View Full Version : Pack recommendation sought
In August, I completed a 104 mile solo hike on Isle Royale National Park (located in Lake Superior). I used a GoLite Pinnacle backpack (weight 1 lb 10 oz). I liked the pack well enough, but the hip belt is mostly used to provide a little bit of pack stability. The hip belt does not bear much of the weight. Thus, most of the weight is carried in the shoulders. This is fine for trips that last only 2-3 days. It is not so great for longer trips with limited (or no) resupply available.
My base weight for everything (prior to food and water) is about 15 lbs. That includes the weight of the pack.
For my multi-day trips, I think I would like to get a pack that carries a little less of the weight in the shoulders and more weight on the hips. I would still like the pack to be as light as possible. (However, I would be willing to go up to 3 or 4 pounds--IF I ABSOLUTELY HAD TO. But, I would really rather not).
What pack would you folks recommend? (In about 2 years I want to do an AT thru hike--if that will affect anyone's recommendation).
Osprey might be a good option I like my older Atmos 50 but the GoLite Pinnacle is 72 liters. The main thing needed to make the hipbelt cary the load is a structure/frame to the pack and properly adjusted load lifters so the shoulder straps keep the pack comfortably against your back.
skinewmexico
11-16-2009, 02:05
ULA Circuit. If you really need the volume of a Pinnacle, maybe a ULA Catalyst. If you cut a piece of Coroplast the same size at the back pad on your Pinnacle, it will make the hip belt work, assuming the pack is compressed tightly.
In August, I completed a 104 mile solo hike on Isle Royale National Park (located in Lake Superior).
You saw a lot of IRNP if you did 104 miles! Great place isn't it?
I used a GoLite Pinnacle backpack (weight 1 lb 10 oz). I liked the pack well enough, but the hip belt is mostly used to provide a little bit of pack stability. The hip belt does not bear much of the weight. Thus, most of the weight is carried in the shoulders. This is fine for trips that last only 2-3 days. It is not so great for longer trips with limited (or no) resupply available.
You hit the nail right on the head! I used the Jam 2, which has similar hip belt wings to the Pinnacle, for the PCT for a few hundred miles and realized the same thing. Even with my sub 10 lb base wt. I felt too much wt. was on my shoulders. There was very lttle wt transfer to the hips. The shoulder straps started to eat into my shoulders and chest. This ocurred even while hauling less than 20 lbs total and having a stiffened framesheet in the form a partially inflated sleep pad. The Jam 2 doesn't have a framesheet. GoLite isn't the only UL pack manufacturer that utilizes these types of similar hipbelt wings though. I've come to realize, just like you, that on a longer hike or when carrying even a light wt kit I'm not comfortable or at my hiking best with packs that require almost all the wt to be carried by my shoulders.
My base weight for everything (prior to food and water) is about 15 lbs. That includes the weight of the pack.
For my multi-day trips, I think I would like to get a pack that carries a little less of the weight in the shoulders and more weight on the hips. I would still like the pack to be as light as possible. (However, I would be willing to go up to 3 or 4 pounds--IF I ABSOLUTELY HAD TO. But, I would really rather not).
What pack would you folks recommend? (In about 2 years I want to do an AT thru hike--if that will affect anyone's recommendation).
There are lots of choices for you especially considering you are willing to up the wt of your backpack. I'm sure lots of other here on WB will recommend all sorts of packs in your required range, but if you want to avoid the problems you had with the Pinnacle your primary concern should be to find a pack that transfers more of the wt to your hips. And, that may require you to get a pack that has a more conventional hipbelt. Fortunately, almost all packs do this and have more of a hipbelt than the Pinnacle.
My solution was to go with the ULA Conduit. It has/had a more substantial hip belt and did a better job of transfering more of the wt to my hips than the Jam2. I was very happy with my decision.
Doooglas
11-16-2009, 03:20
Mystery Ranch Trance XXX.:cool:
I know a guide that wears one and I've worn his for a few hours.It absolutely rocks.
These are real packs. Not what the nitwits at backpacker mag shove down your throat.
If your wallet can't handle the Dana/Mystery Ranch get a Granite Gear Vapor.
