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babbage
10-29-2009, 17:57
I was shocked recently when I walked the BMT along the TN/ NC border. Someone has gone paint happy with the blazes and the giant orange "W"s above the water sources. (Actually the water source itself is easily visible from the trail - no sign was needed.) :confused: I am very appreciative of trail maintenance. Have blistered my own hands clearing trails in the past. But, dang there was a lot of paint used on this beautiful ridge.

7246

7247

I could have taken many more of these type photos.

Jack Tarlin
10-29-2009, 19:56
Good of you to mention this, but much better to bring your concerns to the Trail club itself that actually maintains this section, so they can be aware of this (which they may well not be), and so they can straighten things out.

Rain Man
10-29-2009, 21:44
... (Actually the water source itself is easily visible from the trail - no sign was needed.)....

I find "easily visible" on clear sunny afternoons to be like "day and night" (thought the cliche apropos) from how visible something is (or is not) at dark, foggy, rainy times on the trail. Personally, I don't think bright, clear days are the time to judge, but that could just be me.

Rain:sunMan

.

babbage
10-31-2009, 08:16
I find "easily visible" on clear sunny afternoons to be like "day and night" (thought the cliche apropos) from how visible something is (or is not) at dark, foggy, rainy times on the trail. Personally, I don't think bright, clear days are the time to judge, but that could just be me.

Rain:sunMan

.

Teah, it could be just you.
Weak argument, my assuming friend.
Look at the fog in that picture - it was cold and rainy that entire day. There was no sun -- as assumed. Anyways the water was 15 steps off the trail.
There is rarely, if ever, a need to paint the hell out of all the trees.
You can try to defend that kind of behavior all day long, but I doubt that most outdoors people will agree.
If you need signs, stay on the roadways and keep staring at the GPS.

take-a-knee
10-31-2009, 08:20
I find "easily visible" on clear sunny afternoons to be like "day and night" (thought the cliche apropos) from how visible something is (or is not) at dark, foggy, rainy times on the trail. Personally, I don't think bright, clear days are the time to judge, but that could just be me.

Rain:sunMan

.

It ain't just you, I agree.

kanga
10-31-2009, 09:58
i think if you need to be led around by bright paint in the woods to cope, you should probably stay in the city.

DirtBagger
10-31-2009, 09:59
Too much graffiti is not a good thing. It goes along with folks that carve their initials in trees, on signs, or on shelters - just not very natural. So I must disagree with the overuse of paint on trees.

So rainman and takeaknee, what are your thoughts on LNT?



LNT is best practiced in the woods, not on the keyboard.

Pedaling Fool
10-31-2009, 11:25
I would be embarrassed if this was associated with my organization.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7246&d=1256853240

beakerman
10-31-2009, 12:47
I agree with Kanga on this one but only to a point. If you are on a long dry stretch of trail it is nice to have a marker letting you know that there is a spring over there that you may not be able to see from the trial. I don't know this particular trail so I don't have any idea how frequent water spots are along it but just based on the images posted I think thta these marks are more than excessive. That is definietly not what I mean by a marker letting you know where the water is...it should be something disctrete.

Spokes
10-31-2009, 12:51
I was shocked recently when I walked the BMT along the TN/ NC border. Someone has gone paint happy with the blazes and the giant orange "W"s above the water sources. (Actually the water source itself is easily visible from the trail - no sign was needed.) :confused: I am very appreciative of trail maintenance. Have blistered my own hands clearing trails in the past. But, dang there was a lot of paint used on this beautiful ridge.

7246

7247

I could have taken many more of these type photos.


That's not trail maintenance, that's a redneck with a paintbrush.

Reid
10-31-2009, 13:45
The apperance bothers me more than the effect on the tree.

Dances with Mice
10-31-2009, 23:30
Once a few years ago on the Benton Mac / Duncan Ridge Trails in Georgia there was an important water source marked only with a "W" someone had carved into a tree. (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=22143&catid=member&orderby=title&direction=ASC&imageuser=1030&cutoffdate=-1). It was an important water source, none was available for miles in either direction. It was also easy to miss.

Somebody needed to do something about that.

