View Full Version : Surveilance on trails
Now that weak minded politicians have ushered in the age of government video surveilance (red light cameras) and for-profit-corporate law enforcement do you think we will ever live to see surveilance on the trail? Like at shelters or trailheads, maybe. Ridge runners replaced by cameras and facial recognition software - your next mail drop has a ticket attached to it for stealth camping in the Smokies. Or a pic of you putting un-eaten ramen in the privy. Or maybe a video of you washing your nasty hiney in the creek.
What else could they catch a hiker doing?
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2009, 16:01
I don't think this is an issue that needs to be worried about on the A.T. and what's more, I don't think blatantly political threqads such as this belong here.
Jim Adams
11-08-2009, 16:05
The Government can't afford to employ and maintain the parks that it has and you think they'll go to the expense of video?
geek
Pacific Tortuga
11-08-2009, 16:08
Don't worry, be careful. Do not use ANY electronics, cash only, no toll roads and no pictures.
Act as if you are in a, witness protection program.
Don't hang with Jack, bet the dems are following him. :)
garlic08
11-08-2009, 16:17
Don't worry, be careful. Do not use ANY electronics, cash only, no toll roads and no pictures.
Act as if you are in a, witness protection program.
Don't hang with Jack, bet the dems are following him. :)
And I've seen enough television and movies to know that "they" (those who are out to get you :eek:) can track exactly where you are through your cell phone. And you should quit using the internet, too.
The link below shows a few surveillance photos that the authorities have released to the public.
I understand the more racy ones have been used extort hefty donations to a major Trail organization under a secret fund raising initiative.
http://loudounextra.washingtonpost.com/photos/galleries/2007/nov/12/appalachian-trail-animals/
Slo-go'en
11-08-2009, 16:40
I've often thought it would be fun to place a bunch of those motion sensitive game camaras along the trail to take pictures of hikers (and other critters who use the AT super highway thru the woods). Say, one near Springer, then at each state line crossing. Would be a good way to get a reasonably accurate count of how many hikers really do make it all the way or how far they really got.
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2009, 16:46
Happily, actual surveillance on or near Trails is a very rare thing.
However, it does happen.......
http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=280388 :eek::eek::eek:
shelterbuilder
11-08-2009, 18:03
Happily, actual surveillance on or near Trails is a very rare thing.
However, it does happen.......
http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=280388 :eek::eek::eek:
Wow - there are all kinds of strange folk in the woods....
And while there ARE surveillence cameras that can be "borrowed" from the "powers-that-be" for use in solving specific crimes in specific areas, I don't - thankfully - forsee Big Brother installing cameras as a matter of course.
Ideas like this may seem great to certain LEO-types, but are, in reality, cost-prohibitive in the real world. The incidence of crime (of ANY kind) on the AT is simply not high enough to justify that kind of financial outlay.
Besides, pit toilets are being phased out for this very reason....:eek::eek::eek:
threqads
What is a treqads?
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2009, 19:03
Um, I haven't a clue as to what you're talking about.
Happily, actual surveillance on or near Trails is a very rare thing.
However, it does happen.......
http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=280388 :eek::eek::eek:
Wow, I always just looked for black widow spiders!
He's referring to post #2 Jack, you did a typo when you meant threads.
Um, I haven't a clue as to what you're talking about.
I do and it doesn't matter if you can edit. You did type threads and I'll vouch.
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2009, 19:23
Um, I STILL don't know what the hell you're talking about, Emerald.
You just injest a bad ice cube or something? Go lie down.
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2009, 19:25
Oh, now I get it. :D I was mystified for awhile.
Thans for the spellcheck there, Emerald. Glad you're aboard.
Got anything else to do this evening?
Pacific Tortuga
11-08-2009, 19:25
[wquote=Jack Tarlin blatantly political threqads such as this belong here.[/quote]
There, no big deal.
Thanks for the spellcheck there, Emerald. Glad you're aboard.
Got anything else to do this evening?
Actually, I do have a PM to write, but that's about all I had in mind.
WalkingStick75
11-08-2009, 19:35
Google Earth is old military technology that was released to the public so using that as a base line how good are the satellite images that they are using? Use a cell phone, purchases on credit cards, video at the local store. Not to mention all the video mounted to buss's, private transportation companies, police, fire, EMS.
Not worried about it myself.
Blissful
11-08-2009, 21:07
There's surveillance on the trail - people - i.e. ridge runners...