I have a friend that did the AT twice with one. I bought the Vapor trail for a friend. Great stuff.
2 years? Save for the MR:)
If I were going to do the Appalachian Autobahn thats what I would buy.
Matter of fact you could have it made in $pectra to $ave even more weight since this is a REAL pack factory, they'll do it your way..
The packs I wear are for packing heavy off trail. A DG3 Crossfire and a newly ordered Rivendell Jensen jumbo.
I know. You never heard of any of this stuff >LOL:D:rolleyes::cool::cool::cool:
stranger
11-16-2009, 03:22
As someone has already stated, the hipbelt has nothing to do with the amount of weight on your hips. The internal suspension of the pack is what will transfer the weight onto your hips...or shoulders.
Packs are very personal, so be weary of comments like "I got this and love it" because that's like someone saying "I love eating cheeze with mustard" - doesn't mean you are going to enjoy it!
Generally speaking, in this day and age, there are many good options out there that can both support a moderate load (20-35lbs) and still come in under 4lbs, some under 3lbs.
I would highly recommend looking at the following pack companies:
- Gregory (Z series)
- Osprey (Aether, Atmos series)
- Granite Gear (Nimbus series)
Alot of people like ULA, and I've owned one in the past and was (initially)fairly impressed for such a small, and resource limited, pack manufacturer. While their features and weights are brilliant, I've found their hipbelts and shoulder harness to be cut quite poorly so make sure you get one on your back loaded with weight before making that decision.
TimeSnake
11-16-2009, 07:24
Any ULA pack you would probably love, Circuit or Catalyst! Ive seen a Catalyst make it through 2 thru hikes, AT and PCT, same pack. I as well have brought one all the way through one of our fine countries long distance trails.
I will also recommend ULA. Best bet, call Brian (the owner) and discuss your experience and concerns. Trust what he recommends, he's very good people and will do right by you. ULA packs are light, not ultralight. They will hold up well for the vast majority of hikers.
At 2 pounds and a smidgeon more, the ULA Circuit sounds like the best option. At just shy of 3 pounds, I've toted a little over 35 pounds in my ULA Catalyst and still been happy. You won't beat ULA for excellent, no-nonsense, lighter-than-usual packs that carry comfortably.
garlic08
11-16-2009, 10:20
At a 15 lb base weight, you're at the borderline for a frameless pack, for sure. I didn't go frameless until I got a few pounds below that.
A couple of comments before you get a heavier pack, though: What about pack fit? I don't know about GoLite, but my favorite pack manufacturer, Gossamer Gear, offers their packs in three different sizes and I had to return my first one to get the right size. It made a lot of difference in comfort for me, like where the hip belt rode.
Also, consider that the AT can be hiked with a pretty light load. I only carried 100 miles of food a few times, and all were optional, to avoid hitching or an unwanted stop off trail. In the mid-Atlantic and parts of New England, you might see a diner nearly every day. Water is all over the place. I carried more than one liter only a few times, and some of those were only a mile or two, for a planned dry camp away from the crowds. I never carried more than 20 pounds including food and water, even entering the 100 mile wilderness. The frameless pack was perfect for that.
Good luck with finding the right pack. I've heard nothing but great things about ULA, the company and the products.
white_russian
11-16-2009, 10:24
Mystery Ranch Trance XXX.:cool:
I know a guide that wears one and I've worn his for a few hours.It absolutely rocks.
These are real packs. Not what the nitwits at backpacker mag shove down your throat.
If your wallet can't handle the Dana/Mystery Ranch get a Granite Gear Vapor.
I have a friend that did the AT twice with one. I bought the Vapor trail for a friend. Great stuff.
2 years? Save for the MR:)
If I were going to do the Appalachian Autobahn thats what I would buy.
Matter of fact you could have it made in $pectra to $ave even more weight since this is a REAL pack factory, they'll do it your way..
The packs I wear are for packing heavy off trail. A DG3 Crossfire and a newly ordered Rivendell Jensen jumbo.