So two years ago someone did by carrying a couple wooden "W" signs, nails, a container of blue paint and a brush to the site during a week-long spring break hike. He found someone had already blazed the beginning of the trail to water, a little too vigorously because the DRT itself is a blue blazed trail and the water trail markings made it look like the DRT split from the Benton Mac at that point. But the trail to water is now signed in both directions (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=37466&catid=member&imageuser=1030)and the beginning of the trail to water is well-blazed. No complaints have been lodged about hikers following the wrong trail so I guess Benton Mac / Duncan Ridge hikers are using their maps. The water source is now plainly marked, can be seen in fog, and it doesn't hurt the eyes to look at it.

And before anyone says anything, the boards weren't nailed flush to the tree. Long nails were used and about 2 inches were left outside the sign to give the tree room to grow. Exactly the same way the FS uses plastic blazes to mark trails in the area. So don't even go there.

A better job could have been done and it wouldn't have been that hard.

take-a-knee
11-01-2009, 01:28
i think if you need to be led around by bright paint in the woods to cope, you should probably stay in the city.

Yeah, sure dude. I graduated from the toughest land navigation course on this planet, the STAR exam at Camp McKall, NC. The BMT is a frickin' MAN-MADE TRAIL, what part of MAN-MADE is so difficult for you to understand? I also realize that not everyone has had taxpayer-subsidized training like I've benefited from, they just want to go for hike and not get lost or run out of water...get a life.

kanga
11-01-2009, 08:28
Yeah, sure dude. I graduated from the toughest land navigation course on this planet, the STAR exam at Camp McKall, NC. The BMT is a frickin' MAN-MADE TRAIL, what part of MAN-MADE is so difficult for you to understand? I also realize that not everyone has had taxpayer-subsidized training like I've benefited from, they just want to go for hike and not get lost or run out of water...get a life.
i'm missing your point...was there one?:rolleyes:

DirtBagger
11-01-2009, 08:28
Yeah, sure dude. I graduated from the toughest land navigation course on this planet, the STAR exam at Camp McKall, NC. The BMT is a frickin' MAN-MADE TRAIL, what part of MAN-MADE is so difficult for you to understand? I also realize that not everyone has had taxpayer-subsidized training like I've benefited from, they just want to go for hike and not get lost or run out of water...get a life.


No. All that is incorrect, except what Kanga said.

Kanga's truthful revelation is good to go - the rest of that post should be stricken from the record. :p

babbage
11-01-2009, 08:39
i think if you need to be led around by bright paint in the woods to cope, you should probably stay in the city.

If you are just joining the post the above statement and other statements are correct, except the ones posted by you-know-who & the other you-know-who.

Apparently sniffing orange paint has clouded their judgement.

Sign Sign everywhere a sign / Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind / Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign ...

Stay where its safe city dwellers - let the men do the exploring.

sheepdog
11-01-2009, 08:42
Yeah, sure dude. I graduated from the toughest land navigation course on this planet, the STAR exam at Camp McKall, NC. The BMT is a frickin' MAN-MADE TRAIL, what part of MAN-MADE is so difficult for you to understand? I also realize that not everyone has had taxpayer-subsidized training like I've benefited from, they just want to go for hike and not get lost or run out of water...get a life.
He called kanga a dude :D

babbage
11-01-2009, 08:52
Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees. Revelation 7:3



Words to live-by, or words to preach-by? :-?

Egads
11-01-2009, 09:10
It's an eyesore, that no one can disagree. But passing eyesore and having water is better than LNT and having no water.:-?

Pedaling Fool
11-01-2009, 09:11
Words to live-by, or words to preach-by? :-?
Irrelevant to this discussion; it was just a ****ty unprofessional job, nothing else. LNT or environmental damage not an issue here.

babbage
11-01-2009, 12:03
Dos Equis -- These must really help the "where am I" crowd.


7254

beakerman
11-01-2009, 13:05
Irrelevant to this discussion; it was just a ****ty unprofessional job, nothing else. LNT or environmental damage not an issue here.

John has this completely surrounded I think. I don't think that even the hardest of the hardcore on either side would disagree that it looks like crap.

Personally I like the idea of knowing where water is when it is scarce. The active word there is scarce---I don't need to know where it is if I can find a spring every quarter mile but if it's 10 or more miles between fill ups and they are not visible from the trail then yes I want a small marker to tell me "hey there's a spring over there..."

