PDA

View Full Version : Bodybuilding Supps as Trail Food?



Powell19
11-23-2009, 22:29
In addition to hiking a lot, I'm a gym rat. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with protein supplements and weight gainers on the trail. Aside from being hard to resupply, bodybuilder's weight gainer seems like it would be a great source of nutrition on the trail and it's really easy to prepare and get into your body on the go. But, I've only found one article dealing with this on the internet.

I'm thinking about stocking up on a cheap gainer, and putting it in my mail drops for my 2011 thru hike, or maybe just making my own shake with egg white and milk powders.

Opinions?

Compass
11-24-2009, 00:24
I thought about using these also but I try to eat whole foods and the ingredient lists do not meet the standards of what I call food. Since most hiker food is boiled gruel of some sort most tend to crave texture and varying flavor over a sludgy shake. After a month you will probably choose other options.

On a thru bulky muscles are the enemy of efficiency(extra weight). Look at thruhikers towards the end of their hikes they are lean efficient walking machines. Unused muscle mass just gets used up elswhere. At 26 the bulk will come back after the hike.

drastic_quench
11-24-2009, 00:41
You don't need near that much protein. You need lots of carbs and some good fats (olive oil, nuts, etc.).

Compass
11-24-2009, 01:12
You don't need near that much protein. You need lots of carbs and some good fats (olive oil, nuts, etc.).

That was what I was trying to say.

take-a-knee
11-24-2009, 01:16
You don't need near that much protein. You need lots of carbs and some good fats (olive oil, nuts, etc.).

Well, how much is "that much", and, more importantly, just how much protein does a thru-hiker need, per-pound/day?

Okie Dokie
11-24-2009, 01:59
From my experience with long-distance hiking your body will use protein to make whatever routine (general body maintenance) or special-circumstance (injuries) repairs it needs to then use the rest to build muscle where it's needed - in the legs...once your body has built the legs up to accomodate whatever load the're being asked to transport on a daily basis it pretty much goes back to normal every-day mode/requirements, in terms of protein...you'll be hungy for whatever your body needs at the moment, be that vegetables, carbs, etc, and there are tons of places on the trail now to get whatever you crave...behind almost every supplement on the market is an ardent capitalist marketing his products to his target market - hoping they'll think what he/she's selling will give them some sort of advantage...just my opinion, but I've seen/read many other thoughtful people who agree...hike long enough and your legs will thicken, while your upper body shrinks...and that's really as it should be - bodies are pretty smart...the advice above regarding carbs and fats are solid in regards to long-distance hiking...calorie-per-weight calculations are pretty much the only math you'll need unless you're in that small group of humans that suffer from chronic vitamin deficiencies due to genetics...

Powell19
11-24-2009, 03:27
As for the whole foods thing, I have a pretty deeply considered diet plan right now that is based on lots of whole grains, veggies and LOTS of protein. I've found that the best way to get the extra protein I need to hit the gym hard 6 days a week is to use whey, egg and casein supplements in addition to healthy foods. They're not the foundation of a healthy diet, but they come in handy.

The way I see it, bodybuilders who are trying to bulk and thru hikers have basically the same problem when it comes to nutrition. That being the problem of getting enough calories to feed your muscles when your day-to-day activity burns so many calories. These supplements are designed to help you get extra calories and protein easily.

Cytosport's Muscle Milk, for instance has 125 cal/oz. That's a pretty good number for the purposes of hiking light, right?

garlic08
11-24-2009, 11:20
As posted above, forget about bulk if you're serious about the long hike. Efficient hiking and body building are pretty much mutually exclusive. I know it's not quite the same, but how many professional cyclists do you see with massive upper body muscles? If there were a TV sport that showed all the professional hikers :rolleyes:, you'd see the same body type.

I've met a few ex-body builders on the trail. One, near the end of the AT in ME, looked like everyone else--skinny and fast, and he joked about how slow he was when he started (couldn't come close to keeping up with all the skinny hikers) and could hardly breathe. Another gave me a "Met RX 100" "protein bar" (main ingredient: high fructose corn syrup) that tasted awful and gave me heartburn and a sugar buzz. He was trying to give away as many as he could. That stuff's pretty expensive, too, isn't it?

