View Full Version : Fuel canister- how long will it last?
ShelterLeopard
11-05-2009, 00:19
I have a pocketrocket, and I'm trying to figure out how long each size canister of fuel lasts. (On medium or higher heat) I keep trying to time it, but then I forget once and my efforts become useless. So, does anyone know how long each canister will last?
Wise Old Owl
11-05-2009, 00:29
This has been a subject for many a post SL, with many options. At the end of each trip many are left with leaky cylinders or half used containers. Some use a alcohol backup or a second cylinder. I thought about taking a propane temp sticker and cutting it to size. This information comes from practice, I would suggest cooking in the kitchen like I used to do and then you will have an easier time in the field. PS I weight the cylinders and sharpie the weights new & used from a kitchen scale onto the cylinders.
TJ aka Teej
11-05-2009, 00:40
This is where at home practice helps. Start with a new canister, a five-day food bag, and a sharpie. Cook, eat, and make marks on the can - say a W for just boiling water, an M for a meal, etc. You'll find out how long a can lasts *you* that way.
ShelterLeopard
11-05-2009, 00:43
I've been trying to use my pocketrocket a lot at home (I'm used to my whisperlite int'l, and the fuel situation for that was much easier for me to figure out. But I LOVE my pocketrocket and would never go back). I just keep getting all the canisters mixed up. I'll just have to make a clearer system and all- just thought someone on here might know.
(And I was worried about posting something that was on here often before, but I didn't find any of the exact answers I needed when I search the threads. Though honestly, it's probably here somewhere)
Wise Old Owl
11-05-2009, 00:48
Don't worry about it, some of the old threads were confusing.
I don't use that particular stove but , roughly to boil 500ml expect to use about 5 to 7 g of fuel on mild weather on medium setting. About 50% more on high.
Around and just below freezing add about 50% to the above. ( not suited for temps below 26f or thereabout..)
From low to med heat I cannot detect much change in fuel usage (just longer boil times) but it goes up noticeably from med to high.
It also takes more fuel to boil 1 liter than two 500ml lots...
I would suggest making a windscreen for it, something like this :
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00041.html (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00041.html)
or the one here
http://zenstoves.net/Canister.htm (http://zenstoves.net/Canister.htm)
scroll down
and
http://rooinater.blogspot.com/2009/05/myog-canister-stove-windscreen-and-heat.html (http://rooinater.blogspot.com/2009/05/myog-canister-stove-windscreen-and-heat.html)
( note not one that includes the canister!!!!)
Franco
Approx 12 boils for a 4oz canister
Approx 24 boils for an 8 oz canister.
Boils assumes your standard 2 cups for a typical hiker meal.
Obviously wind, temps and other conditions can affect it, but that is a good rule of thumb.
Nothing, however can beat your own personal experience.
ShelterLeopard
11-05-2009, 00:59
Thanks very much Mags- that's pretty much exactly what I was looking for. I'll still run a couple tests myself though. Thanks!
Another 20-30% in fuel can be saved or lost depending on the pot you use. Generally speaking wider and thinner is better. However thin is not good for "cooking" better suited for boiling only. (thin Ti in particular)
Franco
Mrs Baggins
11-05-2009, 06:23
I found that mine (with pocket rocket) lasted 4 days. That's boiling water for 2 cups of coffee every morning and boiling water for a hot meal (like Lipton Sides) every night. I didn't cook anything for breakfast or lunch.
peakbagger
11-05-2009, 08:13
10 days on the standard size cylinder. A "day" would be one boil in the AM for about 2 cups and one evening meal which would be about two cups and three minutes of simmering with a subsequent boil of about a 1/3 cup. With a home made hanging heat shield around the pot and burner head (but not extending down below the burner head), I could get to 14 days. Do note that the performance of the stove in colder temps dropped down substantially as the tank got closer to empty to the point that I could barely get it to boil unless I warmed the tank up with my hands.
bigcranky
11-05-2009, 11:10
Don't crank the burner up all the way -- it just wastes fuel. The tests over at backpackinglight.com found that keeping the output on low-medium was MUCH more efficient and boiled just as quickly.
I find a small canister (~4 ounces of fuel) lasts either a week in the summer, or a long weekend in the winter. That's cooking two hot meals a day for one person in the winter, or one hot meal and coffee in the summer.
SunnyWalker
11-05-2009, 11:14
I have seen some 16 osz cannisters (not MSR). Anyone tried them? They are taller and heavier of course.
skinewmexico
11-05-2009, 11:15
There is a great series of stove tests on BPL.
Approx 12 boils for a 4oz canister
Approx 24 boils for an 8 oz canister.
Boils assumes your standard 2 cups for a typical hiker meal.
