View Full Version : Permethrin Warning !
I have two experiences to share. One good and one very very bad but the only common thread is the Permethrin itself. The main reason I am sharing this is to give a heads' up as to the potential problem in it's use if you have cats.
A few months back I used the REPEL PERMANONE Clothing & Gear treatment spray on some shorts and socks & stuff before hiking New York and New Jersey into CT. I followed the directions and let the stuff dry well before even touching the gear and insured no pets were in the area during treatment. I must say the results were outstanding even after a wash or two.
A few days ago we took in a stray cat. Vet says maybe 5 months old. We bought and applied some SERGEANT"S Flea And Tick Spray for Cats and followed the instructions. Now this cat is at the vet in very bad shape and might not make it. Initially the cat began to drool, became wobbly, didn't want to eat and was twitching and moving/acting slow. I washed him with a mild soap and warm water since I suspected a reaction to the spray. Took it to the vet, with the spray bottle, and was basically told we had poisoned our cat. Although the product clearly states For Cats, the Permethrin is NOT to EVER be used on cats. Dogs, OK, but never cats.
We took it home hoping for the best but he got worse. Just before we brought him back in to the vet he had full blown symptoms which are very similar to rabies and something you do not ever wish to witness or experience.
In a nut shell:
1. BE 100% CERTAIN THERE WILL BE NO CATS IN THE VICINITY IF YOU PLAN TO TREAT YOUR GEAR WITH A PRODUCT CONTAINING PERMETHRIN !
2. DO NOT ASSUME A STORE BOUGHT PRODUCT INTENDED FOR CATS IS ACTUALLY SAFE FOR CATS, EVEN IF IT CARRIES A WELL KNOWN NAME !
3. PERMETHRIN + CAT may = DEATH as there is no antidote !
i am so very sorry about your cat! that is HORRIBLE! but thank you so much for the warning!
Not Sunshine
11-29-2009, 12:50
1. BE 100% CERTAIN THERE WILL BE NO CATS IN THE VICINITY IF YOU PLAN TO TREAT YOUR GEAR WITH A PRODUCT CONTAINING PERMETHRIN !
2. DO NOT ASSUME A STORE BOUGHT PRODUCT INTENDED FOR CATS IS ACTUALLY SAFE FOR CATS, EVEN IF IT CARRIES A WELL KNOWN NAME !
3. PERMETHRIN + CAT may = DEATH as there is no antidote !
There may be some military guys out there - but isn't atropine and/or "2PAM" an antidote for permethrin. it's a pesticidal cholinergic isn't it? so if it causes drooling/weaping shouldn't atropine dry those side effects up? isn't permethrin like nerve gas?
regardless, i am sorry about your kitty. poor thing. i hope (s)he recovers. :(
I have witnessed some sad things happening to man & beast but never anything quite like this. Just the sounds this cat, Cricket, made early the other morning made our hair stand up. He seemed to be trying to get away from himself and/or an imagined attacker. In between the jerky and hyper times he could barely sit up and had little control of his legs. I once saw him run through a walk thru closet and around again only to grab all paws into the rug with his body still wanting to move forward. All at once his legs began to work again. Just before then his jaws unlocked long enough for him to drink some milk but soon locked back up. I awoke twice to find him sitting a few feet away looking at me. I would blink and he would be gone. At around 4:30am he began the unholy shreiking and had backed into a corner in the bedroom. He was drooling/foaming at the mouth. We captured him in a towel and placed him in a box with air holes then tapped the box shut.
I don't what this Permethrin will do to a human but I can imagine if it was the same as it is for a cat I might shoot you if you came to my door in such a poisoned state.
that is so pitiful!!! I am so sorry about your kitty! Although I do not own a cat, I do have a dog, so I can sympathize with you. I think I would hesitate using it on my dog now that you have posted. Again...so sorry!!!
nitewalker
11-29-2009, 13:09
this is very unfourtunate but seems to be hapening often. the same problem occured a few months ago to a cat that a friend of mine has. the cat made a full recovery[supposedll] but it was a very hellish experience to the owners and most of all to the unsuspecting cat....bummer, i hope the little guy makes a full recovery......
Vet called. He ate some this morning. Yesterday they knocked him out so they could put in a catheter. Will see what tomorrow brings.
