on him I believe. One does have the right to protect personal property. Sue that !

eyahiker
08-16-2004, 07:48
.....................yup.

Dances with Mice
08-16-2004, 09:02
Somebody asked what he stole from the hikers in '03..... You name it he stole it. Greenman had about 8 patches stolen, an Ipod music device, and several other items. Several of his patches were from volunteer work he did. i.e. Hardcore Hostel at Kincora ! He stole part of somebody's stove, a few tent pegs, CD's, and tons of other misc. items.


Howdy, MD. I'm not doubting your word nor defending Elwood/Steve/etc, but was he seen with these items? I mean, I've lost stuff like a few tent pegs, part of a stove, and tons of other misc. items. Did the number of 'lost' items suddenly go up when he was around and stop when y'all finally lost him?

rumbler
08-16-2004, 10:04
When the police arrested Elwood last year for running out on a hostel tab they went through his backpack and found several items belonging to a number of other hikers. He also had a nevada warrant out on him, which he was not extradited on. My understanding is that the park services instructed Elwood to leave the trail and not come back - subject to arrest if he did.

The arrest, the stolen items in his possession and the warrant were told to me from several at the hostel where he was arrested - quite a scene, from all accounts - the next day after we camped two miles past the hostel. The trail ejection story I heard later.

Elwood is not mental, just a career petty thief. And a bit of a prick - We stayed with a group of high-school kids coming out of Damascus. After regalling them with the pain of his son's death in Iraq and subsequent stealth-funeral by an unfeeling US government, he left a journal entry noting that a young nymphomaniac is really what he needed to ease his pain.

He is an actor who just cannot help but overplay the role. He has a pretty low lot in life, but it is a lot he has largely selected himself, since many people have gone out of their way to help him. I would not be worried about him, but alone in a shelter with him I would either keep going or sleep in my tent with my backpack. The one thing he does seem to be good at is nicking equipment.

eyahiker
08-16-2004, 10:11
Elwood is not mental, just a career petty thief.
Sounds smart like a fox to me.

smokymtnsteve
08-16-2004, 10:13
so what is elwood doing with all this stolen equipment...he sure can't carry or use it all..who is the fence and who is buying this stolen equipment?

eyahiker
08-16-2004, 10:15
Hmmm. Now Smokymtnsteve..... there's a point no one has mentioned.:-?

If he is a mental case, then he just steals to steal. Ebay makes this an easy game for someone to play if they wanted to, but hikers? There are many easier targets out there I suppose........I mean he has to hike, yellow blaze, sleep in shelters and scope the stuff, pack it out somewhere, possibly ship to someone to sell........that's a LOT of work for what he can possibly carry. Maybe he has a car somewhere and flops around from trailhead to trailhead.

smokymtnsteve
08-16-2004, 10:20
I mark all my equipment..if folks would mark thier gear,,,then it would make it harder to sell on the black market.

and less tempting for someone to steal to resell or use.

steve hiker
08-16-2004, 11:30
Elwood is like one of those pesky mice who run off with loose stuff in your pack in the dead of night. You wake up and HEY - A PATCH IS MISSING. HEY - MY TOOTHBRUSH'S GONE. HEY - SOMEONE'S BEEN GNAWING ON MY TOILET PAPER.

MOWGLI
08-16-2004, 11:37
Elwood is like one of those pesky mice who run off with loose stuff in your pack in the dead of night. You wake up and HEY - A PATCH IS MISSING. HEY - MY TOOTHBRUSH'S GONE. HEY - SOMEONE'S BEEN GNAWING ON MY TOILET PAPER.

Come to think of it, I had a copy of the NY Times with me at the Icewater Springs shelter last Thursday. Yeah, I know, but you can carry a luxury item like that when you are out for 2-3 nights. I woke up and it had been nibbled on all along the edges. Elwood was sleeping on the other side of me though... Maybe it was really a mouse. Or maybe.... I'm calling the cops!

Connie
08-16-2004, 12:49
If he keep a car, even an old wreck of a car, at the trailheads and anyone sees him or connects him with the car, that is a description and a license plate to give all the jurisdictions up and down the trail.

I "professional thief" sells right out of their car, or van.

