Feeling different since the hike [Archive]

sbhikes

11-12-2009, 01:05

Ok so I know I've talked about this before, but I'm agonna bring it up again.

I feel different since the hike. I hiked the trail in two long sections. After the first section, I felt depressed and incomplete. So I completed the rest this year. At the end, I felt finished and complete and happy.

While on the trail, after a while, I really wanted to go home. And that is because there were so many wonderful things I wanted to do. I wanted to come home and live a rich, full life of music, gardening, writing, volunteering and backpacking locally.

I was never terribly materialistic before hiking, but now that I'm home, I feel so unmaterialistic I think I'm a bit of a nut. I have nut-case thoughts about how much I hate consumerism and corporations and what they've done to the earth and to our politics. I dream of one day owning a camper van and living a life of perpetual camping. I've been reading information on alternative living and becoming less dependent on money for survival. The middle-class striving thing is just not in my nature. It never was and the hike showed me that. I don't have a plan to do anything different, but I feel free knowing that I don't have to live the way I always believed I should. No matter what, I will survive happily.

I have a part-time temporary job. When it ends I hope I can find a similar job. I don't think I can take stressful work anymore. I don't think I can commit to coming to the same place day after day after day, worrying if they'll fire me and putting up with office politics and all that ambition which I don't have. I might be stuck in low-wage work because of no longer tolerating stress and imprisonment. Oddly, I work more now than I ever did before, but I'm so much happier because of the lack of stress and the feeling of being imprisoned by permanent work.

So anyway, the hike had an impact on me. I hope I can find where I'm going next. I'm very happy. I'm so glad I did it.

If you can share how the hike changed you, I would appreciate it. Nobody in the so-called "real" world understands any of this.

Ramble~On

11-12-2009, 03:24

You're not alone and from what I understand it's pretty common for it to take a while to adjust back into the land of cotton.
I'm still getting used to being indoors without fresh air all around me.
I miss the people and the slow, easy lifestyle.

double d

11-12-2009, 07:06

SBHikes, I think we all try to find what might be termed the "good life". How you define it is up to you, so trust your thoughts and act on them. I think we all have a love/hate relationship with jobs, money, consumerism and corporations. We as a society try very hard to socialize each and every one of us to be very hard working, under-paid and highly indebted Americans, so we all must find what makes us happy, which includes many of the activities you mentioned.

TOW

11-12-2009, 08:03

Tipi Walter

11-12-2009, 08:32

THE SECRET AND PURPOSE OF LIFE
The whole purpose of life is to see how little $ you can make and still be happy(i.e. and still live outdoors). This neanderthal American Dream is just the opposite of the usual American Dream , and it takes as much ambition and intelligence and perseverance to attain as does the usual American Dream of the big house on the hill.

I'll go ahead and call it the Medium Sized Tipi on a Snowy Ridgetop American Dream, where the wealthiest person lives in the wildest places and gets to experience the four seasons up close and personal. A billionaire can go ahead and buy 10,000 acres of Montana landscape, but the backpacking bum can enjoy millions of acres rent free on America's forests and wilderness areas. Or she can go ahead and buy a couple acres with foot access only in the middle of nowhere and set up a primitive permanent camp w/o electricity or running water, etc. Why foot access only? Because how are you going to backpack regularly if you can drive to where you live and sleep?

Cheers

11-12-2009, 08:59

I think it's a bit of a blessing and a curse. I spent a few years travleing and hiking. It has certainly changed my life, and in many ways for the better. I never went back to office work or inside jobs. Every single job i;ve had since having hiked for so long has been spent out of doors. I'm a farmer and self employed carpenter, both jobs are great, and i could not see my life without them in it. However, once you've proved to yourself that literally anything is possible, given the right amount of effort and energy put in, you kind of get the bug for change. I've been living on the egde now for about 5 years, not really always knowing where my next paycheck is going to come from, while exciting and liberating, it can get rather tiring. I'm finding it hard to feel settled after having done some things in my life that have been fairly out of the ordinary. I'm always thinking about the next challenge, and then taking it on. I'm sure a lot of people are ok with being that way, but it can create a little conflict when one part of you just wants something steady, the other part knows what its like to live a little dangerously. Anyone else feel like this?

Cheers

sbhikes

11-13-2009, 00:50

THE SECRET AND PURPOSE OF LIFE
The whole purpose of life is to see how little $ you can make and still be happy(i.e. and still live outdoors). This neanderthal American Dream

Yeah, that's what it seems like I'm trying to do. Or it seems to be the less money I feel that I need the happier I am. It's kind of like when you make a lot of money you get sloppy with it and then you get to the point where you think you need a lot of money just to get by.

But if you live like you don't have a lot of money, see how little money you actually need, it's a lot better. You get closer to the simplicity and the flexibility you need to be able to do things that really matter.

As far as feeling like you're always living on the edge and how tiring that is, yeah, I feel that way. But I think, why should trail magic only work on the trail? I think it can work in regular life, too.

