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Guy
11-05-2009, 15:00
This is a question for the PCT veterans. How cold was the coldest temp that you experienced on your thru-hike?

I'm finding that most of the advice that I read is that it gets COLD on the PCT.

Having grown up in Minnesota, and lived for 15 years in California, I can tell you that standards for what is and isn't cold is different from place to place.

My personal threshold for what is cold is 0 degrees Fahrenheit. Is subzero temps something that can be expected? I've got a lot of backcountry experience in cold weather, but none at high elevations. How does altitude change the equation?

Thanks!

garlic08
11-05-2009, 15:56
The PCT during normal NOBO thru hiking season really isn't all that cold. You start in the desert in late April, you're in the high Sierra in June, and in the North Cascades in September. Not exactly extreme. The lowest temp I experienced was in the high Sierra, maybe high teens F. That was no problem because it was mostly dry. The coldest I got to hypothermia was in several days of heavy rain in Washington, though the temps were in the low 40s. Most hikers do very well with a 20F down bag the whole way and very little extra warm clothing.

Altitudes along the PCT don't affect the way you feel temperature too much, as long as you eat and hydrate well and are generally healthy, which is pretty much assumed if you've walked far enough to get into those altitudes. You hike above 13,000' once and 12,000' several times, and it's easy enough to sleep at 9 to 10,000'. And you don't get there all at once from sea level. There's a long steady climb from the desert.

Guy
11-05-2009, 16:12
Awesome! That's exactly what I wanted to hear. That gives me a lot of confidence that I can deal with this. Well... As far as temperature goes, at any rate...

royalusa
11-05-2009, 20:11
Garlic, can you shed some more light on what evening temps to expect outside the Sierras on a "normal" NOBO season.

Dogwood
11-05-2009, 21:21
The lowest temp I experienced was in the high Sierra, maybe high teens F.

Most hikers do very well with a 20F(maybe 25F) down bag the whole way....

DITTO

No subzero temps during typical PCT thru-hiking season from late Mar-early Apr. to mid Oct. going NOBO.

The notable exception is when it gets windy and you're wet! It doesn't always have to be cold in temp. for you to feel cold! Fortunately it doesn't USUALLY rain that often on a PCT thru-hike, but that doesn't mean you can't get wet - think stream crossings, snow travel, and, yes, the rare but still possible rain!

Another thing is that the PCT even in southern Cali. has 10,000 ft + mountains that rather suddenly arise that you climb over just when you've become accustomed to lower elev and warmer weather hiking. This occurs at Mt San Jacinto and Baden-Powell. If you are heading NOBO starting during typical thru-hiker season you are very likely going to see some snow/ice on the ground and definitely experience colder temps. on these tops. For every 1000 ft rise in elev the rule is that it gets about 3F colder. Takes some hikers by surprise if and when they get caught camping at these higher elevs.!

And, snow and sleet can start falling, and so can the temps, in northern WA at anytime in Oct. Happened to some of my buddies on the PCT this yr.

Chance09
11-05-2009, 21:52
think a 35 degree bag with a liner and bivy would be ok?

TwoForty
11-05-2009, 22:29
A 35 degree Slumberjack or a 35 degree Western Mountaineering? My point being that it's subjective.

I'll put it this way: you'll wake up to frost quite a bit and it can snow through out most of the trail.

I remember trying to sleep when it was 85 degrees at midnight. It snowed two days later.

Dogwood
11-06-2009, 00:11
I did exactly that Chance09 - new 35* WM Highlite, Cocoon liner, and MLD Momentum bivy w/ oversized Spinnaker tarp(set the tarp up about 1/2 dozen times the whole trip because of weather). With Apr 12 NOBO start was OK most nights in SoCal w/ sleeping layers but more than a few nights was downright COLD. If I had gotten caught atop Mt San Jacinto or more than 1 night on Baden Powell it would have been rough w/ my set-up. With my start date and that set-up no way would I have attempted to make it through the Sierras. At Kennedy Meadows I gladly and necessarily switched to a warmer sleeping bag and took some more layers.

With an accurately rated 35* bag, being a warm sleeper, wearing additional sleeping layers, and inside an enclosed shelter you would still be pushing the envelope at times, IMO.

garlic08
11-06-2009, 00:46
Garlic, can you shed some more light on what evening temps to expect outside the Sierras on a "normal" NOBO season.