The diet of real food you have planned sounds good, and should provide what you need for the hike. Best of luck.

sarbar
11-24-2009, 16:06
As for the whole foods thing, I have a pretty deeply considered diet plan right now that is based on lots of whole grains, veggies and LOTS of protein. I've found that the best way to get the extra protein I need to hit the gym hard 6 days a week is to use whey, egg and casein supplements in addition to healthy foods. They're not the foundation of a healthy diet, but they come in handy.

The way I see it, bodybuilders who are trying to bulk and thru hikers have basically the same problem when it comes to nutrition. That being the problem of getting enough calories to feed your muscles when your day-to-day activity burns so many calories. These supplements are designed to help you get extra calories and protein easily.

Cytosport's Muscle Milk, for instance has 125 cal/oz. That's a pretty good number for the purposes of hiking light, right?

Thru hiking doesn't build big muscle, it builds lean muscle. Bodybuilding is working muscles much differently. Look at thrus or long distance hikers and you see something: everyone is lean for the most part after a couple months. Different kind of exercising.

You WILL need carbs and plenty of them for hard hiking. The problem with consuming vast amounts of protein isn't that you don't need it, but that it is harder for a working body to digest. In camp at night this is OK, but when hiking during the day you want easy to digest.

It can be very hard on the body though in hot weather to digest a block of protein. Like not feeling good and feeling run down.

There is a reason thru's often end up eating crap food diets of pop tarts, snickers and cheap noodles. It is easy to digest and powers you.

Lostone
11-24-2009, 16:45
I am guessing here. even if you replace one meal a day and they have three flavors. Your gonna get real bored with the taste.

Just think about it a warm slimy protein shake at the end of a hard day. Imagine burping that all night.

deadhorsejoe
11-24-2009, 16:47
Charles Daniels, a 70-year-old man, recently finished the CDT to complete his triple crown. He wrote the following (under prep 3 entry) in his CDT journal on trailjournals:

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=263956

Pedaling Fool
11-24-2009, 17:08
Charles Daniels, a 70-year-old man, recently finished the CDT to complete his triple crown. He wrote the following (under prep 3 entry) in his CDT journal on trailjournals:

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=263956
That's a Great link!

Deadeye
11-24-2009, 17:17
I take along protein shakes when hiking. Chocolate, strawberry, or vanilla mixed with cold water, and sometimes with extra powdered milk, sometimes combined with instant pudding mix.

There are plenty of inexpensive carb sources with low weight and long shelf life. The same can't be said for protein sources.

sarbar
11-24-2009, 21:47
There are plenty of inexpensive carb sources with low weight and long shelf life. The same can't be said for protein sources.

Beans, wheat products, dried meats and fish........flavored TVP.....there are MANY options out there.

Egads
11-24-2009, 21:54
Charles Daniels, a 70-year-old man, recently finished the CDT to complete his triple crown. He wrote the following (under prep 3 entry) in his CDT journal on trailjournals:

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=263956

thanks for the tip

take-a-knee
11-25-2009, 00:11
Charles Daniels, a 70-year-old man, recently finished the CDT to complete his triple crown. He wrote the following (under prep 3 entry) in his CDT journal on trailjournals:

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=263956

That Cytogainer is within a few percent of meeting perfect Zone Diet parameters, IE a 4/3 ration of carbs to protein at each meal. This will stabilize blood sugar (and therefore insulin) and provide optimal amounts of amino acids for tissue repair. Short of a "freeze-dried" salad and beef tips, which of course isn't within the realm of available technology, this looks like an excellent food for a hiker. All it needs is an amount of fat equivelent to the protein to be near perfect.