Obviously wind, temps and other conditions can affect it, but that is a good rule of thumb.
Nothing, however can beat your own personal experience.
Thank You Thank You Thank You
For a sane realistic uncomplicated answer!
This topic often gets ground up, regurgitated, and spit out over and over again by gear wonks, like myself, who seek to save 2 - 4 ozs.
To each their own, have fun, but hiking doesn't need to be that complicated! - if indeed going backpacking is the ultimate goal!
Thank You Thank You Thank You
For a sane realistic uncomplicated answer!
As an FYI, at one of the links posted earlier, the person at BLP was able to get 27 boils in warm and moderate conditions with a homemade windscreen (8 oz canister) doing all kinds of voodoo with water measurement. :) All the other posts seem to have said the same thing, too.
SOOOOOOOOOOO...
I think my rule of thumb is pretty good for most people in 3-season backpacking.
4oz canister = approx 12 boils
8 oz canister = approx 24 boils
(~2 cups water)
I say boils rather than meals or days because some people make a 2 meals a day, others do one, some people make multiple hot drinks, etc.
You may be able to sneak out another boil or two, but I did give a little fudge factor in because sometimes we crank up the heat a bit, sometimes the wind picks up, etc.
I'm not a very smart guy, I have to KISS. :)
re: 16 oz canisters
Hmm..I never knew they existed until now:
A quick google search turned up these:
http://cotradeco.com/products/791-primus-progas-tri-blend-fuel-225g-8-oz-450g-16-oz
They have the standard Lindal valve so they'll work with MSR/SnoPeak/JetBoil etc. type stoves.
For really long resupplies that could work quite well. Approx 50 boils on one canister. Damn.
(Don't confuse them with these common canisters (http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-2000004124-PefectFlow-1-Burner-Stove/dp/B0009PUR5E/ref=acc_glance_sg_ai_-2_6_img)that are also 16 oz,but are propane and MUCH heavier. I always have one in my truck though. For dirt bag camping at trailheads they can't be beat.... You can find the canisters ANYWHERE. )
Blissful
11-05-2009, 14:53
Smalll canister good for about 7 days roughly with 10 minute cooking each day(personal use). But not all canisters work alike. MSR is the worst, IMO. SNowpeak very good (esp in cold) as is Jetboil. Lasted much longer.
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 17:35
Shelter Leopard:
As usual, Mags pretty well covered things, but a few more comments:
How long a cannister lasts depends on several things......do you cook in the morning, i.e. grits, oatmeal, etc. Or do you just boil water for tea every other morning? Or do you eat cold for breakfast and not cook at all?
Do you plan to eat hot meals during the day, like Ramen or soup for lunch? Most folks eata quick cold lunch, but some folks like hot food, which will obviously eat into their fuel supply.
Lastly, what about dinner? Do you just plan on a quick boiling of water for a rame, quik meal, Mountain House, etc? Or are you planning on cooking real dinners, i.e. your stove will be running for more than three or four minutes at a time?
It'll probably take awhile to figure out how much you're actually going to be cooking, but for most folks, whose use of their cannisters is minimal in the mornings, non-existent at mid-day, and pretty quick at dinner times, I think you'll get the better part of a week out of a small cannister and close to two weeks with a big one.
One tip, whatever you decide to do.....carry some sort of lid for your pot, even if it's just a folded piece of tin foil. It'll help bring your water to a boil faster and will keep your meal warm after the cooking time is done. More important, if you have a lid, you can simply shut off your stove several minutes early, and if you have a lid kept firmly in place, your dinner will continue to cook, water will continue to be absorbed, etc., and by religiously using your lid and not re-opening your pot until your dinner is done, you can get 2-5 minutes more out of your fuel cannister EACH DAY, simply by shutting down your stove several minutes before your dinner is actually ready. If you do this every day, you'll save both fuel and money, and greatly decrease your chances of runnning out of gas in the middle of nowhere.
ShelterLeopard
11-05-2009, 19:07
Don't crank the burner up all the way -- it just wastes fuel. The tests over at backpackinglight.com found that keeping the output on low-medium was MUCH more efficient and boiled just as quickly.
I find a small canister (~4 ounces of fuel) lasts either a week in the summer, or a long weekend in the winter. That's cooking two hot meals a day for one person in the winter, or one hot meal and coffee in the summer.
Good to know cranky- thanks. (I sometimes wondered- it seemed like cranking it up didn't really speed up the process as much as it should've. So I guess it didn't.)
ShelterLeopard
11-05-2009, 19:15
Shelter Leopard:
As usual, Mags pretty well covered things, but a few more comments:
How long a cannister lasts depends on several things......do you cook in the morning, i.e. grits, oatmeal, etc. Or do you just boil water for tea every other morning? Or do you eat cold for breakfast and not cook at all?
