View Full Version : What has happened to Golite?
Powder River
10-30-2009, 17:49
I've always been a big fan of Golite- I owned a 13 ounce goretex jacket for a long time, and when it wore out I was told the only thing close to it was a 15 ounce version. They used to offer the 11 ounce phantasm, which was their lightest goretex. You could also get much lighter gear in varying levels of waterproofness. I had a pair of 4 ounce water resistant pants once from them.
Now, looking at their web site all of that is gone. I see a 1lb, 2oz jacket being their lightest waterproof (which is not goretex). There are two softshells at 1lb, 7oz and 1lb, 9oz respectively. And that is all the jackets they sell! They still sell their wind jackets at 3 or 4 ounces, but that is their entire lineup, if you don't count the baselayers. There is exactly one pair of pants, which is 13 ounces.
If this is truly the direction this company is going then it is too bad because I always thought they made really good, lightweight gear. Now, maybe its time for a name change?
Blissful
10-30-2009, 19:33
Probably cause everyone else is jumping on the ultralight gear bandwagon. Leading to stiff competition. They began the revolution. I actually like Marmot's stuff like their windshirt. Never got into Golite though some swear by their packs.
The way I see it is that customers of cottage manufacturers tent to have a bit more sense of "responsibilities" and less focus on "rights" and by "rights" I mean the "it is never my fault" mentality.
Once a brand becomes more mainstream inevitably has to cope with the latter kind of customers. Hence the gear needs to be more klutz proof .
Franco
Wise Old Owl
10-30-2009, 20:55
Good answer Franco, I was thinking the returns would have caused a change.
TwoForty
10-30-2009, 22:00
They probably got a marketing department. Some gear designer can design light jackets all day, but some marketing guy will come in with graphs and charts and sayings like " put more pockets on it, our market research shows that the optimum number of pockets is 4" or "add a heavier fabric panel in the arms with contrast colors, the 18 to 24 year old market in <mountain resort town name here> prefers these colors" etc.
didnt ray jardine work with them until a certain point? and they've been getting heavier every season since
Powder River
10-31-2009, 01:15
They probably got a marketing department. Some gear designer can design light jackets all day, but some marketing guy will come in with graphs and charts and sayings like " put more pockets on it, our market research shows that the optimum number of pockets is 4" or "add a heavier fabric panel in the arms with contrast colors, the 18 to 24 year old market in <mountain resort town name here> prefers these colors" etc.
A certain amount of change along these lines makes sense. But looking at their lineup it seems very bizarre that they are only offering one waterproof jacket, 2 softshells and the rest baselayers. The fact that everything is now as heavy as North Face isn't the strangest thing- the weirdest part is that this is their entire line. So they lose all of their old customers who want light gear, and they hope to compete against the likes of Mountain Hardwear, ArcTeryx, Marmot, Cloudveil, etc. with a single heavy jacket. This doesn't seem like a good idea from any angle.
skinewmexico
10-31-2009, 03:34
Creeping featurism.
Doooglas
10-31-2009, 03:40
I've always been a big fan of Golite- I owned a 13 ounce goretex jacket for a long time, and when it wore out I was told the only thing close to it was a 15 ounce version. They used to offer the 11 ounce phantasm, which was their lightest goretex. You could also get much lighter gear in varying levels of waterproofness. I had a pair of 4 ounce water resistant pants once from them.
Now, looking at their web site all of that is gone. I see a 1lb, 2oz jacket being their lightest waterproof (which is not goretex). There are two softshells at 1lb, 7oz and 1lb, 9oz respectively. And that is all the jackets they sell! They still sell their wind jackets at 3 or 4 ounces, but that is their entire lineup, if you don't count the baselayers. There is exactly one pair of pants, which is 13 ounces.
If this is truly the direction this company is going then it is too bad because I always thought they made really good, lightweight gear. Now, maybe its time for a name change?
My take on it is that the idiocy known as ultralight me be under some " correction"....like every thing else in the USA.:rolleyes:
Counting ounces is cute and great fun but the reality of "living" outdoors, for extended periods of time, makes it necessary......to a sane person......... to focus on at least medium durability and some convenience and comfort..
That means getting real, getting fit, and not worrying about 3 or 5 more pounds if the 'tools" are of superior quality..
