View Full Version : GSMNP thru hiker definition
I'd like to be clear, as i can not find it on the parks website. To be considered a thru hiker, or someone who is hiking through the park as part of a larger section, one has to begin their hike 50 miles prior, and end 50 miles after the park?
How in gods name are they ever going to know if you're telling the truth? If you have the hiker permit from Fontana or the Hike Inn, or Hot springs, how are they ever going to reallllly know?
Baffling.
Cheers
Lone Wolf
11-02-2009, 22:25
I'd like to be clear, as i can not find it on the parks website. To be considered a thru hiker, or someone who is hiking through the park as part of a larger section, one has to begin their hike 50 miles prior, and end 50 miles after the park?
How in gods name are they ever going to know if you're telling the truth? If you have the hiker permit from Fontana or the Hike Inn, or Hot springs, how are they ever going to reallllly know?
Baffling.
Cheers
"they" don't know. the whole permit system is a joke. always has been
Ashepabst
11-03-2009, 11:05
they'll know because i'm a spy and i told them to be on the lookout for fakie thru hikers from Maine who didn't get their reservations.
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/parkmgmt/upload/09-Compendium.pdf
Rain Man
11-03-2009, 15:18
How in gods name are they ever going to know if you're telling the truth? If you have the hiker permit from Fontana or the Hike Inn, or Hot springs, how are they ever going to reallllly know?
Many things in life are purely on the honor system, so the only thing potentially baffling is one's honor. As the adage goes, "character" is what you do when no one is watching.
Rain:sunMan
.
Many things in life are purely on the honor system, so the only thing potentially baffling is one's honor. As the adage goes, "character" is what you do when no one is watching.
Rain:sunMan
.
I do many things when no one is watching :)
I never said i DID do this, or will. I've always been a thriker by their definition. I was just wondering about how they actually know, or if they ever will. Seems like a lot of wasted resources to me, that's all. Check out Billy Boy Brysons GSMNP stats on tree's, and wildlife that have been destroyed as a direct result of the NPS being incompetent, or letting a crazy philosophy dictate policy. 10,000 people stomping up and down that trail every year have done less damage than the park service did by delibertatley poisoning mountain creeks and streams to kill a pest. In doing so they made a species of fish extinct, one that had not been discovered until they realized they were all now dead. Way to go NPS.
The end.
The smokies are beautiful.
Cheers
Agreed. The NPS is under-funded and, I believe, under-educated on certain parts of the whole GSMNP experience. The vast majority of their time and money is spent in the direction of the automobile tourists rather than the hikers. Of the 9 million visitors a year(3 times the next closet National Park) come to the park, a tiny fraction ever get more than a mile from their car. I believe a new permit system should be drawn up and some tenting regulations relaxed to accomodate hikers. The problem of course is the red tape we have to wade through to get our voices heard at a level that has any meaningful chance of enacting change. Call your congress person, senator, or even write the President. Old ideas and habits die hard so keep trying.
papa john
11-03-2009, 19:11
Rain Man is correct and I don't think he was suggesting that you did or would do this. There are ways for them to suspect that you might not be playing by the rules. If questioned about where you started or where you plan to stop, you might not know about the rules or where the 50 mile boundaries are. Someone starting out at Fontana who is clean as a whistle, clean shaven and being dropped off in a vehicle rather than walking would get someone's radar up. Largely though it is on the honor system and you are likely not to be challenged. I've been through the park several times, have had conversations with a ridge runner and have never been challenged about a permit. I even offered to show him mine and he declined. I have never seen a ranger in the back country and don't know how they would react to an encounter with a hiker.
Doughnut
11-03-2009, 21:02
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/parkmgmt/upload/09-Compendium.pdf
Page 10, defines thru hiker,
Let me guess...........Smell?
A ranger asked to see my permit at the first shelter after shuckstacks. It was in october, cold, raining, and almost dark. He questioned me. I told him i had hiked from Springer, he was suspicious of a hiker wanting to hike north that late in the season but begrudgingly left me alone. He did however pick on two old timers who were tired and couldn't make it to the next shelter. He almost ordered them to do it! I couldn't believe it. Shocking. They asked him how long it would take, he said about an hour....for him. These old boys would have taken 2 and in the dark? He let them off with a good talking to, like a cop letting you off speeding. Very surreal indeed.
I don't have a chip on the old shoulder about that, i am just in wonderment as to how this organization plans to tighten up the screws, in a realistic way, on the permit system.
Cheers
flyingturtle
07-26-2011, 10:15
I am planning on finishing up my 2005 thru hike up north, which consists of me walking about 350 miles. Since I have about 3-4 extra weeks, I want to hike from Hot Springs to Springer before returning home. (I really enjoyed the southern end of the trail.)