Do you plan to eat hot meals during the day, like Ramen or soup for lunch? Most folks eata quick cold lunch, but some folks like hot food, which will obviously eat into their fuel supply.
Lastly, what about dinner? Do you just plan on a quick boiling of water for a rame, quik meal, Mountain House, etc? Or are you planning on cooking real dinners, i.e. your stove will be running for more than three or four minutes at a time?
It'll probably take awhile to figure out how much you're actually going to be cooking, but for most folks, whose use of their cannisters is minimal in the mornings, non-existent at mid-day, and pretty quick at dinner times, I think you'll get the better part of a week out of a small cannister and close to two weeks with a big one.
One tip, whatever you decide to do.....carry some sort of lid for your pot, even if it's just a folded piece of tin foil. It'll help bring your water to a boil faster and will keep your meal warm after the cooking time is done. More important, if you have a lid, you can simply shut off your stove several minutes early, and if you have a lid kept firmly in place, your dinner will continue to cook, water will continue to be absorbed, etc., and by religiously using your lid and not re-opening your pot until your dinner is done, you can get 2-5 minutes more out of your fuel cannister EACH DAY, simply by shutting down your stove several minutes before your dinner is actually ready. If you do this every day, you'll save both fuel and money, and greatly decrease your chances of runnning out of gas in the middle of nowhere.
I usually boil water for drinks in the morning (usually one cup of tea at least), and sometimes I make oatmeal, but not often- usually I don't cook for breakfast, unless it's cold.
Then I make those pasta sides for dinner (Knorr- or Korr?) which usually take about five minutes of cooking after the water boils, but I can get away with cooking it for two or three minutes, then covering it and letting it sit for longer. And at night or on zero days, I drink LOTS of hot things. Tea and cocoa all the time. I was actually thinking of carrying one small canister for food, and one larger one for drinks. But I think I'll just figure it out so I can carry one canister and NOT be left eating dry pasta or bargaining sexual favours for the use of someone else's stove just because I drowned myself in tea.
Many Walks
11-05-2009, 19:24
To keep it simple we just carried a spare. When the main one ran out we'd switch and pick up a new spare in the next town stop. You can spend a lot of time and effort trying to calculate and manage fuel usage, but hiking is more fun without all the worries, IMO. I also agree, a lower flame on a Pocket Rocket is most efficient on our MSR Ti pot. We would run about two weeks or so on a canister for two people boiling 4 cups water at night.
I'd like to go on from something Jack mentioned, and others afterwards. You can extend the life of your fuel bottle/cannister by boiling water only, and small amounts of it. I tried something new when i hiked the long trail a few years ago. I made up my dinners in heavy duty freezer ziplocs, usually just ramen with the flavoring opened into it, maybe some spives, dried veg etc. Also some liptons pasta dinners, anything that i figured might absorb the water but also not take long to "cook". Heat up a cup or two of water, not necessarily boil, then add it the bag. Zip up the bag and let it set for about 10 minutes. Hey presto, a meal with less fuel use and no dishes! (I originally came up with this to avoid doing camp dishes, but it just so happened to save on fuel too). I was worried that the bag might fail, but fingers crossed it hasn't happened to me yet. I trusted it so much that i wrapped my sleeping clothes around it as a cozy (also warming them up). Limiting yourself to the one hot meal, and one or two hot drinks a day will also save, as Jack mentioned.
Just my added two cents on how to make fuel last a little longer, be it alcohol or propane. It's great to see the averages, but making those averages stretch is kind of a cool feat.
Cheers
For the ones not familiar with the concept, here is THE site for "freezer bag" cooking.
http://www.trailcooking.com/ (http://www.trailcooking.com/)
A very similar idea (if you do not mind washing your pot) is to simply remouve the pot from the stove and cover it with spare clothing or some use a "cozy" . Not ideal for bear country..
Franco
XCskiNYC
11-06-2009, 01:51
To keep it simple we just carried a spare. When the main one ran out we'd switch and pick up a new spare in the next town stop. You can spend a lot of time and effort trying to calculate and manage fuel usage, but hiking is more fun without all the worries, IMO. I also agree, a lower flame on a Pocket Rocket is most efficient on our MSR Ti pot. We would run about two weeks or so on a canister for two people boiling 4 cups water at night.
I just started carrying a Pocket Rocket and am doing the same. It'd be nice not to have the extra weight but it's nicer not to worry.
Agreement also on avoiding the high flame. That just shoots heat up around the sides of my pot (Primus Weekender 0.95 liter cookset)
ShelterLeopard
11-10-2009, 12:36
I think I'll probably just carry an extra myself- much rather not stress about saving fuel and end up undercooking things to save it.