I haven't set foot on the AT in almost 30 years but back in the day it was a lot of fun.Yes. Fun. No schedules or timelines, few postal drops or hostels or chauffeurs or other such nonsense existed.
Nowadays it's who is the lightest and fastest. The people have missed the point of the trail. It was designed to allow for a pioneer experience.
The idiocracy, formerly known as the United States, has turned it into some kind of twisted sporting event.
My gore tex jacket, a 1989? Snow Creek, weighs in at something over 2 lbs.I wear it almost 250 days a year and it's still in fairly nice condition.
LOL. My empty guiding pack, a Crossfire DG3, weighs close to nine pounds.
Matter of fact I'm taking a group up Chirripo on Sunday.I'll be toting around 40 lbs, as usual.:)
g8trh8tr
10-31-2009, 09:29
My take on it is that the idiocy known as ultralight me be under some " correction"....like every thing else in the USA.:rolleyes:
Counting ounces is cute and great fun but the reality of "living" outdoors, for extended periods of time, makes it necessary......to a sane person......... to focus on at least medium durability and some convenience and comfort..
That means getting real, getting fit, and not worrying about 3 or 5 more pounds if the 'tools" are of superior quality..
I haven't set foot on the AT in almost 30 years but back in the day it was a lot of fun.Yes. Fun. No schedules or timelines, few postal drops or hostels or chauffeurs or other such nonsense existed.
Nowadays it's who is the lightest and fastest. The people have missed the point of the trail. It was designed to allow for a pioneer experience.
The idiocracy, formerly known as the United States, has turned it into some kind of twisted sporting event.
My gore tex jacket, a 1989? Snow Creek, weighs in at something over 2 lbs.I wear it almost 250 days a year and it's still in fairly nice condition.
LOL. My empty guiding pack, a Crossfire DG3, weighs close to nine pounds.
Matter of fact I'm taking a group up Chirripo on Sunday.I'll be toting around 40 lbs, as usual.:)
Everyone has an opinion but I respectfully disagree wth this. I understand that everyone wants their own experience on the trail and we all expect/get a different experience which makes it unique for all. I truly enjoy the experience when hiking with my appriximately 25 lb all inclusive load. It allows me to relax and enjoy all the things around me without being painful/miserable due to the load I am carrying. I have never been in a situation where my gear failed me because it was lightweight. I am in the Army and have plenty of time to carry heavy/bulletproof gear. Having said that, I would never carry it on the trail because I don't need to carry it to know it sux to carry. To each their own though.
My empty guiding pack, a Crossfire DG3, weighs close to nine pounds.
Matter of fact I'm taking a group up Chirripo on Sunday.I'll be toting around 40 lbs, as usual
Yes , and the annoying part about those UL idiots is that they take every opportunity they get to preach their Gospel, totally unlike wise people that have a pack that is 1/4 of the total carried weight.
Franco
My empty guiding pack, a Crossfire DG3, weighs close to nine pounds.
Matter of fact I'm taking a group up Chirripo on Sunday.I'll be toting around 40 lbs, as usual
Yes , and the annoying part about those UL idiots is that they take every opportunity they get to preach their Gospel, totally unlike wise people that have a pack that is 1/4 of the total carried weight.
Franco
(Franco needs shoehorn to get tongue unwedged from cheek):rolleyes:. (I hope).
Yep, some of us OLD farts CAN carry 40 lb. packs for the weekend, but who really WANTS to?
I carried less than that into the so-called Hundred Mile Wilderness (9 days). I didn't lack anything, and most of my days were in the 12-15 mile range - hardly hurrying along.
Funny thing is I don't consider myself to be an UL hiker, much less an idiot. The stuff I replaced was heavier, sure, it was bulletproof, sure, but the stuff I replaced it WITH is JUST as bulletproof and much, much lighter.
My hiking is MUCH more fun than it was just 10 years ago, and I'm not getting any younger!:D
My empty guiding pack, a Crossfire DG3, weighs close to nine pounds.
Matter of fact I'm taking a group up Chirripo on Sunday.I'll be toting around 40 lbs, as usual
Yes , and the annoying part about those UL idiots is that they take every opportunity they get to preach their Gospel, totally unlike wise people that have a pack that is 1/4 of the total carried weight.