Of course, some jackass will post about how they've hiked 92,000 miles on nothing but ramen and pretzels and they have rosy cheeks to show for it. It is a fact that living off of predominantly carbohydrate, especially the refined variety, will kill your a$$ off a lot sooner than your genes predicted. When you are climbing mountains with a pack, you are depleting muscle and liver glycogen (carbs), so the net effect is you CAN eat more carbs without deleterious effect (probably) but who the hell knows how much? Better to ere on the side of not enough and maintain healthy hormone levels than to try to be all "sugared-up" so you can make the next climb. You have a 30-60minute window, post exercise, to replace muscle glycogen that has just been burned, IE, you just got to the top of the mountain and took a break. People who, at such a time, have a hard time digesting protein and fat, are the same people who don't bother exercising before they hike, so the circulation to their digestive tract is diverted to their puny musculature and their lungs. Something like a protein/carb bar or trail mix and jerky is about ideal for replentishment at that point, for the fit anyway.

Nursing homes are full of people who are fat as hell (to many carbs/insulin) or scrawny as hell ( not enough protein). You won't see any Jack Lallane types there(he's 95)...they are at the gym. In addition to the scrawny/lardasses, you'll find the demented. Alzheimers is being refered to ass Type III diabetes in many medical circles today, so if you think people like Dr Barry Sears, Micheal Edees etc, are FOS, I wish you well in your retirement, enjoy your ramen.

Powell19
11-25-2009, 01:46
Thanks to everyone for their input.

So, I was all ready to defend my idea, but it seems as though some others have already stepped in to do so.

@ Deadeye- What brand to you carry?

@ deadhorsejoe- That was a great link. While I'm not 70 and not on beta blockers, that's basically the info I was looking for.

To clarify, I never harbored any illusions of looking like Arnold during his Mr. Olympia days when I reach Maine, nor do I currently look like Arnold at any stage of his career. I was simply presenting bodybuilding supplements as a solution to the problem of how one carries so many calories on one's back for 2000 miles and, how one maintains a protein rich diet on the trail.

Endurance athletes don't tend to have bulging bis and boulder sized delts, but there is definitely a trend toward adopting more protein rich diets among all athletes, including formerly carb crazy ones like running and cycling. That's because the endurance athletes are learning what power athletes and lifters have always known. Protein (lots of protein) means quick recovery and faster gains in strength, power and muscle endurance, all of which contribute to happier, healthier hiking.

The idea of the "muscle bound" bodybuilder is a myth, by the way. Lots of bodybuilders are very athletic guys during their bulking season. It's when they dehydrate themselves and try to burn off every ounce of body fat they have for competition that they lose all their muscle endurance.

Powell19
11-25-2009, 01:51
P.S. @ take-a-knee - I totally summited Everest with nothing but a 2.5 gallon bag-in-box of Mountain Dew syrup to sip out of. So, there...

Powell19
11-25-2009, 02:02
@ sarbar - the ease of digestion is precisely why one might choose whey or egg protein supplements over meat, grain or vegetable sources. Egg white and whey are both quick digesting proteins with a full spectrum of amino acids. Egg white is actually the standard by which all other proteins are measured when it comes to how easily your body can break down and ues the aminos to build it's own tissue. And, in the case of whey proteins, your body has much easier time using the protein when it it isolated from the other proteins, fats and sugars in milk (i.e. it's beter for you when it is "processed.") Plus, if you drink your protein, you are pretty much guaranteed to have enough water in your gut to digest it.

Sorry, I'm a total knowitall geek.

Tent-N-Kent
11-25-2009, 02:57
Your Body will crave indeed , mostly carbs and fats , fat's being the most efficient fuel per weight in ounces that you can pack on your aching back. But having said that , a little chaw of Jerky while the Ramen is soaking and some crumbles of Bacon in your morning Oatmeal with a Jelly Packet lifted from that Hardees back in Waynesboro will really make your days on the trail more varied and delicious. I wish I had Invested in more powdered Electrolyte drink mixes that taste good for my longdistance hike in 2001...When my wife and I were hiking in moderate to hot weather , the Twinlabs stuff and the Cytomax powdered mixes made us feel so much better. And I would gladly drink it warmed up in cold weather rather than Hot Cocoa.

Tent-N-Kent
11-25-2009, 03:10
For more on the Cytomax and it's beneficial mix of all 3 food building blocks do a little research on The North Face's sponsored Uber runner Dean Karnazes. 50 Marathons in 50 states in 50 days wasn't enough punishment he then ran back home to St. Louis from NYC. That man understands his body , the fuel it needs to recover , he would be drinking some protein on the AT, you betcha.