Outside the high Sierra, I remember mostly pleasant temps and dry weather, with the exception of a notable multi-day August rainstorm in WA. I finished in early September, so there was no real frost even up north. October would definitely be a different story. Sometimes wind was a bigger factor than temperature, especially in the desert.

No way would I head into the Sierra in June with a 35F bag and liner. I had the cheap 20F Campmor bag and it was marginal for quite a few nights in a row. I don't remember ever wanting to get a higher temp bag in the warmer months, like I did on the AT.


Another thing is that the PCT even in southern Cali. has 10,000 ft + mountains that rather suddenly arise that you climb over just when you've become accustomed to lower elev and warmer weather hiking. This occurs at Mt San Jacinto and Baden-Powell.

Oh yeah, I forgot about them. I was living at 7,500' in Colorado right before the hike, so I was still acclimated and didn't notice. So take my comments about altitude with a grain of salt.

sbhikes
11-06-2009, 01:05
Don't forget that you can increase your nighttime temperatures with good campsite selection. Sometimes I would leave my comfy campsite midway on a descent only to find a whole bunch of people sleeping in a frost-coated meadow. I swear it would be 20 degrees colder than where I had camped.

I think the coldest place was at Lake Morena at the kickoff last year. Man that was really cold!

frisbeefreek
11-06-2009, 10:00
Ditto above. A 35F bag might be pushing it (I carried a 28F bag), but it depends on what clothing you have available to sleep in. I ran into mid-20's this year and was glad I could sleep in my puff jacket. The one time I got really cold was due to poor campsite selection - I was probably the person sbhikes passed that was in the frosty meadow.

Picture from that night (note that everything was in my Rainbow tent)

http://picasaweb.google.com/sawyervillers/PacificCrestTrail2009#5382283800858196098

burger
11-06-2009, 11:36
I think you could easily hike the PCT with a 35F bag, but you need to know what you're doing. I used a 32F Western Mountaineering Summerlite the whole way on my thru, and I had maybe 5 cold nights the whole trip (and 2 of those were at the kickoff!). Those nights were just uncomfortable--I wasn't close to hypothermia.

You can extend your bag's temperature rating by using a bivy, tarp/tent, and warm clothing. Picking a good campsite is another way to sleep warmer but seems to be neglected by a lot of hikers. If you know it's going to be cold, try to sleep under trees and avoid valley bottoms and high elevations.

Dogwood
11-06-2009, 14:09
Not that it absolutely can't be done, but I couldn't thru-hike the PCT with just a 35* sleeping bag with my set-up and start date in 08 if I was actually planning on consistently getting a good night's sleep. If someone else can great! I wish them well and lots of warmth!
With an accurately rated 35* bag, being a warm sleeper, wearing additional sleeping layers, and inside an enclosed shelter you would still be pushing the envelope at times, IMO.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/report.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/report.php?p=916165)
With an accurately rated 35* bag, being a warm sleeper, wearing additional sleeping layers, and inside an enclosed shelter you would still be pushing the envelope at times, IMO.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/report.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/report.php?p=916165)

With an accurately rated 35* bag, being a warm sleeper, wearing additional sleeping layers, and inside an enclosed shelter you would still be pushing the envelope at times, IMO.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/report.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/report.php?p=916165)
With an accurately rated 35* bag, being a warm sleeper, wearing additional sleeping layers, and inside an enclosed shelter you would still be pushing the envelope at times, IMO.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/report.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/report.php?p=916165)
I'm an UL long distance hiker who is constantly pushing the envelope. I knew someone likeminded would bring up lots of if's, and's, and buts. That's why I included this statement: with an accurately rated 35* bag, being a warm sleeper, wearing additional sleeping layers, and inside an enclosed shelter you would still be pushing the envelope at times, IMO. I failed to include in that statement that even with good campsite selection(which I attempted as often as possible) I still felt like I was pushing the envelope at times with my set-up.
With an accurately rated 35* bag, being a warm sleeper, wearing additional sleeping layers, and inside an enclosed shelter you would still be pushing the envelope at times, IMO.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/report.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/report.php?p=916165)

If you know it's going to be cold, try to sleep under trees and avoid valley bottoms and high elevations. This is an accurate statement, but at times you don't have trees to sleep under, you are in long valley bottoms you get caught in, and you can't always avoid sleeping at high elevs.

