$300 Challenge

[SGT Rock]

A good question about going cheap came up on the thread Shoestring Budget (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=55776#post55776). One of the neatest threads I ever saw was called the $300 challenge over on www.thebackpacker.com. Since that thread had been dead a while, I figured I would start a new one here.

The rules - you have $300 to spend on a pack. Temperatures expected should be about 40 degrees F and above - maybe good enough for an AT thru-hike starting in April. The goal is to build a complete pack with clothing, shelter, cookware, first aid, etc. You can assume that certain things may be already owned by a non-backpacker like a toothbrush, spoon, etc, but these weights must be included. The base pack weight (weight without food or water) should be less than 15 pounds.

Who is game?

[SGT Rock]

My entry, as it looks like I am the only one on right now:

Items listed as such: GEAR - ITEM - WEIGHT IN OUNCES - PRICE - LOCATION YOU FIND IT - NOTES IF ANY
1. backpack - Granite Gear Virga Ultralight Backpack - 22.0 - $51.96 - Sierra Trading Post
2. pack liner - 3 garbage bags - 3.0 - Freebie - under your kitchen sink
3. sleeping pad - cheap blue pad - 8.0 - $7.99 - Wal-Mart - Trim to needed size
4. sleeping bag - The North Face Long 40° Sleeping Bag - 38.0 - $47.96 - Sierra Trading Post
5. ground cloth - emergency space blanket - 2.0 - $3.99 - Wal-Mart - Trim to needed size
6. poncho/tarp - Ultralight sil-nylon poncho/tarp - 8.5 - $44.99 - Campmor
7. cord - Colored Mason Twine - 3.0 - $1.50 - Wal-Mart - Trim to needed size
8. Stakes - 6 Aluminum gutter nails - 3.0 - $5.00 - Lowe's
9. socks - nylon dress socks x 3 - 3.0 - $9.96 - Wal-Mart - these may be free if you already have them
10. shoes - Wear your old sneakers for now - 25.0 - Freebie - your closet
11. shorts - nylon swim trunks - 3.5 - $6.96 - Wal-Mart - these may be free if you already have them
12. t-shirt - Terramar® EC2® Short Sleeve Tee - 6.5 - $6.97 - Campmor
13. bandanna - cotton bandanna - 1.0 - $1.00 - a lot of places - these may be free if you already have them
14. long underwear - Dufold - 15.5 - $15.93 - Campmor
15. insulated jacker - Military Field Jacket Liners - 11.0 - $5.00 - Army Surplus Store - Warmer, lighter, and more compressible than fleece
16. insulated pants - Military Field Pants Liners - 9.3 - $5.00 - Army Surplus Store - Warmer, lighter, and more compressible than fleece
17. nylon pants - nylon athletic pants - 6.0 - $7.86 - Wal-Mart - you may want to rip out the liners on some models
18. scarf - fleece scarf - 1.5 - $4.00 - Wal-Mart - these may be free if you already have them
19. knit hat - wool cap - 2.0 - $6.50 - Wal-Mart - these may be free if you already have them
20. gloves - silkskins silk glove liners - 3.4 - $4.97 - Campmor - these may be free if you already have them
21. warm socks - Diadora Trekking Socks - 2.0 - $5.97 - Campmor - these may be free if you already have them
22. pot - Wal Mart Grease Pot - 4.0 - $6.00 - Wal-Mart - foil lid
23. stove - Soda Can Stove - 1.0 - Freebie - trash make it yourself
24. fuel bottle - Soda bottle - 1.0 - Freebie - trash make it yourself
25. lighter - Bic type lighter - 0.5 - $1.00 - Wal-Mart - get the 1/2 sized
26. spoon - kitchen spoon - 0.5 - Freebie - kitchen drawer
27. iodine - Coolands Drinking Water Tablets - 1.0 - $4.99 - Wal-Mart
28. water bottles - 2 1QT Gatorade bottles - 3.0 - Freebie - trash
29. toilet paper - 60 sheets - 1.0 - Freebie - bathroom
30. zip locks - 6-1 gallon zip lock type bags - 3.0 - $3.00 - Grocery store - these may be free if you already have them
31. pack towel - Lightload towel - 0.5 - $5.49 - Campmor
32. hand sanitizer - 1 ounce bottle alcohol base - 1.2 - $1.00 - Grocery store
33. tooth brush and paste - regular toothbrush & travel paste - 1.5 - $1.00 - Grocery store - cut down the toothbrush you already have
34. flashlight - LED light - 0.4 - $3.00 - Anti-Gravity Gear
35. Stuff Sacks - 10x20 Campmor stuff sack - 1.8 - $4.99 - Campmor - clothing bag
36. Food Bag - 12x22 Campmor stuff sack - 2.0 - $6.99 - Campmor
37. knife - Wenger Esquire Translucent Knife - 1.5 - $8.97 - Campmor
38. compass - Coghlans Four Function Whistle - 1.6 - $3.99 - Wal-Mart
39. Stove fuel - 12 ounce bottle of HEET - 9.8 - $1.50 - Wal-Mart - yellow bottle
40. first aid kit - make from spare parts - 4.5 - $4.50 - Grocery store - also parts you may already have
41. Cup - Gatorade container - 1.5 - Freebie - trash - make it yourself

PACK WEIGHT = 179.4 oz or 11.2 pounds

CARRIED WEIGHT (CLOTHING AND STUFF IN POCKETS) = 31.9 oz or 2.5 pounds

TOTALS = 218.5 oz or 13.7 pounds From Skin Out (FSO)

TOTAL PRICE = $299.93

PACK WEIGHT WITH 5 DAYS FOOD AND 2 QTS WATER = 25.2 pounds

Food weight assumes 2 pounds food per day.

I was very close on price, but very under on weight. The prices these items are available change from time to time, but it does show it is possible to build a packing list that will work if you shop around. It wouldn't be the most comfortable in the world, I would probably want a better shelter myself. This also didn't include things I consider essential like maps, journal, pen and camera. Those are personal choices that people must make.

[magic_game03]

ok, here it is:

MAIN 4---------------------------------

32 pack (homemade ripstop sil-nylon)
03 pack liner ( .5 mil plastic trash bag ) free
16 tarp (homemade ripstop sil-nylon)
02 two stakes $2
04 ground sheet (tyvek) $5
14 fleece sleeping bag liner (NWT ) $10
10 3/4 sleep pad (ridgerest type) $20
-- ---------
71 oz $37

COOK SET-------------------------------

02 lighter $1
08 aluminum cook pot w/lid (coleman type) $7
02 aluminum foil wind guard free / homemade
02 sm. stainless steel spoon (from home) free / home
01 alcohol stove (homemade cola can type) free / homemade
01 fuel bottle (8 oz plastic cola bottle type) free / home
08 100% alcohol ( gas anti-freeze ) $3
02 food sack (homemade ripstop sil-nylon)
-- --------------
26 oz $11

CLOTHES--------------------------------

04 duofold ss shirt $10
06 duofold ls shirt $15
14 fleece sweater $30
07 shell jacket $30
04* wool socks(wear 1 pr/carry 1pr) $15 (buy in 2 pack)
02 bandanna $1
--**NB 605 shoes $45
--**desert gaiters (homemade ripstop sil-nylon)
--**convertable pants $30
--**synthetic skull cap $3
(or) [depending on my gut feeling]
rain/sun hat
-- ------------
37 oz $179 [darn clothing is expensive]

EXTRAS---------------------------------

01 Iodine (potable aqua brand) $3
04 swiss army knife free / home
03 (2x) 1 liter wt. bottle (plastic cola type) free / home
05 camp shoes $5 (maybe free / home)
05 20 ft 4mm nylon cord $2
05 head lamp $15
06 data book $5
03 duct tape free / home
03 tooth brush & mini travel tooth Paste free / home - $1
02 toilet paper free / home
02 1 gallon ziplock "extra's" storage bag free / home
-- ------------
39 oz $31

$258 (if my math is right)
leaves $42 for ripstop nylon and webbing

this is off the top of my head. it's around 10 pounds now and should be good for 40 degrees and up. I've calculated it to be under $300 most of it is the same as STG rock who i see has nearly the same equipment.

[smokymtnsteve]

heck this is America..work some extra make $$$ buy the gear you want..save some $$$$ up and spend a little ..have a good time.

[SGT Rock]

magic_game03 good list. Making gear could save more money on my list. Like I could have includes homemade backpack that would be about $6-$18 and less than 1 pound - and you don't need a lot of skills. More than one way to skin that cat ;) http://hikinghq.net/gear/rock_ruck.html

Steve, save money on gear, be less connected to the gear - more connected to the hike. Have more money for the ultralight muscle relaxants.