Rather than see the world as The Trail vs. the "Real" world, I'm hoping to live the life of the trail at home. Rather than know there's a hole in the fence somewhere that I can return to, I want to open that hole up so that I'm always on the other side.

Tucky

11-13-2009, 01:21

I like the idea of being free as well. It's unfortunate that the cycle of life has been ingrained in us from birth: school, college, job, retirement, blah blah blah, to the point where alternative options seem almost taboo in the commoner's eye. If you're working 50 weeks out of the year what can you really do outside of a very isolated area where you work and live? Sure, you may have a lot of things but who cares. What can you really learn from these things? Maybe it's the preferred life for some people but I have a hard time coming to terms with it. Experiences are worth more than anything you can purchase. Keep doing what you're doing and be happy. If you aren't happy, what's the point really?

TOW

11-13-2009, 08:13

Selling tater peelers will give you the freedom that you desire, plus you will meet lots of different folk......

Gray Blazer

11-13-2009, 08:43

This thread reminds me that this is the beauty of the USA. You have the choice to excel in whatever you like. I, for one, am glad that some people excel at making some of the material things mentioned in this thread like potato peelers and camper vans. Mediocraty is another choice that a lot of americans are taking advantage of these days. If mediocraty becomes the new American Dream, I shudder to think of how this affects all of us. I could go on, but, I need another cup of coffee.

The Solemates

11-13-2009, 10:17

In my opinion true happiness only comes from filling that void in your life that only God can fill. not trying to start any debate here..

neighbor dave

11-13-2009, 10:27

great thread.

evolution

sbhikes

11-13-2009, 11:38

And what if you find god on the trail, not in a church? Most churchy people who talk about god appear to me to be worshiping mammon most of the time, like everybody else in America.

I think there is a tendency for people to believe that if you choose to live a life not focused on the usual striving for money and possessions it means you aren't working.

The trouble with striving for money and possessions is that you have less time for real work. You have to pay other people to grow your food, take care of your children, make your clothes, build your house, provide you with heat and energy, be involved in your community. What if you want to do these things for yourself?

What if we Americans get to a place where nobody knows how to do these things and all that stuff stops coming over from China? Talk about lives of mediocrity! How mediocre it is to be a middle manager somewhere producing TPS reports all day!

I guess I'm just odd in that I would rather be more free to choose what it is I waste my money on than to be enslaved at a job like the last one where I went to work every day even if there was nothing to do all day long and then was left with no time to do anything interesting.

I have something to do every day now. Soon I might have a sewing machine and then I'll have even more things to do. I won't be selling potato peelers, but maybe kevlar chaps for cutting brush in the backcountry or something like that.

Anyway, hiking the trail showed me it is important to work the body and spirit and to not be afraid. It taught me that you don't need a lot of things to be happy. It showed me you can live without every single need of your life being monetized, or rather, it showed me how far we have gone down that path. I want out of that.

neighbor dave

11-13-2009, 11:43

all sounds reasonable to me

burger

11-13-2009, 11:51

I've felt a similar disconnect form modern life since my first AT section. And now, after thru-hiking the PCT, it's far worse. This post-hike journal entry from Treehugger (http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=164901) pretty much sums up my predicament:

I am ruined. It sounds dramatic. But I am. My motivation to work in a real job and have nice things--gone. I had 3 retirement funds I was contributing to regularly and plans to go to grad school very soon. I think about the trail (by this, I mean trail life; any long trail) at least once a minute.

...

I was pretending to look for jobs for a while. In fact, for a while I actually thought I wanted to start back up in my career. But here I am. Just today I turned down an opportunity to interview for a job in my career, make plenty of money and live in a place that I would LOVE. Why? Because when I am honest with myself, I know this summer I am going to attempt to hike the CDT.Ditto for me. I used to want a house and a big career and money, and now I just want to hike more. Stupid trail--ruined me forever (not that I'd have it any other way).

handlebar

11-13-2009, 11:57

..... If you're working 50 weeks out of the year what can you really do outside of a very isolated area where you work and live? Sure, you may have a lot of things but who cares. What can you really learn from these things? Maybe it's the preferred life for some people but I have a hard time coming to terms with it. Experiences are worth more than anything you can purchase. Keep doing what you're doing and be happy. If you aren't happy, what's the point really?

Great thread! Maybe this will be "thread drift" but here are some thoughts I have on this subject.

I'm glad some of my life experiences gave me the opportunity to consider the advantages of a "less is more" life style. I've been retired now for 4-1/2 years and was able to do so after I simply stepped off the rat race tread mill after having experienced a couple extended, 6+ month periods of unemployment when I was in my forties. Right now countless Americans and are experiencing the same long periods of unemployment and worrying about getting back to work 50 weeks a year.

These long periods of unemployment were somewhat like what I experienced on my two thru hikes. We, my family and I, learned that we could live a richer life on less. I even used the time to start an exercise program that I continued after I was re-employed. I also continued to value free time and was fortunate during the end of my working life to have found a job that valued my experience and offered a full 4 weeks off every year. In addition, having learned to live on less, we continued to live on less, saving the surplus. That's what allowed me to retire at 60.