The Old Fhart
11-29-2009, 16:34
Wow! Sorry that happened. I wasn't aware of the problem but Googled a little bit and found quite a bit of information on the subject. Cats are quite sensitive to this product and some cases have been reported where the dogs in the family were treated and the cats were poisoned by rubbing against the dogs. Here is a good article (http://www.petplace.com/cats/permethrin-and-pyrethrin-toxicity-in-cats/page1.aspx) I found that explains the problem.
Permethrin and Pyrethrin Toxicity in Cats
By: Dr. Dawn Ruben
Overview
Fleas are frustrating and annoying insects that thrive on our pets, and getting rid of them is an important and sometimes difficult process. Fortunately, many products are available to reduce the flea population within our homes and on our pets. The most popular products include those supplied in small tubes that are applied to the back of the animal. This type of product generally lasts for about 30 days.
The most common types of insecticide used to kill fleas are pyrethrins. These products are derived from the chrysanthemum plant. When used according to label directions, pyrethrins are safe and effective. Synthetic insecticides have more recently been formulated to increase strength and effectiveness. The active ingredient in these synthetic-based insecticides is permethrin.
Toxicity related to pyrethrins is usually associated with applying much more of the product than directed. Overdosing can cause toxic signs in both dogs and cats.
Permethrins, the synthetic insecticide, has a much greater potential for resulting in toxicity. Permethrin based topical flea products are usually labeled "for use in dogs only." There is a wide safety margin for permethrins in dogs. Cats, however, are exquisitely susceptible to the toxic effects of permethrins. Application of permethrin-based insecticide to a cat will usually result in toxic signs within 6 hours.
What to Watch For
• Drooling
• Lethargy
• Muscle tremors
• Vomiting
• Seizures
Diagnosis
The diagnosis of permethrin or pyrethrin toxicity is based on physical exam findings as well as a recent history of topical flea product application. Although skin and hair tests can be done to confirm the presence of insecticide, those results may take several days.
Treatment
Treatment involves eliminating any existing product from the body and controlling seizures and muscle tremors. Expect your veterinarian to recommend hospitalization with continuous intravenous fluids. Additional recommendations for treatment may include:
• Bathing in a mild dish soap with lukewarm water to remove additional flea product for the pet's skin and reduce the amount absorbed
• Administering diazepam or pentobarbitol for seizure control
• Administering methocarbamol to treat muscle tremors. This may be given multiple times throughout the hospital stay.
If treated early, the majority of pets suffering from permethrin/pyrethrin toxicity recover enough to go home within 24-48 hours, although fine muscle tremors may continue for several days.
Home Care and Prevention
If you suspect your cat may have permethrin/pyrethrin toxicity, the most important part of home care is to bathe the pet in lukewarm water using mild dish soap. Do not use flea shampoo and avoid hot water since that will dilate blood vessels in the skin and increase the absorption of the flea product.
Once the cat is bathed, contact your veterinarian or local veterinary emergency facility immediately. Additional treatment is probably required.
The best way to prevent toxicity to flea products is to read the labels and follow the directions. If a product is labeled "for use in dogs only," do not use it on cats. Cats have different metabolisms from dogs and are much more sensitive to certain medications, drug or toxins.
sorry about your cat. but i'm missing a connection... is the Sergeant's brand stuff made with Permethrin? If so, i had no idea. I have two cats (one indoor, one outdoor) and a dog, and thank you for the heads up...
Blue Jay
11-30-2009, 12:16
that is so pitiful!!! I am so sorry about your kitty! Although I do not own a cat, I do have a dog, so I can sympathize with you. I think I would hesitate using it on my dog now that you have posted. Again...so sorry!!!
Very sorry to hear about your cat. Actually one of my good friends had the same thing happen to his dog. Most dogs do not have a problem but some dogs, especially pure breeds, are highly allergic to many chemicals.
I'm sorry to hear about this... but it's nice to know it can be used as Cat Repellent, too.
brooklynkayak
11-30-2009, 12:49
Be aware that Permethrin is commonly used for pest control and there are other insecticides that are even worse.
As stated when Permethrin is used correctly it is harmless to Mammals, but should never be used in cat products and if they are, shame on the companies doing this.
Permethrin applied to clothing and then washed can come in contact with cats without issue, but I still keep my hiking cloths in a drawer that the cats can't get into, just for safety sake.