Dogwood
11-25-2009, 03:53
Powell19, putting in my 2 cents, I think wt gainer type products/body bulding supplements/muscle bulding supplements like what you referred to are probably best thought of during a long distance hike, like a thru-hike, as just that, supplements. They are added to a healthy diet or considered as part of a healthy diet - not as a replacement for a healthy diet. I don't think you are doing your body or tastebuds justice if you think you will just consume these types of supplements as your primary or only source of nourishment on a thru-hike. Now, folks, including hikers, have all sorts of opinions about what a healthy diet is.

I will have to agree with much of what Sarbar stated here:

*Thru hiking doesn't build big muscle, it builds lean muscle. Bodybuilding is working muscles much differently...... Different kind of exercising.*

And here:

*You WILL need carbs and plenty of them for hard hiking.....*

Her statements correlate exactly with what I've read from those who have the most experience with long distance trail diets, the type of cals and caloric breakdown that best fuels backpacking exercise over long distances, and with my personal accounts.

And, Powell19 I understand that from where you are coming from Sarbar's last comment flies in your face. You have a strong focus on protein calories.

But you also need long lasting stamina for long distance hiking and that type of energy can partly be furnished by adding complex carbs calories to an all ready healthy diet that includes ample amounts of protein and even good fats. Now what ratios or percentages of your total daily caloric intake you want to come from complex carbs, protein(from what ever source, you mention some great sources providing a wide range of amino acids) and good fats is up to you to tweak for your body.

Powell19, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the range and ratios of amino acids also played a huge role in why eggs and specifically egg whites were the standard by which other proteins are measured?

I was simply presenting bodybuilding supplements as a solution to the problem of how one carries so many calories on one's back for 2000 miles and, how one maintains a protein rich diet on the trail.

That's a question I can answer. Realize my dieting beliefs may be different than yours though. Doesn't make either one of us wrong or right though, just what I feel is currently right for me.

I carry my trail calories, about 2800 - 3600 cals per day by upping the percentage of cals I get from good fats. I'll have a trail diet where up to about 35 % of my total daily caloric intake cames from good fats likes salmon, sardines, olive oil, nuts, and seedsl When I'm not hiking maybe 15 % of my total caloric intake comes from fat cals. I might not consume as many total cals as some long distance hikers but I hike bigger mileage days and resupply in town often, like every 5 days. This affords me with many opportunities for additional in town calories. As far as a diet rich in protein I don't think massive amounts of protein are necessary when hiking or at many other times FOR ME. I certainly can see the need if you are building muscle mass like you currently are though. I'm more focused on creating a lean well muscled body, but that doesn't necessarily mean bigger muscles. I think many Americans eat too much protein(not exactly what you wanted to hear). But more to the pt. We all do need protein and, as you are aware of, that means getting all the essential amino acids and more) in the right ratios and that means having to get aminos from sources that our body doesn't create. I try to cumulatively get all my aminos(protein) from a wide range of sources that don't always include all animal products. This can take some work. It's more convenient to get the aminos from one complete source like you do.

Powell19
11-25-2009, 04:31
@ Tent-N-Kent - Cytomax is good stuff. I think Cytosport has an all around great product line. Also, if you haven't tried Ajinomoto's Amino Vital, you should. Their endurance formula is basically a sports drink with Waximaize and aminos added. I take it whenever I go out for a long hike and I sometimes drink it while I'm at the gym.

@ Dogwood - My AT meal plan, in it's current formulation (I've got over a year to tweak it) includes a protein shake in the AM, and one in the PM. I wasn't planning on using them as my primary meals, just as bookends to my day. That's basically how I currently supplement, except I add one more shake immediately post workout in my everyday life.

I hope I don't give the wrong impression here. Nobody's comments "fly in my face." I'm mostly just obsessed with the minutiae of planning my hike because I can't just go out and jump on the trail right now like I want to. And, I argue points for the sake of argumentation (I studied philosophy in college and I think it ruined me.)

