View Full Version : Crampons for the Smokies in winter?
SGT Rock
08-25-2004, 07:45
As y'all may already know, I am moving to Knoxville, TN next month. I plan to get a lot more time on the AT and surrounding trails after I get there. We recently got an LT in the unit that went to college there and he recommended having crampons for hiking in the Smokies because the trails are coated with ice often during the colder months.
I know I have a body of experienced hikers here from that area - should I get some crampons or is this a little overkill?
Blue Jay
08-25-2004, 08:13
I used crampons in February of '98'. There was no other way. I've been told other years at that time, there was no ice. They don't weigh much, but when you need them, you really need them.
Uncle Wayne
08-25-2004, 08:33
We were on the Alum Cave trail to Mt. LeConte March 24, 2004 and the trail had several sections that were very dangerous because of ice. Some other hikers who came up on the Boulevard Trail (leaves the AT near Ice Water Springs Shelter) had to use crampons almost all the way.
Tn Bandit
08-25-2004, 08:36
Depending on the snowfall, consider instep crampons. There usually isn’t constant snowfall but what happens it snows one day then temps rise and starts to melt then freezes back in the evening. So the trail is usually clear for quiet a while then a glaze of ice for half a mile. These are light and pack away in an outside pocket and on/off easy. Mt LeConte will be an ice rink until May and many of the northern slopes of the AT stay frozen until late spring but the other park trails usually are in ok shape.
TN Bandit
http://www.smhclub.org/
http://www.localhikes.com
SGT Rock
08-25-2004, 08:39
If you don't need them all the time, would something like the Yaktrak be enough?
Blue Jay
08-25-2004, 08:46
If you don't need them all the time, would something like the Yaktrak be enough?
Yaktraks are for driveways. On the AT they would last maybe a mile or two.
For me insteps are agravating. I have to stop every 100 yards and adjust them. Just buy some good crampons. Believe me, I'm so cheap I eat out of dumpsters but I'd bite the bullet again to get something good. On ice you hit twice, once when you fall and then again when you slide into the tree or off the cliff.
SGT Rock
08-25-2004, 08:53
OK, so YakTrak suck. Any reccomendations. I don't hink I will need Sherpa class crampons here.
Blue Jay
08-25-2004, 09:18
OK, so YakTrak suck. Any reccomendations. I don't hink I will need Sherpa class crampons here.
They don't suck, they're great for going from your house to the car. Unfortunately, I have never seen crampons for under a hundred dollars. The "Sherpa class" ones have the two front kicker teeth and no you don't need those. Get the ones that fit under your entire shoe that have at least 6 teeth. I don't think brand name matters but I have only owned one pair and have no idea what brand they are, so what do I know about that anyway.
SGT Rock
08-25-2004, 09:28
How about something like this:
Climb High Instep Crampon (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?memberId=12500226&productId=47886)
Furlough
08-25-2004, 09:35
Rock,
Check out Campmor for a few ideas. I borrowed a pair of "Climb High Instep Crampons" from my Dad this past winter for a weekend loop on the AT-Austin Mt Trail- Furnace Mt Trail in the Shennies. He got them from Campmor. This was my first experience with crampons, and I am glad I had them. After using the instep type I can see where a design that has spikes at the toes and heels may be better. Aside from offering better traction options they would probably be more comfortable for your feet. Come to think of it I need to order a pair myself and stop yogiing from my Dad.:)
slabfoot
08-25-2004, 09:35
Rock,
i read in Flyin' Brians journal where he carried a bag of small sheet metal screws and a nut driver. he would screw them in where he needed them and remove and reuse as required.I've not tried this but it sounds workable for most situations i've encountered. If conditions require more than that I'd be in town anyway :)
Furlough
08-25-2004, 09:36
Sorry about that Rock!!! I was typing as you were posting. Those are the ones I used.
gravityman
08-25-2004, 09:57
How about something like this:
Climb High Instep Crampon (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?memberId=12500226&productId=47886)
I am NOT a big fan on instep cramp-ons. They really, well, cramp (hehehe) your style. You can't walk with a normal stride, you have to always step with a flat foot. This can be very difficult going up steaper trails.
These are the best thing that I have found for use on trails that need something. The greatest thing about them is that you can use them with trail runners and they are reasonable light. They also seem to last pretty well. We used them to go up Mt. Washington in December as well as a lot of iced over Front Range trails here in boulder. Could also use them for trail running.
http://www.kahtoola.com/
tlbj6142
08-25-2004, 10:34
While a bit heavy (1.5# a pair) I'd put in a good word for www.stabilicers.com (http://www.stabilicers.com). I used them to cross a section of the smokies in Jan 2003. Couldn't have done it without them.
They are very easy to take on and off. And they work quite well on just rocks and such. Unlike some crampons which are difficult to use when you walk across rocks. Which means you don't have to "walk funny" on the rocky sections between ice patches.
They run $50 a pair, but you can often find them at the "end of the season" for much less.