I think you could easily hike the PCT with a 35F bag, but you need to know what you're doing... I thought I knew what I was doing. Perhaps, I was wrong?

Jester2000
11-06-2009, 16:01
I wouldn't use a 35 degree bag on the PCT. Aside from the Sierra, it gets very cold in the desert at night, a harsh lesson learned by a few PCT hikers in '08 who had to pick up warmer bags after a number of sleepless nights.

Dogwood
11-06-2009, 16:07
I apologize for all the duplicate statements. Didn't mean to do that. Don't even know how I did it!

Jester2000
11-06-2009, 16:27
It was worth saying four times.

Wheeler
11-07-2009, 09:41
I used a Montbell 25* bag, and it was the right bag i think. It got a little cold a few times,however I used it as a quilt for half the time too. I didn't have the option of switching out bags, so that worked for me.

sarbar
11-09-2009, 01:24
In all honesty I think what sucks more than just 'cold' is cold with rain + wind! That just seems to suck the warmth out of your bones and leaves you with so little enthusiasm. In summer on the PCT you rarely see extreme cold but OTOH, a week of socked in nonstop rain/chilling wind up high is horrid. Reading journals this one always pops up - at some point your rain gear will stop working - it can't dry out. And you become miserable. Long enough in it and you can discover hypothermia :( Especially if you are finishing Washington in late September or October when the hours of daylight are less and the weather more fickle.

Tipi Walter
11-09-2009, 01:43
All this reminds me of a trail journal I took out on my last trip by SoloGirl on the PCT(Postholer.com). I think we talked about it earlier here on Whiteblaze. Short version: She went UL with a 19lb kit and ended up in a collapsed tarp at around 9,500 feet with a wet Bic lighter and dipping temps with snow. It's an interesting story and one I've sort of studied in some detail because it was all I had to read for a couple weeks in my own snowstorm and in my own tent but here in the southeast.

Anyway, she carried a SPOT and ended up hitting 911 on the thing but made it thru the night on a cold Ridgerest and survived. I wonder if the Inyo sheriff's department sent her a bill?

Briefly, this was her kit:
Gossamer Gear Mariposa pack 18oz
Mt laurel Designs Soul bivy sac 8.3oz
Integral Design Siltarp 5x8 70z.
Nunatak Catabatic SL sleeping bag, rated 20F, 800fill, no zipper but has hood(no down fill on the bottom of the bag), 14.1oz
Thermarest 3/4 Ridgerest.

HER HIKING DILEMMA EXPOUNDED, and I quote:
"The dilemma is knowing when the rain/snow is transitory enough to walk through and when it's severe enough to hunker down, make camp and stay warm. If a hiker "walks through" a rain that they think is going to stop after 1/2 hour then they can just keep on walking and eventually dry out. But if it's going to last longer, then the hiker is wet and cold by the time they make camp and that's not a good situation. Sometimes it's hard to know if something is going to blow over and when something is here to stay. I started hiking again after my nap and it was still hailing and snowing." SOLOGIRL

She kept hiking past the "warm body" point and then she had this to say:

"I knew that as soon as I stop hiking I should get out of my wet clothes or I'll get super chilled, but here's my question: if I get out of my wet clothes and put on my dry clothes, then how do I keep my dry clothes dry as I take the time to make camp?" SOLOGIRL.

My answer, of course, would be to get to camp wet and cold, throw off the pack and set up the shelter first thing and leave your wet clothes on. The most important thing is to have a shelter up where you can go to change. You'll be shivering like a hoplite facing the mongol hordes but get the shelter up fast and then worry about putting on the dry stuff.

With frozen hands she couldn't get the tarp tied up and it collapsed, so she crawled under it, hit 911, etc etc. The panic button.

It's a good story and a cautionary tale.

double d
11-09-2009, 02:32
Tipi Walter, thanks for sharing your interesting story, she thought she was going to be "okay", but she wasn't. Certainly she learned some wisdom from her experiences, I hope she applies them on her next hike.

sbhikes
11-09-2009, 10:53
I sometimes wonder if people make better decisions when they don't have a panic button. I mean, if you know you can't make contact with the outside world, do you think of more plan Bs? I don't want to blame the SPOT or whatever, but I traveled alone and all the time I would be thinking about plan B. And sometimes when I got into a situation I did not like, I would actually sit down (if sitting down didn't risk my life) for a minute and think it through. So I wonder if maybe if she had thought it through, tried to answer her own question of how to stay dry, if she would have figure it out. I think her kit could have worked fine to keep her alive, if not completely comfortable (no down at the bottom of the bag? Sounds like cold feet to me.)