I've seen many
MintakaCat
11-08-2009, 22:35
The government uses this device along borders for surveilance. The technology already exsist.
http://www.buckeyecam.com
US Government met with some resistance from Canadians this past summer when they were testing a surveillance Balloon over Port Huron. No reason they couldn't expand this idea to the trail.
http://www.canada.com/technology/Residents+expected+moon+surveillance/1897434/story.html
I saw a show a while back that showed them useing ground sensors on the Long Trail near Canada. This was to stop contraband from being carried in. They knew how many were coming down the trail and met them at road crossings "if" they wanted to check them. So, since 911, I bet it happens more than we think. Especially near our countries border.
They are not surveillance cameras. They are hiker traffic monitoring devices used to efficiently manage hiking permit and shelter quotas for the benefit of all tax payers!
Uncle Sam doesn't spy on U.S. citizens! That's crazy and paranoid sounding.
They are not surveillance cameras. They are hiker traffic monitoring devices used to efficiently manage hiking permit and shelter quotas for the benefit of all tax payers!
Uncle Sam doesn't spy on U.S. citizens! That's crazy and paranoid sounding.
Yeah right, tell that to all the folks on the surveillance cameras. My small town (less than 2200) has several cameras watching the downtown area 24/7.
DirtBagger
11-09-2009, 07:54
That is why you are not a millionaire. You are not optomistic. Your thinking is not creative.
Find a little profit through cameras on trails... and they will come.
Law enforcement for profit. They call running a red light - civil disobedience - in my state. That is how they were able to skirt the real law that says traffic violations have to be reported to the state.
Basically all they have to do is find profit in placing a camera somewhere and they will eventually do it.
They cannot afford to police backcountry because they are not using camera technology.
Maybe one-day when you get your permit they will also scan your photo into facial recog software at the same time.
Corporate law enforcement is a bad thing to let happen. It could end up on the trail.
Usher in the age of government surveilance - we are the generation that allowed it to happen. Our legacy.
One town in Texas did vote those nasty cameras out -
There is one place along the A.T, that i know of, where you are on film, or will most likely be on film. The observatory on top of Mt.Washington. I have some stills of me taken from the observation deck cam (after making a quick phone call home to say where i was). Anyone else here done that?
Here's the link http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/cam/deck/
Cheers
They are not surveillance cameras. They are hiker traffic monitoring devices used to efficiently manage hiking permit and shelter quotas for the benefit of all tax payers!
Uncle Sam doesn't spy on U.S. citizens! That's crazy and paranoid sounding.
Will speed hikers be subject to tickets and fines?
Gray Blazer
11-09-2009, 08:48
Don't ever do anything you would be ashamed of if you got caught (or surveilanced).
Can't anyone set up a camera in the woods or public places? Maybe you need some kind of permit in some places, but there must be lots of places you don't???? Don't lots of private parties do this for nature observation, educational projects commercial purposes, etc.???
Does the context of this post remind you of anything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtepuyvsGbg
Does the context of this post remind you of anything
yeah... this:
http://www.nouvelordremondial.cc/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/its-a-conspiracy.jpg
That guy with the foil helmet looks like a darn fool. The helmet is all wrong. Wrong shape, wrong size and missing the brass deflectors.
This is starting to get off topic from hiking, but there is a huge amount of surveillance all around us already! Surveillance is about obtaining information. However, those who seek to gather this info don't like to usually refer to it out in the open as surveillance. Nevertheless, it definitely involves obtaining info, often from those who don't know the extent that it occurs. and controlling the flow of that info. If one has privy to info that others don't generally have, and you or your group can control or utilize the flow of info, you wield a great power! This is not crazy paranoid conspiracy theory talk! It happens every minute of everyday in America in so many forms to a great extent. It's happening right now on the computer I'm on and at this website.
As soon as some group believes the quality of info obtained justifies the effort to obtain it, the AT will come under greater surveillance. Surveillance/information gathering methods already exist that could, and have been, employed to monitor people, events, and info on the AT.
Can't anyone set up a camera in the woods or public places? I think it would depend on who you define as "anyone", their intent, and the context in which the info is gathered. Technically, on a legal basis, no you can't always do this, but that doesn't mean it isn't routinely done.
Gathering large amounts of info that get crunched into massive and specific profile/parameter data bases goes way beyond just obtaining info from surveillance cameras or what governmental law enforcement agencies are involve in.
Now, let's just go hike or talk about tents or something else!
That guy with the foil helmet looks like a darn fool. The helmet is all wrong. Wrong shape, wrong size and missing the brass deflectors.
I don't care who you are, that's just funny as h***. :banana
jersey joe
11-09-2009, 14:35
The ATC could use surveillance cameras to monitor who has actually hiked the entire trail and who hasn't?!?