I often wonder why it isn't the custom in the US, as it is in Europe, to provide at least 4 weeks vacation, in addition to liberal holidays. Could it be we voluntarily imprison ourselves in jobs just to get all the things Madison Avenue tells us we need: multiple cars, McMansions, cell phones, etc, etc. Wouldn't it be nice if the millions of unemployed people in today's recession came to the realization that time for oneself was invaluable and brought about a quiet revolution that changes our culture to value the relationships we have with others and our environment (our life experiences) over the empty promise of happiness based on quantities of things we accumulate or consume?

Then we might, as a society, decide that, yes, every worker should have at least 4 weeks of vacation. We might even decide to stop worshiping the 5 day, 40 hour week and spread the work around to everyone on a 4 day, 32 hour week. We could grant periodic "sabbaticals" to allow reflection. That would give the potential to eliminate unemployment altogether and provide the opportunity to enjoy long weekends every week. We might define ourselves less in terms of "what we do" and more in terms of "who we are and what we've experienced".

We, Americans, lead the world. We can set an example that is less material and more spiritual. Individually, we might have fewer things, but we'd all and each one have so much more.

Jayboflavin04

11-13-2009, 12:13

TIpi's post reminds me of some song lyrics......

"Brother please don't tell me! Money take you far! ME I got this whole world, and you got your new car. But it wont take you to that mountain."
Trent Wagler and the Steel Wheels

The Solemates

11-13-2009, 15:14

And what if you find god on the trail, not in a church?

It doesn't really matter where you "find" Him.

buff_jeff

11-13-2009, 19:15

Ah, I just try to be happy wherever I am. Every break I get, I plan a hiking/mountaineering/backpack traveling trip somewhere. I'm on track to become a teacher so I'll have 2 month summer breaks to do what I want. And, while I'm sometimes astonished at my own materialism, I'm even more shocked by the extent to which people nowadays outright DEFINE their lives on what they own. It seems like my generation defines itself on the work of others-what music you listen to, what video games you play, whose clothes you wear, etc.

Blissful

11-13-2009, 21:11

I wanted to come home and live a rich, full life of music, gardening, writing, volunteering and backpacking locally.

I don't see anything wrong with any of these pursuits or a longing to do them while you were on the trail.

But one does need to work to pay the bills (whether the bill is the gas to move the camper).

Dogwood

11-13-2009, 21:59

I feel different since the hike. - welcome to the backpacking world. You are not alone in your sentiments. Everyone that I know who has done a long hike is permanently changed!

I hiked the trail in two long sections. After the first section, I felt depressed and incomplete. So I completed the rest this year. At the end, I felt finished and complete and happy. - you are not alone in your sentiments. Knowing that you brought closure to a long journey with its ordeals is definitely something people should feel elated about. Interesting enough, is that while you brought one journey to a conclusion at the same time it has opened the door to so many other possible journeys and ways of thinking!

While on the trail, after a while, I really wanted to go home. And that is because there were so many wonderful things I wanted to do. I wanted to come home and live a rich, full life of music, gardening, writing, volunteering and backpacking locally. - lots of other hikers share this belief too.

I was never terribly materialistic before hiking, but now that I'm home, I feel so unmaterialistic I think I'm a bit of a nut. I have nut-case thoughts about how much I hate consumerism and corporations and what they've done to the earth and to our politics.... - MANY hikers share these sentiments too!

I dream of one day owning a camper van and living a life of perpetual camping. I've been reading information on alternative living and becoming less dependent on money for survival. The middle-class striving thing is just not in my nature. It never was and the hike showed me that.,,, - lots of hikers share these sentiments too! I don't have a plan to do anything different, but I feel free knowing that I don't have to live the way I always believed I should.... lots of hikers have learned this too!

.... I don't think I can commit to coming to the same place day after day after day, worrying if they'll fire me and putting up with office politics and all that ambition which I don't have. I might be stuck in low-wage work because of no longer tolerating stress and imprisonment. Oddly, I work more now than I ever did before, but I'm so much happier because of the lack of stress and the feeling of being imprisoned by permanent work.,, yup, same thoughts sahred by many others in the backpacking community.

.....I'm so glad I did it.- that seems to be the reigning sentiment!

Thanks for sharing.

amac

11-14-2009, 07:20

If you can share how the hike changed you, I would appreciate it. Nobody in the so-called "real" world understands any of this.
I am yet to do anything the resembles a long hike, but just my short-term ventures in the wilderness change me in similar ways. The times I spend in the wilderness fills a void of connection that is otherwise empty, something that my suburban lifestyle seems to have forgotten about. I believe that we, as human creatures, have a set of base-level needs. One of them is a connection to our natural surroundings. My trips to the woods replenishes that.

I've been reading information on alternative living and becoming less dependent on money for survival. The middle-class striving thing is just not in my nature.
Please share some of the reading sources, as I am quite interested in learning about alternative lifestyles.