Franco
Stupidest post I've read in a long time
Stupidest post I've read in a long time
I believe he was jesting.:)
Egads
I have been warned many times that Americans don't understand irony and yes I experienced that first hand over there. Spent half of my time reminding my two mates about that...
( IE I had to explain that comments like "we all keep kangaroos in our backyards" are not to be taken seriously. After a few days of that I would just give a filthy look at those other two, just to shut them up)
Often here there are posts about how UL folk always preach, funny thing is that I see more insults flying from the other side .
May not be obvious to some but to call ultralight "idiocy" defines those who practice that as "idiots" ( well at least it does here...)
Not that I really care because with a base weight of around 16 lbs I am not even "light" but "comfortably light..."
Franco
Stupidest post I've read in a long time
I believe he was jesting.:)
Egads
I have been warned many times that Americans don't understand irony"
Franco
I was referring to my own post :o
Furlough
11-01-2009, 08:56
For an interesting, amusing and well written insight on Go Lite and it's founder you need to get Winton Porter's book "Just Passin' Thru. Demetri "Coup" Coupounas now holds the record for the heaviest pack to be weighed in at Mountain Crossings - 136 lbs.
For an interesting, amusing and well written insight on Go Lite and it's founder you need to get Winton Porter's book "Just Passin' Thru. Demetri "Coup" Coupounas now holds the record for the heaviest pack to be weighed in at Mountain Crossings - 136 lbs.
The root of the story was a failed marketing scheme
Furlough
11-01-2009, 09:30
The root of the story was a failed marketing scheme
Perhaps. But, the read was still humorous and irony tinged. The founder of Go-Lite humping a 136 pound ruck into Mountain Crossings, marketing failure or not, and the ensuing ribbing he took by other hikers was funny.
Never trust anyone who cuts the tongues out of his running shoes, carries an umbrella in the woods, or starts a company on a whim..........
FamilyGuy
11-01-2009, 10:50
What's more impressive: the person who packs under 20 pounds and hikes 400 miles with 3 food caches or the person who packs 40 pounds and hikes 400 miles unsupported?
Or are both relevant approaches?
XCskiNYC
11-01-2009, 11:11
The 20 lb guy would probably enjoy his hike more.
The 40 lb guy would probably relish his meals more, finishing each one and thinking, Mmmmmm, that was good, and now my pack weighs 4 ozs less. Thank goodness.
FamilyGuy
11-01-2009, 11:19
The 20 lb guy would probably enjoy his hike more.
The 40 lb guy would probably relish his meals more, finishing each one and thinking, Mmmmmm, that was good, and now my pack weighs 4 ozs less. Thank goodness.
Note that I said nothing about base weights, which could be very similar. The additional weight would be food. 1/2 the way through, the person who started @ 40 lbs would now be close to the guy who just resupplied in terms of total weight.
One guy is self sufficient. The other is a speed dater.;)
Mrs Baggins
11-01-2009, 15:10
For an interesting, amusing and well written insight on Go Lite and it's founder you need to get Winton Porter's book "Just Passin' Thru. Demetri "Coup" Coupounas now holds the record for the heaviest pack to be weighed in at Mountain Crossings - 136 lbs.
Absolutely LOVED Winton's opinion of GoLite - - "Go Freeze." Amen to that. :D Maybe that's why their stuff is getting heaiver. It's just common sense and safety.
Jack Tarlin
11-01-2009, 15:32
Actually, I don't agree with the poster who called the 136-pound pack a "failed marketing scheme".
What the Founder of Go-Lite originally planned on doing was to hike for 40 days, unsupported, i.e. he was not planning to resupply anywhere for 40 days.
His main interest was in seeing how his liteweight gear would hold up with this kind of packload, as over the years, his company (as well as other liteweight companies) have been on the receiving end of all sorts of flack for being flimsy, poorly constructed, etc. What Demitri was mainly interested in was seeing how well his pack performed under a GREAT deal of stress.
And in this, I think he succeeded, as I had firmly believed that his pack would almost immediately explode with any more than fifty-odd pounds in it, never mind 136.
As it turned out, he decided not to hike for 40 days, tho I honestly believe he could have if he really wanted to. (After all, just getting the 30-odd miles from Springer to Neel Gap with that monstruous pack was no small feat!)