My question is - By GSMNP definitition, a thru-hiker starts and finishes their hike 50 miles on each side of the park. The south side is no problem. But Hot Springs is about only about 35 miles north of the park boundary. I know some think that the reservation system is a joke, and maybe it is, but regardless, I don't want to break any rules. Would it be ok to consider myself a thru-hiker starting in Hot Springs, seeing I have already done a significant amount of hiking, or do I need to backtrack 15 miles up the trail to meet the 50 mile requirement? I will do so if I must, but I am not too fond of the idea, honestly.
Blissful
07-26-2011, 11:16
but regardless, I don't want to break any rules.
If you don't want to break rules, as you say...the answer is before you :)
Pedaling Fool
07-26-2011, 11:48
I am planning on finishing up my 2005 thru hike up north, which consists of me walking about 350 miles. Since I have about 3-4 extra weeks, I want to hike from Hot Springs to Springer before returning home. (I really enjoyed the southern end of the trail.)
My question is - By GSMNP definitition, a thru-hiker starts and finishes their hike 50 miles on each side of the park. The south side is no problem. But Hot Springs is about only about 35 miles north of the park boundary. I know some think that the reservation system is a joke, and maybe it is, but regardless, I don't want to break any rules. Would it be ok to consider myself a thru-hiker starting in Hot Springs, seeing I have already done a significant amount of hiking, or do I need to backtrack 15 miles up the trail to meet the 50 mile requirement? I will do so if I must, but I am not too fond of the idea, honestly.
Personally I would just register as a thru-hiker. I know this irks some, but I don't see it in the same light as following rules of a private business/hostel or whatever. But then again I've seen a lot of stupid bureaucratic BS, so maybe I'm a little contaminated in my perceptions.
The simple fact is if you do register as a thru-hiker, than yes you are officially cheating, i.e. breaking the rules. However, I'd be willing to bet that if you present your specific scenario to a park official, most would just say to register as a thru-hiker. But there are always a few "by the book" block-heads:D
HooKooDooKu
09-12-2012, 09:04
So you're wanting to throw out the GSMNP "legal" definition of who is a thru-hiker? Fine, then we need to find an alternate more "common folk" definition and get away from all the legalies of these statements put together by lawyers.
I propose the next best source for a definition of what kind of hiker you are is to look at the Appalchian Trail Conservancy web site for guidance.
The ATC web site (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/thru-section-hiking) has the following statements:
A thru-hiker is a hiker or backpacker who has completed or is attempting to walk the entire Appalachian Trail in one uninterrupted journey.
A section-hiker completes the A.T. in multiple trips over a period of years.
I would interpret those statements to mean that if you are section hiking the A.T., but you're planning to hike all the sections in one year, then you are still a thru-hiker. But if you are section hiking the A.T. over multiple years, you're not a thru-hiker.
(Sounds like the GSMNP legaliese definition is more forgiving)
Ivan...You have to decide how you want to handle that question. Rain Man summed it up back in 09 perfectly.
Many things in life are purely on the honor system, so the only thing potentially baffling is one's honor. As the adage goes, "character" is what you do when no one is watching.
Rain:sunMan
.
Its 50 miles before you enter the park either north or south
jburgasser
09-12-2012, 13:15
Its 50 miles before you enter the park either north or south
The rule states that it is 50 miles north and 50 miles south. Not 'or'.
Ickybod
Stir Fry
09-12-2012, 13:28
I did Springer to Hot Springs several years ago. Called the park and talked to the ranger, told him I was not sure if I could tell the exact date i would arive, but I was only going to Springer. He told me that was close enough to be concidered as a thru-hiker.
Pedaling Fool
09-12-2012, 13:48
Personally I would just register as a thru-hiker. I know this irks some, but I don't see it in the same light as following rules of a private business/hostel or whatever. But then again I've seen a lot of stupid bureaucratic BS, so maybe I'm a little contaminated in my perceptions.
The simple fact is if you do register as a thru-hiker, than yes you are officially cheating, i.e. breaking the rules. However, I'd be willing to bet that if you present your specific scenario to a park official, most would just say to register as a thru-hiker. But there are always a few "by the book" block-heads:D
I did Springer to Hot Springs several years ago. Called the park and talked to the ranger, told him I was not sure if I could tell the exact date i would arive, but I was only going to Springer. He told me that was close enough to be concidered as a thru-hiker.Exactly my point above. Seems some confuse real regulations that have real reason for use than those that are somewhat arbitrarily set up. I wonder how many people on their high horse reguarly go over the speed limit while driving a vehicle in proximity to other people including little children.
"How in gods name are they ever going to know"
The black helicopters follow you, that's how they know.