I know. You never heard of any of this stuff >LOL:D:rolleyes::cool::cool::cool:
I got to agree with you. I have a Dana Design and could not be happier. It may be a lot more weight than some of these flimsy packs, but I don't have to ever worry about the load ever feeling uncomfortable. I have put about 80 lbs in my 3200ci Dana pack a couple of times and it still feels great. You can carry a beefy pack and always be comfortable or cry about every ounce while you cry about your back hurting.
I'll also give a thumbs up to ULA. For the lighter load the OP stated, A Circuit seems perfect.
.......Brian (the owner)....... Not anymore, ULA was sold last month. Didn't go to one of those giant conglomerates that turn everything to corporate crap, but sold nonetheless. Intel on BPL is that the folks who bought it are carrying forth with Brian's business model and ideals. They did, however, halt production of the Amigo Pro gravity filter. :(
Kerosene
11-16-2009, 11:16
I've been eyeing the ULA Circuit, and I really like the ULA design. At your base weight, the Circuit would probably work best for summer hiking. I use a Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone today (3 lbs.), which provides an ability to carry 35-40 pounds, but I rarely carry more than 26, which feels very, very good. You might also take a look at the GG Vapor Trail (2 lbs) which a lot of thru-hikers utilize.
FamilyGuy
11-16-2009, 11:59
I would second the ULA Circuit recommendation. Leave the frameless pack in the closet - they are really not good at carrying. Doable yes, but never as comfortable as a comparative framed pack with weights over 15 pounds or so and long distance days.
I would also second the MR Trance. Removing the top pocket puts you under 4 pounds and enough suspension to not feel 40lb loads. Too heavy? Well, imagine that if 40 lbs feels good - 25 lbs is going to feel sublime.
TheChamp
11-16-2009, 18:15
Another plug for the ULA Circuit...good for up to 35 lbs and really comfortable in the 20-30 range. Nice hipbelt pockets, catch-all pocket is extremely useful, and it's still very durable.
As someone has already stated, the hipbelt has nothing to do with the amount of weight on your hips. The internal suspension of the pack is what will transfer the weight onto your hips...or shoulders. -Stranger
I think you are only half right Stranger. I don't think the internal suspension of a pack has all that great of a signicance in transferring wt to the shoulders. I think the type of hipbelt a pack employs has a lot to do with how much wt can comfortably be transferred to the hips which is where most of the wt in conventional internal frame packs place it. Yes, the internal suspension, whether it be stays or some other kind of internal framesheet or even a frameless pack that employs a virtual framesheet, like a rolled or folded sleeping pad is the most important factor in transfering load to your hips I find it does little good if the hipbelt is a flimsy piece of fabric or webbing that doesn't sufficiently bear at least some of the transferred wt. I find this can sometimes be a problem for larger volumed UL packs, regardless of whether they have a built in internal suspension or employ a virtual framesheet, that are heavily loaded near their max carrying wt where flimsy fabric hipbelt wings or a minimal hipbelt is still used. This is compounded on longer treks. In all fairness to GoLite, that's why they say the Pinnacle and Jam2 are designed for higher volume(bulkier loads) that are still light to UL in wt. The idea is that even though these packs are higher volumed they still are designed to be most comfortably used with light to UL loads. Don't overwt. them for long periods or they might start feeling very uncomfortable or self destruct!
Some UL pack manufacturers that have fabric hipbelt wings or just a webbing belt to keep the pack from bouncing around from side to side ride higher on the hips and this works for some hikers with light loads because the bottom sides of the pack actually rest high on or near the top of the hips when the hipbelt wings or webbing belt is cinched down firmly. Wt transfer to the hips is achieved this way and is not as critical because, again, it is assumed the wearer is hauling an UL load. That's why IMO I would only use a pack with flimsy fabric hipbelt wings or just a webbing belt when hauling UL loads(less than 15-20 lbs) or on shorter treks. I know some may be able to comfotably trek with all or almost all of their pack wt on their shoulders for long distances or when hauling 20 lbs or more for extended periods but I and the OP don't seem to belong to that group.
I also like Garlic's suggestions:
At a 15 lb base weight, you're at the borderline for a frameless pack, for sure. I didn't go frameless until I got a few pounds below that.
