MSR Miox for Thru Hike?

[jnl82381]

Has anyone used or thought of using the MSR Miox for water purification on their Thru Hike?

I'm planning a 2010 Hike and havent decided on water treatment yet. I'm thinking the Miox might be good because you can get salt in any town you stop in for resupply.

I wont have a lot of external support for my hike in the means of someone to send packages to trail towns and I don't want to deal with trying to find the right replacememnt filter for a pump. I've got polar pure, but in my experience, the bottles often leak or break.

Any thoughts or recomendations would be appreciated.

5 months and counting!

[take-a-knee]

The MSR unit produces chlorine dioxide, which, IIRC, is the same thing as Katadyn tablets. The tablets don't require batteries and weight a fraction of an ounce. I have a Miox, I keep it for BOB (bug-out-bag) use, in conjunction with an MSR filter. For hiking, I use this:

http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearGravityFilter.html

[jnl82381]

Thanks, that gravity bag looks great for when I go backpacking with family. We're planning a grand canyon trip in march before my thru hike, but might be a little excessive for just me.

The tablits would be great if I was using lots of mail drops, but given my situation of having to be self suficient on the trail and depending on what I can get in trail towns, I'm not sure they will work for 5 months. Definatelly a good idea for shorter trips thoguht.

Thanks.

[take-a-knee]

Thanks, that gravity bag looks great for when I go backpacking with family. We're planning a grand canyon trip in march before my thru hike, but might be a little excessive for just me.

The tablits would be great if I was using lots of mail drops, but given my situation of having to be self suficient on the trail and depending on what I can get in trail towns, I'm not sure they will work for 5 months. Definatelly a good idea for shorter trips thoguht.

Thanks.

The Miox and that filter weigh within an ounce of the same weight. Why on earth do you see it as a "family" camping item, when in fact, the reverse is true.

[jnl82381]

Because I don't remember the last time I needed 2 gallons of water for myself at any one time on any backpacking trip. I realize I could always put in less water and not fill the bag. I'm just leaning more toward a chemical solution for my water treatment for my thru hike.

[take-a-knee]

Because I don't remember the last time I needed 2 gallons of water for myself at any one time on any backpacking trip. I realize I could always put in less water and not fill the bag. I'm just leaning more toward a chemical solution for my water treatment for my thru hike.

I try to start each hiking day with 3-4 quarts (1 gal) plus what I drink in camp that night, use for cooking, dishes (if you freezer bag cook, this isn't much, if you don't it can be A LOT).

[HYOH]

T-A-K, I don't think the Katadyn Hiker filter offers the same level of protection as the MIOX does and the MIOX doesn't require the extra tubing since it goes directly in the container. The Katadyn is merely a filter where the MIOX solution is actually a purifier and offers a much wider spectrum of protection. Problem is that MIOX water taste like New York. Biggest problem I've had with my MIOX is keeping the batteries awake during freezing weather. Micro Pur tablets are the best solution I've found but are fairly expensive.

[take-a-knee]

HYOH, I'm a retired SF medic, I've taught folks how to purify some pretty funky water all over the western hemisphere. There is no perfect system, short of reverse osmosis, and that isn't portable. Devastating viruses, like hepatitis, are not a problem on the AT, research has shown small numbers of, IIRC, rotaviruses, that a healthy immune system deals with handily. Bacteria are always present but seldom cause a problem, many people have thru-hiked and dranked the water as they found it. Protozoans, however, can drastically alter your hike and your health, these are large and easy to filter. An effective filter requires NO WAITING. Katadyn tabs and, if you do your research, the MIOX, will require between 30 min to 4 hours to eliminate Giardia and Crytosporidium, respectively. That is why, even though I own a MIOX, I don't use it on the AT.

[HYOH]

A long paragraph to say we have 3 options. 1. No protection= blind faith 2. Partial protection and hope you're not the exception 3. camel up, fill up, wait 4 hours and drink in peace. Having already had giradia once, I'll take #3.

Have a great Thanksgiving Night.


HYOH, I'm a retired SF medic, I've taught folks how to purify some pretty funky water all over the western hemisphere. There is no perfect system, short of reverse osmosis, and that isn't portable. Devastating viruses, like hepatitis, are not a problem on the AT, research has shown small numbers of, IIRC, rotaviruses, that a healthy immune system deals with handily. Bacteria are always present but seldom cause a problem, many people have thru-hiked and dranked the water as they found it. Protozoans, however, can drastically alter your hike and your health, these are large and easy to filter. An effective filter requires NO WAITING. Katadyn tabs and, if you do your research, the MIOX, will require between 30 min to 4 hours to eliminate Giardia and Crytosporidium, respectively. That is why, even though I own a MIOX, I don't use it on the AT.

[gravy4601]

i'm useing the sweetwater filter sure it dosent purify the water put there isnt much of a chance of getting any viruses in the us anyway

[take-a-knee]

i'm useing the sweetwater filter sure it dosent purify the water put there isnt much of a chance of getting any viruses in the us anyway

No viruses in the US? Do you mean anywhere in the US? You really, really, really need to do some serious study on potable water and how to achieve it. Viruses are everywhere dude, and some of them will kill you graveyard dead, and some of those are in the water (hep A comes to mind), the dangerous ones don't show up on or too near the AT.