Tipi Walter
11-09-2009, 12:02
Tipi Walter, thanks for sharing your interesting story, she thought she was going to be "okay", but she wasn't. Certainly she learned some wisdom from her experiences, I hope she applies them on her next hike.

She ended her trip with these interesting quotes:

Day 74: "I'm not a hiker. I've determined that for sure--this is just not my cup of tea."

Day 101: "I'm just not happy out here, I mean, most of the time, I'm actually pretty miserable."

Tipi Walter
11-09-2009, 12:07
I sometimes wonder if people make better decisions when they don't have a panic button. I mean, if you know you can't make contact with the outside world, do you think of more plan Bs? I don't want to blame the SPOT or whatever, but I traveled alone and all the time I would be thinking about plan B. And sometimes when I got into a situation I did not like, I would actually sit down (if sitting down didn't risk my life) for a minute and think it through. So I wonder if maybe if she had thought it through, tried to answer her own question of how to stay dry, if she would have figure it out. I think her kit could have worked fine to keep her alive, if not completely comfortable (no down at the bottom of the bag? Sounds like cold feet to me.)

It's a sad story, really, as once she hit HELP and then 911 her brother and her Dad got emergency plane tickets and flew out to California and did god knows what else to arrive at a motel close to her location. The Inyo police were notified and all the rest. For me, the moral of the story is: NEVER, EVER, CARRY A SPOT!!

ShelterLeopard
11-09-2009, 12:37
SPOT= terrible idea and waste of money. If you don't know what you're doing, you need to figure it out before hitting the trail.

Guy
11-09-2009, 12:49
I was thinking of getting a SPOT device for my PCT thru hike, but I'm starting to lean away from it now. Mainly because I don't want to carry something that I'm not going to use, but also it strikes me as something that gives people over-confidence and allows them to think that they can rely on some external force to rescue them.

The only defense that I can provide for Sologirl is that bad judgment is a symptom of hypothermia.

Tipi Walter
11-09-2009, 13:03
If you could define "Backpacking", it could be done with these two words: Managing discomfort. I think most of us have slept cold and wet and got to a campsite shivering like a hittite on horseback but we chalked it up to being outdoors. Par for the course. We learned over time or just quit going out, and we never carried anything like a SPOT.

Cold, wet, bug eaten, too hot, sweaty, wind-whipped, lightning-cowered, blizzard-engulfed: who hasn't hugged up to Miss Nature and got bruised? Had SoloGirl not carried a SPOT, she would've survived the night tossing and turning like we've all done and woke up to a new sunny day ready to hike. The slow transformation of the Newb caterpillar into the educated butterfly, welcome to Ridgetop College and a slow metamorphosis.

Mags
11-09-2009, 14:09
Experience is an excellent teacher..but the tuition is high. :)


(God knows I've paid many tuition fees to the Outdoor School of Hard Knocks over the years. :D)

Dogwood
11-09-2009, 14:38
If you could define "Backpacking", it could be done with these two words: Managing discomfort. I think most of us have slept cold and wet and got to a campsite shivering like a hittite on horseback but we chalked it up to being outdoors. Par for the course. We learned over time or just quit going out, and we never carried anything like a SPOT.

Cold, wet, bug eaten, too hot, sweaty, wind-whipped, lightning-cowered, blizzard-engulfed: who hasn't hugged up to Miss Nature and got bruised? .... The slow transformation of the Newb caterpillar into the educated butterfly, welcome to Ridgetop College and a slow metamorphosis.

Tipi Walter, that was downright poetic and entertaining! Humm, backpacking is about Managing Discomfort. Never thought about it just like that. Especially enjoyed the Hittite on horseback, hugging up to Miss Nature, and Ridgetop College phrases. And, always enjoyed trying to clearly say the word metamorphosis.

Tipi Walter
11-09-2009, 19:48
Had to google it to spell it righte.