It seems like my generation defines itself on the work of others-what music you listen to, what video games you play, whose clothes you wear, etc.
This is a brilliant statement. And don't think the issue lies only with your generation. I'm in my 40's and I know too many folks who define themselves by their house, car, wrist-watch, etc. Heck, I know outdoorsmen who constantly tell me about their "top-of-the-line" gear, instead of the experience they had in the wilderness. Your choice of words, "defines itself on the work of others", is perfect. I am now going to monitor my own conversations to see how often I do the same, and strive to cease that behavior.

emerald

11-14-2009, 13:48

One way to cut down on the need for cash is find a place to live which more closely resembles the wild areas one misses and populated by people who have similiar values. Not infrequently, these people are right in our own communities. Since many opt to not spend their time online and don't call attention to themselves, it can be a challenge finding them, but real people make better company.

sbhikes

11-14-2009, 15:19

For sources of information I have been typing in different things into Google and then following my way around the various links. I'd post links, but where would be the fun for you in that?

Some good sites I visited were about:
- An urban homestead in Pasadena. They grew 6000lbs of food on 1/10 of an acre.
- A couple that were back-to-the-landers in the 70s. They wrote a book called Radical Simplicity.
- A guy who lives without money. His life is very extreme, but he expresses thoughts I had during my hike.
- Blogs by people who live their lives traveling the world.
- Hillbillies living in Philadelphia. Wrote a hilarious read called Possum Living.
- A wacky site about how artists survive by "bottom feeding". I always wondered how they managed.
- A guy who bought cheap land in the desert and calls his homestead Rancho Costa Nada.
- Information about working as a campground host, including a web site where there are jobs for people who live a mobile kind of life.
- Some more "normal" frugal blogs like the Simple Dollar are helpful, too.

All of these sites have helped me see that with some creativity, you can do things your own way and not be so darn stuck and feeling so hopeless if you can't keep up with it all.

At the very least, I'm cheered up to know that when I'm old I might stand a chance of survival. I don't have a lot of money now and probably won't make much during the last 20 years I have left of productive work life. But being creative and resourceful, and knowing the secrets the trail taught me, I know that there is a difference between deprivation and simplicity, accumulation and abundance.

As for people defining themselves off the work of others. I'm so not like that. I heard some good music and my first thought was not that I wanted to buy more music, it was that I wanted to buy a fiddle and learn to play it!

Dogwood

11-14-2009, 15:59

Several posts on this thread mention being able to live on less. To me, it must mean, at least in part, that Americans, at least the Americans posting here, are questioning thier consumption. This is largely counter culture! Consuming less is not a favorite topic for individual Americans, American business, and American government, both on the state and federal levels. In so many areas and from so many different angles Americans are actually pushed to consume more. And, this pervails throughout our society from the most indigent citizens to the lofty reaches of the federal goverment. Personally, I see many spoiled and wasteful Americans that are deeply and firmly enthrenched in selfish American Consumerism. It seems to be the norm. Many of these same Americans I meet are ignorant, largely ignorant to what else is going on in the world beyond the U.S. or the region in which they live, and ignorant to what the consequences and pre-requisites are for them personally and this nation to live this way. Even when presented with the facts about how wasteful and consumer driven our country is the vast majority don't seem very concerned. They often still have the habituated attitude of, "get out of my way I have shopping to do." They behave like drug addicts! Shopping and consumption have become the great American past times! There is this little discussed or recognized inherent belief in America that American is THE HOUSE ON THE TOP OF THE HILL. We alone reside at the top. And, with this belief comes a deep sense of selfish spoiled entitlement - a sense of entitlement that includes having the right to justly consume and waste.

When large groups of individuals start questioning consumption in the U.S. I promise there will be those in government and the business sector who will start to listen as less consumption and waste will eventually impact their ability to achieve their agendas.

Mass consumtion and waste seem to be the standard in the U.S.

emerald

11-14-2009, 17:10

For some, it's get out of my way, I still have shopping to do!:eek:

Awesome rant!:welcome

johnnybgood

11-14-2009, 17:10

I too relish the simplity of making do with little and not being overly materalistic .
The need to "keep up with the Jones' mentality has never been something that I ever embraced.
We each need to examine our dreams and determine if it coincides with our daily lives.

As you have already so eloquently stated ,the desire to work day after day in the same unrewarding environment is not something that you invision for yourself and I can relate to that totally.

We follow the routiness of our busy lives all too often at the expense of an inner voice which beckons us to listen more closely to the desires that live outside of what's considered appropriate to the world in which we live.

* To quote John C. Maxwell " We all need something worthwhile to aim for. A dream provides us with that. It acts as a compass, telling us the direction we should travel."

sbhikes

11-14-2009, 17:17

I already questioned consumption before hiking the trail, but hiking the trail really made me understand what people say when they tell you that your possessions own you.

Also, because hiking was so physical, it made me question my production. What was I really producing every day at work?

I don't want to live as a node on the waste stream conveyor belt for the rest of my life, that's for sure.

