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JokerJersey
11-22-2009, 23:28
I was thinking today about my boot camp experience and wondering how it would compare to a thru hike in terms of physical and mental difficulty.

I understand in terms of length of time, the thru-hike would challenge you longer, but perhaps not as intensely for the long duration. What I mean by that is that every day in boot was tough, either physically or mentally, at least in my mind. I know that on my longer trips, I might have a week or two that are tough, but not week upon week upon week of being screwed with. It did get easier towards the end, as your body and mind adapt, but I would assume this would hold true on the trail as well.

So, what do you guys think? Those of you who have thru'd AND been thru boot camp...which was tougher or were they about the same?

Outrider
11-22-2009, 23:54
I have not done a thru hike but have been through basic. I would think the one big factor would be you can walk off the trail any time you wanted. In your mind you know this. Once you start basic, you are there. You dont really have any choices any more.

JokerJersey
11-23-2009, 00:08
Well, that's not really true though. We had one guy just sit down and refuse to train. They yelled and screamed and freaked out, but he just kept saying no. Three weeks later he was home with a failure to adapt discharge. This isn't one of those, I know a guy who knows a guy kind of things either. Happened in my platoon, in front of me.

I see what you mean though about the determination. You have to want to quit REALLY bad to get out of the military in boot, but on the trail, you can just say screw it. I can see that being a factor.

Doooglas
11-23-2009, 05:37
Well. Been there.
Boot camp is a cross between having a tough football coach and a shrink specializing in brainwashing you to worship a flag and hate anyone with a different flag.

I've logged many a mile but no "through hike".
A through hike would be much tougher than boot camp but highly enjoyable.
No loudmouth, glassy eyed, brainwashed, dimwit screaming at you is a big plus !;)
My opinion. :p

Lone Wolf
11-23-2009, 05:58
I was thinking today about my boot camp experience and wondering how it would compare to a thru hike in terms of physical and mental difficulty.

I understand in terms of length of time, the thru-hike would challenge you longer, but perhaps not as intensely for the long duration. What I mean by that is that every day in boot was tough, either physically or mentally, at least in my mind. I know that on my longer trips, I might have a week or two that are tough, but not week upon week upon week of being screwed with. It did get easier towards the end, as your body and mind adapt, but I would assume this would hold true on the trail as well.

So, what do you guys think? Those of you who have thru'd AND been thru boot camp...which was tougher or were they about the same?
what branch you talkin' about?

Lone Wolf
11-23-2009, 06:01
Well. Been there.
Boot camp is a cross between having a tough football coach and a shrink specializing in brainwashing you to worship a flag and hate anyone with a different flag.


that's the air force for ya

Hooch
11-23-2009, 06:51
that's the air force for yaAir Force? Well, that's a little disappointing. I thought he said he was in the military. Air Force is a bunch of frat boys with uniforms. :rolleyes:

g8trh8tr
11-23-2009, 08:39
I would say it depends on when you went through boot camp. I went through in 86 and I have to say it was pretty tough. Boot camp these days is ALOT more relaxed. I can say that honestly because I spent the last 2 years in a Drill Sergeant unit. Haven't done a through hike but the several long section hikes were pretty tough as well so I would say it is a toss up.

JokerJersey
11-23-2009, 08:50
what branch you talkin' about?

Well, in the interest of not wanting to stir up the age old debate between which branch is "harder", I didn't really mention it. I personally went through Marine Corps boot camp in '98, so that's my only experience on the matter.

Lone Wolf
11-23-2009, 09:01
Well, in the interest of not wanting to stir up the age old debate between which branch is "harder", I didn't really mention it. I personally went through Marine Corps boot camp in '98, so that's my only experience on the matter.

i spent 3 months on Parris Island back in 77. it was hot

mister pooh
11-23-2009, 09:06
I haven't done a thru, but boy I went through boot. Great Lakes, IL from November to January, and I'd never seen more than a 1/4 inch of snow before that. Needless to say, I don't notice cold as much since then :)

While both are mental and physical challenges, I would think it's like comparing horses and zebras. Boot camp exists to 1) train individuals to change their focus from self interest to team interest by 2) accomplishing tasks given by the chain of command with 3) extreme attention to detail. A thru hike's goals are completely left up to the individual to come up with themselves. While helping buddies along and joining a group is a part of some people's thru's, it can't compare with being forced to work with people not of one's choosing to accomplish even the smallest of tasks. I also can say that while boot camp is physical stressing, it's not the exercise as much as the sleep deprivation. Hikers can sleep as much as they want.

Then again, I did learn how to sleep standing up with my eyes open, which I think is the true sign of someone who's been through boot in any of the services.

Go Navy!

thecaptain
11-23-2009, 09:39
I went thru marine boot camp In 1965 in August....It is pretty simple hiking is fun however hard at times boot camp is hard and sucks

Grampie
11-23-2009, 09:46
You can't compare the two. One is an apple and the other is an orange.
Boot camp / basic training they control you every minute of your live. A thru-hike you do all the control. You know..Hike your own hike.

Bearpaw
11-23-2009, 10:11
Training to become a Marine was SO much tougher than thru-hiking that there was no comparison.

Physically the training was the toughest thing I had ever done at the time. But mentally, the stress was even tougher. I served from 89-99.

Having just gotten out of the Marine Corps, my thru-hike was literally a vacation. Physically, a mere 50-pound pack was mellow, and the mental and emotional stress was almost non-existent. It was one of the greatest periods in my life. It was all about me, without having to look after a bunch of young Marines.

Bearpaw
11-23-2009, 10:18
Well, in the interest of not wanting to stir up the age old debate between which branch is "harder", I didn't really mention it. I personally went through Marine Corps boot camp in '98, so that's my only experience on the matter.

You would most likely find a thru-hike to be considerably easier.

Many Walks
11-23-2009, 10:52
Training to become a Marine was SO much tougher than thru-hiking that there was no comparison.

Physically the training was the toughest thing I had ever done at the time. But mentally, the stress was even tougher. I served from 89-99.

Having just gotten out of the Marine Corps, my thru-hike was literally a vacation. Physically, a mere 50-pound pack was mellow, and the mental and emotional stress was almost non-existent. It was one of the greatest periods in my life. It was all about me, without having to look after a bunch of young Marines.
Exactly! And I'll add, no one told me I'd probably get killed after completing a thru like they did in Boot Camp. Kinda works on your mind a little, but *** after a while we didn't care anyway just figured it would happen so we didn't worry about it. 1968-72

ShelterLeopard
11-23-2009, 12:02
Maybe a hike, physically. (I haven't done my thru yet though, so we'll see) In a thru hike, no one is forcing you to do it, so the major issue for some is willpower. On the other hand, a hike has lots of small rewards, views, town stops, not taking town stops and zeroing in the woods, the people, etc... All depends on how you see it.

Conclusion, I think a hike is harder than boot camp, but I'd definitely pcik the thru over boot camp, however much harder it may be.

Of course, I've never been to boot camp.

rpenczek
11-23-2009, 12:18
While in Boot Camp, I would think to myself, they are not going to kill me, it will end in a short time (8 weeks for me - Navy), its just 8 weeks of football practice and lots of class time with little sleep. Eight weeks is noting. I could stand on my head for eight weeks if necessary.

Now thru hiking, seems a bit longer time lined and I am not sure what that does to a person's mind. Can you look at six months the same way as eight weeks?

I do not find hiking anymore physical than boot camp, but I would think, at least in the beginning (heck until NY) about the time remaining (6 months of this, can I do it?)

To me the mental is always harder than the physical, so in my opinion (never thrued) it the thru-hike would be harder.

Finally, for those of you whe served (even in the Air Force :) ), thank you.