And, as for the amino acid ratios of various proteins. Yeah, that's a big part of it, but I have trouble enough counting calories so I haven't really done all of my research on that stuff. I know a good protein source has to have high levels of leucine, valine and isoleucine because they're the ones your body can't make. Arginine and glutamine are all the rage in supplementation because they do other things besides act as building blocks for proteins. Arginine for instance is used a lot on its own as a supplement to aid blood flow in the muscles and improve blood vessel tone. So there are certain amino acid profiles that are better for sports nutrition than others. I actually think whey has a "better" amino profile than egg for this because it has lots more of the three essential aminos.

Powell19
11-25-2009, 05:53
So, here's some protein math for anyone who's interested.
(according to this site http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Protein.html)
An 80 kg (176lb) endurance athlete (not bodybuilder or powerlifter) needs about 1.37 grams of protein per kg of body weight to maintain nitrogen balance (nitrogen in > nitrogen out, body can rebuild damaged tissue) 80kg*1.37g/kg= 109.6 grams of protein. That's a little over 12 oz (sorry switching to english weights) of chicken breast, about a pound of canned tuna, 18 large eggs and about 6 oz (by weight) of my favorite protein suplement.

If we take the most conservative estimate this site offers, 12% of calories from protein to maintain nitrogen balance in an athletically active person, and say I plan on eating 3500 cal/day on trail (very low guesstimate, right?), that's 420 cal from protein and that's still 105 grams of protein per day.

Powell19
11-25-2009, 06:03
At my current body weight I'd be needing around 140g protein, BTW. I'm not a scrappy middleweight like my hypothetical man in the math problem.

Manwich
11-25-2009, 08:46
I just put some Jay Robb protein powder in my morning Oatmeal instead of powdered milk.

Tagless
11-25-2009, 08:54
My wife Tag-along and I each drank a 1 liter protein enriched shake for breakfast throughout our 09 thru hike - mixed the night before in Gatorade bottles. Ingredients included water 2-3 Instant Breakfasts, NEDO powdered whole milk, and Muscle Milk Protein Powder. For us, this was a great way to take in a generous amount of a.m. calories and start the day hydrated. It got us out of camp very quickly as well.

We mail dropped or bounced Muscle Milk and NEDO up the trail as they weren't readily available in most trail towns.

This approach worked very well for us and is something we will continue on future hikes.

take-a-knee
11-25-2009, 11:21
P.S. @ take-a-knee - I totally summited Everest with nothing but a 2.5 gallon bag-in-box of Mountain Dew syrup to sip out of. So, there...

And your point is....?

garlic08
11-25-2009, 12:54
...I hope I don't give the wrong impression here. Nobody's comments "fly in my face." I'm mostly just obsessed with the minutiae of planning my hike because I can't just go out and jump on the trail right now like I want to. And, I argue points for the sake of argumentation (I studied philosophy in college and I think it ruined me.)

None of us would be here if we didn't enjoy a good argument and most of us enjoy learning from others' points of view, yours included. It sounds like you have a good plan thought out and it's good to hear of your experiences.

One more thought on supplements. I enjoyed Michael Pollan's book, "In Defense of Food". His research on supplements indicates that it's probably best to "be the kind of person who takes supplements" but don't actually take the supplements. The point is that people who take supplements generally eat well and take care of themselves to begin with, and that's 99.99% of the battle right there. The supplements do very few people any measurable good, and most (not all!) are a waste of money. (And the amount of money spent on supplements is staggering, to me.)

PS: I looked at the Cytomax website, curious about the hype. I could not find a list of ingredients. The nutrition label says a 25g serving has 22g of carbs (12g simple sugar) and 0% RDA of protein (that was a surprise). I suspect the main ingredient is high fructose corn syrup or a similar sugar, with a helping of whey powder, and trace amounts of manufactured vitamins, if it's like other similar products I've seen.

Powell19
11-25-2009, 21:33
@Tagless - Thanks. That sounds like a good morning starter. Throw a couple teaspoons of instant coffee in that and you might turn into the incredible hulk :) Where did you get the whole milk powder. I can only find the 2% milkfat stuff in the grocery stores around here.

@take-a-knee - Just that sugar and caffeine are all one ever needs. Well, some yellow #5 too....