[flemdawg1]

Steripens kill (neutralize) everything in 90 seconds. And a set of batts in the Classic is good for 25 gals.

[jnl82381]

Thanks, I looked into the Steripen and seriously considered it until I couldn't find a good review of them anywhere. Plus they only kill what's below waterline, so anything on the threads of a waterbottle or dropplets around the top don't get hit with the UV.

I think they are an awesome idea, but still need a little work. Again, thats only from what I've read. Have you used them and had any luck?

[Manwich]

No viruses in the US? Do you mean anywhere in the US? You really, really, really need to do some serious study on potable water and how to achieve it. Viruses are everywhere dude, and some of them will kill you graveyard dead, and some of those are in the water (hep A comes to mind), the dangerous ones don't show up on or too near the AT.

IIRC, theres no danger of Viruses on the AT. Within the past decade, I only recall 1 instance of cryptosporidium contamination within even ten miles of the AT (in MA)

[Compass]

Steripen neutralizes Bacteria by messing up their DNA so they supposedly can not reproduce(manufacturers spec.). It does not kill them. Even 48 hours later 20% of the samples bacteria was still alive. I want to do another test to see if they continue to disappear over time. One city water official that was helping with my daughters science project was certain the small population that is left can still be harmfull.

[take-a-knee]

IIRC, theres no danger of Viruses on the AT. Within the past decade, I only recall 1 instance of cryptosporidium contamination within even ten miles of the AT (in MA)

It's around most everywhere back east. Cryto doesn't usually cause a problem in healthy people. When you have a cryto outbreak in a municipal system, it only affects a small percentage, but if you infect 50,000 people, that is a public health problem.

[flemdawg1]

Thanks, I looked into the Steripen and seriously considered it until I couldn't find a good review of them anywhere. Plus they only kill what's below waterline, so anything on the threads of a waterbottle or dropplets around the top don't get hit with the UV.

I think they are an awesome idea, but still need a little work. Again, thats only from what I've read. Have you used them and had any luck?

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Water%20Treatment/Ultraviolet/SteriPen/Owner%20Review%20by%20John%20Heubi/

if by "good review" you meant someone who used it w/out faults whatsoever, those are very few in the bp-ing world where gear is used and abused and all the faults are eventually found out.

I would also suggest using the "search" function above and you'll find lots of people that love their Steripens.

[gravy4601]

No viruses in the US? Do you mean anywhere in the US? You really, really, really need to do some serious study on potable water and how to achieve it. Viruses are everywhere dude, and some of them will kill you graveyard dead, and some of those are in the water (hep A comes to mind), the dangerous ones don't show up on or too near the AT.

did not no that i've always been told that they where in the tropical ares thanks for the info but you think it would still be safe to hike with a filter insted of a purifier

[Rain Man]

I would also suggest using the "search" function above and you'll find lots of people that love their Steripens.

I used my Katadyn filter since '03 with no real problems, but never ran into murky water. Then last Christmas I got a Steripen Classic. It's the only thing I've used since. Love it. No mess, no fuss, no wait. Takes AA batteries, so can find them anywhere. I use lithium ones, so they are light-weight and have yet to die on me. The Classic fits a liter Gatorade bottle perfectly.

You can fill the bottle to the tip top, and hold the Steripen up high to zap the threads too, if you like.

Rain:sunMan

.

[take-a-knee]

did not no that i've always been told that they where in the tropical ares thanks for the info but you think it would still be safe to hike with a filter insted of a purifier

The really dangerous viruses (hepatitis) typically occur around human habitation. So if you've got people upstream, you'd better have more than a filter, better yet a filter and a MIOX (that is my SHTF plan). On the AT, from a little seep in a high gap, I ain't worried about it. Hell, this board is full of several thru hikers who just drink it straight. I think that is a tad risky myself. Whatever you do, wash your hands often, especially after you crap. I carry a one-ounce bottle of dr bronners.

[jjohn06]

First of all I hold the un-unpopular belief that the issue of water treatment is essentially a non-issue on the AT. Most of the water you will drink will be spring water, and most of that will be fine to drink without any treatment. On my '09 thru-hike I estimate that I only treated 1/4 of the water I drank. The vast majority of water worth considering for drinking is safe, and besides, crypto and Guardia aren't the worst (not the greatest either).

As far as the MIOX, I have several major issues with this product that, for me, make it unsuitable for a thru-hike. First, it is much heavier than other form of chemical treatment. I think the pen itself is around 3.5 ounces. Compared to and once or so of aquimira or bleach, there is definitely a difference. It also violates the general rule of avoiding complicated (and therefore breakable) essential items (though I found mine bomb-proof). The biggest issue, however, is price. The device is over one-hundred dollars and lithium cr123 batteries aren't cheap. Compare that to at most $15 for aquamira (maybe a total of 4 for a thru-hike) or bleach, which is essentially free (thanks nice waitresses!).