JokerJersey
11-23-2009, 12:28
i spent 3 months on Parris Island back in 77. it was hot

I dunno if I would have rather put up with the heat or the damn cold we had. I was there from Nov-Feb, then at MCT in Feb-Mar. I don't care what anyone says, but NC at the end of Feb is farking COLD. We had snow twice during the three-day war and digging in that ground was TOUGH. At least it knocked down the sand fleas a bit, but hitting almost frozen ground coming off the top of the A-frame does NOT feel good on your feet. :D

Jerky Mike
11-23-2009, 12:32
Thanks to all that is & has served. As for me United States Navy 1986 to 1996.
Enjoyed every minute in the service.
My vote ----> Boot Camp ----> NO FAMILY with you, now thats HARD !
On the trail you have family and a cell phone.
And ''magic'' in places on the trail.
For the best part in the woods, good people to be around.

bigcranky
11-23-2009, 12:53
No contest, the hike is way easier. It's just walking. Boot camp was cold and hard and a real PITA.

Lone Wolf
11-23-2009, 12:57
yup. thru-hiking is pretty damn easy

harryfred
11-23-2009, 13:01
You can't compare the two. One is an apple and the other is an orange.
Boot camp / basic training they control you every minute of your live. A thru-hike you do all the control. You know..Hike your own hike.
Must agree. I have not done a though hike, but I love to hike. Boot camp was rough,Great Lakes June- Aug '78) but some of the stuff I had to deal with during my eight years, after boot camp, was much worse, some of which I don't even want to remember. And many of you Marines know exactly what I'm saying.

Jester2000
11-23-2009, 13:41
Haven't gone through boot camp. But I would guess that boot camp is more difficult, but a thru-hike is easier to quit.

All in all, though, I'd say that if you have the mental toughness to get through boot camp, you'd do fine on the trail.

And as an aside, it's very easy to compare apples to oranges, and horses to zebras.

randyg45
11-23-2009, 13:55
1968-72

Many Walks, I'm not saying there's ever an easy time, but that was sure one tough time to become a Marine.

As far as the general discussion, I went through Army Basic starting in July '71 and Jump School starting in Dec of the same year. My personal opinion is that if a thru was as hard now as Jump School was then the dropout rate would approach %100.

max patch
11-23-2009, 14:24
Thru hikes are easy.

jersey joe
11-23-2009, 14:43
I didn't find my thru-hike terribly difficult. I wasn't in the military but I don't think I would have found boot camp overly difficult either.

Many Walks
11-23-2009, 14:46
1968-72

Many Walks, I'm not saying there's ever an easy time, but that was sure one tough time to become a Marine.

As far as the general discussion, I went through Army Basic starting in July '71 and Jump School starting in Dec of the same year. My personal opinion is that if a thru was as hard now as Jump School was then the dropout rate would approach %100.
Agreed, Randy. And we're just talking about Boot Camp here, not the 20 mos of VN that followed. Your Jump School couldn't have been an easy avenue either. Thanks for your service! After all that, a thru really is just a walk in the park.

prain4u
12-12-2009, 04:58
Difficult question. Your are comparing apples and oranges and there are so many variables (Military Branch, what year you went to boot camp, what time of the year you attended boot camp, how old you were on your thru hike, etc.). Thus, it is really a very individualized answer. I haven't done a thru hike (yet)--but I have hiked lots of miles and I have been thru boot camp. So, here is my guess......

I am guessing that the thru hike will be tougher for me. 1) The hike will be longer in duration than boot camp. 2) I can leave the trail whenever I want if it gets too bad. So, the hike will require MORE mental discipline than boot camp. 3) I will probably be missing my wife and kids back home. Most people don't have a wife and kids while in boot camp. 4) I will be age 50 when I do my thru hike. Thus, I will be hiking with a much older body than the body that went through boot camp.

Painted Turtle
12-12-2009, 09:33
Ok let me open a can of worms. I went to boot camp in 1964 when Boot camp was for real. I hear that is no lomger the case. It prepares you for combat and in in no way shape or form is combat hiking.

Can opened.

Now as far as which is harder. I have not done a thru, have only done two weeks at a time. Boot camp teaches one to hang in there mentaly which is a big part of hiking if not the biggest. It also teaches you to rely on each other and take care of each other. NOT part of hiking. Boot camp teaches you to adapt, improvise and over come, weather, being tired, hunger etc. All of which are part of hiking.

All of my years hiking and shuttling meeting people I have found that the best apapted from the very start are our vets. God Bless them all.

So the nod goes to Boot Camp. Have fun yelling :)

emerald
12-12-2009, 09:45
[Boot camp] teaches you to rely on each other and take care of each other. NOT part of hiking.

Not according to my take on AT club hiking, long distance hiking or this website. I am surprised you could reach such a conclusion. Care to explain?

While hikers should be self-reliant and be prepared to take care of themselves so as to not burden others, they should also be prepared to assist others when able and welcomed. Assistance is readily given and received.

Bearpaw
12-12-2009, 09:53
Not according to my take on AT club hiking, long distance hiking or this website. I am surprised you could come to such a conclusion. Care to explain?

How many thru-hikers hike with a partner? Not too many. Never heard of a club thru-hike. The fact that I didn't have to fuss over the welfare of my unit and really any body but me was one of the greatest liberating issues of my thru-hike.

emerald
12-12-2009, 10:33
Most through hikers hike in the company of others and benefit from interacting with other hikers in a variety of ways.

Obviously I wasn't referring to what most people mean when they use the term through hike in my last post when I mentioned club hikes. Since the post which immediately preceded mine was by someone who claimed no hiking experience involving sections longer than several weeks, he wasn't either when he referred to his own hiking experience.

"Through hikes" aren't uninterrupted marches from one terminus to the other. They are comprised of many successive shorter hikes.

Too much effort is devoted toward trying to distinguish between through hikes and section hikes and to elevate the through hike to some lofty status. There are some notable differences between the two, but they are more the same than they are different.

Bearpaw
12-12-2009, 10:49
Most through hikers hike in the company of others and benefit from interacting with other hikers in a variety of ways.

And this is done by choice. Completely different from the requirements of life in a military unit.


"Through hikes" aren't uninterrupted marches from one terminus to the other. They are comprised of many successive shorter hikes.

Wow. Really? Thanks for the edification Shades of Gray. Perhaps you should save your typical condescension for those who don't know any better.

Pedaling Fool
12-12-2009, 10:52
There is no comparison in looking out for one another on a hike, regardless of how tight or loose that hiking group may be and the "looking out for one another" mentality in the military.

In the military it’s a mindset and a very proactive part of every exercise/mission; it’s more of a reactive action on a hike, not entirely, but compared to the military there is not much of a comparison.

Painted Turtle
12-12-2009, 11:01
Not according to my take on AT club hiking, long distance hiking or this website. I am surprised you could reach such a conclusion. Care to explain?

While hikers should be self-reliant and be prepared to take care of themselves so as to not burden others, they should also be prepared to assist others when able and welcomed.


Helping others is not really the issue here. I do whole heartly agree with you on the helping part. I have more then once dropped plans go go to the aid of a hiker. In fact just a few months ago I dropped dinner plans and drove to VT to pick up a hiker that got hurt.

Friendships are made on the trail, but very very few if any totally rely on each other. Those kind start out together. In fact the friend you make this week may be miles ahead of you next week or behind you never to be seen again. There are always exceptions to a rule but overall there are very few in this case. Your well being on the trail is basically yours. You can not form the bonds with another as you do in boot camp and on

superman
12-12-2009, 11:47
military...re-supply was provided
thru hike...had to get to a town to re-supply

military...provides all gear and clothing Thru hike...had to buy my own

military...had maps and direction as to where to go and what to do thru hike...I listened to my dog

military...meals were catered, mess hall or c-rations, every meal was a banquet thru hike...damn crappy hiker garbage

military...got paid to exercise thru hike....had to pay to do it

military...every day was an adventure thru-hike...same old, same old


military provided lodging thru hike...had to pay for a room

:welcome

sbhikes
12-12-2009, 11:47
I have never been to boot camp, but I would think that boot camp is harder.

Hiking only uses your legs. Boot camp would make me do push-ups and I would fail.

Hiking is peaceful. Boot camp has mean people yelling at you.

Hiking is pretty. Boot camp is usually some place kinda ugly.

Nobody tells me what to do when I hike. But I am a pretty ruthless taskmistress. Still, I think I'm easier on myself than a drill instructor.