Alligator
11-09-2009, 14:42
It's already started, there are tracking chips in all the thruhiking guides.
They're aren't any in ALDHA's Companion!:p Prove it.;)
BlazeWalker
11-09-2009, 15:24
Happily, actual surveillance on or near Trails is a very rare thing.
However, it does happen.......
http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=280388 (http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=280388)
That's TERRIBLE!!! I'll have to look in there and check for people next time I do my business!
Alligator
11-09-2009, 16:02
They're aren't any in ALDHA's Companion!:p Prove it.;)I'm already compromising my safety by acknowledging their existence. You've been warned.
To insure all people are purists on all trails (including uncompleted trails like the CDT and the PNT), all hikers will now have radio collars embedded with SPOT-like technology to insure proper tracking.
The fee will be $300 to rent the device for up to 6 mos. The majority of the fees will be to pay for trail maintenance.
Surveillance cameras on the trail? They'll never survive the onslaught of Boy Scout troops. They're like termites I tell ya...........
We're starting to flounder into the silly paranoid deep end of the pool and I suppose the OP's statements contributed to that, but to answer the OP's question.....do you think we will ever live to see surveillance on the trail? Yes, it's already happening, if we keep in mind that surveillance occurs in many forms and on many different levels. Motion sensors, profiling, ranger and law enforcement patrols, satellite imaging, infra red imaging, night vison technology, etc. are already employed near and on trails in places like Big Bend NP, the PCT in southern Cali, the Long Tr near the Canadian border, Everglades NP, IAT, and almost definitely elsewhere and to a larger extent than we realize.
And, if we define surveillance in the broader terms of information gathering, often done discretely by those who don't readily admit to it or admit to how the info is used or shared/sold, and commited upon those that don't know the extent to which it's ocurring to them, or even realize it's ocurring to them, and even less aware of how that info is used by other parties to fulfill someone else's agenda, we begin to see surveillance is all around us in America and it just doesn't apply to law enforcement or govermental agencies.
I think the problem is the darn pesky political threqads.
I am reasonably certain that political threqads is a new pejorative for darn pesky politicians.
I betcha.
robmurphy
11-10-2009, 02:38
I'm completely law abiding and follow the rules, but I want to relay what just happened to me regarding cameras.
A friend and I were trail hiking in a county park that also has some private land and an abandoned, off limits USAF base. On the way down from our trail loop we were stopped by 5 park rangers who said we were being cited for misdemeanor trespassing and had been identified using cameras located at the Air Force base. We told them they were wrong, to show us the video, etc. It was all a huge bluff and lie to get us to admit to something that someone else did. After 20 minutes of this back and forth, they finally let us go without a ticket. I doubt that any cameras exist on the base at all.
I have relatives who are police officers, but want to remind you all that police, park rangers, ridge walkers and anyone else with the ability to ticket, fine or arrest will lie and bluff to try to get you to admit to some crime. Don't fall for it. The claim of "we say you do it on a remote camera" may or may not be true.
After wasting 20 minutes with these clowns, we walked back to our truck. As I was taking off my backpack I remembered I had my GPS and it had been recording our track from the start with GPS waypoints every 2 minutes. It completely matched the loop we told them we took, and proved we were no where near the off limits site. That would have been great to use in court, but I'd rather have the outcome we did of having them give up and let us go.
California is in a huge budget crush and they're talking about laying off park rangers. I love to find a way to nominate these 5 guys for a permanent vacation.
Airborne3325
11-10-2009, 09:56
If you have ever been to a hospital emergency room, you are already being watched. Nearly 92.3% of all Americans have already been implanted with a tracking chip and the government watches our every move at all times.
Then again, maybe Im just being paranoid....... WHO SAID THAT?!?!?!?
.......Nearly 92.3% of all Americans have already been implanted with a tracking chip.......Do bear in mind, however, that 89.965% of all statistics are made up on the spot. :rolleyes:
Pedaling Fool
11-10-2009, 10:15
All surveillance will cease on 12/21/12. Global warming will also go away and if you have any large outstanding debts… well don’t worry about it.
So much for getting away from the crowd and stealthing .N......
DirtBagger
11-14-2009, 09:49
Argued and answered.
Cameras are the new tax. Or soon will be.
Tennessee is already testing legislation to allow cities and counties to use camera enforced toll roads on public roads and streets. The issue now is that they cannot reciprocate with other states until other states pass similar legislation. They have already allowed drivers license photos to be scanned for use in recognition software. They even changed the way the new photos are taken to allow more accurate software recognition.