I'll stack my navigation/map skills up against anyone or anything. I've been closer the pin via topo and compass as a GPS in head to head competition. But I don't want to miss the only water source for the next 10 for 15 miles because someone decided it was wrong to place some sort of marker on a post or tree so I could find it without pulling the the maps and compass out or looking at my GPS.

Dances with Mice
11-01-2009, 14:03
John has this completely surrounded I think. I don't think that even the hardest of the hardcore on either side would disagree that it looks like crap.

Personally I like the idea of knowing where water is when it is scarce. The active word there is scarce---I don't need to know where it is if I can find a spring every quarter mile but if it's 10 or more miles between fill ups and they are not visible from the trail then yes I want a small marker to tell me "hey there's a spring over there..."To me it's goes a little deeper and it's a blend of my tree-huggin' tendencies with a conservative core belief that any job worth doing is worth doing right. Put those two together and the orange slop is just plain disrespectful. And that's a problem.

My tree-huggin' self says water sources are important and they should be respected. I further believe that same care should also extend to how they're accessed and marked. The access trail shouldn't become a mudslide ending in the spring, for example. Globs of dayglo indicate a lack of care and concern. If it's marked trashy would it surprise anyone to find trash being left around the spring?

take-a-knee
11-01-2009, 14:55
To me it's goes a little deeper and it's a blend of my tree-huggin' tendencies with a conservative core belief that any job worth doing is worth doing right. Put those two together and the orange slop is just plain disrespectful. And that's a problem.

My tree-huggin' self says water sources are important and they should be respected. I further believe that same care should also extend to how they're accessed and marked. The access trail shouldn't become a mudslide ending in the spring, for example. Globs of dayglo indicate a lack of care and concern. If it's marked trashy would it surprise anyone to find trash being left around the spring?

I can't argue with that! Since you actually are a trail maintainer of good repute you've also earned the right to be critical of another maintainer's work. And again, many thanks for all you've done on the Duncan Ridge Trail.

Rockhound
11-01-2009, 16:18
2 inch X 4 inch blazes work just fine. Was the person who did this using a mop? I agree. This is an eyesore

bsa-troop6
11-02-2009, 09:30
Thanks for all the input. I am the TN/NC Maintenance Director for the BMT. It is all my fault. This used to be a section where people were getting lost with regularity due to poor maintenance and poor blazing, and on this long stretch there were only two water sources. We went overboard to be sure noone got lost or went thirsty. Once the tread gets more defined with use, we will tone things down and remove some of the blazes. Sorry to cause such an uproar. The other problem was that 4-wheelers use the trails on top of the mountain and hikers were following the 4-wheeler tracks off the mountain ridge rather than the BMT and getting lost. Keeping a trail well maintained and able to be followed without getting lost is a real challenge sometimes, especially in areas like this.

bsa-troop6
11-02-2009, 09:36
The picture with the trees with X's is where people were regularly following the 4-wheeler trail down the mountain. We had to do something to keep people on the correct trail. We even had some of our maintainers accidentally go down the wrong trail at this point and after they discovered their mistake, they did not get back to their cars until very late (and very tired, turning a 7 mile maintenance trip into about a 11 mile trip). We will go back and tone down the blazing soon.

beakerman
11-02-2009, 10:22
To me it's goes a little deeper and it's a blend of my tree-huggin' tendencies with a conservative core belief that any job worth doing is worth doing right. Put those two together and the orange slop is just plain disrespectful. And that's a problem.

My tree-huggin' self says water sources are important and they should be respected. I further believe that same care should also extend to how they're accessed and marked. The access trail shouldn't become a mudslide ending in the spring, for example. Globs of dayglo indicate a lack of care and concern. If it's marked trashy would it surprise anyone to find trash being left around the spring?


I think we agree but for different reasons...I think I'll let it at that...unless you disagree with that assesment.

babbage
11-02-2009, 10:29
I really appreciate all the work you guys have done to keep that trail clear. It was obvious that a lot of work had been done. Sorry I had to call out the paint issues.
Hopefully the trees will not sustain too much damage when that paint is removed.