On the other hand, I did do a 24 mile day hike once and there was an ex-marine on it who totally fell apart. He complained a lot and had to be helped the last few miles. A lady on the hike did the whole hike with no complaining in perfect make-up and hair, which she touched up at breaks. She probably went jogging when she got home. Never seen anything like that.

Tenderheart
12-12-2009, 12:13
IMO, a thru is much more physically demanding, while basic training is probably more mental.

litefoot 2000

Mags
12-12-2009, 12:31
re: Air Force

I'm sure the Marines who were patched up at the Balad hospital (
before their trip to Frankfurt) by my Air Force medic brother thought he was not "really" in the military too. :rolleyes:

buff_jeff
12-12-2009, 19:30
I think many people who can complete a thru-hike could not physically complete boot or basic. I also think many who go through basic or boot could not handle some of the mental aspects of long distance hiking. There really isn't any comparison, though.

If it answers the question, I'd rather thru hike the AT than go through boot or basic. I like being able to make my own decisions.

The Weasel
12-12-2009, 20:04
Ok let me open a can of worms. I went to boot camp in 1964 when Boot camp was for real. I hear that is no lomger the case. ***

I'll pass your opinion on to any Marines I see from Pendleton or who have "camped" at MCRD San Diego out here. I'm sure they will express how much they agree with you in an appropriate manner.

As for a thru hike, any comparison to any service's training program to a thru hike is simply foolish, except for one thing: Both require people who want to test their own limits, and, perhaps, find them. But a thru isn't even in the same league.

TW

SassyWindsor
12-12-2009, 21:10
I have twin brothers who are members of the SAS, I remember visiting them after their initial training, I assume it was boot camp. I almost didn't recognize them (in looks and disposition), and I wondered if they recognized each other, and they are twins. I'll bet that a thru hike would be somewhat of a cakewalk compared to most intensive military/survival type training. The initial training time probably takes as long as some thru-hikes.

Pedaling Fool
12-13-2009, 08:40
I'll pass your opinion on to any Marines I see from Pendleton or who have "camped" at MCRD San Diego out here. I'm sure they will express how much they agree with you in an appropriate manner...TW
My uncle went to Marine boot camp during this time; today's boot camp does not compare.

white_russian
12-13-2009, 11:39
Physically hiking the trail was tougher than Army BCT simply because I could push myself to the total point of exhaustion. In BCT the drill sargents would push a certain muscles to exhaustion, but never my entire body. If my arms went limp after push ups I still got a roof over my head and three meals a day and whatever the minimum allowed sleep that regs stated we must get. I followed directions pretty well, always passed training requirements without any problem, never gave them any trouble so the drill sargents never gave me any special attention. If you cooperate with the drill sargents BCT is easy because they will have some 18 year old kid straight out of high school with an attitude problem that they have fix the problems from negligent parenting.

My vote is for can't compare because they are very different. One is a vacation with like minded company and the other is a job with a bunch of people who have varying reasons for being there. Different motivating factors.

Tipi Walter
12-13-2009, 12:01
I went thru marine boot camp In 1965 in August....It is pretty simple hiking is fun however hard at times boot camp is hard and sucks


You can't compare the two. One is an apple and the other is an orange.
Boot camp / basic training they control you every minute of your live. A thru-hike you do all the control. You know..Hike your own hike.

Agreement here. I did my basic training in '69 with Air Force "drill sergeants" or "flightline babysitters" or whatever you call them, but definitely not "Drill Instructors". Bottom line is, on the AT you're free, in boot camp you have lost your freedom. It used to be you could not "opt out" of training, or if you did you went to jail. Now, things are different, I've heard you have a two week window to bug out if things get too rough.

My choices in 69 were real simple: Canada, jail or the military. I went reluctantly and had to repeat basic training due to a "poor attitude", so towards the end when my group was cycling out, a car pulled up(none of us ever rode in a car during basic--so you knew something serious was up), and someone told me to get in and I was moved with all my gear to a new training unit in their first few days of training. Set Back! And bummed! I was proud for the bad attitude(my Daddy didn't raise no fool--WW2 Navy vet)but it was hard to start over. Military bearing? Not quite.

Eventually graduated and Honorably Discharged after four years of service. "Ain't No Use In Looking Down/Ain't No Discharge On The Ground!" Marching chant. The only good one I remember.

stick man
12-13-2009, 18:40
USMC bootcamp 1982 thru hike 09 loved them equal only diff is your age MC at 18 at at 45 it's all easy mind over matter you don't mind it don;t matter pain is your friend you can count on pain to always be there if it was easy everybody could do it.

stick man
12-13-2009, 18:45
they both have great food Mmmmmmmm

Trailbender
12-17-2009, 05:14
On the other hand, I did do a 24 mile day hike once and there was an ex-marine on it who totally fell apart. He complained a lot and had to be helped the last few miles. A lady on the hike did the whole hike with no complaining in perfect make-up and hair, which she touched up at breaks. She probably went jogging when she got home. Never seen anything like that.

He was probably lying. That sounds nothing like an "ex-marine", and I have known a few in my life. I was Army, BCT at Benning 2003, started in May, the worst part was the boredom. All my DS were infantry, Rangers, and SF, so they were all trying to outdo each other. The lack of sleep and boredom were the worst parts. Iraq was a lot harder.

Donde
12-18-2009, 04:03
Total apples and oranges scenario but I would note,

Hiking is very physically challenging but much less stress than boot. On the other boot would be the easiest thing in the world if I'd understood before what I understood after: follow simple instructions. Hiking is similarly simple just keep walking.
Jump school was a ****ing joke when I was there we ran (we ran alot and it sucked but it was pretty simple) for 3 weeks and practiced falling.

To all three I must quote the black hat:
"Too ****ing Easy Airborne"

Wolf - 23000
12-18-2009, 05:31
I've done both. Completed AT = 5 times, PCT = 3 times, LT = 5 times, JMT = 4 times, etc.

Basic Training I've completed 9 cycle. 1 as a trainee and 8 cycles as a DS.

My vote is for thru-hiking. As a thru-hiker, I had to have the self discipline to keep going even in the tough times - To keep going when it was raining/snowing out, or if I was bang up from the trail. While in the Army I did one of my toughest hikes the state of Maine in the winter. It helped me get in the best shape of my life - even by Army standards.

My first time doing basic training, I had already completed most of my long distance hiking. I found Basic Training to be a breeze. The Drill SGT told us were to be, what to do. We didn't have to worry about having a roof over our head, getting our next meal, water. All we had to do is what we were told and do. The never quit attitude that is taught in the Army, I already had from thru-hiking. Later on I became a Drill SGT training new soldiers to have that same never quit attitude the trail had given me.

Wolf

WalkingStick75
12-18-2009, 09:16
Anyone that has served will tell you no comparison.

jersey joe
12-18-2009, 10:12
My vote is for thru-hiking. As a thru-hiker, I had to have the self discipline to keep going even in the tough times - To keep going when it was raining/snowing out, or if I was bang up from the trail. Wolf
I've never done basic, but this is what I would expect my answer would be if I had.

Yukon
12-18-2009, 11:23
When you're in the military you can be put in life or death situations. When your thru-hiking your out enjoying the woods. How is this even a question??

P.S.- I did Air Force Basic Training in 97', the only hard part was being homesick.

Trailbender
12-19-2009, 16:43
I've done both. Completed AT = 5 times, PCT = 3 times, LT = 5 times, JMT = 4 times, etc.

Basic Training I've completed 9 cycle. 1 as a trainee and 8 cycles as a DS.

My vote is for thru-hiking. As a thru-hiker, I had to have the self discipline to keep going even in the tough times - To keep going when it was raining/snowing out, or if I was bang up from the trail. While in the Army I did one of my toughest hikes the state of Maine in the winter. It helped me get in the best shape of my life - even by Army standards.

My first time doing basic training, I had already completed most of my long distance hiking. I found Basic Training to be a breeze. The Drill SGT told us were to be, what to do. We didn't have to worry about having a roof over our head, getting our next meal, water. All we had to do is what we were told and do. The never quit attitude that is taught in the Army, I already had from thru-hiking. Later on I became a Drill SGT training new soldiers to have that same never quit attitude the trail had given me.