TwoForty
11-09-2009, 20:27
Oh lord, now you've done it. You mentioned the spot. Might as well invite the PCT-L people over :D

frisbeefreek
11-10-2009, 00:53
Yeah, mention spot, and you start a inferno bigger than the Station Fire.

Maybe the spot needs another button. It could have a little icicle on it and send a message to your family that says "I'm cold send hot chocolate"

Tipi Walter
11-10-2009, 09:31
I came up with a new handheld system called the PONDs, Pinpoint Onboard Napalm Delivery system, with the "Burnt Ash" option button. Backpackers who carry it will always remember what the Immolate Now button means and the incoming pinpoint napalm if they push it. Keeps newbs on their toes and experts humbled.

Gray Blazer
11-10-2009, 09:52
I came up with a new handheld system called the PONDs, Pinpoint Onboard Napalm Delivery system, with the "Burnt Ash" option button. Backpackers who carry it will always remember what the Immolate Now button means and the incoming pinpoint napalm if they push it. Keeps newbs on their toes and experts humbled.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

Tipi Walter
11-10-2009, 10:05
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

A lost backpacker gets both, the wonderful smell of napalm in the morning, and terminally rescued.

skinewmexico
11-10-2009, 11:33
If you could define "Backpacking", it could be done with these two words: Managing discomfort.

That is about the most perfect description I've ever seen, and I'll be stealing your phrase. I'll just make sure not to use it on the Boy Scouts we're trying to peel away from an X-Box, and their mommas.

garlic08
11-10-2009, 11:57
I came up with a new handheld system called the PONDs, Pinpoint Onboard Napalm Delivery system, with the "Burnt Ash" option button. Backpackers who carry it will always remember what the Immolate Now button means and the incoming pinpoint napalm if they push it. Keeps newbs on their toes and experts humbled.

Love it. Just like getting rid of seat belts and replacing the driver's side air bag with an 8" spike would make people drive much more carefully.:eek: Where is this thread going to end up?

sbhikes
11-10-2009, 22:22
Yeah, mention spot, and you start a inferno bigger than the Station Fire.

Maybe the spot needs another button. It could have a little icicle on it and send a message to your family that says "I'm cold send hot chocolate"

Make one with a button that says "I'm broke, send money" and I'm in.

Managing discomfort. Perfect. That's what it is. That and managing anxiety.

I tried to share a similar sentiment on the PCT-L and was called an idiot. No! They argue. It's DANGEROUS out there. Death and destruction around every corner. :rolleyes:

sarbar
11-11-2009, 12:21
It is called "Sucking it up". :D :P

Snowleopard
11-11-2009, 20:35
I read the journal by sologirl. My take on what happened to her is hypothermia. She needed to take action sooner to keep warm. I don't think using the Spot to call for rescue was a mistake. As it turns out, she needed an "I'm OK now." button.

The main lesson to take from this is you need to bring enough warm clothes to keep warm in the wet and cold. Dry and cold is a lot easier.

I recommend reading Old Fhart's hypothermia article, http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=96956&postcount=24

weary
11-11-2009, 22:14
All this reminds me of a trail journal I took out on my last trip by SoloGirl on the PCT(Postholer.com). I think we talked about it earlier here on Whiteblaze. Short version: She went UL with a 19lb kit and ended up in a collapsed tarp at around 9,500 feet with a wet Bic lighter and dipping temps with snow. It's an interesting story and one I've sort of studied in some detail because it was all I had to read for a couple weeks in my own snowstorm and in my own tent but here in the southeast.

Anyway, she carried a SPOT and ended up hitting 911 on the thing but made it thru the night on a cold Ridgerest and survived. I wonder if the Inyo sheriff's department sent her a bill?

Briefly, this was her kit:
Gossamer Gear Mariposa pack 18oz
Mt laurel Designs Soul bivy sac 8.3oz
Integral Design Siltarp 5x8 70z.
Nunatak Catabatic SL sleeping bag, rated 20F, 800fill, no zipper but has hood(no down fill on the bottom of the bag), 14.1oz
Thermarest 3/4 Ridgerest.