[smokymtnsteve]

my ole down sleeping bag is over 20 years old...

my titanium cook set is over 5 years old...(comes out to something like 15 dollars a year,,,little over a dollar a month..cheap ain't it)

my titanium coffee press is one year old...

my old kelty pack is on it's second rebuild....(me too)

my legs and knee joints are well connected. ;)

as far a my connection to the AT..well wingfoot is a johhny come lately.

who needs $$$ for Ultra-light muscle relaxers... ;)

[magic_game03]

earl shaffer did all this and probably for less than $100. Puts in prespective the difference in goal oriented people. Also, EZ1 makes alot of his gear and the rest is rather unique, all this on top of the fact he's 81 years old. 81 years old, made a homemade tent that weighed just over one pound, that sets up in 2 minutes, and makes me feel foolish for carrying around my 4 lb NF canyonlands tent(its bigger, nicer design,and looks wicked cool). what a great charcter.

hey, does anyone know if EZ1 is still on, off, or finished?

[hustler]

I saw EZ1 and all of his light weight gear in Maine, this would have been around July 1st or so. He was about to head south to finish up some sections down there that he skipped because of cold. Then he will head north again (probably already has) and finish up.

[magic_game03]

many thanks for the update, hustler.

[SGT Rock]

Anyone else have some entries besides Magic and me? I thought there would be a little more interest in this.

[orangebug]

Not from me. I will occasionally shop the Army/Navy store, Tuesday Morning, Big Lots, Salvation Army, yard sales and such - but more to help a newbie. It is real tough to do it for yourself once you've spent a few K's on gear, with most of it in the gear closet.

Bill....

[ga>me>ak]

Still figuring out my setup, so I can't reply.......yet :-?

[SGT Rock]

No rush ;) take your time. It might take a while to build a really good list anyway if you do this in real life. Mine was done off the top of my head and hitting some good site I know about.

By the way, if you are trying to save some money building a gear list for yourself for this exercise or real hiking, here are some excellent sites to do it cheap:

www.sierratradingpost.com - great deals on closing out gear from various places.
www.campmor.com - always a great place to find deals on camping gear
www.rei.com/outlet/index.html - REI's clearance site for gear
www.walmart.com - good place that everyone can go to t get the basics
www.fatiguesarmynavy.com - if you don't have a surplus store near you

[kncats]

I think it's not so much that no one has anything to add, but for me anyway you already pretty well covered it. I'd just add a couple other places to check out that haven't been mentioned yet:

www.ebay.com (http://www.ebay.com) – CAVEAT EMPTOR!!! That being said. You can pick up some really great deals on equipment here, especially used stuff. Also, many smaller outfitters that can't afford a web presense of their own can and do set up shop here. Outfitters that pick up the last of the previous year's model frequently put them up for sale here. But regardless of whether you're buying from a dealer or a private individual be sure you know what you're actually purchasing. Watch out for off name brands advertised as “like” Mountainsmith, Gregory or whatever. A zero degree sleeping bag for $18 that sounds too good to be true almost definitely is. I picked up a used Mountainsmith pack four years ago for $70 that retailed new for $200 and it's still going strong.

www.northernmountain.com (http://www.northernmountain.com/) – The Killer Deals section can save you up to 80%. Especially good place to look for closeouts on last year's (and earlier) models.

www.mec.ca (http://www.mec.ca/) – Mountain Equipment Co-op in Canada. You don't usually see too much in the way of sales there, but their regular prices are very good. Particulary on their own branded items. Prices are all isted in $Cn, there's a converter to let you know whsat the price is in $US.


Also, keep an eye on your local outfitter. Pretty much all of them will have sales and particularly toward the end of a season they'll be looking to clear out last years models. Larger places like REI, Galyans, etc change their focus as the seasons change. As hiking season winds down they're wanting to move that equipment out to make way for snow season gear. If you keep your eyes open you can snag some good bargains.

[TDale]

I'm glad y'all picked this idea up. I posted a starter list in the one at backpacker. That thread was started in response to another where a man was asking how his wife and he could get started for less than $600.

My main interest in the idea is because a lot of new people could get discouraged by some of the numbers thrown around for some of the premium gear out there. I think my solution for the core equipment was pretty good.

$70 -Integral Design sil-poncho (shelter and raingear) weight 10 oz.
$70 -Golite Breeze packs weight 14 oz.
$8 -Packlite foam pads weigh 8 oz.
$30 -Campmor fleece camp bags weigh 27 oz.
$20 Liberty Mountain Trangia Westwind burner weighs 6.6 oz.
Add antigravitygear's 3-cup non stick pot pot($8/3.8) and tyvek($10/5) and I'm at I'm at $216 and 74.4 ounces.

New people need to know this isn't just a gearhead activity.

Thanks!

[eyahiker]

Sgt Rock, what a great list, comprehensive and a good read. I have learned a lot! And have spent mucho $$$ on xlite gear, will have to dump the bag and reconoiter the whole thing.............

[Jersey Bob]

at least 10 characters

[eyahiker]

Perhaps it's me.....but the whole idea on skimping on the footwear seems like a mistake. Thoughts?

[SGT Rock]

Switching from my expensive Asolo boots to my $35 Nike running shoes was one of the best decisions I ever made.

[eyahiker]

I'll have to try that, have Asolo's myself.......and some merrells, but they're mostly mesh, any trouble with stuff in yours sitting lower on your feet than boots?

[SGT Rock]

I use some mini-gaiters.

[eyahiker]

Hmmmm. Will have to get a pair and try them, only have the tall ones now, a little heavy thought MSR's with the vent......which are great but they cook the salt on your legs.

[SGT Rock]

There was a guy on the trail this year named French Connection. He took a pair of hiking socks and cut the foot part off, then used the leg part as a pair of ultralight giters for keeping the junk out of his shoes.

[Jersey Bob]

at least 10 characters

[eyahiker]

Wow. I'll have to test my merrells one weekend, see how it goes. THanks for the suggestions!:)

[magic_game03]

any of you folks know Ronnie the Israeli? does anybody know about his '02-'03 sobo hike?

I met him and jackblack at little laurel shelter in NC/TN area and he told me about purchasing his footwear. he said campmor was selling some cheap hiking shoe that went on sale for about $15 so he bought 10 pair. from Katahdin to Little Laurel he had only use 4 pair and so the rest he would use on the PCT/CDT.

Talk about cheap!

two more points about cheap foot wear. first, natives all around the world in rugged areas go shoeless. second, boots can be just as problematic as lightweight footwear; I've stubbed more toes lugging around heavy boots at the end of a long day than I could ever imagine in my NB-806's.

[eyahiker]

good points about the native populations of the world. I would love to try to hike barefoot. Really!


Anybody game for a warm weekend next year?

[Peaks]

Perhaps it's me.....but the whole idea on skimping on the footwear seems like a mistake. Thoughts?

I don't know what you mean by skimping. What is important is to find footwear that fits your feet. Just because it's expensive doesn't mean that it's going to be compatable with your feet. And many people get away with some bargin basement footwear. You need to find what works best for you. Take the time for get what is best for your feet.

[SGT Rock]

Sure, I got my $220 Asolo goretex boots for $40 on a clearance sale - would that be considered skimping or just getting a bargin? I mean they are quality boots, and they do fit, but they turn out to be a lot more than I ever need especially on the AT.

On the other hand, I get my running shoes at the Military Clothing Sales store for a good price. they fit really well, dry fast, support my feet exactly how they need to be for high stress, high impact activities, and I don't need camp shoes or town shoes anymore. Am I skimping at this point because they are only $35, or would it be better if I paid $200 for trail runners from REI or something?

I think the trick is to find out what works for you and not worry about traditional gear standards have been for the last couple of decades.

[skysappr]

Backpack, Homemade $7 materials 18oz

Bag, Modified army patrol, $45, 24 oz

Pad, 18x28x3/8 FT Irwin thrift $1, 6 oz

Shelter,Homemade same $7 as pack, 16 oz

Gutter nails, $5, 5oz

2.5 gal ziplock bag, from home, .1 oz

Field jacket liner, issue, 12 oz

Polartec fleece bottoms, issue/modified 8 oz

Nylon rain top, gift from wife, 12 oz

Fleece gloves, $5, 2 oz

Fleece hat homemade from issue pants, 1 oz

Thorlo hiking socks, $5, 2 oz

Coolmax socks, $3.50, 1 oz

NB 485 running shoes, $50, 26 oz

Alcohol “ION” stove, recycables, .1 oz

Kevin S type screen, $1 oven liner, .2 oz

Mirro non stick pot, $6, 6 oz

Kevin S pothandle, $1, 1oz

Gatorade cup(SGT Rock type) Recyclables, 2oz

Lexan spoon (reduced), $2, .1oz

Homemade bear hanger complete, Backpack material scraps, 550 chord from riggers, 4 oz

2 x 2Lt outdoor products bladders, $20, 14oz for pair

Hikers friend gravity filter, 2.5 gal ziplock bag, $16 filter, 8oz

Garrity headlamp and squeeze backup, $17 total, 2.2oz

Tool logic knife set w/red led and other gadgets $18, 2oz

Stansport trecking poles, $38, 20oz





Total’s: $232.5 Oz 192.7

Some items other than base pack weight, shoes treck poles etc

[TDale]

Great list!