As far as filters go, a hand pump is simply too heavy for me, ruling it out all together. Plus you'd have to deal with hoses and filters, etc. I know several people that started with gravity filters, though they switched them out. While they are much lighter, they they still have some weight (maybe 5-8 ounces) and still cost more than chemicals (unless you make one). They also involve a bit of down time waiting to filter and potentially a balancing act trying to get/keep the hoses in bottles.

I, unfortunately, don't know enough about, or ever used, a steripen. I do know that everyone I know how started with one got rid of them, as either they broke, were accused of being to fragile, or had issues with them not working. As far as they latter, from what other people told me, the steripen has issues working properly in cold water, which is major concern considering much of the water is from springs. Also, the steripen has issues in cloudy water, but this shouldn't be a concern on the AT. They lighter ones weight about as much as the MIOX.

Ultimately I would go with a some form of cheap, easy to use, chemicals, either aquamira, polarpure, or bleach and/or maybe a gravity filter. I would also use your best judgment on clean spring water. The taste and experience of dipping you hands into and drinking untreated water is hard to beat.

In the end, the choice is up to you, it all depends on your experience, how you hike, your limits, and what your are comfortable with.


SmileTrain

[gravityman]

Used the MIOX for our thru in 2005. Worked great, but around NY we got sick of the taste. Kept using it, but we really were tired of the chemical taste. At first it didn't seem bad at all, but after 4 months we didn't want to drink our water anymore...

Watch out for some of this advise. Bleach is NOT effective and is considered for emergency use only...

Gravity

[whitelightning]

I also think the Miox is impractical for a thruhike compared to other options. Most of the hikers I met in 2008 used either Aquamira, a Steripen, or a filter. Many people who started with a filter switched to Aquamira to save weight. I met many Steripen users that had problems with it breaking.

If I'm not mistaken, the Miox uses a specific battery type that you may or may not be able to find easily near the AT. Personally, I don't like to rely on any essential gear that requires batteries. I also can't stand the taste of the treated water.

I ended up carrying a Katadyn Hiker filter the entire trip. As far as getting replacement cartridges, it was easy enough to order them from REI and have them shipped to the next place I planned to stop. It seemed like the outfitters along the trail were always out of stock when I need a new cartridge. I opted to use a filter because of instant gratification (no waiting for the chemical treatment take effect) and I don't like the idea of consuming chemical treatments almost everyday for 6 months.

I comes down to personal preference, but I'd either consider a filter (pump or gravity) or Aquamira. All water treatment systems have their cons, but it beats getting sick on the trail. I did know a few thruhikers who had to take time off trail to treat Giardia. Not fun.

[jjohn06]

Bleach is not effective? I've done quit a bit of reading and have had a fair amount of experience with bleach, and never heard that it was ineffective. I am very curious, where is his data from?

[whitelightning]

Bleach is effective at killing bacteria and viruses, but not all protozoa such as Cryptosporidium. Bleach also has a shelf life which can limit its for effectiveness as a water purifier. You also have to be careful of the amount of bleach you use.

http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/faq/emerg.html

[jnl82381]

jjohn - thanks, by far the best response. were you an english major? you write a pretty good argument paper :) i've been doing a little more digging into things and i think i'll be taking aquamira.

I figured the Miox might be easier because i wouldn't have to worry about getting anything new for it besides salt and batteries. both of which i figured to be readily available along the trail. the price and weight have made me change my mind.

Thanks

[jjohn06]

Right, let me clarify. Bleach is effective against Giardia, not crypto, but then again, not alot is, especially for all practical purposes. MIOX takes 4 hours, Polar Pure does nothing against crypto. The Polar Pure website also notes that "no chemical water disinfectants... have been tested by EPA for their effectiveness against cryptosporidium."(I don't know if that is true, I guess I'll have to look it up). Micropur tablets up to 4 hours, aquamira is similar if I recall. The only sure (and realistic) way to get rid of crypto is a filter that is absolutely (not nominally) smaller than 1 micron.

[gravityman]

Bleach is NOT effective against Giardia when used for drinking water. It would have to taste like pool water to be effective.

I've had a hard time finding really quanitative disussion for this. The best site I've found is the British Colombia health ministry :http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/healthfiles/hfile49b.stm

which states: Bleach does not work well in killing off Giardia or beaver fever or Cryptosporidium parasites. The amount of bleach needed to kill these parasites makes the water almost impossible to drink. If Cryptosporidium or Giardia are in your water, boiling is the best way to ensure safe drinking water.

The epa site suggests using bleach to treat your water, but that's only in an emergency, in which case something that almost everyone has on hand is suggested.

As for the logisitics of using the MIOX, this was simple.

As for the safety of the chemicals, they are as safe as what comes from municipal water supplies.

As for cost, we used 2 batteries over the whole trip.

As for the 4 hour time to treat, this is an overstatement by MSR based on extemely conservative assumptions (very cold water, cloudy, etc). I believe the real-life treatment time is 30 minutes based on the research I did at the time (2005).

Gravityman

[gravityman]

But, that all said, we use a mechanical filter now a days. The taste after 4+ months is what did it in for us...

Gravity