On another note:
You'll be amazed how many "half-empty" canisters you'll find in the hiker boxes along the way. Keep your eyes peeled and wait for the love to hit you when you least expect it....
ShelterLeopard
11-10-2009, 13:53
Also- how do you tell how full a canister is? I know some of them have the little colored strip on the side that shows the level if you pour hot water on it (is that accurate? It always seems to be the same level), and I've also heard that if you put the canister in water, it'll float and the water line is where the fuel line is. Any thoughts?
Cookerhiker
11-10-2009, 13:58
Don't crank the burner up all the way -- it just wastes fuel. The tests over at backpackinglight.com found that keeping the output on low-medium was MUCH more efficient and boiled just as quickly. ......
Good to know cranky- thanks. (I sometimes wondered- it seemed like cranking it up didn't really speed up the process as much as it should've. So I guess it didn't.)
Big Cranky, I may have learned something but I want to make sure I understand. My practice with my Coleman Exponent Ultralight is to turn the valve all the way up to a roaring flame to bring water to boil and then turn it down to simmer when the boiling begins. It's obvious that the stove is more fuel-efficient in a slow or simmer mode but are you saying that I should keep a low-medium flame even to bring the water to boil in the first place?
Another factor which I don't believe anyone mentioned (not even Mags the Coloradan) is elevation. I spent 3 weeks in September in Wyoming & Colorado camping at 8-10,000' and found the canister didn't last nearly as long. Don't think this is an issue for the AT.
CrumbSnatcher
11-10-2009, 14:50
On another note:
You'll be amazed how many "half-empty" canisters you'll find in the hiker boxes along the way. Keep your eyes peeled and wait for the love to hit you when you least expect it....
i only cook dinners maybe 4-5 nights a week ocassionally a breakfast or lunch. but only ever bought 1 or two canister's for the entire hike. i would reach a hiker box and replace mine with one in the hiker box that had more fuel in it.
gravityman
11-10-2009, 15:15
Approx 12 boils for a 4oz canister
Approx 24 boils for an 8 oz canister.
Boils assumes your standard 2 cups for a typical hiker meal.
Obviously wind, temps and other conditions can affect it, but that is a good rule of thumb.
Nothing, however can beat your own personal experience.
My experience is ~6 boils for 1L of water on a 4 oz, 10-12 boils with a 8 oz, so interestingly enough, it seems to be dependent on the total number of cups of water you boil, and independent of the number of times you light it. Makes sense.
This is relevant to the people who hike in pairs, obviously...
Gravity (and Danger)
This is relevant to the people who hike in pairs, obviously...
Gravity (and Danger)
Makes sense. If I said ~2 cups of water for a standard hiker meal, then it makes sense a couple uses 2x as much fuel. All the data seems to make my very simple rule of thumb pretty accurate for a solo hiker. :)
As for the altitude factor....
Depends on what you are cooking. And course, high altitude mountaineering is another ball of wax..and well beyond my experience. (13k or so is the highest I've ever camped..barely base camp for many mountaineering people!). At higher altitudes it is of course colder. And that is where alcohol stoves and canister stoves start to show their limitations. Cookie was in Colorado/Wyoming in September...depending what year it was and what part of September, it may have been a bit colder than normal, 3 season backpacking temps (what I call "shoulder season").
But, for most of us (myself included), for three-season backpacking at or below 13k ft...well:
I may joke about gear wonks..but when it comes to raw, highly detailed info you can't beat them:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_faq.html
(Of course, too much info is another problem at times, too! :D)
How Does Altitude Affect Cooking Time and Fuel Consumption?
As you ascend in elevation, atmospheric pressure decreases and water boils at a lower temperature. For every 18 °F drop in the boiling point of water, it doubles the time to cook food. For example, the boiling point of water drops from 212 °F at sea level to 194 °F at 10,000 feet. It takes twice as long to cook raw food at 10,000 feet than it does at sea level. So, if you are planning to cook raw food at higher elevations, be sure to bring extra fuel. For boiling water and rehydrating foods, altitude doesn't make much difference. It actually takes a little less time and fuel to boil water (since it boils at a lower temperature), but rehydration will take a little longer, which balances it out.
TO SUM IT UP FOR MAGS' SIMPLE MIND: If you are cooking elaborate meals at elevation, yeah..you use more fuel. If you are boiling 2 cups of water for three season backpacking..you do not use more fuel overall.
ShelterLeopard
11-13-2009, 12:04
So what, in everyone's opinion is the best fuel canister? I've heard more than one vote for the snowpeak... How 'bout brunton?