So all in all, calling this a "failed marketing scheme" seems a little unfair. He wanted to see how his pack would perform in the field if he REALLY exceeded the manufacturers specs for that particular piece of gear. And he wanted to call the lie to folks who described his products as flimsy, weak, and prone to exploding.
This is what he mainly wanted to do, and he entirely succeeded.
Anyone who doubts this would perhaps be interested in knowing that I was actually present when he arrived in Neel Gap and I actually put on his pack and walked a short distance in it; I also got to discuss his trip in some detail with Demetri.
Cool guy. Good gear.
stranger
11-01-2009, 20:39
The question comes down to sales...it always does. I worked in the outdoor industry for about 9 years and this constantly frustrated me, but it's a reality. The number one goal of any outdoor company is to sell products, everything else is second, and I've heard this from some pretty big names in the business.
What thru-hikers and long distance hikers don't tend to understand is that we are the absolute, vast minority of hikers that buy products - almost to the point where we don't even count. I don't know what the statistic is these days, but back in the late 90's and early 00's the average "backpacker" spent 3 nights, 4 days backpacking annually.
Those average hikers are who most manufacturers are trying to reach, cause there are a million of them, how many thru-hikers are out there in any given year... 3000? 4000? So it would be very difficult for a company like Go-lite to stay in business simply building stuff for real, ultra-light hikers.
I don't really have a view on Go-lite, they do some things well, while others are a bit amusing, but that's alot of companies I guess. And while Go-lite may have started to overbuild things, we now have other companies like Granite Gear, Osprey, Gregory, Montbell and Mountain Hardware all paying much more attention to weight than before Go-lite existed, and new companies like ULA, Mountain Laurel Designs, Tarptent, and Six Moon Designs that didn't exist before Go-lite... and dozens more!
So even if Go-lite ends up abandoning their initial Jardine style approach, and they will if they haven't already, they have influenced the market more than any other single outdoor company... even if only in a name "Go Lite", and they deserve some credit for that.
TwoForty
11-01-2009, 21:07
I don't completely agree with the above post.
If the big guys are going to ignore the small niche market with a lot of money in it, someone will come in to take the market share and give us what we want. The cottage gear industry mostly caters to this. Of course I still believe their main goal is making money, but at least they listen.
I've seen the numbers for ULA. They make a nice living catering to the 3000-4000 of us. I imagine Gossamer Gear and the others do as well.
And I don't think GoLite revolutionized anything, personally.
Jack Tarlin
11-01-2009, 21:12
But the small companies that make a nice niche living, as you put it, for the most part, weren't even around when Go-Lite started out.
Go Lite helped lead the way, so I don't know about "revolutionizing" things, but it is clear that later companies studied GoLite products, learned from their innovations, and then attempted to improve on them.
So I think the company is more important than some folks are willing to give credit for.
One of the largest outdoor specialist here in Australia (Paddy Pallin) started as "cottage manufacturer". Paddy was a bushwalking enthusiast that had no money whatsoever so had to make his own gear. Eventually that became a retail shop , then two and so on.
At the start a lot of the products were , a bit like Go Lite's Ray Jardine stuff, very basic but light and relatively cheap.
They gave up manufacturing here a few years ago and all they have now under their label are some clothing lines.
Why did they give up on "cheap and light ?" well simply it was too hard to sell. Took too much time explaining to and reassuring the average customer. And yes having spent almost 30 years in the same street as all the specialists here, I fully agree with Stranger's comments. Like it or not that is the reality.
Franco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Pallin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Pallin)
stranger
11-02-2009, 01:38
I never said Go Lite revolutionized anything, my point was that they were the ones who brought it to the mainstream more so than any other company.
Perhaps it would be best if people read posts thoroughly before attempting to counter a point that was never raised in the first place.
Jack Tarlin
11-02-2009, 19:07
Stranger:
My comment about "revolutionizing" things was directed at a poster named TwoForty and not at you. I don't think Franco's subsequent comment was directed at you, either.
Perhaps it would be best if people read and understood posts thoroughly before getting all insecure and defensive thinking they were being subject to
criticism in the first place...... sometimes the comments have nothing to do with them at all. :D
Mrs Baggins
11-02-2009, 20:18
What's more impressive: the person who packs under 20 pounds and hikes 400 miles with 3 food caches or the person who packs 40 pounds and hikes 400 miles unsupported?