Wolf

Thanks for being a drill sergeant. People may hate you while they are in basic, but you are looked up to long afterwards.

Miner
12-19-2009, 17:13
I don't see how a thru-hike could be harder unless you are trying to set the speed record for a trail and thus are hiking nonstop all day/everyday with little to no breaks or zero days. When you thru-hike, you can choose how late you sleep in and how far you want to hike. You can choose to take a leave of absence from the trail whenever you want and spend as many days as you want.

Isn't boot camp more like a forced march all day where if you feel tired, you just can't take a break or decide today will be a short day?

Wolf - 23000
12-24-2009, 00:00
Anyone that has served will tell you no comparison.

I'm serving. I've been serving for nearly 11 years now. I've also done my time on the trail as well.

Wolf

Wolf - 23000
12-24-2009, 00:06
When you're in the military you can be put in life or death situations. When your thru-hiking your out enjoying the woods. How is this even a question??

P.S.- I did Air Force Basic Training in 97', the only hard part was being homesick.

The number of soldiers that die in Basic Training is EXTREMELY few compare to the millions of soldiers in all branches that have gone through. I don't know the numbers but I think it is a safe bet to say more people are killed in the mountains then that have gone through Basic Training.:-?
Wolf

take-a-knee
12-24-2009, 00:30
I've done both. Completed AT = 5 times, PCT = 3 times, LT = 5 times, JMT = 4 times, etc.

Basic Training I've completed 9 cycle. 1 as a trainee and 8 cycles as a DS.

My vote is for thru-hiking. As a thru-hiker, I had to have the self discipline to keep going even in the tough times - To keep going when it was raining/snowing out, or if I was bang up from the trail. While in the Army I did one of my toughest hikes the state of Maine in the winter. It helped me get in the best shape of my life - even by Army standards.

My first time doing basic training, I had already completed most of my long distance hiking. I found Basic Training to be a breeze. The Drill SGT told us were to be, what to do. We didn't have to worry about having a roof over our head, getting our next meal, water. All we had to do is what we were told and do. The never quit attitude that is taught in the Army, I already had from thru-hiking. Later on I became a Drill SGT training new soldiers to have that same never quit attitude the trail had given me.

Wolf

Put in a 4187 for SFAS and give us a report when you get back.

Wolf - 23000
12-24-2009, 01:22
I don't see how a thru-hike could be harder unless you are trying to set the speed record for a trail and thus are hiking nonstop all day/everyday with little to no breaks or zero days. When you thru-hike, you can choose how late you sleep in and how far you want to hike. You can choose to take a leave of absence from the trail whenever you want and spend as many days as you want.

Isn't boot camp more like a forced march all day where if you feel tired, you just can't take a break or decide today will be a short day?

Miner,

That is a fairy tale. In Basic Training the "forced march all day" that you are talking about consist of a 3K, 5K, 8K, 2*10K and finally the big one a whopping 15K (a little over 9 miles) road march. We also do take 15 minutes breaks for ever hour walking. Most thru-hikers will cover more miles on a daily basic than even the longest road march in Basic Training.

Ok lets reverse the issues - the things you have in Basic Training that you don't always have available on the trail. On the trail, you don't always access to water or shelter. If you running into trouble, there is no always help available. In Basic Training you don't have to worry about all that. In Basic Training you have a Drill SGTs whoes primary job is to make sure soldiers are kept safe. On a road march, there is a 500 gal drum (called a water buffalo) following the soldiers around to keep them hydrated. On most days, Basic Training soldiers sleep indoors were it is nice and warm compare to the average northbounder who is sleeping out in the freezing cold for the first couple months. For southbounders the same can be said for the last leg of their trip.

Should we also look at the access soldiers have to the Drill SGT to help them fix their problems. As a Drill SGT I've helped soldiers with everything from boot problems, properly fitting of their ruck sack, how to set up a proper shelter (among other things). Skills most hikers will either learn the hard way or pay a LOT of money to have someone teach them.

Basic Training really is not that hard. Even as a soldier in training, I was really disappointed in how easy it really was.

Wolf

Wolf - 23000
12-24-2009, 01:31
Put in a 4187 for SFAS and give us a report when you get back.

The question was which one is harder, Basic Training or thru-hiking.

And yes, I have put in a 4187 before for SFAS as well as others. Some of the more serious injuries I've had while backpacking would make it tough to be selected.

Wolf

oxxo
12-24-2009, 02:42
If I were before a judge and he allowed me to choose between the sentencing of completing Army Basic Training School or completing the Appalachian Trail, I would choose the Trail with no hesitation.

take-a-knee
12-24-2009, 12:04
Miner,

That is a fairy tale. In Basic Training the "forced march all day" that you are talking about consist of a 3K, 5K, 8K, 2*10K and finally the big one a whopping 15K (a little over 9 miles) road march. We also do take 15 minutes breaks for ever hour walking. Most thru-hikers will cover more miles on a daily basic than even the longest road march in Basic Training.

Ok lets reverse the issues - the things you have in Basic Training that you don't always have available on the trail. On the trail, you don't always access to water or shelter. If you running into trouble, there is no always help available. In Basic Training you don't have to worry about all that. In Basic Training you have a Drill SGTs whoes primary job is to make sure soldiers are kept safe. On a road march, there is a 500 gal drum (called a water buffalo) following the soldiers around to keep them hydrated. On most days, Basic Training soldiers sleep indoors were it is nice and warm compare to the average northbounder who is sleeping out in the freezing cold for the first couple months. For southbounders the same can be said for the last leg of their trip.

Should we also look at the access soldiers have to the Drill SGT to help them fix their problems. As a Drill SGT I've helped soldiers with everything from boot problems, properly fitting of their ruck sack, how to set up a proper shelter (among other things). Skills most hikers will either learn the hard way or pay a LOT of money to have someone teach them.

Basic Training really is not that hard. Even as a soldier in training, I was really disappointed in how easy it really was.

Wolf

Wolf is right, the Drills hold your hand, especially now. No one makes you keep hiking. That's what makes something like SF selection more analagous to a thru hike (though I haven't thrued, maybe never will), no one is there to encourage you, in fact you are "encouraged" to quit.

lurpranger
12-24-2009, 12:15
I'm not sure if basic training can compare with a thru hike,the army only has 1 course that teaches hiking and that's ranger school. CLASS 1-81 RLTW

JokerJersey
12-24-2009, 12:30
Well, I guess it all depends too on where you were at the time you went to basic. For me, I was the typical "pothead" kid from highschool. No sports, no outdoor activities (outside of swimming in the summer), drank, smoked, hated authority...etc, etc. Hell, I reported to boot camp wearing baggy skater jeans and a Rage Against the Machine t-shirt. So when I hit those yellow footprints on Parris Island, I thought I had just entered the 7th circle of hell.

Even I have to admit, the physical stuff becomes easier and easier as time went on. Your body adapts but you aren't really given a choice between quitting and going home, like you would have on the trail. Yeah, there are "rules" concerning how hard they can push someone in a given timeframe, but all of us who have been there know they can come up with some pretty inventive ways to "circumvent" the rules.

The mental part was the hardest thing for me. Don't get me wrong, I remember mornings being so tired and sore that my legs collapsed when I hit the floor. But, like I said, that slowly but surely went away. I imagine the same will hold true the longer you get into a thru. The mental aspect of constantly having someone in your face, barking orders, and being broken down in the first 6 weeks was TOUGH for me. I was the idiot who laughed at a DI, the one who asked "Why?", and the one who seemed to be doing ok, only to screw up at the worst possible time. That kind of stuff won't happen on a thru.

I can see where the lack of outside motivation could be a big handicap on a thru as compared to basic, and those kinds of things are what I was looking for when I posted this. I'm not of the mindset that just because I completed basic and a tour in Iraq that I'll be on easy street when it comes to the trail. I know and understand that if everyone who wanted to finish the trail did, then 70% wouldn't drop out. The reality is that they do.