So eventually there will be camera enforced:
Road usage fee
Sidewalk useage fee
and yes - I can see a trail usage fee in more popular areas like Smokies, SNP, and the Whites.
It is a part of life - there is no need for me to worry about it.
dilligas
11-14-2009, 11:22
I walk backwards so they think I am a heading north when in fact I am SB.
Change daily from shoes to boots to heels and then barefooted to alter my tracks.
Aluminum foil hats no longer work, balancing a large bathroom mirror on you head is the latest upgrade.
Cheers
It was all a huge bluff and lie to get us to admit to something that someone else did...
I have relatives who are police officers, but want to remind you all that police, park rangers, ridge walkers and anyone else with the ability to ticket, fine or arrest will lie and bluff to try to get you to admit to some crime. Don't fall for it. The claim of "we say you do it on a remote camera" may or may not be true.
And, this is somehow recent news to you? One of law enforcements most often used tools is deception or lieing. They do it everyday, but they are not quick to admit to anyone that they regularly engage in lieing. And, they justify their lieing by saying it helps them catch law breakers. Which it does!
All of my friends and relatives that have pursued careers in law enforcement have definitely become very different people since having gone into this field. I suppose this happens for many reasons. They have a hard time committing to and trusting people outside of law enforcement. Many of them have turned to drinking to cope with what they have seen. They don't know how to turn off the suspicious thinking and investigative training that tells them, "this individual is lieing to me, what's this person's angle, someone is always lieing to me?"
Jack Tarlin
11-14-2009, 17:16
Sorry to hear you say that, Dogwood.
I know people (and have friends) who are police officers and they're all fine.
I'm not sure your generalization is entirely fair. Every profession has people that bring the job home with them, but this doesn't apply to everyone in that particular profession.
HeartFire
11-14-2009, 19:20
I've often thought it would be fun to place a bunch of those motion sensitive game camaras along the trail to take pictures of hikers (and other critters who use the AT super highway thru the woods). Say, one near Springer, then at each state line crossing. Would be a good way to get a reasonably accurate count of how many hikers really do make it all the way or how far they really got.
NO!, Not at the state line crossings, I don't want to be caught on film peeing across the state line!
Heartfire is marking turf. Can't imagine anyone doing that.:sun
Wise Old Owl
11-14-2009, 20:09
All surveillance will cease on 12/21/12. Global warming will also go away and if you have any large outstanding debts… well don’t worry about it.
Those smart Amazon gods................
And, this is somehow recent news to you? One of law enforcements most often used tools is deception or lieing. They do it everyday, but they are not quick to admit to anyone that they regularly engage in lieing. And, they justify their lieing by saying it helps them catch law breakers. Which it does!
This was a generalization of investigative law enforcement and one which I think is accurate.
Every profession has people that bring the job home with them, but this doesn't apply to everyone in that particular profession.
Agreed, but this next paragraph is not a generalization of all law enforcement. It was only referring to the eight or so individuals I closely know that have pursued careers in law enforcement.
All of my friends and relatives that have pursued careers in law enforcement have definitely become very different people since having gone into this field. I suppose this happens for many reasons. They have a hard time committing to and trusting people outside of law enforcement. Many of them have turned to drinking to cope with what they have seen. They don't know how to turn off the suspicious thinking and investigative training that tells them, "this individual is lieing to me, what's this person's angle, someone is always lieing to me?"
Wise Old Owl
11-14-2009, 20:26
http://traxus4420.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/surveillance-cameras-400.jpg
WATCH VIDEO... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu1RP34FLXU
NOW READ REALLY SCARY CRAP.......
http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=280388
vamelungeon
11-14-2009, 20:44
Being as 1984 was 25 years ago I'm disappointed that our government seems to be so far behind the curve. We should vote the bums out.
ive thought of that when ive seen signs with alot of restrictions on it on the trail, and if were to ever come a across a camera on the trail i would defenitly destroy it. I dont think it will ever happen though.
sheepdog
11-14-2009, 23:24
I just wear my tinfoil hat. It makes me invisible to surveilance and it drowns out the voices.
warraghiyagey
11-14-2009, 23:40
I just wear my tinfoil hat. It makes me invisible to surveilance and it drowns out the voices.
http://www.shot-net.com/UFOTrax/signs.zoomie.hats.jpg
stranger
11-15-2009, 02:11
Anything is possible in the "land of the free"
I can see it now....I get home from a hike and there is a ticket in my mail box. It's for indecent exposer for peeing behind a tree....
I agree with Dogwood.
N......