Or are both relevant approaches?
NEITHER of them "impress" me. Do what makes you comfortable. If I absolutely have to decide, I'm pretty much totally UNimpressed by the UL person. It's a swaggering arrogant "I'm so superior to you" attitude. Are you REALLY warm enough? Are you REALLY getting enough to eat? REALLY? Or are you begging off everyone else for food? Shivering in what little you have for clothing/sleep system while saying "No, really I'm fine! Plenty warm enough!"
stranger
11-04-2009, 01:56
Apologies Jack, I was commenting on the same post as you...My comment was not a response to your post.
Cheers.
Do what makes you comfortable.
Can't argue with that. That's different for everyone. For an experienced minimalist who walks all day it is one set of gear For a person who likes to camp more than hike, that's another.
Both are wonderful approaches.
Are you REALLY warm enough? Are you REALLY getting enough to eat? REALLY? Or are you begging off everyone else for food?
Well, besides the fact that I tend to hike where there are less people (no food to cadge), I have to say I am REALLY warm enough. REALLY. :D
I don't know why people get so zealous over what other people pack.
Gear is the least important part of hiking. Yet more bandwidth is wasted on it than anything else.
Easier to discuss I suppose....
When I did a backpacking trip this summer with friends, no one discussed their gear. We were just so happy to be in a pristine area and waking up to a beautiful place.
When I went solo in various places over the year, the only people who discussed gear with me on the trail were people new to long distance hiking (the TRT is a wonderful beginners trail....) Everyone else? What a beautiful morning. Full of potential, joy and new horizons.
And that is what backpacking is (mainly) about.
To quote that Taoist work called Calvin and Hobbes:
"The world looks brand-new," said Hobbes.
"A New Year ... a fresh clean start," said Calvin.
"It's like having a big white sheet of paper to draw on," said Hobbes.
"A day full of possibilities," said Calvin.
"It's a magical world, Hobbes old buddy ... let's go exploring."
--last words of the CALVIN AND HOBBES comic strip
So..let's go exploring.
The rest? Discuss what titanium whatchamahooseys and lexan widgets you and everyone else carries.
Mrs Baggins
11-04-2009, 19:49
Can't argue with that. That's different for everyone. For an experienced minimalist who walks all day it is one set of gear For a person who likes to camp more than hike, that's another.
Both are wonderful approaches.
Well, besides the fact that I tend to hike where there are less people (no food to cadge), I have to say I am REALLY warm enough. REALLY. :D
I don't know why people get so zealous over what other people pack.
Gear is the least important part of hiking. Yet more bandwidth is wasted on it than anything else.
Easier to discuss I suppose....
When I did a backpacking trip this summer with friends, no one discussed their gear. We were just so happy to be in a pristine area and waking up to a beautiful place.
When I went solo in various places over the year, the only people who discussed gear with me on the trail were people new to long distance hiking (the TRT is a wonderful beginners trail....) Everyone else? What a beautiful morning. Full of potential, joy and new horizons.
And that is what backpacking is (mainly) about.
To quote that Taoist work called Calvin and Hobbes:
"The world looks brand-new," said Hobbes.
"A New Year ... a fresh clean start," said Calvin.
"It's like having a big white sheet of paper to draw on," said Hobbes.
"A day full of possibilities," said Calvin.
"It's a magical world, Hobbes old buddy ... let's go exploring."
--last words of the CALVIN AND HOBBES comic strip
So..let's go exploring.
The rest? Discuss what titanium whatchamahooseys and lexan widgets you and everyone else carries.
Bless you for your fair and balanced opinion. :sun
TwoForty
11-04-2009, 22:47
Apologies Jack, I was commenting on the same post as you...My comment was not a response to your post.
Cheers.
My "And I don't think GoLite revolutionized anything, personally." comment wasn't direct towards you, it was a general comment. Everything above it was though :D
I see people credit them for some light weight revolution when I don't think they really made that much of a difference. I rarely see golite gear anywhere, but I only started hiking in 2003.
When I started searching the Internet for info on lightweight gear (2003 ???) GoLite was one of if not the most discussed brand. Since then many more cottage makers appeared and have taken over that role whilst GoLite has gone more mainstream.
So yes, they did have a lot of influence on what we have today.
