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ridgewalker777
08-16-2004, 09:12
I know there is some controversy on whether not following every white blaze disqualifies one from the thru-hiker category--but what about the blue blazes leading to shelters? They are often a trail in a "Y" shape, you go one way to get to the shelter and if you are going north you could go another way cutting out some white blazes...Also to be more petty, let's say you come off the trail at a highway and get a ride into town, later getting a ride and let off at the other side of the road thereby missing some of the "connecting" steps. Another violation of thru-hiking requirement?

smokymtnsteve
08-16-2004, 09:17
Only if you suffer from obsessive complusive disorder :banana

Lone Wolf
08-16-2004, 09:25
Depends on how anal you are.

MOWGLI
08-16-2004, 09:53
Always the white blaze? This past weekend after starting at Clingmans Dome, I hiked with some buddies to Camel Gap (just south of Cosby Knob). It was our intent to go all the way via the AT and stop at Mt Cammerer for lunch. Instead, we hiked the Camel Gap Trail to the Low Gap Trail to the Big Creek Trail. Now most thru-hikers will probably never see that part of the park, but I gotta tell ya, it was beautiful. One guy in our party ran into a bear on the Camel Gap Trail.

Having already done all of the AT in the Smokies, I was more interested in seeing some new stuff. Since I have still not been to Mt Cammerer, I have an excuse to go back and hike up there. I'll probably take the Chestnut Branch Trail up to the AT, and follow that to Cammerer. That'll make for nearly a 12 mile day hike.

Speaking of white blazes, a 19 y.o. young man that I hiked with this weekend has now done all of the AT from Springer to Camel Gap. He is going to go back and do the Smokies again in the fall. He expressed interest in hiking the Benton MacKaye Trail in 2006 to get from Springer - Davenport Gap, as he will have already hiked all of the AT between that stretch. I admire his adventurous spirit, and wish more people would follow his lead. If recreation was more dispersed between Springer - Davenport Gap, it would be a positive development for the AT - IMO. It will also help craft your backcountry skills, as there will be only 1 shelter in the 275 mile length of the Benton MacKaye Trail. The Benton MacKaye Trail route through the Smokies is also not a ridge trail. It is a gut buster that goes up & down through a variety of forest ecosystems.

I wonder who the first person will be to take the path less traveled between Springer & Davenport Gap (enroute to Katahdin)? Similarly, who will be the first person to walk the 550 mile figure-8 loop created by the AT and the BMT between Springer & Davenport? The route will be open sometime in 2005. I'll post a notification here when it is complete.

Jeffrey Hunter aka Little Bear

Youngblood
08-16-2004, 10:01
I know there is some controversy on whether not following every white blaze disqualifies one from the thru-hiker category--but what about the blue blazes leading to shelters? They are often a trail in a "Y" shape, you go one way to get to the shelter and if you are going north you could go another way cutting out some white blazes...Also to be more petty, let's say you come off the trail at a highway and get a ride into town, later getting a ride and let off at the other side of the road thereby missing some of the "connecting" steps. Another violation of thru-hiking requirement?

Those are good questions and I don't know for sure how the "universally acknowledged definition of a thru-hike" that some folks mention handles these situations. (And althought I consider myself a former thru-hiker, I can honestly say that I have never seen this definition written down with adequate details. For the most part it seems to be hearsay and a lot of conjecturing.) But I am curious as I figure there are probably more than a dozen times during a day when a thru-hiker leaves the trail for one reason or another and I have a hard time visualizing how one can assure themselves that they hiked the trail in its entirety, with no exceptions... unless they use some sort of marker like golfers do around the green when they 'temporarily remove their ball from play'?

Youngblood

Blue Jay
08-16-2004, 13:31
But I am curious as I figure there are probably more than a dozen times during a day when a thru-hiker leaves the trail for one reason or another and I have a hard time visualizing how one can assure themselves that they hiked the trail in its entirety, with no exceptions... unless they use some sort of marker like golfers do around the green when they 'temporarily remove their ball from play'?

Youngblood

That is a great idea. I know I have spent countless sleepless nights on the trail worrying if I may have left out a few inches here or there. Clearly there are many others who also fear this. May I suggest a large painted rock as a marker. You would'nt be able to use a golf marker as those damn blue blazers would move them to the privy.

Mountain Dew
08-17-2004, 03:25
Ridgewalker777... I'm not sure if you asked a question or gave an opinion with a couple rhetorical questions, but I'll attempt to give you my opinion.

I believe a thruhike is walking past every single white blaze. I base this on the common sense definition of the word "thru" for starters. Also, it is a slippery slope to start missing white blazes and still claim a thru-hike. At what point does that person think enough missed white blazes excludes them from a thru-hiker claim ? The logic that would allow a person to say missing 20 is o.k. dictates that saying 21 missed, 22 missed, 23 missed etc. is also o.k. Before you know it you have fallen to the bottom of the slope. Springer Mountain !

I know my opinion is in the minority on this topic, but so are the people who actually thru-hike. I have a very high standard for things and don't like the watered down version of anything personally. The fact that everybody has their own standards are fine with me as well. As for me....I hiked every white blaze and tons of blue blazes as well. Enough of my opinion I suppose. I hope those with much different opinions can except the fact that we all have different standards and opinions without attacking this post like is the standard towards people who believe as I do. Each to their own right ... or better known as HYOH. :sun

rickb
08-17-2004, 07:27
Bear in mind that by some of your definitions, Earl Shaffer did not thru hike the AT in 1949. On that journey, he failed to take all the the white blazes in Whites. Why? Simply because he failed to have his maps of the area mailed on time.