[hustler]

Warren Doyle I've heard gave a presentation one year at trail days on how to do a "walmart" hike. I didn't think it could be done until I was shopping at "sprawl-mart" the other day. They had some really cheap and light packs for sale, they also had a 45 degree, 3 pound bag (would have to use compression sack). I was so convinced that you could do this hike, that I am sponsoring one of my friends in 06 to do the elusive walmart hike. I hope to put a list together for you guys but I'm working too many hours each week trying to pay off my debts from my recent thru-hike. I really don't like walmart because they are an evil corporation, but the hike must be done.

[SGT Rock]

Maybe you could get Wal-Mart tos sponsor you LOL!

[magic_game03]

good start Skysappr, I think your list is a bit short though.

toilet paper? (leaves are free and add no weight :) )
lighter or maches?(of course two sticks always works :) )
no gaiters?
do you expect your pack to weigh more than your shelter?
rain cover or inner pack liner for rain storms?
what's the 2.5 gal ziplock for? it's huge couldn't you get away with a 1 gallon
what about maps or companion?
you mention two bladders but you forgot the hose and mouth piece unit weight?
how about shirts, you going shirtless?
you might want to consider one small piece of cotton material like a bandanna, that synthetic stuff sucks for keeping sweat out of your eyes and it doubles as an emergency compression pad for lacerations.
any blister control, maybe ducktape?
tooth paste or mouth wash?(you could get away w/o tooth brush if you use your finger but then you might have to consider disinfectant soap to wash your hands with first)
camp shoes? (it sucks to walk around in wet shoes or barefoot in mud)
2.2 ozs for head lamp? does that include batteries?
how about fuel and fuel bottle?


sorry skysappr, not trying to bugger you out, I just think you may need a little modification.

[SGT Rock]

Bringing this back to the top on request.

[Skyline]

This is a thread I bet Warren Doyle could add something worthwhile to. That guy knows cheap. And he seems proud of it.

[SGT Rock]

Yes, I would love to see Warren post a good cheapo list to this thread.

Posting again to move the thread up. Anyone got any good gear lists that meet the criteria?

[berninbush]

Question..... I'm more or less a newbie at backpacking, but I wonder why I don't see more about Ozark Trails tents? Yeah, I know, they're Walmart brand and the outfitters would turn up their noses... but they're very cheap and not too bad. I've spent some reasonably comfy nights in them, away from bugs and rain, which is all I care about.

Right now I have one tent that is literally a child's toy. It came in a box with a child-size chair and sleeping bag, and it looks like it should never leave the back yard. It's about 5' by 6' and just big enough for me to sit up or lie down. But I can sleep comfortably in there with my 42-lb dog. (In fact, in a previous one that I had the same size, I slept there with my dog and my sister!) And while I don't know the exact weight, it's no big deal to carry. I also have the "Hiker Dome Tent" if I want a little more space... I like that one a lot.

The only really bad Ozark Trails experience I've had was with the new style of "Junior Dome Tent." It claims to be 5' by 6' but the weird shape of the floor barely left me room to lie down, and a basic design flaw meant that the roof accumulated a gallon (no exaggeration!) of water in a rainstorm and leaked like a sieve. :-( I wish they'd left well enough alone with the excellent old design.

Anyway... why does no one ever talk about these tents, even to disparage them? They cost 1/10 as much as the "good" stuff. I think they're at least worth discussing.

[Spock]

SGT,
I asked under your dirtbag thread, but let me ask again here: Can I post a downloadable spreadsheet here? I've got a $140 cheapo gear list that would be, of course, more useful to folks if they could plug in their own stuff. It's in Excell, groups gear categories, summarizes, gives weight and cost subtotals and totals.

[Skidsteer]

Question.....
why does no one ever talk about these tents, even to disparage them? They cost 1/10 as much as the "good" stuff. I think they're at least worth discussing.

From my own perspective...because I've come across these types of tents on trail; abandoned, collapsed, full of rainwater and a blight on the landscape.

They obviously did not perform up to the standards of their owners(slobs and litterbugs as may be)so they, in a fit of disgust, left them to rot.

But I admit I've never tried one for backpacking personally, so I wouldn't mind hearing more about your experiences with them. Anytime I can go cheaper is good so long as it performs. :)

[berninbush]

so I wouldn't mind hearing more about your experiences with them.

:) Ok, I'll tell you two opposite experiences I've had with Ozark tents, and let you decide what you think!

Experience 1: I went car-camping for a week with my parents, brother, and sister at a state park in Tennessee (north of the Smokies). They brought their own tents, and I brought my Ozark Trails Junior Dome Tent (old model) for myself and my dog. We weren't too lucky in our weather that week... it rained every day. I spent a lot of time inside my tent reading. There was some condensation, of course, in the high humidity, but it never leaked a drop. One night during that week, my sister and I took our first stab at back country camping. (It was almost our last... the hike was a disaster... but that's a story for another place!) I took the JDT up a mountain with us and pitched it at the top. Just around sunset, a tremendous thunderstorm rolled in-- heavy rain, wind, lightning, the works. We were on a rather exposed summit, but the little tent stood firm and dry. Did I mention I paid less than $20 for this thing?

Experience 2: Unfortunately, my brave little tent got ruined when I carelessly left it at the mercy of moths and ants on my patio (I had put it out to dry and left it too long). So I trekked back to Walmart and bought a new Junior Dome Tent... but they had changed the design. Instead of the utterly-simple two-pole dome configuration, they had a more complicated arrangement of three poles. I took it car camping for a three-day weekend without ever having opened the box. The first time I set it up and climbed inside, I realized I'd been gypped. The box advertized that it was five feet by six feet and slept 1-2 people, same as the old model, but the floor was *diamond-shaped*. It was five feet at the widest and six feet at the longest, but you could barely fit one short person (me) in there, once less two; my feet were stuck in an acute corner. Even worse, it rained cats and dogs that night (I have terrible luck with weather!) and I woke up in the middle of the night to find my sleeping bag soaked. It wasn't a seam that was leaking. The three-pole configuration meant that there was an unsupported triangle of fabric at the top of the tent with no way to drain. A gallon of water had collected in this space and saturated the fabric, and it was dripping on me. I pushed up to push the water over the poles and relieve the pressure.... and then had to keep doing that all night. Miserable. That tent now resides in a closet, and I might as well throw it away, 'cause I'll never camp with it again. Why, oh why, didn't they keep the old design?

My "toy tent" is like the old model JDT and it's served me well so far, but I haven't had to use it in rain yet, so it hasn't been tested for leaks. Maybe sometime I'll take the garden hose to it and see how it does.

So, here's my thoughts on Ozark Trails tents:
1. Do not under any circumstances buy the new Junior Dome Tent! The next size up, the Hiker's Dome Tent ($30), is great. I own this one too. Or if you're 5'5" or shorter, you can look for the old model JDT.
2. Use seam sealer.
3. Test your tent out close to home or by car-camping before you take it on a back-country trip.
4. If you get a lemon, don't despair; you can buy 10 Ozark Trails tents for what you'd spend on the premium ones, and some of them at least are bound to be good!

[fiddlehead]

My 1st thru hike, i had $700 total, no gear and my girlfriend (who had no money) wanted to go along. And did. We borrowed or made our gear and still made it from Springer to Deleware Water Gap. Most of our money was spent for food. We started with a piece of plastic for shelter but eventually spent $20 and bought a cheap nylon pup tent (this was in '77) What else did we have? cheap sleeping bags, from K-mart (before wal-mart's time) cheap packs from K-mart, and nylon rain ponchos. We borrowed a Svea stove that blew up after about 250 miles so we just built fires. I doubt we spent more than $100 for everything we had.

Gear is highly overrated.

[SGT Rock]

Berninbush, that would make for a good tent review in the gear section. I think the reason most of us avoid those tents is they often don't look well made. I do have one in my basement and have used if for a trip of just me and my daughter, but to be honest I never had any bad weather. Eventually I replaced it with an Peak1 Aries 2 tent which IMO is a great tent for the money. A real sho-nuff 2 person tent that had taken some bad storms (after seam sealing it) without a single leak and seems to ventilate well. At 5 pounds it means a 2.5 pound per person shelter. And I got it for $60 at a clearance store.