On the bright side - at least one knucklehead liked the look of it.

bsa-troop6
11-02-2009, 14:32
We plan to go back up there on Wednesday. We will replace the orange with light blue diamonds at both the Round Top Spring and the one at the gap just north of Hazelnut. I will post pictures afterwards. Again thanks for all the zillions of comments. I think you all will like the resolution. Next time how about contacting us directly. This is easy to do through the www.bmta.org (http://www.bmta.org) website. I did not pick up on this concern until a couple of days ago when a friend brought it to my attention. If I had known much earlier, we could have fixed it a long time ago. I do belong to White Blaze but seldom check out what is being said about the BMT. I will try to do this more regularly. Before the maintenance we did on this section of trail this spring and summer, this section of trail was almost impassible. I inherited a lot of problems on the TN/NC section of the trail when I agreed to take over this maintenance coordination position. We are approaching getting the entire 100 miles of trail in the TN/NC section complete and up to standards, all in the past year. We also are about to publish a much needed trail guide to this section, and when it is out, I will let you all know. It will be available through www.bmta.org (http://www.bmta.org) and also REI and places like that.

mister krabs
11-02-2009, 14:40
Thanks for all the work you and the boys do, Doc. There's a special place in heaven reserved for trail maintainers. Maybe on the top of a mountain with a great view or something....

Rain Man
11-02-2009, 18:57
Before the maintenance we did on this section of trail this spring and summer, this section of trail was almost impassible. I inherited a lot of problems on the TN/NC section of the trail when I agreed to take over this maintenance coordination position. We are approaching getting the entire 100 miles of trail in the TN/NC section complete and up to standards, all in the past year. We also are about to publish a much needed trail guide to this section, and when it is out, I will let you all know....

Wow! Congrats and THANKS for all the hard work. I agree about a special place in heaven for trail maintainers. And apologies for the posters in this thread with reading comprehension problems.

Rain:sunMan

.

babbage
11-02-2009, 22:46
Oh Snap! :eek:

That is a challenge if I ever heard one... :p

It's remote, it's scary...but you'll know where the water is. :D

Well Rain man...are you gonna prove him wrong? :confused:

By the way-- if you aint got it in you to stay overnight there is a road to drive up to Sandy Gap. Or you could hike up Kirkland Creek to get there. But beware of the bears - no painted trees for those.
There was a mamma and two babies on Brookshire Creek, by-the-by.
And the Copperheads were everywhere, but they may be gone now.

It gets dark in them hills - anything can happen.

Hipneck
11-02-2009, 23:16
I have also passed these large and frequent blazes between Six Mile and Unicoi Gap. I think it is just being an ass to rip the maintainers, rather than sending a thoughtful message to the organization.

Regarding the 'stay in the city' comments, what gives you the right to make assumptions about the skills of others. Do we not benefit if others learn to enjoy, appreciate and then protect our parks and forests?

As a member of the BMTA, and a Trail Maintainer, I welcome all feedback about the state of the trail, but would like to see a more constructive approach.

Egads
11-03-2009, 07:39
I have also passed these large and frequent blazes between Six Mile and Unicoi Gap. I think it is just being an ass to rip the maintainers, rather than sending a thoughtful message to the organization.

Regarding the 'stay in the city' comments, what gives you the right to make assumptions about the skills of others. Do we not benefit if others learn to enjoy, appreciate and then protect our parks and forests?

As a member of the BMTA, and a Trail Maintainer, I welcome all feedback about the state of the trail, but would like to see a more constructive approach.

I passed that same spot at night last February. Had no water and only headlights. Would have made a difference to see the blaze for me. Ended up getting bad water out of the ditch at Unicoi Gap and getting sick as a dog.

MintakaCat
11-03-2009, 09:51
Goodness, all this anger on this thread.

I received word today that a friend of mine is off his chemo but is still taking a drug to help prevent his seizures. After receiving this news, I then read this thread.

Somehow, the orange paint on trees doesn’t seem important enough to which all this anger is merited. Important? Yes. Enough to get this angry? No.

Just saying.

sheepdog
11-03-2009, 10:18
Goodness, all this anger on this thread.

I received word today that a friend of mine is off his chemo but is still taking a drug to help prevent his seizures. After receiving this news, I then read this thread.