Perhaps I should have phrased the question as, "Do you think your military experience gave you an edge mentally when it came to thru-hiking?" And even that question is subjective to each person. Just looking for random thoughts on the subject. Thanks to all who answered, I appreciate the time.

Semper Fi.

Wolf - 23000
12-24-2009, 14:58
Perhaps I should have phrased the question as, "Do you think your military experience gave you an edge mentally when it came to thru-hiking?" And even that question is subjective to each person. Just looking for random thoughts on the subject. Thanks to all who answered, I appreciate the time.

Semper Fi.

JokerJersey,

To answer your new question, no I don't think military experience give any service members an advantage when it comes to thru-hiking. There are many retired military men/women that end up quitting attempting to thru-hike the trail.

When I tell my peers in the Army so of the hikes I've done they think I'm crazy while here I'm just another long hiker. Most soldiers tell me they could never do something like that. Most of them look at it as to hard physically or get bored to easy.

I did the reverse of what many hikers do meaning I did most of my long distance hiking first before joining the US Army. From my point of view, I think hiking gave me the determination to be very successful in the military. In my career, I've always been viewed as really standing out as someone that never gives up in everything I do. It one of the reason that help me be selected as a Drill SGT. It is a trait that many leaders look for that not every has.

Wolf

mweinstone
12-24-2009, 23:10
humping my stupid 65 lb pack as a fifteen year old hiker in pa summer and winter was way way way way way harder than being yelled at by a marine telling you to climb a net or force march.learning navigation was way harder than windage and elevation. and chow halls compared to a food bag?! duh!!!!

paris island got vending machines. the AT dont.

Wolf - 23000
12-25-2009, 02:10
humping my stupid 65 lb pack as a fifteen year old hiker in pa summer and winter was way way way way way harder than being yelled at by a marine telling you to climb a net or force march.learning navigation was way harder than windage and elevation. and chow halls compared to a food bag?! duh!!!!

paris island got vending machines. the AT dont.

mweinstone,


Are you talking out your butt again? Where it true, I do think thru-hiking is harder than Basic Training, it is still not the cake walk you're trying to make it out to be.


I'll start with your 65 pounds. 65 pounds is a lot of weight to carry on your back especially at the 15 but every time you throw something inside your pack you did so knowing you would have to carry it x amount of miles. In Basic Training and in the Army in general, the military decide what equipment a soldier needs to carry. The IBA (Body Armor) alone start at 35 pounds, add in the combat load and you're talking about 50 pounds. Throw in the pack an your talking around 85 pounds that an average soldier is carrying.


As for the chow, well in Basic Training you don't really have time to do anything except get your chow and get out. Taste it later.


I haven't been to Paris Island but I'm sure there are vending machines. With that said I'm sure the Marines also have the same policy as the Army, Basic Training soldiers are not allowed to use them. If they are caught, they will receive some "Corrective Training".


Wolf

mweinstone
12-25-2009, 07:23
nothing i said makes sence. cause their are more vending machines on the at and you can only use them on paris island on the day you stop being a recruit and join the fleet. and yeah, i forgot my rifle and ammo and all that crap when i was compareing my pack to my alice. duh wolf, im old and forgot. and if we think about it, hikeing while being yelled at is always harder. as is wearing combat boots. i think recruits are dummer than thru hikers if that counts. maby from the yelling. or just youth. but i do remember running with my platoon and thinking how much more mentaly okay with exersize i was than my chums cause my hikeing had prepared me. an carrying weight was part fun to me and not to them. as were c rats. i liked em. others who maby never camped before, didnt. how spoiled we are determines our ability to not complaine and suffer in times of stress.

Lone Wolf
12-25-2009, 07:32
boot camp and hiking are both easy physically

mweinstone
12-25-2009, 07:39
hardest things were loss of freedom and haveing a dude in a hat tell you when you can eat. the hunger while on guard duty. the being awake when tired. but yeah, the obstical course was easy. but tireing. and hard as crap at the time. and scary to a point even for 17 and 18 year old privates.but the day you graduate, you feel impowered phisically and able to be yelled at with skill. actually , its a cool feeling walking out of the tourture chamber a proude servent of babys and old ladys. first thing ya do is help folks across streets and stand up straight. later ya go back to your old self. lol.

Wolf - 23000
12-25-2009, 14:51
boot camp and hiking are both easy physically

LW, I agree with you but you be surprised how many soldiers just coming in can't do some very basic stuff physically. Soldiers that could not even do 13 push-ups in 2 minutes or hold themselves up for even 30 seconds. Or had soldiers that couldn't even finish the 2 mile run.

I'm sure many (not all) of the new thru-hikers are not in the greatest shape either. It sad to say but many of the new generation are growing up playing video games as a life style. They are in extremely poor shape. Doing something like the AT or Boot Camp is a big wake up call for them.

Wolf

mweinstone
12-25-2009, 15:00
thats what im sayin wolf. watchin kids wine about 40 sit ups or 20 pull ups without any understanding that they can improve and wineing has not to do with the prosses. but folks get weaker as time comes to an end. soon wars will be fought and won by who wines less.

Lone Wolf
12-25-2009, 15:10
i older i get the tougher i become

mweinstone
12-25-2009, 16:14
yeah that makes sence old man. whatever.
people get weaker as time goes by by.

Lone Wolf
12-25-2009, 16:58
you're wrong

Wolf - 23000
12-25-2009, 17:30
yeah that makes sence old man. whatever.
people get weaker as time goes by by.

I have to agree with Lone Wolf on this. When working as a Drill SGT, I was twice the age or close to it as many soldiers just coming in. I was still stronger, could run faster than most of them. I'm in better shape now than when I was in high school.

There are many older folks that keep themselves in shape that are in much better shape than the younger guys. Dave Horton for example was 47 when he did his speed hike.

Wolf

mweinstone
12-25-2009, 17:56
im 48 now. it takes like two twelve year olds to beat me.

Boliche
12-25-2009, 17:59
Tougher : Boot Camp or Thru-Hike?

I think the correct answer is yes!

mweinstone
12-25-2009, 18:05
all my streanght now comes from knowlage of how to use it. but my body sucks at this age. yes i could woop my 18 year old self. but he could have been trainned to woop me as well. just wasnt. to woop an old man with a lifetime of exsperience takes more than basic. ait maby yes.

takethisbread
12-27-2009, 07:33
Never been through boot camp, but it appears more mentally taxing, because you are put in psychological chaos.

Physically, a thru hike appears a lot harder. They both involve lack of sleep. Even in boot camp, they likely wouldn't make someone hike a 4/5 days on end in rain then make them sleep in it. That's extreme, and it happens to virtually everyone on the trail at some point, and sometimes it occurrs frequently.

At least I don't think they make you do that. A mattress and a roof makes a big difference.

Colter
12-27-2009, 12:34
boot camp and hiking are both easy physically

When I went to boot camp we were pushed until we had nothing left, over and over, often in 100+ degrees in high humidity. Didn't matter how tough you were.

And I'd bet few people who have done an AT thru-hike would say it's "easy." Compared to most physical challenges people face in the modern world, a thru-hike is plenty difficult physically.

It's all subjective. A big difference is discipline. In basic training the discipline is provided, on a thru-hike you have to provide your own discipline. When I went to basic, failure was not an option. On a thru-hike, it is. Thus in my experience 90+% made it through Basic, and maybe 20% completed their thru-hike.

Lone Wolf
12-27-2009, 14:05
Never been through boot camp, but it appears more mentally taxing

Physically, a thru hike appears a lot harder. They both involve lack of sleep. Even in boot camp, they likely wouldn't make someone hike a 4/5 days on end in rain then make them sleep in it. That's extreme, and it happens to virtually everyone on the trail at some point, and sometimes it occurrs frequently.



you haven't been to boot camp and haven't thru-hiked

nobody is forced to hike 4-5 days in rain on a thru-hike. it's a choice. in 5 thru-hikes i've never walked more than 2 days in the rain. i was smart enough to stay out of the rain. and how does a thru-hike involve lack of sleep?

takethisbread
12-27-2009, 14:34
you haven't been to boot camp and haven't thru-hiked

nobody is forced to hike 4-5 days in rain on a thru-hike. it's a choice. in 5 thru-hikes i've never walked more than 2 days in the rain. i was smart enough to stay out of the rain. and how does a thru-hike involve lack of sleep?

