View Full Version : Did therma-rest change?
Bearpaw88
10-31-2009, 21:17
This summer I bought a woman 3/4 length therma-rest. I was tired of my big agnes popping, and was assured by several customers that therma-rest material is more durable. I gave it a shot.
I was out 2 days before it popped. I called the company who offers free repairs, but decided against sending it in because I would have nothing to use on the trail in the meantime. Since then I have hiked 700 miles and have repaired it 6 times. All the holes I find are on the top of the matt. On the fabric there are small circles. Every hole seems to be one of these circles fallen off.
I have talked to other hikers this year who have bought new therma-rests and have had similar failures. Then another hiker showed me an old therma-rest in which the material was smooth and he has never had a hole.
So, did they sacrafice durability for ultra light? I don't think they sell the smooth fabric mattresses anymore. Any thoughts? Experiences?
That is very strange indeed! Circles of material falling off?
I have a Thermarest 3/4 length that I bought in 1984. It was one of the originals with the brass valve (which I replaced with a plastic one since the brass ones tended to jam). I've never had a hole in it. I bought a full length one in the late 1990s for winter camping and, except once when I fell asleep with my knife open (don't ask) and cut a slice in it I've never had a problem with it.
Yes, I would say that there's a good probability that Cascade Designs has lightened the T-rest core to the point where it couldn't be lightened any more and they are experimenting with lighter fabrics (and coatings) and having problems. The seams on the T-rest mats are electronically welded and, just as it is with thin metals, welding is more difficult to do perfectly on thin fabrics. If the circles you mentioned are on or next to seams, I'd suspect that the fabric got a bit too hot there from the welding process and was weakened, leading to failure.
Lighter isn't necessarily better.
I've owned Slumber Jack, Big Agnes and Thermarest air mattresses over the years. All have leaked after some point in time. I'm not sure if it is me being too heavy, sharp objects cutting the mattress, valves giving way. Not Sure. I almost bought a traditional Thermarest closed cell foam pad this year. While I was searching to order one, I saw that Big Agnes had a 'petite' air mattress. Only 16 oz and it's 48" long. So I bought it. So far so good. The Big Agnes reminds me of the air mattresses that we used to use in swimming pools as kids. And they have enough cushion to give you a good nite's sleep. Oh, and I have a Thermarest 3/4 ultralite air mattress. It works well, is lite weight but is too thin. My hips hurt after sleeping on it. I belive that placing a space blanket under your air mattress will probably make it last longer. I wish I had done this more consistently.
I don't understand what you're talking about but I have had my Prolite 3 since 2006 and have had no problems whatsoever with it, unless you count the fact that it doesn't self inflate at all a problem.
Can you show a picture of what you're talking about?
sheepdog
11-01-2009, 08:18
My 3/4 thermarest is 5 years old. Lots of miles no problems.
I suspect that in their quest to reduce weight, Cascade Designs has tinkered with the materials from time to time. Some of the changes have worked out, but clearly, some of the changes have not. Our son had problems with a newer Thermarest. Our older ones keep going without problems.
nitewalker
11-01-2009, 09:14
here is a prolite 3 short if my link works correctly.
http://cache.prolitegear.com/prolitegear/images/large/thermarest_prolite3_lg.jpg (http://www.prolitegear.com/pl_thermarest_prolite3_short.html)
RedneckRye
11-01-2009, 09:35
"I was tired of my big agnes popping"
"I was out 2 days before it popped."
"and have repaired it 6 times"
Popped, as in the outer nylon has separated from the foam and created a raised bubble?
Or punctured, as in a hole in the outer nylon thru which air is escaping?
I've worked at a gear shop for way too long now, it is rare to have a pad come back in with holes on the top unless it was used as a sit pad in the evening around a campfire.
Is your pad a self inflating Thermarest or one of the new Neo-Airs?
How many times have you heard this on the trail?
"D@mn Chinese cr@p!"
RedneckRye
11-01-2009, 11:38
How many times have you heard this on the trail?