SavageLlama
08-16-2004, 13:58
whoa, Elwood is one haggard looking invidivual...

http://www.trailjournals.com/picview.cfm?sort=photo%2Eid&from=journalid&with=1389&id=31840

steve hiker
08-16-2004, 16:42
whoa, Elwood is one haggard looking invidivual...
This guy showed up at the Cosby Knob shelter earlier this year with a hard luck story and bummed some food. Don't know if he stole any gear that night from the others at the shelter.

http://www.isleauhaut.net/racgallery/large_pics/Img12.jpg

http://www.isleauhaut.net/racgallery/large_pics/Littlecookierac.jpg

Mountain Dew
08-17-2004, 03:03
Dances with Mice... Rumbler answered your question for me. I was a 1/2 day behind Elwood at that time because he had yellow blazed up a few days earlier. When the police caught him he admitted to pawning a few items. This is how he gets rid of the items he steals that he has no use for I believe. Greenman did recover a few patches, but not all of them. When he starts to get asked questions by hikers and people start telling him that they are aware of who he is then he just might leave the trail. Confronted enough and he'll likely leave basically.

MOWGLI
08-17-2004, 14:21
Well, after some soul searching, and several confirmations that the feller I ran into last week is our boy Elwood, I have chosen to post his photo in the gallery. What gallery did I upload the photo to, you ask? What else? Trail Legends!

I place this photo in the gallery, and ask that it be used to help identify someone who allegedly has a track record of preying on, and stealing from hikers. I do not condone the use of violence in any way, shape, or form. This guy is not violent. If anyone wants to post threats here, the photo will come down immediately, and I will ask the webmasters to respect my copyright on the photo, and keep it off the site.

Thanks in advance.

sgtjinx
08-17-2004, 14:41
I wouldn't be surprized if ol' Elwood heads down to Florida. To help himself with some easy pickins after Hurricane Charley.

Blue Jay
08-17-2004, 14:49
Thank you MOWGLI16, this is a good service you are providing. Your message of reason is also appreciated.

Rain Man
08-17-2004, 15:23
I was at Rainbow Springs Campground yesterday, finishing up a short section hike from Deep Gap.

Anyway, they had several copies of Elwood's photo up around the place with warnings.

Rain Man

.

MOWGLI
08-17-2004, 15:34
I was at Rainbow Springs Campground yesterday, finishing up a short section hike from Deep Gap.

Anyway, they had several copies of Elwood's photo up around the place with warnings.

Rain Man

.

The word is out to the appropriate authorities as well. That was done before anything was posted here. He will find it difficult to make a living in the Southern Appalachians for the time being. I probably spooked him out of the area when I took his photo. He's either further south (GA or Florida), or up north again.

Big Guy
08-17-2004, 20:06
Mowgl16: You did the right thing in posting his picture to alert others. I agree we should not take justice into our own hands. I believe that in a civilized society that the rule of law prevails. Physical violence should only be used to protect yourself or others and not property.

steve hiker
08-17-2004, 21:01
I say deal with him the same way we deal with black bears who come to steal our food. Bang pots and pans, waive your arms, yell and try to be as intimidating as possible.

p.s. Never do this with a grizz.

smokymtnsteve
08-17-2004, 21:22
another aspect to consider is to mark your gear, use an indelible marker to put your name and contact info ..I have my e-mail address written on my cook pots with permanent marker. along with my jackets and such. marked gear doesn't have as easy a re-sell value on "black" markets",pawn shops would be cautious of buying as the gear is "traceable" , makes it less attractive to a thief. also it makes it easy to indentify your stuff when your using around groups of hikers in shelters.

Flash Hand
08-18-2004, 02:45
This guy showed up at the Cosby Knob shelter earlier this year with a hard luck story and bummed some food. Don't know if he stole any gear that night from the others at the shelter.

http://www.isleauhaut.net/racgallery/large_pics/Img12.jpg

http://www.isleauhaut.net/racgallery/large_pics/Littlecookierac.jpg


yeah thats him

Flash Hand :jump

Mountain Dew
08-18-2004, 03:39
I'm upset that you didn't get into the picture with him MOWGli16. That would have been hilarious I think.