Rabbott

11-14-2009, 18:02

Hi,
I just turned 16 and I am wondering about my future. I go to a prep school where there is a lot of pressure to attend a prestigious college and be "successful," but I don't really buy into the whole philosophy. I don't want to let my parents down, but I've thought a lot about having a future different from my classmates. I have so many plans but none of them are college/ marriage/ kids and a job! Mainly, I want to be a wanderer and have the adventures that I know I never will in this little town. Does anyone in this group have any advice about going through this?
I've wanted to thru- hike the AT for about a year now- my family day hikes a lot but I've never backpacked before although I hope to this summer. Does anybody know about chat forums for teens who are interested in the AT?
thanks very much for your thoughts.
-Rabbott

Rabbott

11-14-2009, 18:04

PS. I am very glad to find adults who don't buy into the whole "keeping up with the Jones" thing. thanks for all your wisdom in this forum!

johnnybgood

11-14-2009, 18:42

Hello there Rabbott... :welcome
Honestly ,I would begin here with a thread. This forum will introduce you to young adults your age, some I'm sure that may be in similar circumstances.

Good Luck ! :)

Pedaling Fool

11-14-2009, 18:50

Since my hike I can't go without plain M&M's; I keep a candy jar filled all the time. I use to hate them, now I can't get enough.

wnderer

11-14-2009, 19:43

This thread reminds me of a story.

When Alexander the Great conquered Greece, he wanted to meet the original back to nature philosopher, Diogenes the Cynic. He was told that Diogenes was sunbathing out in this field. So Alexander and his whole entourage of body guards, aides and generals, go out to this field and find Diogenes buck naked, catching some rays. Alexander poked him with his sword and said "who are you?" Diogenes opened one eye and looked up at this bunch and said "I'm Diogenes the dog, who are you." Alexander said, "I am the king. Ask me for anything and I will see that you have it." Diogenes replied. "Stand out of my sun." :sun

Tipi Walter

11-14-2009, 19:59

sbhikes

11-14-2009, 21:53

Rabbot, it might be worth your while learning how to teach English as a Second Language. Then you could travel the world and work anywhere in the world. You'd still need a college education, but college can also be an adventure if you take advantage of study abroad and whatever else you can get from it.

wnderer

11-14-2009, 21:56

Wasn't Diogenes that guy with the lantern who roamed the city streets of Athens during daylight and said he was looking for a few honest men?

Yes. He did that to. He believed civilization was a bad idea and had corrupted humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_Sinope

He also would of made a great ultra lite hiker. He owned a cup until he saw a child take a drink from a stream by cupping his hands. Then he threw the cup away.

amac

11-15-2009, 09:27

Rabbott,
I'm sure many will disagree with me, bet here's my 2 cents:
If I could go back and do things over again I would take a year off after high school and do an adventure; hike the AT, backpack from hostel to hostel in Europe, whatever. This is common in Europe. I strongly suggest going to college after the adventure. The experiences, friends, and the education will last a lifetime. Plus, you have a lifetime in front of you and you simply can't know where it will lead. It's not a pleasant truth, but true just the same: not having a college degree will close A LOT of doors.

Bearpaw

11-15-2009, 12:32

I have so many plans but none of them are college/ marriage/ kids and a job! Mainly, I want to be a wanderer and have the adventures that I know I never will in this little town. Does anyone in this group have any advice about going through this?

You know what they call a wanderer who has an education? An adventurer or a world traveller.

Know what they call a wanderer with NO education? A bum.

You don't have to get married or have kids or seek that high-paying job to find happiness in life, but get your education. It will leave a lot of options open that close away forever if you start wandering with barely a high school diploma.

My education was mostly all that kept me from being a bum when I left the Marine Corps and through-hiked, and went on to teach mountaineering and wilderness travel in the Rockies. That education allowed me to move into teaching in a classroom which offers me 3 months of backpacking time each year, the freedom to earn enough income to travel or even move where I want to go, and the future to make those choices. It also allows me to make a real difference in the lives of some of my students.

Just remember, your spirit, your memories, and your education are the only things other people can never take from you.

Big Dawg

11-15-2009, 20:44

You know what they call a wanderer who has an education? An adventurer or a world traveller.

Know what they call a wanderer with NO education? A bum.

You don't have to get married or have kids or seek that high-paying job to find happiness in life, but get your education. It will leave a lot of options open that close away forever if you start wandering with barely a high school diploma.

My education was mostly all that kept me from being a bum when I left the Marine Corps and through-hiked, and went on to teach mountaineering and wilderness travel in the Rockies. That education allowed me to move into teaching in a classroom which offers me 3 months of backpacking time each year, the freedom to earn enough income to travel or even move where I want to go, and the future to make those choices. It also allows me to make a real difference in the lives of some of my students.

Just remember, your spirit, your memories, and your education are the only things other people can never take from you.

Well said Bearpaw

sbhikes

11-16-2009, 00:52

Brian (aka Skippy)

11-18-2009, 13:47

I can't help but think about the lyrics to "Rat Race" by Bob Marley here...

"In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty."