Franco
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 17:25
Franco:
You are quite correct. Anyone who has been hiking since 2003 and who claims that they've rarely seen GoLite gear anywhere evidently hasn't been hiking enough. :rolleyes:
Montana AT05
11-07-2009, 16:22
Not sure about the gear and clothing line, but the GoLite shoe division was sold to Timber...err, umm, Timberline? I dunno--that old high top boot maker.
Then it (GoLite shoes) were discontinued.
GoLite peaked in 2007, the year Andrew Skurka appeared on the cover of National Geopgraphic looking like a backpacking version of a Nascar driver (GoLite labels on everything as he hiked on a mountain).
Then the plummeted.
I never cared for their tarps or poncheo and such. Bad quality.
The Golite Jam2 backpack? Love it.
Someone mentioned "feature creep" and I couldn't agree more. I want to take the Columbia and North Face A5 series designers to the wood shed.
"Oh hey, HEY! Guys! Great idea, let's sew on 12 pockets of various sizes and shapes, some with velcro, zippers, buttons or no fasteners. We'll put a pocket ON a pocket! We'll make a pocket sized and shaped for a pen! We'll make a pocket that only a three year old's fingers can get into! OMG we're design and marketing GENIUSES!! Yea us! Go us!"
Northface used to make simple, light, durable, wind and water repellant pants that fit and felt like pajamas. Now their pants have logos and rivtes and poorly placed seams that rub and annoy even when sitting.
Seriously, if you're in your mid twenties or early thirties and have a penchant for "white boarding" or "Power-pointing" your latest pants design...don't.
And Franco, ease up on your ridiculous mationality generalities lest their recoil give yo a well-deserved obe-way trip onto arse. American's don't understand irony? Oh really all 300+ million of us? That just makes you look stupid, when we all know you look like Crocodile Dundee. Just like all other Australian guys.
Beside New Zealand > Australia. Sheep included.
Golite was bought by Timberland, but Golite is licensing back everything from the ankles up from Timberland and they share only Marketing etc. with them. Timberland has complete control over the ankles down (socks and shoes).
Montana AT05
" generalities"
You are perfectly correct, a good example of that is your last comment
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3433375.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3433375.stm)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3433375.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3433375.stm)
http://grammar.about.com/b/2008/05/28/are-americans-irony-deficient.htm (http://grammar.about.com/b/2008/05/28/are-americans-irony-deficient.htm)
BTW, to save you reading those articles, essentially Brits (and Aussies) have a different time place for irony.
Franco
BTW, as far as I know, Timberland only purchased the shoe division of Golite, not GoLite itself.
I assure you that the deer I keep in my yard are far cooler than your kangaroos. :)
Mudhead
I hope so. It is 30c here (86f) at 10 AM on a spring day.
Stupid council now has put a limit of 10 roos per household. What am I supposed to do with the rest of the mob ?
Nothing to do with the thread but since the point was raised...
Intelligence and humour are not interrelated. Anyone that has a little bit of intelligence can have a sense of humour, however there are many very intelligent people that have no sense of humour at all.
To me it has a lot to do with not taking oneself too seriously and taste. That is why two people of similar intelligence will like different types of humour just like some like vanilla and others chocolate. I like both. (not mixed)
Franco
I think we are leaving the "Golden Age of Gear" for a while. Companies are focusing more on mainstream hikers due to the economy and marketing wizards. I think only new "cottage" types will fill in the niches for the next many years. Good quality gear is getting expensive (is it mass made in China?) and harder to find IMO.
Hike On
"Good quality gear is getting expensive "
Not really. When you compare the average purchasing power today with say 10/20 years ago, often the opposite is true.
But it is true that advancements happen in spurts, however they still happen.
Silnylon has made a significant impact particularly in tents (yes it has taken a long time..) but for example the new MacPac line up using that is now about 20% lighter than last year. (but of course some will object having to seam seal them...)
Next we will provably have laminates, like Cuben., used by mainstream brands.
One point that people forget when discussing what is affordable, is that our great grandparents had a few hundred "objects" in their possession, now we have tens of thousand and well we have bought most of them...
( as a teenager I had about 10 LP's , do you know any teenager that has a total of 10 CDs ?) Yed CD are "so expensive these days" ...
In case that is not clear, look at the list of things the average hiker has now compared to say 30 years ago.