Somehow, the orange paint on trees doesn’t seem important enough to which all this anger is merited. Important? Yes. Enough to get this angry? No.

Just saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5513mXmQbw4

Alligator
11-03-2009, 11:22
A lot of drama here over some paint that's been scheduled to be fixed.

Deep breaths everyone. Breathe in...breathe out.........breathe in...................
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Breathe out.

Alligator
11-03-2009, 11:39
I see that the corrections may be made tomorrow but I would offer up possible alternatives/additions as well. Sometimes the light blue symbols are hard to determine as different than white in the dark, so if there was a suitable way to reflectorize them that would be great (if permissible). Those little dots the hunters use to mark trails really do stand out. Or a sign. When on autopilot, I will still home in on signs, particularly if they extend out from the main trunk of the tree.

Thanks for the hard work put into this trail. I have not had the opportunity to travel on it but I expect to someday.

weary
11-03-2009, 12:41
Too much blazing is a common problem among new maintainers, especially new maintainers who are also new to trails in general.

A neat dollar bill sized blaze, placed line of sight apart, quickly blends into the background and is not noticed except when a walker needs to pay special attention, and then it becomes visible.

Oversized, blotchy, irregular shaped blazes are a constant eyesore. I fought against the latter during the years I was an overseer in the 100-mile-wilderness. And do so constantly as stewardship chair of our local land trust trails.

Most maintainers quickly learn to appreciate the wisdom of restraint. But in the interest of full disclosure, I should report that from time to time I also hear complaints from folks who have gotten lost on our trails. I just tell them, sorry about that.

Weary

bsa-troop6
11-03-2009, 21:07
I, my wife, and my golden retriever are going up there tomorrow to fix the blazes as promised. It will be an 8 mile round trip hike in some pretty difficult territory. But the weather promises to be beautiful. We plan to go in from Beaverdam Bald and first hike out to Round Top and fix things there, then over to the campsite in the gap NE of Hazelnut, then back up hill to my car. By the way, the road up to Beaverdam Bald is now in great shape. It took the road people all summer to fix it up. And, there will stil be lots of flame orange on the trails -- it is the middle of hunting season for hogs and bears.

bsa-troop6
11-04-2009, 20:58
We did indeed go up to Round Top and the campsite NE of Hazelnut today and fixed the blazes. See the attached pictures. All done. No orange is left, except for all the hunters and hikers wanting to protect themselves from the hunters. It was a beautiful cool crisp crystal clear day today, temp about 60 with a light breeze. A perfect day for a high ridgeline hike. The leaves are off the trees and the views were incredible. I am having trouble uploading the pictures. If they don't show up, you can view them by going to www.cherokeehikingclub.org (http://www.cherokeehikingclub.org) and click on "2009 Maintenance Trips", then the date November 4, 2009, then when you come to that page, again click on the date of November 4, 2009. You will see pictures of the new blue blazes and the missing white X's. Enjoy. When we publish our new trail guide for the TN/NC section of the BMT, I will let you all know through this thread.

kanga
11-05-2009, 09:56
looks great. much better.

Tipi Walter
11-06-2009, 18:54
I've backpacked the section between Sled Runner and Sandy Gap a couple of times recently and did so when there was just some ribbons tied here and there. I didn't have any problems following the trail and found the water down in Moss Gap easy enough. I wouldn't want to nighthike it but in the day it was nice, I even camped for a night on the north side of Moss Gap. I'm glad it got fixed up and some of the paint removed. One of my favorite camps is atop Rocky Top by the big stones. Just haul water up from the Brookshire and you're set.

ce_rubicon
12-28-2009, 09:48
If you are just joining the post the above statement and other statements are correct, except the ones posted by you-know-who & the other you-know-who.

Apparently sniffing orange paint has clouded their judgement.

Sign Sign everywhere a sign / Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind / Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign ...

Stay where its safe city dwellers - let the men do the exploring.

I guess by your post your not a real man as it's pointless to explore a marked trail. The LNT post would not apply to any marked trail either as there is a trace by all markings.

generoll
12-28-2009, 13:29
i think if you need to be led around by bright paint in the woods to cope, you should probably stay in the city.