Can't wait until I feel like you do SB...can't wait!!!

Montana AT05

11-18-2009, 20:42

Say these things to the truly tired and weary.

Say these things to the Cubans who risked their lives paddling here in makeshift rafts.

Say these things to the Burmese, to Africans living under the whip of the despot du jour, to the man or woman old enough to have lived under the yoke of communism, err I mean, under a "worker's paradise".

Say these things to a North Korean who was told to eat grass and to hate America while chewing it.

Say these things to immigrants who want a chance to earn money, to live in nice houses, to have nice schools, to have access to stores that are stocked with a wide variety of goods, to build careers, to start their own corporations, to become wealthy <-- perish the thought.

Only in a prosperous country can a people indulge themselves in the disdain of prosperity.

Oh ya, also, camper vans are made by corporations. Even the VW bus types that descended like locusts on a small town in New England round about the end of the 60's; leaving behind them piles of trash, devastated farmlands and distraught home owners.

Oh yes, I love the smell of disdain in the morning, it smells like, it smells like...privilege.

Now let's go surfing.

sbhikes

11-19-2009, 00:09

Wage slavery is worth escaping.

Brian (aka Skippy)

11-19-2009, 07:26

Wage slavery is worth escaping.

Instead of pyramids we build skyscrapers.

Montana AT05

11-20-2009, 13:49

Wage slavery is worth escaping.

When Castro took power in Cuba, in the 1960's. He froze wages. They remain frozen at that level today.

That, my rasta-friend, is wage slavery.

And skycrapers are many times more amazing than the pyramids. Plus, they are built by freemen, earning good wages. If you consider them wage slaves then you yourself are a slave...a slave to Kantian babble, to University-centric silliness and demogoguery.

There is a reason that the uniformed individuals among us talk lovingly of life in a tribal, primitive, throw-back to prehistoric times era and there is a reason that they talk as such while securely ensconced in a plush-backed-chair at the nouveau-hip coffee shop sipping on double-scrappee-doo-frappa-chino-mochas and munching on stale bread dressed up as a delicacy.

Hey I like the AT and other hikes as much as everyone here, and I am planning my second sortie on it next year (watch out here comes the Conservative!). I like the simplicity and the daily focus--and I like that I am responsible for each day, for the goals I set and the results I get. But I know why it is possible. There is a reason no one thru hike in Cuba. There is a reason there is no Ural Mountains Thru Hike.

The Solemates

11-20-2009, 14:04

When Castro took power in Cuba, in the 1960's. He froze wages. They remain frozen at that level today.

That, my rasta-friend, is wage slavery.

And skycrapers are many times more amazing than the pyramids. Plus, they are built by freemen, earning good wages. If you consider them wage slaves then you yourself are a slave...a slave to Kantian babble, to University-centric silliness and demogoguery.

There is a reason that the uniformed individuals among us talk lovingly of life in a tribal, primitive, throw-back to prehistoric times era and there is a reason that they talk as such while securely ensconced in a plush-backed-chair at the nouveau-hip coffee shop sipping on double-scrappee-doo-frappa-chino-mochas and munching on stale bread dressed up as a delicacy.

Hey I like the AT and other hikes as much as everyone here, and I am planning my second sortie on it next year (watch out here comes the Conservative!). I like the simplicity and the daily focus--and I like that I am responsible for each day, for the goals I set and the results I get. But I know why it is possible. There is a reason no one thru hike in Cuba. There is a reason there is no Ural Mountains Thru Hike.

couldnt agree with ya more...well said! i cant stand reading blabber such is on this thread about people acting like they dont have a choice in life.

flemdawg1

11-20-2009, 14:46

There is a happy medium between "real housewives of OC" and trail bum. The great thing about being an American is the choice you have. Don't like your job, leave it. Don't like a mcmansion, don't buy one. Hate office politics, don't get into them. It is possible to have a well paying meaningful career, live simply (buy the necessicities of life, then stay away from the mall), and be a genorous compassionate loving person.

BobTheBuilder

11-20-2009, 14:57

sbhikes-

Take this with a barrel of salt, but maybe what you miss is not the trail, but a goal. And not a little goal, but a big, honkin', larger-than-life, take-evreything-you-got kind of goal.

When I see you write about taking 'menial' jobs to avoid stress, I wonder why you didn't walk around your local park in order to avoid stress instead of a thru hike.

I'm just sayin' maybe the challenge is the fun. You don't have to work in a land mine factory, you could find something useful and good for the world that would still be a challenge. I work managing major construction of large pollution control projects at power plants. I know that doesn't make me Mother Theresa, but it helps the world out a little. Yeah, my clients are huge evil power companies that mindlessly generate electricity for my plasma tv's, and it is a lot of stress and a lot of work, but the challenge is what makes it interesting.

I say ignore all the political crap, but consider maybe that you have the kind of willpower, drive, and stubborness that most people don't, and what you're really missing might be a chance to put those qualities to good use.

I hope that wasn't preachy. I was shooting for motivational.