Akagrace
08-25-2004, 10:49
I have been up LaConte many times and most trips were by the Alum trail and in winter, mostly at night. There have been times when I had to do the butt scoot across the ice on the slide areas and once when I refused to cross even with crampons because the ice was thicker than my height would allow me to step up. There are steel cables along the slide areas to use for a hand hold, but during winter months most all of them are covered and pined to the rock wall with a thick sheet of ice. It is a good idea to carry the crampons. I have always used the instep type just because they are cheap and lightweight. They can be a pain though if there is also snow. The snow tends to ball up in the center between the teeth and you have to stop frequently to clean them out. They are also uncomfortable and since those trails can be pretty rocky, can cause you some bad ankle turns if the rocks are hidden under the snow. The crew up there places bets on when the first snow will be. Most of the time it is Nov., but on occassion it has been late Oct. For sure......carrry them late Nov. thru May.
aardvarkdave
08-25-2004, 12:22
I've no knowledge of the geographical area, but when I need poons I use camp 6-point lights. 8oz a pair and cover the whole forefoot. As a result, the walking action is much more natural (unlike insteps), the ball of the foot has maximum grip, and you don't catch your heels in descent. AFAIK they're as light as the lightest insteps or elastic-band style poons but behave close to a proper crampon. Only problem is aluminium ain't the most durable on rocks so you have to take care whe it gets drier.
Best of all, they're reasonably priced at c. $60.
edited coz my grammar is awful
rock, don't get the cheapy insteps. They almost got me killed going up Leconte one year. they don't stay tight, tend to roll out from under your boot, ball up snow/ice, hard to put on/off when frozen.
i saw one guy make it up that same trip with yak's, but he said never again.
I bought a pair of Kahtoola's this year..used them once in light ice...loved them so far. easy on and off, stayed tight, flex with boot, were a little tricky on spots with more rocks than ice. but they are so easy to pop off and on you can go without.
Have to give a thumb's up to Kahtoolas. As already stated, they work great with trail runners, are easy to adjust and are not difficult to put on or take off. I picked up a pair on eBay and couldn't be happier.
i agree that going cheap is a mistake. i wore a pair up to icewater this winter and they were bent all to hell by the icy rocks by the time i got there. if you're going to hike a lot in the winter, you might as well get a decent pair. you don't need anything all that heavy duty but something a good deal better than the cheapest, lightest thing. some winters, you won't need them at all. but over there on the eastern half of the a.t. in the smokies, it's pretty damn icy a lot of the winter.
Rock,
I've hiked in winter, zero minus conditions, in the GSMNP. The following items, especially the first and cheapest, are really all you need.
Ice Walker quick clip Cleats by Covell $12.00
Advanced Get-A-Grip Ice Joggers - $27.00
Walk; hike or jog with confidence. These cleats will stretch to fit over any footwear from running shoes to insulated pacboots.
The next step up being full cramp-ons are really only needed in the Whites in the dead of Winter. Can be used in the Smokies, but overkill and overly expensive for a good pair.
Snowshoes may be good about ever 10 years or so in the Smokies.
The Solemates
06-14-2006, 09:51
Rock,
I've hiked in winter, zero minus conditions, in the GSMNP.
ditto. but i dont think you need anything but boots. to each his own.
all these people who say they've hiked in the smokies in the winter and that you don't need crampons haven't hiked in the smokies in the winter when you do need crampons. sometimes you do need them and sometimes you don't. i used to think you didn't need crampons in the winter in the smokies but then i went there in the winter a few times when the trail was like a damn skating rink. then i realized that you do need crampons. and those advanced get-a-trip ice joggers look to me like they'd fall apart after a few miles.
all these people who say they've hiked in the smokies in the winter and that you don't need crampons haven't hiked in the smokies in the winter when you do need crampons. .........
It doesn't even have to be winter months, I was up there in the Spring when water from springs can freeze-over in the middle of the trail, thus an ice skate into hell. I always carry (at a minimum) my quick-clip Cleats when I think this is a possibility. People need to realize it can be sunshine and 25 degs warmer down on the highway, and a snow or an ice blizzard on top.
LostInSpace
06-14-2006, 14:52
The Grivel G10 crampons will fit most boots and shoes. They weigh 1 lb. 13 oz.
Good price here: http://www.whittakermountaineering.com/detail.asp?p=70&c=Crampons&cat=5&rootid=6&root=6
The Grivel G10 crampons will fit most boots and shoes. They weigh 1 lb. 13 oz.
Good price here: http://www.whittakermountaineering.com/detail.asp?p=70&c=Crampons&cat=5&rootid=6&root=6
now we're talking. that's what you need.
LostInSpace
06-14-2006, 16:30
The Grivel G10 crampons will fit most boots and shoes. They weigh 1 lb. 13 oz.
Good price here: http://www.whittakermountaineering.com/detail.asp?p=70&c=Crampons&cat=5&rootid=6&root=6
Actually, the Black Diamond Neve (http://www.mgear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/Black+Diamond/idesc/Neve/Store/MG/item/203349/level3_id/0/level1_id/0/level2_id/0/N/0#specs) may be a better choice for GSMNP because they are lighter, 1 lb 1 oz aluminum, but they are not as durable as the chrome molly G10. Get the "straps" version.