"D@mn Chinese cr@p!"
What??
I'm standing here at work looking at a whole rack full of pads.
Thermarest pads, from the Neo-airs and all of their other inflatable pads, even the closed cell foam Ridge Rest and Z-Lite pads, are made in Seattle.
Have been since 1971....
http://cascadedesigns.com/Our-Story
GeneralLee10
11-01-2009, 12:45
I have the prolite 4 small and it seems to work just fine. The round things on mine are the bottom of the pad. Maybe your not taking care of your items as well as you should.:)
Jayboflavin04
11-01-2009, 18:20
What??
I'm standing here at work looking at a whole rack full of pads.
Thermarest pads, from the Neo-airs and all of their other inflatable pads, even the closed cell foam Ridge Rest and Z-Lite pads, are made in Seattle.
Have been since 1971....
http://cascadedesigns.com/Our-Story
I was going to say....all cascade design stuff is made in washington. I think I read that they intend to keep it that way.
Where it is in your pack could be worth examining as well. Tent poles could put a nice round punch through tough fabric during a day of walking. I damaged a food bag once that way.
Zippers on clothes and things in pockets could be the culprit.
Embers from a fire will burn holes in clothes and a pad.
Bearpaw88
11-02-2009, 02:45
I don't understand what you're talking about but I have had my Prolite 3 since 2006 and have had no problems whatsoever with it, unless you count the fact that it doesn't self inflate at all a problem.
Can you show a picture of what you're talking about?
I don't have a digital camera, and all the holes are covered with patches now
Bearpaw88
11-02-2009, 02:49
"I was tired of my big agnes popping"
"I was out 2 days before it popped."
"and have repaired it 6 times"
Popped, as in the outer nylon has separated from the foam and created a raised bubble?
Or punctured, as in a hole in the outer nylon thru which air is escaping?
I've worked at a gear shop for way too long now, it is rare to have a pad come back in with holes on the top unless it was used as a sit pad in the evening around a campfire.
Is your pad a self inflating Thermarest or one of the new Neo-Airs?
The Big Agnes punctured. The thermarest holes look like punctures as well, but as they kept happening it looks like, as I said these plastic circles are just falling off and causing leaks.
I don't use it as a sit pad and I use a foam thermarest underneath it in my tent. After the first 2 holes I was extra careful about zippers, and things in my pockets. I believe I am taking good care of it.
It is a self inflating pad, but it doesn't really self inflate.
Bearpaw88
11-02-2009, 02:54
Where it is in your pack could be worth examining as well. Tent poles could put a nice round punch through tough fabric during a day of walking. I damaged a food bag once that way.
Zippers on clothes and things in pockets could be the culprit.
Embers from a fire will burn holes in clothes and a pad.
I keep my poles on the outside of my pack now for that reason. I do take care of it as well as I can.
This year several hikers have mentioned only having problems with new thermarests. Which is why I think they switched fabric.
On the whole I think the only solution for a pad that doesn't leak or get punctured is to use foam. Unless someone is selling an old thermrest?:D I'd give it a try.
daddytwosticks
11-02-2009, 08:32
Have a 2004 model Prolite 3 short. It's been boomproof forever, until this past spring. Stuffed it in my pack pretty hastily one morning on the trail. It was shoved in next to my Ratsack. One of the small bits of steel mesh from the Ratsack poked a hole in the pad. The next night was very cold and hard. Patched it up and is as good as new. I learned my lesson about careful packing. :)
Blue Jay
11-02-2009, 10:48
So, did they sacrafice durability for ultra light? I don't think they sell the smooth fabric mattresses anymore.
Yes, that's what people want now. It's not like we didn't see that coming.
Yep, the good old days when gear never failed.
That is what I miss the most. That and repair shops.
Franco
FamilyGuy
11-02-2009, 18:28
It is a self inflating pad, but it doesn't really self inflate.
Especially when it has holes in it.
Where did you buy it from? You must have contacted Cascade Designs. What did they say?