And:
A couple of comments before you get a heavier pack, though: What about pack fit? I don't know about GoLite, but my favorite pack manufacturer, Gossamer Gear, offers their packs in three different sizes and I had to return my first one to get the right size. ***It made a lot of difference in comfort for me, like where the hip belt rode.***
To add to Garlic's comments it could be that the OP has a pack that doesn't fit properly. For example, if the hipbelt sloshes around too high or low on the hips or doesn't fit on the hips properly or the hipbelt isn't firmly cinched down to ride on the hips than a great deal of the load is going to wind up bouncing around on the shoulders. An improper fit can certainly lead to sore shoulders and it's only compounded by any of the other things that were previously mentioned!
If the OP is seeking a pack around 4lbs or lighter that has an internal suspension that does a good job of transferring wt to the hips and has a hipbelt better able to accept the transfer of wt. to the hips and is in the same ballpark as far as volume as the Pinnacle he might want too indeed consider some packs made by Granite Gear, Osprey, Gossamer Gear, ULA. or even other models made by GoLite.
MintakaCat
11-16-2009, 21:49
Not anymore, ULA was sold last month. Didn't go to one of those giant conglomerates that turn everything to corporate crap, but sold nonetheless. Intel on BPL is that the folks who bought it are carrying forth with Brian's business model and ideals.
I heard that Brian will work with the new owners for one year to oversee the transistion. I was at Mountain Crossings yesterday and they only had small ULA packs. They said they hope to get the larger packs within the next few months.
I heard that Brian will work with the new owners for one year to oversee the transistion. I was at Mountain Crossings yesterday and they only had small ULA packs. They said they hope to get the larger packs within the next few months.
Any pack in the ULA lineup can be purchased directly from ULA on their website. They are producing packs and shipping daily.
MintakaCat
11-16-2009, 22:01
Any pack in the ULA lineup can be purchased directly from ULA on their website. They are producing packs and shipping daily.
I talked to the folks at Mountain Crossings yesterday and they said otherwise. I'm just telling you what they told me.
stranger
11-19-2009, 03:49
To respond to Dogwood:
You say I'm half correct when I say the hipbelt has nothing to do with transferring weight to your hips - then continue to talk about what's the use in having that weight transferred to your hips if the hipbelt cannot support that weight. I'm not really seeing the direct correlation.
Fact: Hipbelts do not transfer weight
I do see your point however, if the hipbelt is not substantial then it will sag and perform poorly - but this has nothing to do with the transferring of weight. The weight transfer comes from the packs suspension, and it ends up (hopefully) on the hips.
If the hipbelt is sagging, that's another story
Doooglas
11-22-2009, 13:51
I got to agree with you. I have a Dana Design and could not be happier. It may be a lot more weight than some of these flimsy packs, but I don't have to ever worry about the load ever feeling uncomfortable. I have put about 80 lbs in my 3200ci Dana pack a couple of times and it still feels great. You can carry a beefy pack and always be comfortable or cry about every ounce while you cry about your back hurting.
Well. If you deal with people who chop their tooth brush in half........
FamilyGuy
11-22-2009, 14:27
To respond to Dogwood:
You say I'm half correct when I say the hipbelt has nothing to do with transferring weight to your hips - then continue to talk about what's the use in having that weight transferred to your hips if the hipbelt cannot support that weight. I'm not really seeing the direct correlation.
Fact: Hipbelts do not transfer weight
I do see your point however, if the hipbelt is not substantial then it will sag and perform poorly - but this has nothing to do with the transferring of weight. The weight transfer comes from the packs suspension, and it ends up (hopefully) on the hips.
If the hipbelt is sagging, that's another story
Yes the suspension transfers weight ALONG the back and places an amount on the hips, but the hip belt then transfers the weigh through out the hips. This is why a taller (not necessarily width) belt will always work better than a narrow belt and why a framed pack without a hipbelt will transfer...nothing.
I suggest discussing this fact with Mystery Ranch, ULA, or Dan Mchale.
stranger
11-30-2009, 02:31
Hipbelts support, or hold the weight firmly on the hips. They do not transfer weight, instead they support weight.