@garlic08 - Cytomax is basically lots of starches and some whey protein. It has lots of stuff that probably fall into that category of designer supps that cost a lot and don't do much. Here's a PDF of the label if you want to check it out. http://gnc.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pGNC1-5419423_gnclabel_pdf.pdf

Tagless
11-25-2009, 22:11
Nido (I misspelled the name in my original post) can often be found in the hispanic food section of your local grocery chain or on-line. Here is one (http://www.amazon.com/Nestle-Nido-Instant-Whole-12-6oz/dp/B00032B982) on-line source.

Powell19
11-25-2009, 23:49
@Tagless - Thanks.

The Phoenix
11-26-2009, 04:02
I cooked cold and needed a way to spice up my breakfast... I would often do cold oatmeal along with several other calorie packed things shootin for around 1500 calories before i started to move (not always successful) adding protein to cold oatmeal makes it taste pretty dang good... throw some hot cocoa mix in and maybe a little peanut butter action... hell you aint even eating cold oats anymore you got brownie mix infused with 15-40 grams of protein and 450 cals!!

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2983654

light to carry... use 1/3 of a packet daily... a box of those babies will last you 2 months... great taste... great results...

it worked for me... everybody seems to have their own system.

Dogwood
11-27-2009, 01:21
Powell, I know this will not exactly be the same but why don't you try your intended trail diet out on a shorter trip before the start of your thru-hike. Try it out for say 1 wk. and see what your body tells you. At the end of 1 wk re-evaluate by thinking how a trail diet like that will affect you over the course of several months.

Powell19
11-27-2009, 01:31
@Dogwood - That would be excellent. Probably won't be getting off work for a week any time soon, but it would be the best way to try it out.

Snowleopard
11-28-2009, 23:09
I use Trader Joe's Vanilla Soy protein powder, mixed up with powdered milk and water. This mixes well shaken in a jar. At home I'll use it with a banana thrown in the blender.
Compared to other protein mixes, it's cheap, I think about $10-$12 for 32 oz. Many of these protein mixes are just charging you lots of money for what's basically powdered milk.

Farr Away
12-02-2009, 13:09
@Dogwood - That would be excellent. Probably won't be getting off work for a week any time soon, but it would be the best way to try it out.

Try it at home then. Nothing says you have to be on a trail to eat trail food. And that way, if things really don't work, you have options.

-FA

DapperD
12-02-2009, 20:46
In addition to hiking a lot, I'm a gym rat. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with protein supplements and weight gainers on the trail. Aside from being hard to resupply, bodybuilder's weight gainer seems like it would be a great source of nutrition on the trail and it's really easy to prepare and get into your body on the go. But, I've only found one article dealing with this on the internet.

I'm thinking about stocking up on a cheap gainer, and putting it in my mail drops for my 2011 thru hike, or maybe just making my own shake with egg white and milk powders.

Opinions?Go with the powdered milk. If they have the regular as opposed to the non-fat powdered, get that. Most supermarkets have at least the non-fat type. In addition to this being a source of high quality protein, it will also help rehydrate and will also, I believe, supply carbohydrates. This is basically an affordable "protein powder". Simply mix with filtered or treated water and consume up to multiple times daily. You can also pour directly into hot beverages like coffee or hot-chocolate. If you don't mind the weight, and you like them, purchase a few cans of sardines in town every time to take back to the trail. Fish is also a very good source. Get them in oil for additional fat and calories. When you hit the town diner, order up the eggs for breakfast, etc. If supper, thick juicy burgers or steaks. Your in-town meals is where you can really make sure your intake of protein is adequate.

Captn
12-02-2009, 21:06
Check out Andrew Skurka's website ... he has some info on his diet for his 7600 mile thru as well as other hikes.

Basically balance bars all day and a hot meal at night, but the concept is very interesting ... he calls it the caloric drip method.

I've used it on my Section hikes with pretty good results.

Powell19
12-03-2009, 02:13
@ Captn - I googled Andrew Skurka and looked at his site. Thanks for the suggestion. Great site! The "caloric drip" method sounds pretty reasonable.