[Roland]

SGT,
I asked under your dirtbag thread, but let me ask again here: Can I post a downloadable spreadsheet here? I've got a $140 cheapo gear list that would be, of course, more useful to folks if they could plug in their own stuff. It's in Excell, groups gear categories, summarizes, gives weight and cost subtotals and totals.
I believe it can be posted as an attachment. See the paperclip icon on the toolbar, next time you post a reply.

[kyhipo]

I do it almost evry time i hike!but my base weight is usually 20 pnds.Ky

[Deb]

Berninbush, your post made me laugh out loud.
I still own and use a Junior Dome I bought in Montrose, Colorado in 1997. I have a better tent now, the Eureka Spitfire, but the Junior Dome goes on all my winter trips.
That fact that it's free standing and single wall - you really can't count that tiny cap as a fly - means it is warm in winter; no drafts.
I light a candle in there and that tent is toasty. I've siliconed it and seam-sealed it and stay dry if it rains. Hands down the best $15 I've ever spent on gear.

[hobbit]

just bought a "ranger dome tent" by alpine design at sports athourity for 14 dollars its light and theres room in there for me and my brother but will probably only bring it car camping as we are both hammock dwellers ps everything by alpine design is on sale (30%) at sports athourity (mispelled for sure)

[kyhipo]

Berninbush, your post made me laugh out loud.
I still own and use a Junior Dome I bought in Montrose, Colorado in 1997. I have a better tent now, the Eureka Spitfire, but the Junior Dome goes on all my winter trips.
That fact that it's free standing and single wall - you really can't count that tiny cap as a fly - means it is warm in winter; no drafts.
I light a candle in there and that tent is toasty. I've siliconed it and seam-sealed it and stay dry if it rains. Hands down the best $15 I've ever spent on gear.thats so cool in 99 i had a book bag switched to a rucksack no tent untell i hit conn,I bought a junior dome myself boy I thought I was styling!I had to sleep kitty corner:banana ky

[berninbush]

I bought a junior dome myself boy I thought I was styling!I had to sleep kitty corner

:-D Yeah, if you're taller than 5'5" the Junior Dome may cramp your style a bit. ;-) Sometimes I feel blessed to be only 5'1". I can get away with using some gear meant for kids... lighter and cheaper.

Deb, glad you share my love of the JDT. :-) I'm not a winter camper, but I can imagine it being snug. You're right about the "fly," though. Not really bigger than a couple of dinner napkins. When I got the HDT, I was shocked at how big the fly was! ;-)

Hobbit, that "ranger dome tent" sounds interesting, too! I might have to make a stop there tonight.

[Spock]

SGT,
Yeah, but how do I post an Excell spreadsheet?

[Ewker]

egads, you go by the name Spock and can't upload a spreadsheet :eek: . You will drive the Trekkies insane if they find that out ;)

[Skidsteer]

SGT,
Yeah, but how do I post an Excell spreadsheet?

The paperclip icon on my post toolbar is null. Always has been but since I've never needed to attach a file, I let it pass.

Same for you?

[Spock]

It is illogical to expend resources to search out information when pre-existing exertise is available.

[SGT Rock]

You can send it to my e-mail address and I can upload it.

[wilderness bob]

There are some great ideas posted on this thread thus far. I too try to keep it simple however, a lesson learned. I recommend that when you go the less expensive route, be sure to test your equipment out thoroughly before hitting the trail with it. For example I tried to save a few dollars and bought a less expensive ground pad from Campmore. It worked great while in my tent. When I went "cowboy" I discovered the thing soaked water like a sponge. This would have been a terrible thing to discover at the wrong place and time. Also I recommend a good repair kit be added to your gear (duct tape, strong needle and thread), you can even re-stitch obviously weaker areas before you start however, repairs are inevitable. Once again, great thread and some great ideas to be put in practice in the near future, Thanks Sarge, WB

[SGT Rock]

There are some great ideas posted on this thread thus far. I too try to keep it simple however, a lesson learned. I recommend that when you go the less expensive route, be sure to test your equipment out thoroughly before hitting the trail with it. For example I tried to save a few dollars and bought a less expensive ground pad from Campmore. It worked great while in my tent. When I went "cowboy" I discovered the thing soaked water like a sponge. This would have been a terrible thing to discover at the wrong place and time. Also I recommend a good repair kit be added to your gear (duct tape, strong needle and thread), you can even re-stitch obviously weaker areas before you start however, repairs are inevitable. Once again, great thread and some great ideas to be put in practice in the near future, Thanks Sarge, WB

I agree Bob. I would make the same suggestion regardless of gear price though. I mean think of how a $150 Primus stove works and how it might be a bad thing to try and figure that out on the trail. Same thing for any tent - the wrong place to figure out how to set it up is on the trail for the first time in the dark when it is raining.

Great advice, thanks for injecting that.

[Spock]

Attached is a zip file containing an Excell spreadsheet for cheapo gear afficianadoes. Just plug in your cheapo options and give them a value of 0 or 1. "1" puts them in the cost and weight totals. "0" takes them out but leaves them in the list in case. You can add lines, but be sure to copy the formulas from an adjacent line to make sure everything adds up.

[SGT Rock]

Spock,

Added your file to the Dirtbagging article.

Thanks.

[mweinstone]

can i use my sewing machine and just get a bolt of silnylon?can each and every peice be homemade?

[SGT Rock]

Yes it can be. It would help though if you posted enough info about the gear you plan to make and have a realistic price for the average joe to get a good idea of what that would take. I think an all MYOG list would be a good entry.

[Amigi'sLastStand]

can i use my sewing machine and just get a bolt of silnylon?can each and every peice be homemade?
Make your own silnylon and save the $$$

[SGT Rock]

Bringing this back up on request.

[Tha Wookie]

Question:

Can you spend it on raw materials?

Would you have to buy a sewing machine or is that already there?



A good question about going cheap came up on the thread Shoestring Budget (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=55776#post55776). One of the neatest threads I ever saw was called the $300 challenge over on www.thebackpacker.com. Since that thread had been dead a while, I figured I would start a new one here.

The rules - you have $300 to spend on a pack. Temperatures expected should be about 40 degrees F and above - maybe good enough for an AT thru-hike starting in April. The goal is to build a complete pack with clothing, shelter, cookware, first aid, etc. You can assume that certain things may be already owned by a non-backpacker like a toothbrush, spoon, etc, but these weights must be included. The base pack weight (weight without food or water) should be less than 15 pounds.

Who is game?

[Tha Wookie]

whoah....


I just saw the other threads..... looks like I'm not the only one who'd rather make the best gear!

[Mags]

I had to laugh a few months ago.

Backpacker Magazine did an article similar to the one on Whiteblaze. (I think they may have called it the $400 challenge or something similar instead! No lie!)

There were even some suggestions extremely similar to what WB users suggested. One suggestion was to look at thrift stores in places that are outdoor areas. Boulder, CO was specifically mentioned!

I wonder if outdoor mags (BPer writers in particular?) are getting some article ideas from scouring the hiking BBSes ? :-? Not saying the magazines are doing it per se..but some free lancers may be getting their ideas from this place and others... Rather funny.

[SGT Rock]

Question:

Can you spend it on raw materials?

Would you have to buy a sewing machine or is that already there?
For my rules - no you wouldn't have to count the cost of your sewing machine but you would have to count the materials you got to make it. An example is my new winter hammock I spent about $8 to make and then throw in the Sil-nylon tarp (that stuff is a PITA to sew) for $40.


whoah....


I just saw the other threads..... looks like I'm not the only one who'd rather make the best gear!
Absolutely. It is amazing how much money you can save by DIY gear and people can rapidly figure out that they can make stuff just as good as some of that high priced stuff.

I would love to see Tha Wookie's idea of this list. I bet you have some good ideas to save money.

I got this one back up because a couple of guys I work with are getting into hiking and they found WhiteBlaze. One was telling me about WhiteBlaze without knowing I am a regular here. So anyway, he was talking about getting some new gear and how expensive it is - so I pointed him at the Dirtbagging article and this thread.

[Marta]

One was telling me about WhiteBlaze without knowing I am a regular here.

That is a hoot!