The goal of a suspension is to get weight to the hips, the goal of the hipbelt is to support that weight, ALL of that hipbelt, so yes, the longer the hipbelt the more weight is distributed along it's length (this is not design but simply inherant because the hipbelt is the end point), but what get's the weight to the hips is not the hipbelt.
Can't speak for ULA, but you could also add Wayne Gregory to your list as far as my experiences with pack makers go...
Stranger, you, FamilyGuy, and myself are seeing much the same thing but saying a some of it differently, that's all.
Stranger, you probably said it most succintly when you said, "Hipbelts support, or hold the weight firmly on the hips. They do not transfer weight, instead they support weight.."
I'm only adding that if the hipbelts don't accept or carry that wt around or distribute it to the hips what use is having all that wt transferred there? That is what was happening with the GoLite Jam 2 when I carried 25 lbs in it! For me, and it what may be the OP, there isn't enough wt being transferred to the hips with the Jam 2! And, my pt being, is that I don't think the Jam 2 has a very substantial hipbelt! It has hipbelt wings- flimsy pieces of fabric!
nitewalker
11-30-2009, 08:02
you should be able to loosen the shoulder straps all the way, tighten the hip belt and the weight should be HELD UP BY THE HIPBELT. it souds like the belt is supporting the backpack. thus transfering weight to the hips. the stronger and more supportive the pack is made makes the transition easier. ultralite packs will always have more transition issues than those heavier packs we call cadillacs.....my two cents and im sure there is more to it. does your pack actually fit your body type??
nitewalker
11-30-2009, 08:06
i forgot to put in my plug for the granite gear vapor trail. the best pack goin for up to 30lbs max...after that you risk pack stability unless you stuff it with perfection and keep it organized and tight.....i have carried up to 35lbs on day one with no issues and gradually lighten the load as the days go by....
FamilyGuy
11-30-2009, 11:32
Hipbelts support, or hold the weight firmly on the hips. They do not transfer weight, instead they support weight.
The goal of a suspension is to get weight to the hips, the goal of the hipbelt is to support that weight, ALL of that hipbelt, so yes, the longer the hipbelt the more weight is distributed along it's length (this is not design but simply inherant because the hipbelt is the end point), but what get's the weight to the hips is not the hipbelt.
Can't speak for ULA, but you could also add Wayne Gregory to your list as far as my experiences with pack makers go...
We are saying the same thing.
Raul Perez
12-03-2009, 15:36
Just throwing it out there but the REI Flash 50 or 65 are cheap, well made, and you can take the frame and top pouch off to reduce the weight even more.
XCskiNYC
12-03-2009, 17:48
There's the Golite Quest, $175.
I currently have one in the medium size.
Golite is very good at keeping the pack light and this pack is a quite modest weight considering that it has a frame and fairly sturdy hip belt.
They claim weight of right about 3 lbs and the actual weight is an ounce or so under what they claim (compare to Granite Gear Meridian Vapor, very nice suspension and overall design but mfr. claims 3#8 while my scale said 4#0).
Golite uses lightweight cloth for most of the pack. They use very small snaps/buckles. The padded section of the hip belt is of a fairly small area and triangular. The nylon belt that comes out of the hip belt is quite narrow and, again, uses relatively small snaps/buckles.
There's a nice large zipped pocket on the back of the pack. There are two ice-axe loops.
There are no attachment points or straps, either on the top or bottom of the pack, for attaching extra gear (such as a sleeping pad), but you could use the ice-axe loops for this. Likewise, you could put something like a sleeping pad between the top lid (which has a zipper and is removable) and the top of the pack.
It really amazes me that any pack maker neglects to at least put the little nylon belt loops on the lids of their packs. This adds maybe 5 grams to the pack weight while making the pack much more versatile and useful. But I guess these features are a little like food for a dieter. A few calories here and a few calories there and pretty soon you're talking about jogging a few more miles every day.
If holding a sleeping pad between the top of the main pack bag on the Quest and the lid, you'll hit one of the drawbacks: because of the light construction, the main bag of the pack will depend on being full of gear in order to have solid structure.