For those of you who have been following this thread, here's the "meal plan" I've been speaking of. It needs trail testing and will probably change between now and spring 2011. Also, it's only a rough guideline and I intend to put some freeze dried meals and other stuff in mail drops, just for variety here and there. The shakes in the AM and PM slots are 1 part egg protein (probably just egg white powder,) 1 part milk protein (probably just whole milk powder,) and something to make it palatable (e.g. Nestle Quick.)


D1 D2 D3 D4 SNACK 1 AM Shake AM Shake AM Shake AM Shake Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Multivitamin Multivitamin Multivitamin Multivitamin Omegas Omegas Omegas Omegas
D1 D2 D3 D4 BREAKFAST Oatmeal Grits Oatmeal Grits Peanut Butter Bacon Bits Peanut Butter Bacon Bits Nuts Egg Powder Nuts Egg Powder Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Dried Fruit
D1 D2 D3 D4 SNACK 2 Energy Bar Energy Bar Energy Bar Energy Bar Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Gorp Gorp Gorp Gorp
D1 D2 D3 D4 LUNCH Crackers Crackers Crackers Crackers Tuna Salmon Sausage Tuna Cheese Cheese Cheese Cheese
D1 D2 D3 D4 SNACK 3 Energy Bar Energy Bar Energy Bar Energy Bar Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Dried Fruit Gorp Gorp Gorp Gorp
D1 D2 D3 D4 SUPPER Potato Flakes Couscous Ramen Noodles Stuffing Jerky Jerky Jerky Jerky Dried Veg Dried Fruit Nori Dried Veg
D1 D2 D3 D4 SNACK 4 PM Shake PM Shake PM Shake PM Shake

Powell19
12-03-2009, 02:16
Sorry about the bad formatting on the meal plan. It copied and pasted into the input box just fine from open office. Hope you get the gist.

DylonHike
12-04-2009, 22:50
instead of shakes think about taking protein/meal replacement bars. different then cliff bars im currently eating MET-RX colossal cookie crunch bars as a snack. (im also a gym rat) taste kinda like a brownie

about 32 g protein

cant remember carbs

DapperD
12-05-2009, 01:11
In addition to hiking a lot, I'm a gym rat. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with protein supplements and weight gainers on the trail. Aside from being hard to resupply, bodybuilder's weight gainer seems like it would be a great source of nutrition on the trail and it's really easy to prepare and get into your body on the go. But, I've only found one article dealing with this on the internet.

I'm thinking about stocking up on a cheap gainer, and putting it in my mail drops for my 2011 thru hike, or maybe just making my own shake with egg white and milk powders.

Opinions?There is an article on this site entitled "Datto's AT Thru-Hiking Tips" in which one of the things he states is that if he could have done one thing differently during his Thru-Hike, he would have included some type of protein powder/supplement, due to the amount of weight/muscle that he lost during the hike. I think the bottom line is that no matter what, an extended hike such as an AT Thru-Hike is going to cause a certain amount of lost muscle, regardless. The best thing to do I feel is to attempt to increase your intake of all foods, including protein, and not allow yourself to go hungry. Use protein powders, protein bars, whole foods high in protein, and anything and everything to take in an adequate amount of overall calories. Also important is to not underestimate the need for rest when very fatigued and run down. This is where muscle loss will become exacerbated if you never take zero days in town resting and eating well, etc..to allow the muscle enough time for a recuperative effect to take place.

Powell19
12-05-2009, 03:22
@DylonHike - MetRx bars are tasty. Have you tried the Big 100 Brownies that you can microwave? They're really good. I like the PB Pretzel ones too. I'm trying to stay away from lots of sugar though, so I don't eat them often. I mostly use GNC Pro Performance oatmeal protein bars for my meal replacement at work. I dig Titan bars and Pure Protein bars too.

mudhead
12-05-2009, 08:26
Isolated soy protein is @ $5/lb at the health food store. Some of those powders get a big shot of protein when you mix them with milk. Could you not just drink the milk?

Peanuts rule.

Compass
12-05-2009, 10:50
Unless you take zeros often your body will not have time to recover and build back the muscles you tore down while hiking bigger miles. If you are burning in excess of 6000 calories a day and eating for arguments sake 5000 calories you are loosing something. For the first couple hundred miles excess fat but then the unused muscle just starts to melt away.