So, how was it finbding those water sources on the Chunky Gal trail? Too many blazes?

weary
12-28-2009, 14:21
I guess by your post your not a real man as it's pointless to explore a marked trail. The LNT post would not apply to any marked trail either as there is a trace by all markings.
LNT is impossible to achieve, with or without paint on trees. The guy who invented the concept long ago abandoned it as impossible to achieve. He quit the organization he had founded when others wouldn't go along. LNT is now a business. It keeps many people employed -- and the trails dirtier than when the hiker warnings were more achievable -- like a simple, "Carry In, Carry Out" message.

Weary

SGT Rock
12-28-2009, 14:29
like a simple, "Carry In, Carry Out" message.

Weary
Amen Weary

kanga
12-28-2009, 15:32
So, how was it finbding those water sources on the Chunky Gal trail? Too many blazes?
there were water sources on that trail?...:eek:

hikingshoes
12-28-2009, 16:21
I graduated from the toughest land navigation course on this planet!!!
Take-n-knee,i have to 2nd that course and my hats off to you brother!!

Connie
01-04-2010, 19:34
Egads,

Hiking at night. No headlamp for the painted tree.

What is wrong with that picture? Not the painted tree.

Hiking at night. No headlamp.

Trip on a root or a rock? Misstep, at night.

And this: Do you expect a perfectly groomed trail for your "wilderness" experience?


MintankaCat,

It seems to me more anger may be called for.

How is this the wilderness experience desired by the trail's namesake?

It seems to me, there are "manifest destiny" forces at work to "tame" the trail and make it another AT.



Hipneck,

Do we not benefit if others learn to enjoy, appreciate and then protect our parks and forests? No, not if it means there is no "wilderness experience" remaining there.

The Glacier National Park wilderness experience has been destroyed supposedly by well-meaning people: paved over lovely campgrounds and trout fishing made into trailer-parks, paved "trails" for handicap access, no parking in pretty spots, no walking because birds are nesting, little police-lines tape for counting plant species, permits far in advance, tickets from "backcountry rangers" for violations rather than helpful and instructive summer-hire "rangers". Dozens of brand new huge private homes for the rich behind Lake MacDonald. In the 1950's there were less than 5 private "in-holds" in the National Park.

This isn't the only wilderness "protected" as a National Park this is happening, either. Point Reyes National Seashore has numerous new private houses for the wealthy on the ridge looking over the Point Reyes National Seashore, and in one incident nearly burning down the entire Point Reyes National Seashore "protected" habitat. Playing with matches? Cooking drugs? The Sheriff lied, it was not on the private property owner's property. I met her. I know the truth.

The Golden Gate National Recreation Area, part of the National Seashore, has a gated enclave for new houses for "the rich" on the ridge overlooking The Golden Gate National Seashore who treat it like their personal property for walking the dog, resenting and complaining about "the public".

On The Golden Gate National Seashore-Ft. Baker side, "the rich" have even tried to take over Presidio Yacht Club. The new hotel, repeat: new hotel, in this "park" wants it for a restaurant.

I would say, a great deal of continuing effort is required to keep a "wilderness area" worthwhile as a "wilderness experience".


Alligater,

Tiny reflectors might be the acceptable answer, for water, and for replacing painted "blazes".

. . .

thelowend
02-24-2010, 02:56
I agree with Kanga on this one but only to a point. If you are on a long dry stretch of trail it is nice to have a marker letting you know that there is a spring over there that you may not be able to see from the trial. I don't know this particular trail so I don't have any idea how frequent water spots are along it but just based on the images posted I think thta these marks are more than excessive. That is definietly not what I mean by a marker letting you know where the water is...it should be something disctrete.

That's one thing but a water source that is 15 steps off a trail would surely be audible and easy to find WITHOUT big orange blazes. It looks like sewer and gas line markings in the city...

JustaTouron
02-24-2010, 10:32
My preference is for perfect blazed trails.

But in choosing between underblazed and overblazed. I prefer the latter. A couple of extra blazes has never caused me much grief. I don't like getting lost.

kanga
02-24-2010, 12:24
then maybe you should learn to use a map and compass?

JustaTouron
02-24-2010, 12:31
I know how to use a map and compass....but I find following the blazes makes for a much enjoyable hike then needing to check the map and compass constantly.