Tipi Walter

11-20-2009, 15:42

And skycrapers are many times more amazing than the pyramids.

There is a reason that the uniformed individuals among us talk lovingly of life in a tribal, primitive, throw-back to prehistoric times era and there is a reason that they talk as such while securely ensconced in a plush-backed-chair at the nouveau-hip coffee shop sipping on double-scrappee-doo-frappa-chino-mochas and munching on stale bread dressed up as a delicacy.

Hey I like the AT and other hikes as much as everyone here, and I am planning my second sortie on it next year (watch out here comes the Conservative!). I like the simplicity and the daily focus--and I like that I am responsible for each day, for the goals I set and the results I get. But I know why it is possible. There is a reason no one thru hike in Cuba. There is a reason there is no Ural Mountains Thru Hike.

These are your opinions only, especially the skyscraper quote. You might have forgotten that modern anatomical humans have been living in a tribal, primitive state for around 190,000 years before the advent of argriculture and Starbucks and the city-state. Perhaps the people wanting this modern construct are the uninformed. I see it as a temporary human construct, and it just may not be able to sustain itself for long. What I find weird are the people who talk lovingly of life in the modern era with sprawl, overpopulation and all the rest.

Montana AT05

11-20-2009, 16:01

These are your opinions only, especially the skyscraper quote. You might have forgotten that modern anatomical humans have been living in a tribal, primitive state for around 190,000 years before the advent of argriculture and Starbucks and the city-state. Perhaps the people wanting this modern construct are the uninformed. I see it as a temporary human construct, and it just may not be able to sustain itself for long. What I find weird are the people who talk lovingly of life in the modern era with sprawl, overpopulation and all the rest.

Tipi, I see you've attended University and had circle-the-chair sessions with Anthropology and Social Science professors. Perhaps Hegel, Heiddegger, Faust, Kant, Wilentz, and Zinn made appearances. Your use of the word construct gave you away--just as my use of Objectivist philosophy gives me away.

This thread is about choosing what YOU want in life, not tearing down the what YOU cannot or choose not to have. The former is good, the latter is envy which leads to the destruction of what you envy.

Tipi, if you want to be "tribal" by all means be so. But leave the rest of us poor misinformed (yet curisouly prosperous and happy) people out of it. As for me, I'll opt for the modern "construct" over a nostalgia driven desire for "tribal" life, any day.

I realize that Kevin Costner was a romantic hero to many in Dances With Wolves, but what you didn't see were the ticks, the bed bugs and the fleas that festered and fed inside the dark and smokey Tee Pee

Tribal always sounds wonderful in the classroom or on the movie screen. And tribal is fun for the short duration of a thru--after which we are assured a world of the modern. As for me, I'll take modern health care and services for 1000 Alex. And, as I enjoy, appreciate and help to make that life possible, I will also enjoy he outdoors--the simple--the austere.

But again, back on topic, sbhikes raised a good point--that being the delineation between excess and austerity. In that, she and I agree. In the disdain of material and financial prosperity, she and I part ways.

And in the end, if you did away with this horrible modern construct...what would you have to define yourself? Who would make your trails? Who would make your back packs? Who would pick you up as you hitched along the trail? Who would ensure the grocery stores shelves were stocked? Who would be your audience while you castigated the lifes of the uninformed?

The life of a uninformed individual is one of precarious balance between the maintenance of a cherished minority status while at the same time insisting everyone be exactly like them without the slightest sense of irony.

DrRichardCranium

11-20-2009, 16:24

"What I find weird are the people who talk lovingly of life in the modern era with sprawl, overpopulation and all the rest."

Not weird at all from my perspective. I'm actually very thankful I live in the modern era, compared to any other time period. I consider myself phenomenally lucky.

Brian (aka Skippy)

11-20-2009, 17:05

The life of a uninformed individual is one of precarious balance between the maintenance of a cherished minority status while at the same time insisting everyone be exactly like them without the slightest sense of irony.

Montana, you're entertaining! I hope to find characters like you on the trail.

Billions of years of evolution squandered under florescent lighting, air conditioning, and "So You Think You Can Dance" reruns.

Chuck Palahniuk (Haunted) -

“Every breath you take is because something has died. Something or someone lived and died so you could have this life. This mountain of dead, they lift you into daylight. Will the effort and energy and momentum of their lives...How will it find you? How will you enjoy their gift? Leather shoes and fried chicken and dead soldiers are only a tragedy if you waste their gift sitting in front of the television. Or stuck in traffic. Or stranded at some airport. How will you show all the creatures of history? How will you show their birth and work and death were worthwhile?"

Brian (aka Skippy)

11-20-2009, 17:10

florescent

fluorescent

Montana AT05

11-20-2009, 17:47

Brian, right back at ya, heh. Nice line on squandered evolution, though I would substitute the word progress for evolution, since evolution is an unproven theory. <-- thread!

I like debates. And as a free-market espousing conservative (note the abscence of Republican) on trail, I usually find myself surrounded by uhh....self-styled tolerant, open-minded induhviduals who, upon discovering that I don't think George Bush is the root of all evil, proceed to call me a hater of nature.