Hey grizzly Adams, sure you don't have to hike in the rain, but many have to
Because they have to return to life. I have only sectioned hiked, and have hiked in rain for four days, because I had to get back to a job. When I thru. Hike I will need to do the same. I have a job. And as a lifelong resident of New England and a survivor of the Spring of 2009, we know it can rain for week or more at a time every spring. Not every experience is the same as yours. I would say someone who can casually thru-hike 5 times, all in their prime years, would be an extroadinary situation. For most of the people it's a once in a lifetime venture. Nor does it change the basic premise that a thru hike is physically challenging, and for me and I thought most, perhaps mistakenly, sleep is much less in duration and reinvigorating outdoors, than in my bed at home. A stretch, I know. As the son of a Navy Veteran of War
And the brother of the Army soldiers who have served our country for a combined 44 years, and continue to do so, I think I have a good idea, that boot camp was pretty hard, and since I have sectioned hiked with my bro, and talked of it a bit. I will call him tonite, if you wish and ask him if I render an opinion on the matter, if you wish. :rolleyes:

Wolf - 23000
12-27-2009, 14:36
And I'd bet few people who have done an AT thru-hike would say it's "easy." Compared to most physical challenges people face in the modern world, a thru-hike is plenty difficult physically.



Well Colter, I'm one of the few that did my thru-hiking first before Basic Training and I would say it was easy. Thru-hiking got me in great shape physically and helped me get through boot camp even at an older age.

Wolf

Lone Wolf
12-27-2009, 14:40
Hey grizzly Adams, sure you don't have to hike in the rain, but many have to
Because they have to return to life. I have only sectioned hiked, and have hiked in rain for four days, because I had to get back to a job. When I thru. Hike I will need to do the same. I have a job. And as a lifelong resident of New England and a survivor of the Spring of 2009, we know it can rain for week or more at a time every spring. Not every experience is the same as yours. I would say someone who can casually thru-hike 5 times, all in their prime years, would be an extroadinary situation. For most of the people it's a once in a lifetime venture. Nor does it change the basic premise that a thru hike is physically challenging, and for me and I thought most, perhaps mistakenly, sleep is much less in duration and reinvigorating outdoors, than in my bed at home. A stretch, I know. As the son of a Navy Veteran of War
And the brother of the Army soldiers who have served our country for a combined 44 years, and continue to do so, I think I have a good idea, that boot camp was pretty hard, and since I have sectioned hiked with my bro, and talked of it a bit. I will call him tonite, if you wish and ask him if I render an opinion on the matter, if you wish. :rolleyes:

some folks are smarter and tougher than others. i'm very smart and very tough. why the angry tone? :)

takethisbread
12-27-2009, 14:47
some folks are smarter and tougher than others. i'm very smart and very tough. why the angry tone? :)

Cause you're a pompous donk.

Congrats on your superior intelligence and astounding physical conditioning. I am just a regular person. If I see you out there, I will have you sign your memoirs for me.

Lone Wolf
12-27-2009, 14:52
donk isn't a word. can't find it in the dictionary

Lone Wolf
12-27-2009, 14:55
donk isn't a word. can't find it in the dictionary

and pompous? hardly. just self-assured and tough. fact

Tipi Walter
12-27-2009, 14:56
Cause you're a pompous donk.

Congrats on your superior intelligence and astounding physical conditioning. I am just a regular person. If I see you out there, I will have you sign your memoirs for me.

Got a good belly laugh from your last line. But hey, takethisbread, for what ever reason you've decided to make work and a job more important than hiking and backpacking, that's your choice. Turn it around and work minimally and see how little money you can make and then get out more. Just a thought.

Tinker
12-27-2009, 14:58
Never did either. Life's tough enough. Low draft # kept me out of 'Nam in the 1970s, and low funds keep me from thruhiking.
Btw: Do you walk to work or pack a lunch? (makes more sense than the OP, I think).
Oh, also - WHY??????

Tinker
12-27-2009, 15:00
donk isn't a word. can't find it in the dictionary
Looks as if someone miskeyed.:-? (R isn't anywhere close to N).:-?:-?

Tipi Walter
12-27-2009, 15:05
Looks as if someone miskeyed.:-? (R isn't anywhere close to N).:-?:-?

He could've meant WONK, a stupid person. Or DINK, a Vietnam enemy soldier.

takethisbread
12-27-2009, 15:34
Got a good belly laugh from your last line. But hey, takethisbread, for what ever reason you've decided to make work and a job more important than hiking and backpacking, that's your choice. Turn it around and work minimally and see how little money you can make and then get out more. Just a thought.

Success is not a crime. I apologize for none of it. My life isn't about just me, but a lot of other people who depend on me. I don't judge the way you have chosen to live your life, and nor do I need to be advised on how to live by you. I bump to you so called trail guru's once in a while on the trail, listen painfully for a while then move as far away as possible. Thanks for your thoughts.

Wolf - 23000
12-27-2009, 15:43
You have so many folks here that are saying Boot Camp is harder - many of whom haven't gone through any type of Boot Camp to judge.

Boot Camp is so tought that even someone like Lone Wolf has made it through. A hiker who rarely will hike if it is raining out. Not real hard core if you ask me but it is his hiking style. Each to their own.

Anyway it is interesting to see the perception some people have.:-?

Wolf

Tinker
12-27-2009, 15:49
Success is not a crime. I apologize for none of it. My life isn't about just me, but a lot of other people who depend on me. I don't judge the way you have chosen to live your life, and nor do I need to be advised on how to live by you. I bump to you so called trail guru's once in a while on the trail, listen painfully for a while then move as far away as possible. Thanks for your thoughts.

"Success" is 100% subjective (hate to say it, but "just sayin'"). If a person is happy and doesn't hurt another I'd say it makes him/her a success. If they actually help others (especially strangers and their enemies) I would say that would make them TRULY successful, and if they ask nothing in return for their kindnesses, they are exceptional human beings.
I think we've all met some exceptional folks on the Trail (and other avenues of life). I like to use a quote from "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" - "Be excellent to each other".:)

Lone Wolf
12-27-2009, 16:33
Boot Camp is so tought that even someone like Lone Wolf has made it through. A hiker who rarely will hike if it is raining out. Not real hard core if you ask me but it is his hiking style. Each to their own.



if a person wakes up one morning in his tent and it's 40 degrees and pouring rain out and then packs up his stuff and sets up his stuff 15 miles later in the rain is he hardcore or stupid? a smart person stays in the dry tent, reads and drinks hot drinks all day.

Tinker
12-27-2009, 16:37
if a person wakes up one morning in his tent and it's 40 degrees and pouring rain out and then packs up his stuff and sets up his stuff 15 miles later in the rain is he hardcore or stupid? a smart person stays in the dry tent, reads and drinks hot drinks all day.

......and a REAL smart person stays home, maybe goes into the porch (screened, hopefully), invites some friends over for a bite and a beer, and says a silent prayer for all the suckers out there in the mud.:D

Doooglas
12-27-2009, 16:45
JokerJersey,

To answer your new question, no I don't think military experience give any service members an advantage when it comes to thru-hiking. There are many retired military men/women that end up quitting attempting to thru-hike the trail.

When I tell my peers in the Army so of the hikes I've done they think I'm crazy while here I'm just another long hiker. Most soldiers tell me they could never do something like that. Most of them look at it as to hard physically or get bored to easy.

I did the reverse of what many hikers do meaning I did most of my long distance hiking first before joining the US Army. From my point of view, I think hiking gave me the determination to be very successful in the military. In my career, I've always been viewed as really standing out as someone that never gives up in everything I do. It one of the reason that help me be selected as a Drill SGT. It is a trait that many leaders look for that not every has.

Wolf
Tell them there is ' evil' and people who want to "Take their FreeDumb away".
They'll run 50 miles a day with an ALICE pack,80 lbs., no waist belt.