[Captn]

Walmart 2600 cu in Book Bag $ 20
Campmor Poncho Tarp $ 45
Equinox ultralight Bivy (backcountrygear.com) $ 60
Walmart head net $ 2
Lafuma warm n light 600 40 degree down sleeping bag (sports basement) $ 85
Blue pad from Walmart, trimmed $ 7
Scrap Tyvek for Ground cloth free 8 coat hanger stakes free
stuff sacks and pack liner, etc. Trashbags free f
fuel bottle - cast off soda bottle free
Beer Can Pot w/ coathanger wire bail and foil lid free
Soda can stove and "z stand" pot support made from a coat hanger free
Spoon from home free
mini Bic lighter $ 1
Dryer lint and a spare mini bic in a ziplock bag for emergency fire starter $ 1
Walmart knockoff paracord $ 2
Shopping bag for food and bear bagging (double bag it) free
Knit hat from home free
Insulation - use sleeping bag and poncho n/a
Walmart Fleece Top $ 10
Walmart Nylon Shirt $ 7
Walmart polyester workout pants (warmer than nylon) $ 10
Shorts - swimsuit from home (please leave the speedo's out of it) free
Walmart Nylon Dress socks $ 4
Shoes - tennis shoes from home free
water bottles - use soda/gatorade bottles free
Aquamira $ 12
first aid - make from home supplies in ziplock free
Small bottle of Dr. Bronners soap $ 4
Toiletries from home in a ziplock free
small swiss army knife (classic) $ 10
Toilet paper from home in a ziplock free
Compass - walmart $ 4
Flashlight - walmart headlamp $ 8
Alcohol $ 5
Hand Sanitizer $ 1
cotton bandana $ 1
$ 299 total

[SGT Rock]

Looks like a good list Captn

[jesse]

Sounds like a fun challenge. It may take a while. Last sunday I bought about 12 yds of nylon, 4 yd of sil-nylon at the $1 bin at Walmart. I am kicking myself for not getting some fleece that was also $1/yd. I may go back tonight. Should be able to make all clothes except underware, socks and shoes cheap.
I'll be back!

[Mags]

I wrote mine a while ago. It is more aimed for 3 season backpacking in Colorado. I figure the ideas should apply to anywhere, though.

Due to not being able to copy and paste the formating too easily, I'll just post the link:
http://www.magnanti.com/miscwritings/3hundred_challenge.htm


Just my .02 contribution. :D

[SGT Rock]

Good list Mags.

[Bootstrap]

Switching from my expensive Asolo boots to my $35 Nike running shoes was one of the best decisions I ever made.

How does that work if it rains? My Vasques are nice and waterproof, even in days of hard rain. The main reason I haven't switched over is that I worry about getting caught in that kind of rain again ...

Jonathan

[dessertrat]

Are we allowing used gear? That seems to make it easy.

[SGT Rock]

They get wet. At the end of the day I take my shoes off and they dry out by the next morning.

Waterproof doesn't mean dry.

[SGT Rock]

Are we allowing used gear? That seems to make it easy.
Maybe, post your list and I will adjudicate it LOL. If you are grabbing some $400 pack you bought a year ago and saying that is good - well that won't count. But if you bought a backpack at a thrift store that was used that is allowable. And no donating your pack then buying it back to cheat.:rolleyes:

[Dirtygaiters]

Make your own silnylon and save the $$$


Is there really a lot of monetary savings. You can get silnylon from online for $5/yard. Uncoated ripstop nylon + silicone + mineral spirits + paint brushes would surely cost more than that, wouldn't it?

[Jim Adams]

SGT Rock,
I don't know why but I carry stakes for my tent when tenting but always make my stakes while tarping. If you make them from available materials in camp (quick and easy) you don't have to carry any in your pack. Just a thought.

geek

[Mags]

How does that work if it rains? My Vasques are nice and waterproof, even in days of hard rain. The main reason I haven't switched over is that I worry about getting caught in that kind of rain again


The boots many not let rain in..but the tops of the boots do. :eek:

As with Sgt. Rock, I switched to trail runners (partially) because the boots always endeed up gettig wet and took forever to dry.

As always, YMMV.

[Bootstrap]

The boots many not let rain in..but the tops of the boots do. :eek:

With a good pair of rain pants covering them, I did pretty well in pouring rain for 2 days straight, which is all you can ask for.

On the other hand, they *are* heavy ...

Jonathan

[Mags]

With a good pair of rain pants covering them, I did pretty well in pouring rain for 2 days straight, which is all you can ask for.

On the other hand, they *are* heavy ...

Jonathan

I'd like to see what would happen with 17 days straight of rain. Seriously.

That is what happened to me in 1998 (El Nino year) on the AT.

It was the start of me transitioning from boots.

*ALL* hiking shoes will get wet at somepoint. Some shoes just stay wet longer than others.

[Bootstrap]

I'd like to see what would happen with 17 days straight of rain. Seriously.

That is what happened to me in 1998 (El Nino year) on the AT.

It was the start of me transitioning from boots.

*ALL* hiking shoes will get wet at somepoint. Some shoes just stay wet longer than others.


And trailrunners dry out overnight? What's it like hiking in wet trailrunners? Should I just buy the Brooks trailrunners that match my running shoes and fit my odd-shaped feet, or are there particular trailrunners I should look at?

My boots *are* rather heavy and a bit clumsy ...

Jonathan

[Marta]

Some trailrunners dry out overnight. Others have many layers and trap and hold moisture. I look for "well-ventilated" in the product description. The lighter ones that have a single layer of mesh on the upper tend to dry more quickly.

[Mags]

And trailrunners dry out overnight? What's it like hiking in wet trailrunners?


1) Yep (usually, anyway)

2) Better than hiking in wet boots. :)

FWIW, I crossed the high sierra in June wearing Nike Air pegs. Stream crossings, snow, etc. They never dried because it there was water and snow everywear.

The difference? Wet boots would have been much heavier and even more miserable. I felt with the added venitialtion of sneakers, my feet breated a bit more and did not suffer the nastiness that wet boots can cause (chaffing, trench-foot like symptoms, etc).

I'll never go back to hiking in boots.

My trail shoe of choice is now Montrail Hardrocks (10w). They lasted ~1000 mile last year (Boulder, CO to Grants, NM). But every foot is different. Find a shoe that works for you. A good running store ususally has many varities of shoes (including trail runners).

[SGT Rock]

I've found there is a theory of hiker physics that basically states: The longer it takes footwear to get wet inside, the longer it takes it to dry out. So if it takes your boots 3 days to get wet inside - then it will take about 6 days for them to dry out completely.

Some folks report their footwear is ALWAYS dry seems a little fishy. They either have a different standard of dry, they haven't actually hiked in Appalachian wet weather for more than a day or so, or they have never actually met an Appalachian frog strangler.

Anyhow, I have tried civilian Goretex boots, military goretex, trail runners, sandals, and many other combinations of boots and waterproofing treatments. Goretex boots are over rated.

[Nightwalker]

You might try the NB 478. Less than 50 bucks, good support, light and lugs on the soles.

Good and cheap is a heck of a combo!

[Jester2000]

Here's what you do: boots, properly waterproofed, full gaiters, properly bloused. Or be sloppy and complain about wet boots.

As for the challenge regarding gear, I accept, and I do it successfully by stealing from all of my hiker friends. Well, um, not stealing, you know, just borrowing. . .

Want cheap gear? Get a job at an outfitter.

[ed bell]

Want cheap gear? Get a job at an outfitter.That is very true. Can you say "pro deal"?:D

[SGT Rock]

Yes, but the discount ain't always that good. Stealing gear would do you better,

[Marta]

GoreTex-lined boots worked for me under the following conditions:
1) British Isles; usually spongey underfoot; ground temperatures never above about 60 degrees.
2) Mostly day-hiking, so when the boots did get wet inside (because I stepped in some peat-muck so deep it came up over the tops of the boots), I could go through the crumpled-newspaper, next-to-the-radiator-for-a-couple-of-days drying routine
3) For about six months, until the Gore-Tex developed small leaks in it

On the AT, though, it's trail runners for me.

If I were to go back to the UK now, I'd probably keep hiking in trail runners.

I'm always perplexed by people who say their feet don't get wet from sweat when they're wearing boots. On the scale of human experience, my feet don't sweat all that much (I'm comparing myself to my husband and sons), but I if I'm wearing poorly-ventilated shoes I notice that my socks get damp.

I think it's unlikely that anyone will find the perfect pair of shoes or boots on their first try. That's one of the many reasons I advocate many taking many short backpacking trips before setting off on The Big One.

I'd be loathe to spend a ton of money on really exotic footwear without having tried lots of cheaper options first. With running shoes that I later decide are not good hiking shoes, I can always wear them around town. An expensive pair of leather boots is not so useful--I've got a pair gathering dust in the utility room. They're gorgeous, but have given me nasty blisters every time I've worn them. Maybe I should make them into lamp bases...

[Jester2000]

They're gorgeous, but have given me nasty blisters every time I've worn them.

I don't know any women who let this stop them from wearing gorgeous shoes.

[Marta]

I don't know any women who let this stop them from wearing gorgeous shoes.

I guess I'm one of a kind, then. ;)

Or maybe I've just been married for so long I don't even try to doll up anymore.

[sylvan]

I'd like to see what would happen with 17 days straight of rain. Seriously.

That is what happened to me in 1998 (El Nino year) on the AT.