Ya, it;s true. I hate mosquitoes, ticks, excessive humidity, those dang inch worms that dangle from tree branches, black flies (<--- racist), and all sorts of other natural things.

But I am off topic and trending towards other, more appropriate boards here at WB, so my apologies.

And hey, who the heck can spell Florescent...err Floure...err ahh heck.

sbhikes

11-20-2009, 23:31

Frozen wages might be better than what's going on now. Involuntary 40% pay cut in my family for one of us. Add to that the extra $$ they keep taking away in benefits and the fact that the poor man is working almost 24 hours a day (he actually gets up in the middle of the night to attend meetings on the telephone) and he's making less than half of what he used to. I think if they'd frozen his wages a few years ago, things would have been better than they are now.

I have been outside the US to places much poorer than here and the thing that really struck me was how content people are elsewhere. And when I returned to the US, it struck me how big and shiny all our stuff is and how unhappy people are here. It's a beautiful country if you like nature, but I don't really like the culture here much. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Doooglas

11-21-2009, 06:29

Reading this thread confirms my escape.
The Empire is an Idiocracy and a total failure.
You aint seen nuthin yet !

To the original poster.
Hit the trail !

Karrmer

11-21-2009, 15:55

I agree that an education is worth it. But I think that people should learn that for themselves otherwise they won't appreciate it.

I went to the university at the age of 24 after I realized I would never make more than minimum wage. I paid my own way and was able to qualify for grants because my parents' incomes didn't count. I enjoyed my education because I did it for me, not to please my parents. I had actually lived life before I went and was able to understand the things I was learning better because of my life experience.

So, I think it's ok if young people want to spend some time having adventures. But they should keep that door open to education. It is important. Don't close the education door with stupid debt or getting married or anything like that. I had to pay off an alcoholic ex-husband's credit card debt before I could afford college (he became an ex after I paid off the debt and went to college).

I only have a high school diploma and I'm 24 years old making about $80k a year. Two of my fellow classmates are employed with me as well, and have been since we were 19.

This isn't some mystical job either, it's pretty simple and available in ample quantities anywhere in the country. Just saying that a college degree is by no means necessary to make more than minimum wage if you have even a small bit of intelligence/skill/talent. Employment is everywhere.

ps. work sucks, planning to quit soon and become a bum ;)

sbhikes

11-21-2009, 22:45

Lizaoreo

11-22-2009, 22:01

Maybe you got a good $80k a year job, but it's still a good idea to at least leave the door open to college. Even an $80k a year job won't be half as good if you've got a ton of debt or an alcoholic spouse running up the credit cards. And what if you lose that job and can't find another in that industry? You might end up going to college in some way or another anyway.

I have to speak up and agree there. Not having a degree has cost my parents a lot. My dad worked for IBM and was laid off about 2 years ago (right when everything started going downhill). He's had a ton of trouble finding any job now even though he was making very good money in a very good position at IBM. The problem was, it was pretty specialized and very few places have a job like that, so he's having to go around and move from temp job to temp job. We only made it through the past 2 years because they saved well and lived pretty much within their means. Now however, savings is gone, my dad has had a stroke and can't work and can't seem to qualify for disability, and they're getting ready to declare bankruptcy and move to a cheaper place.

The point is, if he had gotten a degree, everything would have gone a lot smoother, IBM may have even just moved him to a different position. Degrees may not be necessary in some fields, but in fields like my dad's, Information Technology, they help a lot. I'm starting to work on my Bach in IT. In other fields like the medical field, they are vital (thank goodness). Medical is another great field to get into if you want to travel, my wife is going into it now for an LPN and then an RN and we plan on possibly traveling after she gets her degree. With an RN you can volunteer all over the world and travel a lot.

Bear Bag

11-24-2009, 01:26

I always liked what Robert Service, the bard of the Yukon, had to say on the subject:

The Men Who Don't Fit In

There’s a race of men that don’t fit in,
A race that can’t stay still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
And they roam the world at will.
They range the field and they rove the flood,
And they climb the mountain’s crest;
Theirs is the curse of the gypsy blood,
And they don’t know how to rest.

If they just went straight they might go far;
They are strong and brave and true;
But they’re always tired of the things that are,
And they want the strange and new.
They say: “Could I find my proper groove,
What a deep mark I would make!”
So they chop and change, and each fresh move
Is only a fresh mistake.

And each forgets, as he strips and runs
With a brilliant, fitful pace,
It’s the steady, quiet, plodding ones
Who win in the lifelong race.
And each forgets that his youth has fled,
Forgets that his prime is past,
Till he stands one day, with a hope that’s dead,
In the glare of the truth at last.

He has failed, he has failed; he has missed his chance;
He has just done things by half.
Life’s been a jolly good joke on him,
And now is the time to laugh.
Ha, ha! He is one of the Legion Lost;
He was never meant to win;
He’s a rolling stone, and it’s bred in the bone;
He’s a man who won’t fit in.