Like every thing else. It is all in your mind.............

Wolf - 23000
12-28-2009, 00:35
if a person wakes up one morning in his tent and it's 40 degrees and pouring rain out and then packs up his stuff and sets up his stuff 15 miles later in the rain is he hardcore or stupid? a smart person stays in the dry tent, reads and drinks hot drinks all day.

It is only water. So you get wet ... big deal. Part of the thru-hiking experience is hiking in the rain. If you have descent gear it is not a big deal. I've known you've done harder stuff working at Jay Peak making snow. Some of the best of the greatest hikers I met were done while it was raining.


Wolf

wacocelt
12-28-2009, 00:47
Basic training, AIT and Airborne School were all pretty easy for me. They couldn't hit or even cuss by the early 90's and I had been yelled at by scarier looking people with actual ill intent enough that none of that really phased me.

Then again I had no problem hiking the Whites with a broken foor either, so I guess it all comes down to why you're doing what you're doing and what you hope to get out of it...

It really amuses me how you folks constantly try and convince the world that your opinion is more valid than anyone elses, on the internet. Now I've met LoneWolf in the flesh and I respect the man and his life experience, so even though his opinions might rub me wrong on accsion, he has, in my opinion earned them.

He is not here spouting second hand rhetoric he has gleaned from listening to other peoples stories or seen on TV... like so many others do on the internet in general and unfortunately on this site as well.

Wolf - 23000
12-28-2009, 02:32
donk isn't a word. can't find it in the dictionary

Sorry Lone Wolf. donk is a word. I'm not saying I agree with him but it is a word.

donk - American slang for buttocks (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Buttocks)[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donk

Wolf

Wolf - 23000
12-28-2009, 02:56
Basic training, AIT and Airborne School were all pretty easy for me. They couldn't hit or even cuss by the early 90's and I had been yelled at by scarier looking people with actual ill intent enough that none of that really phased me.

Then again I had no problem hiking the Whites with a broken foor either, so I guess it all comes down to why you're doing what you're doing and what you hope to get out of it...

It really amuses me how you folks constantly try and convince the world that your opinion is more valid than anyone elses, on the internet. Now I've met LoneWolf in the flesh and I respect the man and his life experience, so even though his opinions might rub me wrong on accsion, he has, in my opinion earned them.

He is not here spouting second hand rhetoric he has gleaned from listening to other peoples stories or seen on TV... like so many others do on the internet in general and unfortunately on this site as well.

wacocelt,

Which one is harder is really a judgement call and everyone is going to have their own opinion. To have a valid or educated opinion, you should also be able to give reasons why you feel is harder over the other.

Most people replying to this thread, can not compare the two fairly because they haven't done both including yourself. How can someone really have an opinion on how hard something is if they haven't done it before? You can't. Both Lone Wolf, myself and I'm sure a few others are the only one who have done both and can make valid arguments one way or the other.

As for Lone Wolf, I have a lot of respect for L Wolf even if he's not willing to come hiking in the rain with the rest of us. Each to their own. There is only a small few that have both servered their country and gone on to hike as much as he has. He is one of the few here that can really compare the two.

Wolf

fredmugs
12-28-2009, 10:39
I haven't done a thru but I do 150 mile sections and knock out 20 - 25 miles a day. I went through Marine Corps boot camp in 1981. The hikes are easy because I want to do them. Boot camp was easy because it is more of a stamina test than a physical one. Having run cross country and track in high school the boot camp runs were ridiculously easy and it was actually hard trying to go that slowly. When you can do 16:30 (3 miles) on a PFT formation runs suck.

Hiking was hard at first but then I got good at it. 15 mile days used to hurt - now 25 mile days aint *****.

The only part of boot camp that was tough for me was the week we did mess duty. Drill Instructors were funny compared to listeneing to 18 years of my dad yell.

wacocelt
12-28-2009, 12:21
I have been through basic training and Airborne School. I have not completed a Thru hike, therefore I do have enough expereince to say that I think a Thru-Hike is harder, for me.

Congratulations on completing boot, a Thru-Hike and still remaining as obtuse as the rest of the arm chair hikers which fill this board.

Mags
12-28-2009, 15:17
Drill Instructors were funny compared to listeneing to 18 years of my dad yell.

:) My brother said the same thing.

Both my brother AND my buddy (Army medic) also said compared to some of the nuns we had in Catholic school, the DI's were easy to deal with. ;)
( I think they were kidding? Then again, we all had Sr. Jackie as our first grade teacher... :eek:)

(No dog in his thru-hike vs. boot camp fight.. Just found it amusing what Fred stated.

Dad was a hard-ass growing up. Old school, strict, anal, demanding and had that stereotypical very short, Eye-talian fuse. (He's mellowed in his older age...) As my brother said...the DIs were doing their job. Dad? He REALLY was angry if the garden hose was not rolled up a certain way! :D As for Nuns..well, any Catholic school survivor knows what I'm talking about. ;) )

SurferNerd
12-28-2009, 15:35
I think my 13 weeks of Parris Island was by far worse than my upcoming 6months of AT hiking. USMC boot camp is more mental than physical nowadays, thanks to moms complaining about the death of recruits. I can leave the trail at any time, I can't just walk away from PI. I also don't have idiots screaming in my face 24/7..lol

Wolf - 23000
12-28-2009, 21:17
I have been through basic training and Airborne School. I have not completed a Thru hike, therefore I do have enough expereince to say that I think a Thru-Hike is harder, for me.

Congratulations on completing boot, a Thru-Hike and still remaining as obtuse as the rest of the arm chair hikers which fill this board.

Wacocelt,

Congratulations to you too for completing boot camp and Airborne School and hiking the Whites Mt. I'm not putting down anything you have done. What I'm saying is, to go on the idea that what you did for about a week and compare it to what an entire thru-hike that take most hikers 4 - 6 months doesn't make sense.

I'll put in Army terms. If I asked you during your first week of Basic Training what is your option of the Army, I'm sure it would change compare to if I asked you the same question 6 months down the road whether positive or negative.

As for me being part of the arm chair hikers, well considering when I'm on the trail, I still hike faster and farther than most thru-hikers and by Army standard I'm still able to wear my PT Patch for Physical fittness I would say I'm in a little bit better shape than your average "arm chair hiker."

Peace,

Wolf

mweinstone
12-28-2009, 21:21
if i had a hiker gladiator to defend my hiker kigdom and i was a hiking cesar, i would definatly choose wolf23000 to be my champion. and for my entertainment he would hike against you first!

Jester2000
12-28-2009, 23:07
. . . I would say I'm in a little bit better shape than your average "arm chair hiker."[/FONT]

Peace,

Wolf

If I ever get to hike for any length of time with Wolf, he'll be an "arm chair hiker" in the sense that he's strong enough to carry an actual armchair, which I will sit on when we're in camp.

Nean
12-28-2009, 23:11
A thru hike is longer and harder than boot camp but much more fun.;)

wacocelt
12-29-2009, 00:19
Wacocelt,

Congratulations to you too for completing boot camp and Airborne School and hiking the Whites Mt. I'm not putting down anything you have done. What I'm saying is, to go on the idea that what you did for about a week and compare it to what an entire thru-hike that take most hikers 4 - 6 months doesn't make sense.

I'll put in Army terms. If I asked you during your first week of Basic Training what is your option of the Army, I'm sure it would change compare to if I asked you the same question 6 months down the road whether positive or negative.

As for me being part of the arm chair hikers, well considering when I'm on the trail, I still hike faster and farther than most thru-hikers and by Army standard I'm still able to wear my PT Patch for Physical fittness I would say I'm in a little bit better shape than your average "arm chair hiker."

Peace,

Wolf

You assume very much dude, very much. The year I broke my foot and hiked the Whites anyways I had already done Springer to the Shenendoah, flipped up and was going SoBo. I broke my foot and kept going, got dumped off a van during a very bad hitch and got eight staples in my head and kept going. I only quit when Hurricane Katrina hit the gulf coast and I went to volunteer. This isn't including my time on the trail in 2000 OR in 2003.