HER HIKING DILEMMA EXPOUNDED, and I quote:
"The dilemma is knowing when the rain/snow is transitory enough to walk through and when it's severe enough to hunker down, make camp and stay warm. If a hiker "walks through" a rain that they think is going to stop after 1/2 hour then they can just keep on walking and eventually dry out. But if it's going to last longer, then the hiker is wet and cold by the time they make camp and that's not a good situation. Sometimes it's hard to know if something is going to blow over and when something is here to stay. I started hiking again after my nap and it was still hailing and snowing." SOLOGIRL

She kept hiking past the "warm body" point and then she had this to say:

"I knew that as soon as I stop hiking I should get out of my wet clothes or I'll get super chilled, but here's my question: if I get out of my wet clothes and put on my dry clothes, then how do I keep my dry clothes dry as I take the time to make camp?" SOLOGIRL.

My answer, of course, would be to get to camp wet and cold, throw off the pack and set up the shelter first thing and leave your wet clothes on. The most important thing is to have a shelter up where you can go to change. You'll be shivering like a hoplite facing the mongol hordes but get the shelter up fast and then worry about putting on the dry stuff.

With frozen hands she couldn't get the tarp tied up and it collapsed, so she crawled under it, hit 911, etc etc. The panic button.

It's a good story and a cautionary tale.
Many thanks Tipi. A great story.

I haven't hiked enough in the west to make a comment, but I started the AT in Georgia in mid April with a 40+ degree down bag. I'd had minimal high mountain experience south of Maine. I guessed Georgia in April would be a bit like January in Miami, Florida. It wasn't. It was many degrees colder.

But I carried the same 40 degree + sleeping bag liner north to Katahdin and my summit on Oct. 16.

I had a few chilly nights early and late, but nothing serious. The bag was 20 years old at the time -- now 40. But it still serves in Maine from April to November, augmented by a down jacket, dry wool socks and sometimes whatever spare clothing I'm carrying...

Weary

oso loco
11-17-2009, 22:25
Two comments -
1. "Managing discomfort" means "lowering your comfort level". That's been true for me ever since my first back pack trip in 1952. I suspect it was true for Earl Shaffer, Gene Espy, MacKaye and others before them.

2. Re: the PCT - only spent a month out there in May/June, but the temps were at least 10 deg cooler in the desert than they were 9 years ago. It also rained more - a LOT more - than 9 years ago. I'm plannning on it being even cooler next year.

Miner
11-26-2009, 19:05
The coldest weather I encountered this year on the trail was Northern Washington where it dipped into the 20's several times the last 1.5weeks on the trail (it really depends on how late in the year you are finishing though - I finished Oct.2). I had below freezing temperatures a several times on passes in the High Sierra and in SoCal. Most of the time it was 40's - 50's with 2 or 3 nights were it was too hot to sleep in your bag.

Meta
11-27-2009, 20:23
In 2008 I listened to common wisdom and used a 20 degree bag and it was overkill. But I hiked the PCT in 2009 with a 32 degree western mountaineering summerlite with no liner and no additional special clothes and was perfectly happy with it. I am an uncommonly warm sleeper, granted, but that given I would say with a liner and/or extra insulating clothing you could easily do a 35 degree bag the whole way. I think the coldest temps I encountered in 2009 were around 20 degrees at crabtree meadows (during a series of daily snowstorms that had been going on for a week and continued to occur for another 10 days or so). It sounds to me like your strategy would be fine.

As far as the sologirl story goes, I was with her at Kennedy Meadows and she left a day in front of me. In sandals. Into known bad weather. Alone (at least, not with a tight group agreeing to stay together -- there were a couple other people who left at similar times). These are all classic mistakes. With the gear she had (which plenty of people in the immediate area had and used successfully in the SAME weather, excluding the sandals of course) she would've been fine had she stuck with other hikers or waited out the weather. Or, as she says, if she had set up earlier in a more protected spot, before she reached hypothermia danger. I know a group of hikers who were out in a worse storm (well, the same one, but at higher elevation) who found shelter under a tree to stay warm and started a fire and were fine. And others who actually stayed in a cave so they didn't have to deal with tarpts and tents.

I was also out in this same storm, although much lower in elevation and apparently in the rainshadow of a mountain because we only got a fraction of an inch that night. The sierras are funny like that, you never know exactly how a storm or predicted weather will actually play out for your exact location.

At any rate, don't let the storms from 2009 scare you away from using an ultralight shelter or cooler-rated sleeping bag. Plenty of people were there at the same time as Kat/sologirl/censored with the same kind of gear and were fine.