17? Pfft. Try 30 straight days. Overall, more than 100 days of rain (out of 152). At least finding water was easy ...

[Mags]

17? Pfft. Try 30 straight days. Overall, more than 100 days of rain (out of 152). At least finding water was easy ...

Well, I do claim to be a wimp.

Did you have a plague of locusts as well? :D

[sylvan]

Well, I do claim to be a wimp.

Did you have a plague of locusts as well? :D

Nope. A Plague of mosquitos ... perhaps :rolleyes:

[SGT Rock]

Well the cool thing I found in Louisianna is if it is raining - the skeeters ain't flying.

[Bootstrap]

can i use my sewing machine and just get a bolt of silnylon?can each and every peice be homemade?

How much does a bolt of silnylon cost, anyway, and where would you get it from?

Jonathan

[Pennsylvania Rose]

How much does a bolt of silnylon cost, anyway, and where would you get it from?

Jonathan

Since we're going cheap here, try the $1 fabric bin at Wal Mart.

[CoyoteWhips]

Today I saw Walmart had a new candidate for a $300 set. Outdoor Products Desert Ridge internal frame pack. Weighs about 2 pound, 4 ounces. Holds 54.5 liters (3,520 cu.in.) Features two removable aluminum stays, cyclone bladder ready. Sells for about $30.

I've been waiting for paychecks to get a larger bag for winter weekends, but this seems like it's gonna work.

[brit4jesus]

hi this is a great thread, please please exsperienced hikers squeeze a list out for the sake of newbies like me, ive been bitten by the at bug good an hard and im hiking 09 starting mid march so that i can take my time for a month to get in shape (5'11 an 265lbs) when i started looking in to gear i thought i saw my dream slip through my fingers coz of cost, now i have new hope . i dont know about ultra light but im getting good at bargin hunting tent is a trekker brand from cabelas 3lbs 6oz $30, cabelas self inflating mattress- bargin cave 3lbs 12oz $23.19 and i have a back pack from years ago i never used its like 3lbs8 oz with out the internal aluminum back peices, now im looking for a light weight cheap sleeping bag maybe ill hit ebay for used,
so keep up the good work guys.

[Programbo]

I think I spent more than $300 for a pack..tent and sleeping bag in 1976 :p

[berninbush]

now im looking for a light weight cheap sleeping bag maybe ill hit ebay for used,
so keep up the good work guys.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=129749

50F rating so it's not for cold weather camping, but it's a great price. I have the mummy bag.

[brit4jesus]

hey !! all of you i just bought 14 yqrds of sil-nylon at walmart for a buck a yard so get out there ! as i think they had it in cheep coz of halloween its bright orange an really thing but so strong i couldnt rip it (im a BIG guy working in construction) thats how strong this stuff is , now i just have to work out what to do with it , thinking of making a tarp any suggestions or hints on sewing this stuff or what to make with it ?

[SGT Rock]

If you are ready to tackle it, I'd start by making some stuff sacks for practice and then work up to a tarp.

[jandb]

Is anyone still out there on this thread? My husband and I are actively compiling our gear for this year's hike and there are some great ideas here...We'd love to hear from more of you out there!

[SGT Rock]

I'm still around. Read the article on Dirtbagging and Deal Shopping.

[JWren]

I am already a runner and still have my first pair of shoes from freshman year in high school, i'm a junior now, and even those shoes could still do good, those are Asics, now i run in Mizunos now, my last pair i ran about 25-35 miles for about 24 weeks, they were getting dirty, so now they are my raind day/mud pair and I would not think twice about going out on the AT with them, If you want a good athletic sole that is better than any of the $0.50 one that the manufacture gives you, you may want to look at Sof Soles, very nice, i really do not have a list since i am fairly new to hiking but have hiked about 80 miles on the AT, 35 with heavy sterotypical boots, stupid stupid stupid, next hike Pair of Asics, Blazing

[JWren]

Sorry about that last post, i only read the first page, and did not realize the last 5

[BOWSINGER]

SGT ROCK $300 CHALLENGE:
Has too much good stuff on it to let it sit idle.
Here is my $222.02 worth:

7-Pound Big Four:
Pack: Walmart Desert Ridge 30.0 oz. $30.00
W/o backstays
Liner: medium trash bag 0.5 oz. $0.00

Stuff bags 3.0 oz. $10.00
(3) Walmart Ultimate Dry Sacks
Shelter:
Tarp: Heatsheet Blanket 3.0 oz. $7.00

Poncho: GI use as tarp door 13.0 oz. $20.00
Cord 1.0 oz. $1.00
Grip Clips: (8) clips 5.5 oz. $10.00
Stakes: (8) 9-inch nails 5.5 oz. $6.00
Ground sheet/semi-bivy 3.0 oz. $7.00
2nd Heatsheet Blanket
Sleeping:
Down bag/quilt 31.0 oz. $125

LuxuryLite V-Bag now $99.00/48.0 oz.
While they last.
Pad: blue foam 3/8x48x20 7.5 oz. $6.00
Soft ground only!

Cooking kit:
Alcohol stove: V8 can 0.5 oz. $0.00

Wood stove/wind screen 1.0 oz. $0.00
Coffee can
Fuel bottle 2.0 oz. $0.00
Heat bottle or whatever
Pot: one-pint beer can/lid/bail 1.5 oz. $0.00
Cup: plastic measuring cup 1.0 oz. $0.00
Spoon: whatever/wherever 0.5 oz. $0.00
Cooking bags: steamer bags 1.0 oz. $0.00
“ No Honey, I don’t know where they went.”
Cozy: blue foam 1.5 oz. $0.00
TOTALS: 112.0 oz. or 7 pounds $225.00

[Jester2000]

Cooking kit:
Alcohol stove: V8 can 0.5 oz. $0.00

Wood stove/wind screen 1.0 oz. $0.00
Coffee can
Fuel bottle 2.0 oz. $0.00
Heat bottle or whatever
Pot: one-pint beer can/lid/bail 1.5 oz. $0.00
Cup: plastic measuring cup 1.0 oz. $0.00
Spoon: whatever/wherever 0.5 oz. $0.00
Cooking bags: steamer bags 1.0 oz. $0.00
“ No Honey, I don’t know where they went.”
Cozy: blue foam 1.5 oz. $0.00
TOTALS: 112.0 oz. or 7 pounds $225.00

Since all of this supposedly costs zero, I'm assuming that you're stealing the V8, Heet, Coffee, etc.?

[fiddlehead]

Interesting thread. $300 would get you enough to hike on.
How about how far could you get on $300?

I would think i could get at least to Hot Springs as long as i didn't have to pay for sleeping somewhere while i was doing the shopping (thrift stores, dumpster diving, hiker boxes)

Between those 3, i would think the outfitting itself would cost around $50-75.

It's the food. grits and bland noodles would get old quick so i guess it would have to be the old standard, ( i hate them ) ramen's.

Hiking with lots of money would be a little more fun. Especially at eating time. The high dollar gear is not important to me though.

[mister krabs]

Since all of this supposedly costs zero, I'm assuming that you're stealing the V8, Heet, Coffee, etc.?

I think that the answer is recycling and re-appropriating from non-hiking household use. If I have it under my sink for household use, I don't have to buy it and for the purposes of a gear list, costs "0". Like counting the cost of TP for a weekend trip.

[BOWSINGER]

Mister Krabs; I could not have said it better-thank you.

[Jofish]

I have one major concern about using shoes (vs. boots) on the trail; warmth. If I'm thru-hiking the AT starting in March, are trail shoes going to be warm enough? What about snow? If my shoes get wet and its below freezing I'm not going to be a happy camper - or hiker for that matter. While I agree that hiking shoes may be the better route for warm-weather hiking I can't imagine that they would be good enough for cold weather, especially in snow/rain. Thoughts?

[garlic08]

I have one major concern about using shoes (vs. boots) on the trail; warmth. If I'm thru-hiking the AT starting in March, are trail shoes going to be warm enough? What about snow? If my shoes get wet and its below freezing I'm not going to be a happy camper - or hiker for that matter. While I agree that hiking shoes may be the better route for warm-weather hiking I can't imagine that they would be good enough for cold weather, especially in snow/rain. Thoughts?

Paradoxically, I find my feet stay warmer in snow-soaked running shoes than in snow-soaked boots. Maybe it's better movement and better circulation, maybe it's just me. One trick I use in really sloppy snow is "bagtex"--cut a plastic grocery sack in half and wear them between the shoes and socks, toes in the bag corners. Only do that in the extremes, or your feet might rot from not breathing.

[Jofish]

Your feet may be warmer in snow-soaked shoes than snow-soaked boots, but what about compared to relatively dry boots? I usually hike with waterproof boots (and gaiters if its raining or I'm hiking in the snow). The only moisture in my boots is basically from sweating, which is minuscule when compared to sloshing, soaked feet.