If you hate painted tree so much maybe you should avoid trails all together and bushwack.

kanga
02-24-2010, 12:34
i do bushwhack quite a bit thank you. i don't want to see alot of paint on the trail. you know, you would probably enjoy walking at the botanical gardens. they have little gravel paths and everything, so you don't have to concentrate so much.

weary
02-24-2010, 12:41
I greatly prefer underblazing. Properly drawn blazes (about the size of a dollar bill) judiciously placed so that only one or two can be seen at a time, quickly blend into the background and become unnoticed. Which is good. They become just another tiny intrusion into the sense of wildness I seek in the woods and hills.

As long as they can be seen with a little searching when I reach a confusing turn or intersection, that is all that is necessary. Too much of the AT is way overblazed in my opinion. I'd far rather get a little confused occasionally, than to walk along a trail that constantly shouts, "this way, stupid."

Weary

SGT Rock
02-24-2010, 13:37
It is one of the nice things about the Smokies outside the AT. NONE of the trails are blazed.

Another is the fact that here are only about 2 shelters on the other 700 miles of trails in the Smokies.

gunner76
02-24-2010, 17:36
Someone was afraid the hikers might miss the trail blazes

leaftye
02-24-2010, 18:34
I know how to use a map and compass....but I find following the blazes makes for a much enjoyable hike then needing to check the map and compass constantly.

Agreed. I'd rather have a trail that is ridiculously easy to follow so I can think less about navigation and enjoy aspects of the scenery that are not reflected by the topo maps.

leaftye
02-24-2010, 18:35
Oops, I meant to add that I still think those original orange blazes were too much, or maybe just too sloppy.

Mags
02-24-2010, 21:06
Agreed. I'd rather have a trail that is ridiculously easy to follow so I can think less about navigation and enjoy aspects of the scenery that are not reflected by the topo maps.

Luckily it is a big tent when it comes to trails. Want a well blazed and easy-to-follow trail? Do the AT, PCT, LT and others.

Want a bit of an adventure? Than do other trails (CDT, Cohos, BMT, others).

Not every trail has to be the AT.

For those who like something that is NOT the AT, I am glad there are other options. Lets keep it that way.

weary
02-24-2010, 22:10
Over blazing is the result of maintainer error, and poor supervision, not Appalachian Trail policy. The ATC field book for maintainers specifies that blazes should be "2-by-6 inch white rectangles with sharp corners and clean edges."

They are to be placed "at eye height, generally on the right side of the trail." And "placed at regular intervals determined by the character of the trail section and hiker safety."

"Where the trail is conspicuous, place a blaze at five minute intervals about 800 to 1,000 feet apart. in obscure places, place blazes no more than 100 yards apart, but be sure that, accept for junctions, along highways, or in open areas, you can never see more than one blaze at a time."

Note, it says "hiker safety," not hiker convenience. The trail manual specifically warns against too frequent blazes, "such that hikers find quantity unsightly, defacing the natural setting."

Weary

Mags
02-24-2010, 22:28
Just as an aside, this is the BMT sub-forum so different standards may apply
to this trail vs the AT.

weary
02-24-2010, 23:53
Just as an aside, this is the BMT sub-forum so different standards may apply
to this trail vs the AT.
I mostly work on my town's land trust trails these days. But I use the basic AT guidelines -- mostly because they are simple, sensible, uncomplicated, and preserve a sense of wildness, while preventing people from getting seriously lost. It's hard to control other volunteers, so occasionally I get complaints about too much blazing. So far no one has said there is too little.

SGT Rock
02-25-2010, 08:18
No complaints is a good thing.

The BMT goes through some wilderness areas where we have to follow the wilderness area usage rules. That means no blazing. Signs are allowed at intersections of trails.

Also means no power tools like chainsaws and brush cutters. We use two man cross cut saws, swing blades, etc. Not for wimps I can tell you. HOI and I spent 8 hours one day on a single blow down.

warraghiyagey
02-25-2010, 08:22
. . . HOI and I spent 8 hours one day on a single blow down.
I didn't know they had redwoods in tennessee. . . . :D

Appalachian Tater
02-26-2010, 00:08
Nothing is as bad as all that blue paint on the side trail to White House Landing.