So while no, I may not have completed a Thru hike, but I do have ample time spent out there, more than enough to know that, in my opinion, a Thru hike is much harder than Basic Training.

Now, I would like to add, once again, in closing... that perception is a mother flocker, not matter how much you have in common with someone your perceptions will be different. So it only goes to show that some people will find Boot harder and some people will find the trail harder.

I never thought of leaving Basic, because it wasn't an option, period. It's very easy indeed to ignore wanting to leave someplace if you know that you aren't allowed to. Which I'm quite sure is why the drop out rate on Thru hikes is so much higher than it is in Boot/Basic.

Hell the military would be a lot more deserving of respect if they actually culled the dullards and cowards from the ranks instead of letting all the chaff down range just because they need to fill uniforms...

littlejohn1999
12-29-2009, 20:52
I've thru hiked The AT but I've never been to Boot Camp. Which is harder? I can't say. I have a friend who is retired from the Marines. He has some interesting stories, that's for sure. Could he thru hike The AT? Could I make it through Parris Island? I think it boils down to desire. In any difficult endeavor you find out quickly if it's something you really want or not. My friend had wanted to be a Marine since childhood. I'd wanted to thru hike The AT for almost 10 years before I finally did it. So what's the biggest difference between the two? At the end of my AT thru hike I received a certificate of completion. At the end of USMC boot camp my friend had a new career. I spend money to hike The AT. He made money as a Marine. He had great stories and great memories. I have great stories and great memories. He's never hiked in minus 5 below 0 weather atop Mt Washington, 115 heat index in Virginia, or done back to back 30 milers in Vermont. And I've never stood guard outside embassies in Egypt or Maylasia. Thru-hiking The AT was the best experience of my life. I admire and envy my friend's life in the USMC. I am in awe of those who have done both.

Wolf - 23000
12-31-2009, 02:01
wacocelt (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=33),

You do have a point so I will rephrase my position, I don't think anyone is qualified to answer that question unless they either attempt/completed both Boot Camp. You have complete Boot Camp and yea you did attempt to thru-hike. Knowing someone and doing Basic Training is total different. The soldiers tail of how bad it was get taller and taller every time he/she tells it.

Leaving Basic Training is always an option. When I worked as a DS, we had chapter out several "soldiers"
after A LOT of paperwork that though Basic Training was "too hard". Yea, please don't laugh because it is true. We spent more time chaptering them out then if they simple would have completed Basic Training.

Getting off the trail to help volunteer when Hurricane Katrina hit I definitely respect as being a very valid cause.:banana

Finally getting off the trail in the Whites is not something most thru-hikers would do if they are set on completing the trail. As you said perception is a mother flocker. I should know, I've walked with several very bad injuries. I don't think I could have called it a quit but as Jester2000 will tell you, I'm crazy like that.
Peace,

Wolf

Nasty Dog Virus
12-31-2009, 10:00
I'll take a thru-hike over boot camp any day. Life is much easier when you control your destiny rather than Uncle Sam controlling it for you...

US Navy 1994-2001

ridgerunninrat81
02-19-2010, 21:41
First of all thank you all for your service. I think its rather funny that the Marines all state that boot camp was harder. But not surprised. I went through basic Dec 75 through Feb 76 at Ft Dix in N.J. We had a Christmas break in the middle of our cycle. lol My through hike was tougher but only a little.

leaftye
02-19-2010, 22:53
Boot camp is structured to so that the dumbest most out of shape people can still get thru it without preparation of any kind. The same kind of people can do some of the thru-hikes too, although preparation helps on all trails, and the lack of preparation may kill you on one or two of them.

JustaTouron
02-19-2010, 23:05
Lets take this from an objective stand point....

I have heard that 4 out of 5 people who leave Springer with the intent of reaching Katadian don't. Even if that number is inflated and the actual success rate is 50%, with the exception of some hard core units like the seals none have a washout rate even coming close to 50%.

Your chances of graduating boot camp is much greater than completing a thru hike. The physical demands of boot camp may be harder the necessary determination, not to quit when the going get tough is greater for the hike.

superman
02-20-2010, 05:50
Lets take this from an objective stand point....

I have heard that 4 out of 5 people who leave Springer with the intent of reaching Katadian don't. Even if that number is inflated and the actual success rate is 50%, with the exception of some hard core units like the seals none have a washout rate even coming close to 50%.

Your chances of graduating boot camp is much greater than completing a thru hike. The physical demands of boot camp may be harder the necessary determination, not to quit when the going get tough is greater for the hike.

It's still comparing apples and oranges. There is a filtering process that gets rid of a lot of folks who wouldn't be able to adjust to military service mentally or physically. The training cadre is there to make something out of civilian crap. They can't train you hard enough for what will come later. Any dumb ass with hiking boots who shows up to hike can give a thru hike a try.:)

fiddlehead
02-20-2010, 07:00
Ah, an old thread came back to life.
I must have missed this one 14 months ago but reading through it, and thinking about it, I really don't see how I could compare.
I agree with the above person who says it's Apples and Oranges,
Not comparable.
Different problems, different goals, one takes a mind that makes it's own decisions, the other learns to obey someone elses.

But, i'd much rather do another thru-hike again than boot camp. any day!
Thst's about the only comparison i can make

JAK
02-20-2010, 11:54
I think that boot camp is tougher, even though more people complete boot camp.
You get such wonderful support staff in boot camp. lol

JAK
02-20-2010, 12:00
I would totally do boot camp again if they would allow old farts. lol
It was perhaps the best experience of my life. Beautiful scenery too.
Chilliwack British Columbia from October 20, 1983 to February ??, 1984.

I feel guilty as hell because we didn't have any wars back then, thank God.

Oh we were a lean mean bunch of engineers, air navigators, and a couple of padres.
Cry Havock and Let Slip The Dogs of War 13 Platoon!

Blue Sky II
02-21-2010, 09:29
Marine Corps boot camp was tougher. The only torture on the AT was self-inflicted!

Roche
02-22-2010, 20:54
Interesting question, but hard to compare. A thru average is 6 months, boot was far less. In boot I knew when I would eat and where I would sleep (aka 3 hots and a cot). Couldn't take any zeros or slam a beer. But the bunk was dry and the food hot. My other experience is section hiking. You set the pace, enjoy the sights and think about your next time on the trail. Yet I have to eat what I cooked (well, boil and mix), sleep on the ground, and battle the elements.

Pros and cons with both. Who would want to do a 6 month boot on the trail?

DAJA
02-22-2010, 21:20
I never found boot camp to be tough really.. In many ways it was a lot of fun.. Especially enjoyed watching my Master Bombardier going off on me and others, laughing on the inside thinking, this guy has nothing on my father..

I can't compare it to a thru, since i've never done one, however, I have done several extended (3-6 month) solo trips and overall they where much harder.... Physical is physical, when you hurt you hurt, and having others sharing in that pain along side you, experiencing what you are experiencing, gives you strength... You feed off one another, but more importantly you have people to talk to for support... Good for the mental state. Going solo, well you are your support team... Spending several months with less than 4hrs of human contact tends to cause slack in the old cranium... You have no others to gauge your state, both physically and mentally... You could be completely gone in the head and not be aware, after all it was you who talked yourself into it in the first place...

The AT, however, is rarely a solo experience, so since you can go about it at your own pace, being your own boss, and shareing the experience with others would likely be slightly easier than boot camp... But in the end, its all just liven, gotta do something to fill the days..

gunner76
02-22-2010, 22:13
Not just anyone can get into military boot camp, although it seems that way. There is pre screening for basic health and mental issues ect.

While anyone can start hiking the AT (as long as they are at least smart enought to find the trail).

Brian (aka Skippy)
02-23-2010, 07:19
*insert grunts and chest thumping here*

msfirehiker
02-24-2010, 20:04
The island i always hot even in December. lol PISC class of 2000

Lone Wolf
02-24-2010, 21:02
it was freakin hot hot in aug of 77

Hooch
02-24-2010, 21:10
Amen. Platoon 2071, graduated 17 Spetember 87. Summer of '87 was the hottest I've ever spent.