I've done the bagtex trick (learned it when I was like 8 when empty bread bags did the trick), but I'd still be hiking around in sloshy, cold sneakers. It does keep the feet relatively dry though.

[garlic08]

Your feet may be warmer in snow-soaked shoes than snow-soaked boots, but what about compared to relatively dry boots? I usually hike with waterproof boots (and gaiters if its raining or I'm hiking in the snow). The only moisture in my boots is basically from sweating, which is minuscule when compared to sloshing, soaked feet.

I'll stick with the running shoes for a long hike, no matter how relatively dry another hiker's waterproof boots and gaiters are in whatever hypothetical situation we could come up with. They work great for me, overall, in all conditions I've had them in. I've never wished I had waterproof boots on a thru hike. I tried long distance hiking with waterproof boots and my feet were miserable, often from the sweat.

[Jofish]

Garlic, I'm not trying to say that your way (or my way) is better or worse. I'm speaking from my own personal experiences and expressing the concerns I have about switching to trail shoes. I like the idea of them for warmer weather, I just have some personal reservations when it comes to colder temperatures.

As always YMMV (no pun intended), and that's great if it works for you. I value your opinions; thats exactly what I'm looking for. And while I haven't had the same experiences as you and will likely stick with boots in colder temperatures, I am seriously considering switching to hiking shoes in warmer weather situations.

[Mags]

...and as a side note..good luck in keeping ANY shoes waterproof. :O

[Marta]

Jofish, my experience has been that it simply isn't possible to keep boots dry inside over the long run. Eventually rain will run down inside, or you'll step in something a fraction of an inch too deep, or you'll have to wear wet socks, or something...and the boots will be wet inside. Also, if you're wearing the same pair of boots day after day after day after day, the shear buildup of sweat will wet them.

Obviously many hikers have worn boots on many hikes, so I'm not saying they can't or won't work. But, I like my feet dry, so I like well-ventilated shoes. With a good pair of running shoes and thin socks, I can walk through a stream and an hour later, shoes, socks, and feet are dry again. I can walk all day in the rain, and in the morning, the shoes are mostly dry again. The all-synthetic fabric shoes are like good hiking clothes--they just don't retain moisture.

Most people own at least one pair of athletic shoes, so it's not expensive to try a hike in them, and see how it feels.

[weary]

...and as a side note..good luck in keeping ANY shoes waterproof. :O
Mags, as usual, is right. But on weekend hikes in winter, in Maine, I'll continue to use LL Bean boots, or their copies, with double heavy socks, and, at least, water resistant boots.

Starting south in March -- or from North in late May -- I might make an alternative choice. Which choises are wiser. I dunno. One or the other, certainly.

Weary

[Mags]

Mags, as usual, is right. But on weekend hikes in winter, in Maine, I'll continue to use LL Bean boots, or their copies, with double heavy socks, and, at least, water resistant boots.



Weary

My ex-girlfriends woulds strongly disagree with the first sentence. ;)

But, safe to say, real winter hiking (Maine!) is different than the thru-hiking conditions most see. Snowshoeing in duck boots/Sorels for a day or weekend outing works well. I'd hate to use them for multiple days over many miles, though. But, in winter, you'd have no choice. :) I ski tour in leather boots with wool socks (and the increasingly rare times I snowshoe, I use a similar boot)...but the fluffy snow seen in deep winter is probably different than the ultra slushy snow seen in the Smokies during March.

Every hiking shoe will get wet in those conditions. A boot will take much longer to dry vs a trail shoe. And they will get wet at some point. (I think it is a law or something. :D)

[Idealist]

Inspired by this thread and buy other cost saving articles on this site, I endeavored to show my in-between-jobs, outdoor-loving brother how he could, indeed, afford a thru-hike this year. He decided instead to move to Chicago (Oh well, the trail will be there later if he changes his mind), but I had already put together the following pack list and thought I’d share it in the challenge. It was a lot of fun to create!

Total pack weight: 17 lbs
Cost: $300, on the nose

Sleep System:

Sleeping Bag: Micro Tek Ultra-Compact Mummy 30-Degree Sleeping Bag: Walmart: 48 oz:$35
Sleeping Pad: Stansport Pack-Lite Camping Pad: Walmart: 08 oz: $13
Cover : Poly Tarp: REI: 24 oz: $13
Stakes: Cut ironwood: Homemade: 03 oz: $0

Packing

Backpack: Mountainsmith: Yardsale : 80 oz: $8
Sacks (3: food, clothes, misc): Outdoor Recreation Group: Walmart: 08 oz: $12
Raincover: Trashbags: Homemade: 03 oz: $0
Stove : Vargo Outdoors Triad Titanium Alcohol Stove: REI: 01 oz: $20
Fuel bottle: Recycled soda bottle: Homemade: 01 oz: $0
Alcohol: Methyl Alcohol: Ace: 12 oz: $3
Windscreen: Aluminum foil: Homemade: 01 oz: $0
Cookware: Aluminium Pot: Walmart: 12 oz: $18
Untensil: Spork: Wendy's: 01 oz: $0
Fire starter: Bic mini-lighter: Ace: 01 oz: $1
Water bottles (2): Recycled soda bottles: Homemade: 03 oz: $0
Purifier: Porta Aqua Iodine Tablets: REI: 01 oz $7

Clothing (everyday clothing not counted in the overall pack weight)

base shirt: Wicking tee: Walmart: 16 oz $10
long sleeve: Tech Tee: REI: 32 oz $20
pants: REI Adventure's Pants: REI: 32 oz $16
overlayer: fleece: Thrift store: 32 oz: $4
Rain cover: Poncho: REI: 05 oz: $6
socks: Merino Wool: REI: 10 oz $10
shoes: Hi-Tec Auckland WP Trail Running Shoe: Sports Authority: 64 oz $40
Headgear: Bandana: Home: 01 oz $0
Hat: Thermolite Cap: REI: 08 oz $17
Gloves: Spandex Gloves: Walmart: 08 oz $10

Extras:

Deet: Maxi Deet: REI: 01 oz $3
Guide : DataBook: ATC: 09 oz $5
Safety: compass whistle: REI : 01 oz $5
Trekking Poles: Ironwood sapling: Homemade: 34 oz $0
Headlamp: Petzl Tikkina: REI : 03 oz $20
Toilet paper: roll: Home: 02 oz $0
Toothbrush: cut short: Walmart: 01 oz $1
toothpaste: mini tube: Walmart: 01 oz $1
lip balm: carmex: Walmart: 01 oz $1
safety pins: Home: 00 oz $0
duct tape: two yards: Home: 02 oz $0
hand sanitizer: small bottle: Walmart: 02 oz $1

[Jester2000]

Since all of this supposedly costs zero, I'm assuming that you're stealing the V8, Heet, Coffee, etc.?


I think that the answer is recycling and re-appropriating from non-hiking household use. If I have it under my sink for household use, I don't have to buy it and for the purposes of a gear list, costs "0". Like counting the cost of TP for a weekend trip.


Mister Krabs; I could not have said it better-thank you.

Well, if manufacturers didn't count the cost of materials and labor (which is the case for all of the $0 items on this thread), then production cost for everything would be zero.

And if I'm "recycling and reappropriating," why do only non-hiking items count? If I'm recycling a pack by buying at Goodwill for $20, I get to say it cost $20, so if I choose to reuse gear that I bought for only one thru-hike, shouldn't I be able to say:

"All my gear from a previous thru-hike: $0"

[mister krabs]

Well, if manufacturers didn't count the cost of materials and labor (which is the case for all of the $0 items on this thread), then production cost for everything would be zero.

And if I'm "recycling and reappropriating," why do only non-hiking items count? If I'm recycling a pack by buying at Goodwill for $20, I get to say it cost $20, so if I choose to reuse gear that I bought for only one thru-hike, shouldn't I be able to say:

"All my gear from a previous thru-hike: $0"

If that's what you want to do, I support you.

[Jester2000]

If that's what you want to do, I support you.

Hahaha! Thanks!

[tuswm]

Trying to get my brother and my best friends girl friend outfitted here are some deals that we found at the REI attic sale. If you have tome before your hike you might want to invest time and show up hours early and just grad what you can.