I've gone through Lyme Disease and so have many friends. It has become very common along the AT and using Permethrin treated clothing is the best/safest option so far.
FritztheCat
11-30-2009, 16:46
I've used permethrin and didn't have a reaction. :D
Seriously, thanks for the head's up! I have three cats and would hate for something to happen to them because of me treating my clothes. We use the advantage stuff that goes behind the head on the skin for flea control. Works great! Been using it for years with no ill side affects on the cats.
Hope your cat pulls through! Tough little guy!
Stellbell3
11-30-2009, 18:08
Oh poor kitty!
Although that permetherin stuff is supposed to work wonders, I dont trust putting ANY chemical that strong on my body.
We may get the little rascal back Wednesday. Claire went to see him a little while ago. He ate three times today. Still twitching and still wobbly but we'll see how it goes. They say a cat takes longer to get rid of such nasty stuff longer than some other creatures.
Bottomline - PERMETHRIN and it's cousins are NOT to be used near or on a cat ! As mentioned above, some of these products, when fully dried after application to gear or carpet, should do no harm to man nor beast......but should do the trick with insects as intended.
Snowleopard
11-30-2009, 21:15
I'm sorry about your cat.
Permethrin is also very toxic to fish, so be careful when you're spraying it that it not get into water.
Not Sunshine
11-30-2009, 22:42
Yeah - it's (permethrin) the DOC (drug of choice) for treatment of Scabies. I'm glad no body knows this on WB - it proves that although we may choose to live in the woods, we're not homeless (as scabies is common in homeless folks).
Which leaves wonder as to why I know this information..... oops.
(no, I have not had scabies, but I have seen it on patients). Those little buggers tend to eat "breakfast, lunch, and dinner" forming a little trail of bite marks although I believe they crawl just under the epidermis. And they itch like crazy, evidently. mmmmm...
http://www.stanford.edu/class/humbio103/ParaSites2004/Scabies/scabies1.jpg
makes one think twice before even TOUCHING clothing left behind at shelters - even if only to pack it out.
I'm sorry about your cat.
Permethrin is also very toxic to fish, so be careful when you're spraying it that it not get into water.
This could be a good reason to carry a pair of light weight shorts for swimming rather tha using your treated hiking clothing. Not sure how much is needed to foul a small stream. Just a thought.
Snowleopard
12-01-2009, 12:58
This could be a good reason to carry a pair of light weight shorts for swimming rather tha using your treated hiking clothing. Not sure how much is needed to foul a small stream. Just a thought.
Very little is needed to cause problems with aquatic animals, but once it's bonded to your clothing it may be OK-- I'm not sure. More important is to be very careful when using it that it not get into the water.
brooklynkayak
12-04-2009, 11:20
Although that permetherin stuff is supposed to work wonders, I dont trust putting ANY chemical that strong on my body.
You don't put pemethrin on your body, it does no good there. It washes away when you perspire. You treat your cloths with it then wash your clothes before wearing them.
Permethrin may scare people, but it has been around for decades and has been proven to be harmless to mammals when used correctly. It is used in businesses and farms. It is sprayed into the fur of farm animals and dogs without issue, but should NEVER be sprayed on cats.
It is common for Hotels/Motels to spray their carpet with it. It is one of the safest pest control products out there.
Including it in cat products is NOT using it correctly. Dumping it into rivers is NOT using it correctly.
Statistically, Permithrin has been shown to be far safer than Lyme Disease. So I will always prefer permethrin over Lyme.
People may not want to believe it, but Lyme disease is very common on the AT. Almost everyone I know who spends a lot of time outdoors has had it. It can be real bad for you if it goes undetected. Some people have it for years without knowing it. Most catch it right away and are only sick for a week or so, but if not caught right away, can cause all kinds of bad things to happen too you.
I had it for months before the symptoms showed up. It took several months for the symptoms to go away, The symptoms were probably caused by a reaction to the flood of antibodies left over after it was cured, but the symptoms were bad just the same.
I have a big 10% concentrated bottle of it and treat only my hiking clothes with it once every 4 months.
Be aware that the stuff that you get from outfitters is usually only 00.5% permethrin and costs about the same as the 10% stuff that you get from farm supplies.
You can delute it to 00.5% yourself and save a lot of money.
Again, my vote is for permethrin, but HYOH.