When I first started hiking I had a diet high in protein. I found my body just had to convert it to energy to burn right away. Now I focus on lightweight healthy high calorie foods with some protein and find the "wall" is much less intense and after more miles.

garlic08
12-05-2009, 12:12
Go with the powdered milk...This is basically an affordable "protein powder".

This is what I've always believed, with little or no factual back-up. Whenever I hear "whey protein", I think "powdered milk". It's good to see someone else thinks so.


Check out Andrew Skurka's website ... Basically balance bars all day and a hot meal at night, but the concept is very interesting ... he calls it the caloric drip method.

I truly respect and admire Andy Skurka, but I also keep in mind that he is accepting sponsorship from bar and gear companies (even more reason to admire him), so of course he's going to promote them.

Powell19
12-06-2009, 02:44
@garlic08- Whey protein is just milk powder MINUS most of what's in milk, which is lots of sugars, fats and casein protein. Whey is not really worth much, nutritionally speaking, unless you work out a lot and need a sizable dose of protein that can be broken down quickly and used switch your body from a catabolic (breaking down it's own tissue) to an anabolic state (building new tissue.) The quick digestion rate and high protein to calorie ratio are precisely why people use it as a post workout supplement.

The bulk of the protein in cow milk (around 80%) is casein, which is hard to digest because it coagulates in your stomach. This doesn't happen with whey.

Powell19
12-06-2009, 02:57
@mudhead - On the trail, probably the milk powder would be a better all around food source, because it has fats and simple carbs one's body will need.

On a regular basis, I try to stay away from lots of sugars, and try to eat healthier fats than those that are in milk. I'm trying to cut weight while still getting stronger, so I use the protein shakes (usually first thing in the AM and right after a workout) to maximize my average grams of protein per calorie.

I wouldn't really take something like whey or soy protein isolate on the trail. I would want something with more calories and some carbs and fats too (e.g. milk powder/egg powder combo or an off the shelf weight gainer.)

squeezebox
12-06-2009, 05:40
My only experience with body building supplements was a med student patient I had, a bit on the skinny side who wanted to bulk up. He put himself in the hospital with acute kidney failure from the excess nitrogen. sure he was okay in a few days, but be careful with supplements. Too much of a good thing is still too much, but no longer a good thing. As someone pointed out the key word is supplement. a good varied diet is key. You can't live off only oatmeal and ramen and expect to stay healthy, you can't live off protein powder and stay healthy. less beer in town and more real food.

Dogwood
12-07-2009, 01:22
I can understand coming from being in a gym with the goal of gaining muscle mass by lifting weights can necessarily lead to needing all this protein to rebuild the torn muscle tissue, but as as said before, long distance hiking is not about building large muscle, particularly in the upper body, so there is way too much focus, IMO, on getting trail calories from protein on this thread. Long distance hiking and body building are two different activities using somewhat different muscle groups in different ways having different aims and therefore requiring different diets for peak performance. It should also be especially noted that the wt one carries in trail food becomes a factor.

I will venture to say, that those who added protein powders to a trail diet, or only consumed protein powders, while long distance hiking in order to minimalize their body wt loss or stabilize their body wt could have also done that by consuming some of those protein calories in the form of good fat or complex carbohydrate calories.

I also would like to pt out that Mr Daniels, the recent triple crowner, stated he lost 25 lbs in body wt in 30 days! He later went on to say he thought he was eating well! UMM excuse me! If you are losing body wt that fast in that amount of time YOU ARE NOT EATING WELL, ON OR OFF THE TRAIL! I would venture to say that Mr. Daniels body wt would have stabilized if he just ate more calories! Those additional calories did not have to be consumed mainly from protein! He decided to supplement his trail diet with Cytomax. That worked for him. That's one way of going about it, but by no means should adding calories just from protein be considered a cure all for consuming adequate amonts of calories on the trail.

Powell19
12-07-2009, 02:19
I'm totally going to hike to ME with nothing but a tub of Muscle Milk and few bananas in my pack. Then I'll bench press Mt. Katahdin, just to prove all you protein powder naysayers wrong :)