MH alchemy jacket $70
MH wind stopper tech fleece $50
MH down jacket $19
arc tryx gortex shell $10

Asolo fugitive size 9 wide $8
Asolo fugitive size 10.5 $3
green super feet all $2

Jet Boil PCS- lid $20
Jet boil Flash $30
MSR pocket rocket $15
MSR reactor $60
Snow Peak Giga Power Stove with Piezo $15
MSR wisperlite international $30

2 steri pens $9 + $11

Ti letherman surge $6

REI sub kilo 20* mens sleeping bag $30
REI down time 10* down womens sleeping bag $50
thermarest 4 season $12
thermarest womens $7

rei flash 65 backpack womens $23
rei flash 65 backpack mens $40

[Manikwest]

Core:



Pack-17 oz. Gossamer gear G4 Pack 125.oo
Shelter/rain gear- 9 oz. Outdoor products multi-perpose poncho. 14.oo


Bivy- 7 oz. Slumberjack "Bivouac cover" 33.oo
Sleeping bag- 41 oz. Slumber jack Super guide 30 deg long 46.oo
Bug Bivy- 4 oz. 3''x5'' of walmart wedding veil fabric 4.oo
Pillow/stuff sacks- 1 oz. Small garbage bags Free
Trekking Poles- Carried Wooden sticks from the trail Free
Chord- 4 oz. walmart braided chord 100' 2.oo

Kitchen:

Stove/pot-3. oz Home made alcohol stove,and pot Free
Fuel container- 1 oz. 20 oz Water bottle from home Free
Water treatment- 3 oz. Iodine,and vitamin C tablets 3.oo
Water bottles- 3 oz. 3 one liter wide mouth water bottles Free
Bear bag- 1 oz. Chord mentioned above\small garbage bag Free
Water bag- 0.1 oz Gallon Zip-Lock Bag Free

Cloths:

Shell- worn Polyester T-shirt from walmart 6.oo
Insilation- 14 oz. Compmor 200 wt fleece jacket 26.oo
Gloves- 2 oz Light wt. Mechanics gloves 3.oo
Hat-1 oz. Knit hat Free
socks- 3 oz. Walmart wool blend 3.oo
Extra socks- worn Walmart wool blend 3.oo
Pants-worn Cheap walmart athletic pants 12.oo
Underwear- worn Silk boxers From home
shoes- worn New balance running shoe From home
Hat- worn large bandanna From Home

Essentials:

First Aid-3 oz Band-aids, Tylenol pm, butterfly's From home
Gauze, needle (in ziplock)
Sunscreen- 0.5 oz. Repackaged sunscreen sm. bag From home
Soap- 0.2 oz. Campsoap repackaged in visine bottle From home
Toothbrush 0.5 oz. toothbrush/toothpaste/floss From home
Hygiene- 0.4 Alcohol gel in micro bottle 2.oo
Bug repellent- 0.3 Tube of Ultralon 5.oo
Camera- 1 oz. Disposable 5.oo
Lighter- carried Bic adjustable lighter 1.oo
Knife- carried Lightweight box cutters 1.oo
ID- carried ID, Key, and Cash From home


Total base pack weight= 120 oz. or 7.5 lbs
Total base pack coast= $294.oo (So close!!!!)

Total with food, and water, and fuel= 18.5 lbs.

This is my ultralight set up. I know it is minimalist, but we all have different reasons for going into the wilderness. With few exception this is the base pack I will be starting my Thu-hike in 2011. The only changes I may make is bringing a better camra, and possibly a full-shelty such as "THE- ONE" by Gossamer Gear. That would still keep me under the weight limitations, but would put me over in cost substantially.

Hope this helps others lighten up, and the best of luck to all.
Thanks,
Manikwest:sun

[pcasebere]

..shop at second-hand stores (:banana) like thrift stores, yard/garage sales, or even online at craig's list or ebay; lots of good items at rock bottom prices do surface to those who extend some effort to search 'em out.

[JAK]

I do most of my shopping in my own closet these days.
Still nice to keep an eye out though.

[couscous]

Currently on the trail near Bear Spring Cabin Trail in Maryland. The 15# total pack weight was easy for the short (31 mile) section from Smithsburg to Harpers Ferry, but I wouldn't make the $300 limit.

[BOWSINGER]

Today I saw Walmart had a new candidate for a $300 set. Outdoor Products Desert Ridge internal frame pack. Weighs about 2 pound, 4 ounces. Holds 54.5 liters (3,520 cu.in.) Features two removable aluminum stays, cyclone bladder ready. Sells for about $30.

I've been waiting for paychecks to get a larger bag for winter weekends, but this seems like it's gonna work.

I got me one of these packs about a year & half ago. It has held up well with no problems.
My buddy bought the hunting camo model and has blow a pocket zipper.
The new version this year has better-bigger side pockets.

[Mags]

Updated my list:
http://www.pmags.com/300-gear-challenge


You can get different gear, but this gear should work for anyone just starting out. Heck, the gear I started with truly was not any better. :)

Not meant to be concrete, but to show how a person who is creative and willing to do leg work can get what they need w/o breaking the bank.

[Marta]

Thanks for posting this. A friend of my husband is planning an AT hike next year and is wrestling with gear issues. This will give him more information to confuse him.

[Feral Bill]

Updated my list:
http://www.pmags.com/300-gear-challenge


You can get different gear, but this gear should work for anyone just starting out. Heck, the gear I started with truly was not any better. :)

Not meant to be concrete, but to show how a person who is creative and willing to do leg work can get what they need w/o breaking the bank.

Using cheap gear to start also makes for smarter decisions when buying upgrade later. It beats getting a pile of costly gear and discovering it doesn't suit you.

[JAK]

A little extravagance is ok now and then if it gets you on the trail. Maybe even a good investment if it gets you spend less money on a hiking weekend than otherwise. My own style is ultra-cheap though. Still, like any old crow I do like the odd "shiny" item if it is reasonably functional and on sale. Biggest mistake early on was a heavy pack. The 'heavy' tent was still useful for backyard and car camping. A quality bag can be worth spending money on, but you can save alot of money there two if willing to carry a few extra ounces and find a good fitting near-quality bag on sale. Dirt-bagging can be half the fun, and necessary for some of us, especially with other hobbies and kids you want to spend some money on also. Looking at some new cross-country skis, if we get the snow. Winter sucks up here without snow.

Off to do papers.

[bardo]

Asolo ultralight 55 $90 - 2lb
Ebay 1 person tent $20 - 2.1lb
Amazon special 30f bag $35 - 2.5lb


http://www.ebay.com/itm/190737622584?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[tammons]

Hammock setup

Not $300, more like $400, but this is most of my actual setup with a few exceptions.
11# and a lot of MYOG and some used.
My min base is less due to some lighter Eq that does not fit into $400 but I do have all this stuff.
The Jam II is a bit small especially with the IX UQ and pad. I do have a lighter bigger pack.

A 45dF setup like this would weigh about a pound less. Add another $200-300 and you are down to 8-9# base depending.

A MYOG full bug net adds 10 oz and $18 via walmart 2nds.

Might give some people ideas.
I am sure a few things are missing.

M50 shell QUILT MYOG 5XP 30dF 20 oz $120
8x10 sil tarp & lines used 18 oz $40
5x12 double layer hammock, MYOG 14 oz $20
6' whoopies 3 3 oz $18
Tree Straps 2 MYOG 2 oz $5
IX 2 LAYER UQ 13 MYOG 13 oz $28
IX extra layer 4 MYOG 4 oz $8
Blue Pad 11 oz $10
Pack JamII stripped USED 18 oz $50
Dry Bag 2 CHINA 2 oz $3
Pack cover MYOG 4 oz $14

Driducks 10 oz $15

Lifestraw WATER FILTER 2 oz $20
FUNNEL FREE 1 OZ

WATER CONTAINER
2 1L bottles free 3 oz

COOKING
18oz kit FOSTERS/TANG CONTAINER 5 oz $15
Alcohol stove

PACKED CLOTHES GOT MOST
Poly Shirt Salv Army 5 oz $3
Fleece hat 2 oz
Gloves 2 oz
Spare socks 2 pair 4 oz
Head net myog 2 oz $6
Down jacket 20 oz $25 on sale last yr

WORN CLOTHS GOT THEM ALL
Hat 2
POLY compression Shirt 4.8
POLY compression Shorts 3.8
Zip off pants 10
merino socks 2.2
Trail Runners

EVERY DAY STUFF, GOT IT ALL 8 oz
MED RAiDED THE MEDICINE CABINET 2-4 oz depending


TOTAL 11# $400

[scudder]

bumping this

[kyhipo]

A good question about going cheap came up on the thread Shoestring Budget (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=55776#post55776). One of the neatest threads I ever saw was called the $300 challenge over on www.thebackpacker.com (http://www.thebackpacker.com). Since that thread had been dead a while, I figured I would start a new one here.

The rules - you have $300 to spend on a pack. Temperatures expected should be about 40 degrees F and above - maybe good enough for an AT thru-hike starting in April. The goal is to build a complete pack with clothing, shelter, cookware, first aid, etc. You can assume that certain things may be already owned by a non-backpacker like a toothbrush, spoon, etc, but these weights must be included. The base pack weight (weight without food or water) should be less than 15 pounds.

Who is game?too easy:)ky