Basically it isn't that we can afford less, but that we want more.
Franco
Get some of your boomers to be troopers.
Does anyone avoid labels? It seems like GoLite has become the alternative NF label of choice among the cool kids. Around here. Might be 5 years behind the times.
GoLite is somewhat the TNF of the outdoor world I guess because it is (for a light weight company) well known.
I do think their Jam II pack is a wonderful all-purpose pack and I have some their shorts and technical shirts (warehouse sale every year..and my housemate at the time worked it. $5 running shorts. $15 long sleeve tops. $30 pack!)
But, as I think Franco said, as a company gets larger they have to make gear more for the general purpose crowd...who tend to be less self-sufficient and more demanding. So feature creep settles in a bit.
I don't their gear is junk by any means per se (as I said, I really think the Jam II is a great, well designed pack), but there are usually better alternatives in the cottage gear market at this point for those who want lightweight gear.
ps. I am in my mid-30s. Maybe that is why I have no idea what "whiteboarding pants designs" means. :D
stranger
11-30-2009, 02:44
Earlier in this thread we were talking about how sustainable it was for a small company to maintain it's original purpose while still keeping their head above water. ULA was mentioned as a company that is doing well in this market.
I've recently heard ULA has been sold...gets you thinking
Earlier in this thread we were talking about how sustainable it was for a small company to maintain it's original purpose while still keeping their head above water. ULA was mentioned as a company that is doing well in this market.
I've recently heard ULA has been sold...gets you thinking
Yes but Brian sold out to a couple that he's known for awhile and not a corporation as he's apparently wanted to move on to something else for awhile. He took 2 years to find the right person to sell to and at least for now, nothing is really going to change other then the fact that ULA will no longer shut down from Aug-Dec. But who knows what will happen in the future.
Montana AT05
11-30-2009, 13:47
BTW, to save you reading those articles, essentially Brits (and Aussies) have a different time place for irony.
Franco
Point was, get over yourself Franco.
Your original post was poorly formatted (the one where you made a good point that was lost in your poor formatting on page 1). Instead of realizing this, you went off on yet another tiresome rant against Americans based on one poster who misread your post--and who might not even be American to begin with.
Get over it. You're Australian. There is nothing wrong with that. You'll be ok. Maybe.
And GoLite--I only like their packs. Can't stand the other lines. Plus, the wanted more dollars and the UL market is too small for that.
It can be frustrating that you can't depend on good products remaining available.
But if you turn that around, it can become part of the challenge.
Part of the game is independance and self-reliance.
Part of that is finding stuff, part of that is making stuff, and part of that is making do.
It's good to develop an good eye for functional stuff, but you can't expect it to be easy.
Keep the faith. Good hunting.
Johnny Thunder
11-30-2009, 14:35
I agree that marketing misguides these changes to the products we know and love. Go Lite's jumped the shark on our little niche market. And, that's fine. Good luck to 'em. It was fun using all their great stuff and having them inform the rest of the gear industry on how to innovate towards the future.
You're always going to find that the lightest weight gear is engineered using the simplest means. That the young, small companies...handcuffed by their lack of development dollars just chose the easiest and most simple way to make things. Often these people are hikers sewing our gear in their garages. Great. Simplicity leads to efficiency.
But, in my backpack weight is a zero-sum equation. If the jacket takes 10 ounces off the top then that's another beer that's heading out of town. Go Lite gear was great, and I'd still use it if I could...I even called Dmitri this summer to ask if there was any way there might be a slightly larger version of my pack (to accommodate the town-deserting-sixer).
To propose that one could live year round on the gear in a 40 pound pack is ludicrous. Stuff breaks no matter how heavy it is.
I think that the great tragedy here is that GoLite seems to be moving away from our market with out a clear vision of success. Anyone looking for another great example of this is the story of Airwalk skateboard sneakers from Malcome Gladwell's Outliers.
During the Fall and Spring I travel 2 weeks out of 4. People notice my lightweight gear and remark how great it must be to have a rain jacket that packs the size of a t-shirt. or a backpack that holds a week's worth of clothes and fits in the overhead compartment. Still, no Go Lite in the SkyMall magazine.
Johnny Thunder
11-30-2009, 15:02
Airwalk study was from The Tipping Point, sorry.