The Solemates
06-14-2006, 16:34
all these people who say they've hiked in the smokies in the winter and that you don't need crampons haven't hiked in the smokies in the winter when you do need crampons. sometimes you do need them and sometimes you don't. i used to think you didn't need crampons in the winter in the smokies but then i went there in the winter a few times when the trail was like a damn skating rink. then i realized that you do need crampons. and those advanced get-a-trip ice joggers look to me like they'd fall apart after a few miles.
its no big deal to walk around these areas. we've spent plenty of time in the smokies. the last winter we had 3 foot snow drifts on the trail and 441 had been closed down for a week. we saw no one for the full week we were there. weve also seen plenty of ice, but you usually can walk around it. not trying to be macho or anything...just saying its not absolutely necessary. not worth carrying the weight when you may only use them for 15 minutes a day.
The Grivel G10 crampons will fit most boots and shoes. They weigh 1 lb. 13 oz.....
I would have to say "on occasion", just like snowshoes, you may need something like this. The clip-ons I use weigh in at about 5 ozs or so.
its no big deal to walk around these areas. we've spent plenty of time in the smokies. the last winter we had 3 foot snow drifts on the trail and 441 had been closed down for a week. we saw no one for the full week we were there. weve also seen plenty of ice, but you usually can walk around it. not trying to be macho or anything...just saying its not absolutely necessary. not worth carrying the weight when you may only use them for 15 minutes a day.
do you think i can't tell when you can walk around ice and when you can't? you obviously haven't hiked on the trail when it is COMPLETELY covered by thick ice. i have done so a few times. without crampons, you go very slowly and you still fall down occasionally. in these conditions, you not only need crampons, you need a good pair because the cheap, clip-on thingys will bend
.......because the cheap, clip-on thingys will bend
Mine doesn't...
The Solemates
06-15-2006, 12:20
do you think i can't tell when you can walk around ice and when you can't? you obviously haven't hiked on the trail when it is COMPLETELY covered by thick ice. i have done so a few times. without crampons, you go very slowly and you still fall down occasionally. in these conditions, you not only need crampons, you need a good pair because the cheap, clip-on thingys will bend
ive never been on a mountain in the Smokies where the entire thing, from base to summit, is covered by ice, and neither have you. heaven forbid you would have to walk off the trail a little ways to go around the icy section.
Alligator
06-15-2006, 12:46
If anyone is still reading this looking for options, I bought a pair of these last winter.
http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/climbdetail.cfm?PRODUCTS__ProductID=CMP300
On sale for $49.99.
They are a little meatier than yaktrax, not too expensive, and fairly light at <8ozs. I took them out last winter, but didn't need them. They come with a bag. I read a lot of reviews about yaktrax and the smaller cleat like types. There were often complaints of durability. These are aluminum, but I think would stand up pretty good to occassional light use while providing very good traction. Where you might use them is up to you.
ive never been on a mountain in the Smokies where the entire thing, from base to summit, is covered by ice, and neither have you. heaven forbid you would have to walk off the trail a little ways to go around the icy section.
well, then you weren't on the trail going up from newfound gap to icewater shelter and beyond because one fine day in march this year it was completely covered by ice and you couldn't go around it without falling off the damn ridge. i believe that would be from the gap to the summit of mount kephart, would it not? i would suggest that you haven't hiked in the smokies as much as you claim.
As I mentioned in post #23. Even in Spring the GSMNP trails at high elevations can freeze and there are lots of places you just can't walk around. Before I starting carrying cleats, I would even sit down and slide down some sections. It's very dangerous even with the cleats.
The Solemates
06-15-2006, 14:03
well, then you weren't on the trail going up from newfound gap to icewater shelter and beyond because one fine day in march this year it was completely covered by ice and you couldn't go around it without falling off the damn ridge. i believe that would be from the gap to the summit of mount kephart, would it not? i would suggest that you haven't hiked in the smokies as much as you claim.
Ive done newfound gap to icewater on the AT probably 25 times. You?
Cutting across the Sawteeth beyond Charlie's Bunion is always fun, especially in the winter.
Ive done newfound gap to icewater on the AT probably 25 times. You?
i've done it 26 times
The Solemates
06-15-2006, 15:50
i've done it 26 times
:) :)
Alligator
06-15-2006, 15:58
29 uphill both ways in the snow.
The Solemates
06-15-2006, 17:19
29 uphill both ways in the snow.
without shoes, without a jacket, and while hauling 70lbs of textbooks.
It's starting to get real DEEP, and I'm pretty sure it's not SNOW!!
The Solemates
07-14-2006, 08:24
heading up there today. i'll be sure to bring my crampons.
white rabbit
07-14-2006, 12:13
One option to crampons: If I think it's going to be icy I carry a small amount of course sand. Sprinkle a little on the ice and you will get much better traction.