I am probably going to return the Quest. I do like the way Golite has been very serious about keeping the pack light but I don't like the lack of options for attaching gear externally and also I'm not happy with the lack of structure of the main bag itself.
But it's an option. I'd at least take a look at one if you get a chance before making your purchase.
Two others you might take a look at:
The REI Flash 65, $150. Just from the specs and online info, this looks like a well-designed, basic pack. The owner reviews are pretty positive. You can remove the stays and the lid on this pack, bringing it down from a 3-lb pack to a 2-lb pack.
http://www.rei.com/product/778468
Osprey Exos 58, $220. Again, my info on this is just from specs and the REI owner's reviews. The company seems to have a good reputation here and many retailers carry this line. The weight on the pack, 2#8, is very light considering the carrying space (3,500 cubic inches). The overall design looks good though, like the Golite Quest, the main bag itself doesn't seem to have much structure without being filled with gear.
I have not used the suspension on this pack, which includes a mesh back, but it looks like it might be very nice for warm weather use. It might get rid of that nasty feeling when you put a pack back on after sweating in warm weather and foam back pad feels freezing cold.
http://www.rei.com/product/780218
Have you thought of the Aarn Bodypacks? One of the main concepts is taking the weight off the shoulders and back, and putting it on the hips. Some of the weight is transferred to the front using Balance Pockets that have a vertical stay that slide into holsters on the hip belt. The packs tend to weigh a little more, but the weight gets carried a little better/easier, in my opinion. Featherlite Freedom and Peak Aspiration are about 4.5 lbs with the balance pockets.
Thanks to everyone who has already made comments (and to those who might still make a comment). It is greatly appreciated. You have given me many options to consider.
NOTE: My "base weight" was so heavy on this hike due to the somewhat unique nature of the trip. It was a "shake down" hike--so I was testing some different things. Thus, I had some duplicate kinds of items. On this island, the National Park Service highly recommends that you both filter AND chemically treat the water. Thus, I packed more water stuff than usual. It was a 10 day trip where temps could theoretically range from the low 30s to almost 90 degrees. So, the clothing list was a bit "heavy". It was also my first hike on this island--and I had to trust other people's advice for what you MUST take. I discovered that I don't agree with the "must" take lists. If I took this same hike again, I could easily cut my base weight by at least a few pounds.
Kelty packs have never let me down, yet everyone today wants to go with the new packs/companies. The Kelty I took this year, to Isle Royale[8/22/09-9/11/09], was an internal frame that comes in under 3 lbs.; I bought it off of ebay for about $75.
I did 20 days on the Isle solo[starting from Rock Harbor camp], with a 10-day mail drop of food/supplies picked-up at Windego. I also had extra things, that I now realize I can pare from my kit, but the Kelty easily handled the 50 lbs. that the scale tipped out at after resupply at Windigo.
The main reason, I added a tump strap to my set-up, that definately made the difference in comfort; I could use it to transfer weight from shoulders or waist, to neck muscles or any combination of the three. I have also used this type of tump set-up on my external framed Kelty with the same positive results. I believe the use of a tump would/could be of benefit to most packs; and they are relatively easy to retro-fit or adapt to most situations/packs.
Getting the weight from your shoulders, for brief periods of time, to other weight bearing areas have helped me with some vicious weights and grueling situations. It works, give it a try. The sherpas of Nepal know their tump.
And as far as packs go, Kelty is still the best.:sun
stranger
12-07-2009, 21:41
Apologies if I'm not reading other's posts correctly - we generally seem to be on the same page.
On this last post however, no one can say what pack is best - that's like saying pizza is the best food, or a size 10 shoe is the best... it simply doesn't work that way.
daylaandjasper
12-18-2009, 18:12
I second taking a look at the Aarn Featherlite Freedom- mine is 3 lbs 12 oz. The bodypack is pretty revolutionary- it carries totally different than a regular pack. I will never carry anything else and I have owned Gregory,Arcteryx, Go Lite,Kelty, Dana Design, Ula and Osprey packs.
I talked to the folks at Mountain Crossings yesterday and they said otherwise. I'm just telling you what they told me.
I ordered a ULA Circuit two weeks ago from their website and received it within days of my order.