The ATC saw past this, of course. When Earl wrote the ATC of this fact, he added that he took alternative trails that were just as long. His words, not mine.

What did the ATC do? They interjected common sense, and recognized Earl Shaffer as the firsrt thru hiker, and the first person to become a 2000 Miler in a single trip. The term thru-hiker was not defined on this list, nor by those who have hiked it over and over. Earl was a thru hiker, and so too were the countless number of people who walked all the way from Maine to Georgia over decades. The term has been in common use for a long time.

For a short period in the 1990s, the ATC had a written definition for their 2000 Miler award that would not have accepted Earl Shaffer's remarkable hike (if read legalistically). Wingfoot still publishes this definition in his book, because it was the one he liked best. A few years back, the ATC modified the definition in such a way that EVEN Earl Shaffer qualified as a 2000 Miler in 1949.

Common sense sometimes comes into play in life. It did when the ATC reviewed Earl Shaffer's hike, anyway. Why shouldn't apply to others.

Of course some of us like to pass every blaze anyway. Life is a game, afterall. All things being equal, I think that is a worthy goal. As is walking all the way from Maine to Georgia.

Rick B

shades of blue
08-17-2004, 08:36
L. Wolf and others talk about being anal or compulsive in hiking every white blaze. Yes....I can agree with that to some degree. I think anyone who gets up and hikes through rain, storms, cold, hot weather....day after day has to be a little compulsive it's just a matter of degrees. Personally, on my LDH this summer, I set a standard of hiking every white blaze. I had friends that I met on the trail that would blue blaze or for example hike the parkway in Va instead of the trail. I even helped them figure out how best to get back to the parkway using my maps. For them, it didn't hurt their standards for their hike. For me....I just couldn't do it. That doesn't make me better...or them better. We were just at different places in our lives and hike. Is their hike still a thru-hike? I can't be the judge of that, but if they claim the hike after hiking from GA-MA, I certainly wouldn't blame them. We had different personal standards. I respected theirs, and they respected mine. However, there was one guy in this group that hiked the parkway (avoided a big climb and cut off two or so miles off the journey to that night's shelter) that arived an hour and a half or so before me to the shelter. The shelter was full and camping spots were almost all full. I was looking for a good place to set up my hammock when he commented "if you weren't so slow, you wouldn't have this problem"( by the way, I wasn't whinning at all). Now, I am slow....I admit this...but I had also taken the tougher, longer route. Why did I write this...here is my "moral of the story". I don't judge people for their own standards, as someone once wrote on WB this is recreation, not a competitive sport. I also don't want to be judged because I set a standard for myself to hike every white blaze. This guy judged me because in his eyes, I was stupid to take the longer, more difficult route when there was an easier, faster way. Am I compulsive...yeah, a little...but it's my compulsion, I don't force this on anyone else. Might I miss some beautiful blue blazes...this time around, possibly, but it's my hike. As I let others Hike their own hike, in turn, if I follow the white blazes eventually to Maine, that is my own hike. Anyway, my .02.

Blue Jay
08-17-2004, 09:05
Great post, shadesofblue. Clearly you get it. Ignoring those who try to make you hike their hike, both purists and blue blazers, is an important part of hiking you own hike. The best part was you didn't finish and then say, But.........

The Old Fhart
08-17-2004, 09:23
shadesofblue68-"Am I compulsive...yeah, a little...but it's my compulsion, I don't force this on anyone else. Might I miss some beautiful blue blazes...this time around, possibly, but it's my hike. As I let others Hike their own hike, in turn, if I follow the white blazes eventually to Maine, that is my own hike."
Great post! You can be anal (is anal-retentive hyphenated?) and still have a great time. That was the way I hiked but even then there were a couple of spots other than the Lemon Squeezer where I noticed the A.T. was blazed white in 2 different directions for short distances. I believe that even the purist of the pure can't be absolutely certain that they hiked every inch of the trail. We all did what we felt was proper for our hike-'nuff said.

Lone Wolf
08-17-2004, 09:31
Back in 2000 of the 1600 miles I hiked, all were white blazed. Even I can be anal. Took 9 months though. :)

smokymtnsteve
08-17-2004, 09:35
Back in 2000 of the 1600 miles I hiked, all were white blazed. Even I can be anal. Took 9 months though. :)


wow..why were you in such a Hurrry? :D

MOWGLI
08-17-2004, 10:14
Bravo Shadesofblue! I like your outlook!

I had a similar situation in 2000. I have posted this here already - perhaps more than once - so please forgive my redundancy. A posse of 6-7 hikers sent their fastest guy ahead into Hot Springs, and that guy beat me to Elmers. Although I was only the 2nd thru-hiker (that I know of) in town that morning, the one guy ahead of me booked all the rooms at Elmers. I was pretty ticked, because at that point in my life, I was a vegetarian, and was really looking forward to a good meal at Elmers. I ended up having a nice time at the motel, but I still felt like I had been "had". What ever happened to "first come - first served"? I guess those days are over - especially in the age of the cell phone.

Little Bear

Mountain Dew
08-18-2004, 04:02
Rickboudrie... So the ATC didn't have that same common sense in the 90's ? That somehows faults that argument I believe. :-? I did enjoy reading your post though. It is indeed an interesting debate.

Lone Wolf... So... did you take blue blazes as well ? I'm assuming you took a few of them seeing how you like them so much. Didn't you spend a hella amount of money on that trip as well ? That wasn't a hike ...it was a walking party. Goodtimes !

Lone Wolf
08-18-2004, 05:21
I took the normal blue blazes one would take on a white blaze hike. Into shelters and to views etc. but never an alternate trail. Yup. Spent a buttload of cash.