View Full Version : Winterizing my Sleeping Bag
I like to ask for opinions to help me consider an option. My sleeping bag is a Marmot Equilibrium EQ rated 20 degrees. I love to winter hike, but I sleep cold. Has anyone tried putting hand warmers in a down bag to generate heat to extend the sleeping bags comfort zone? Any drawbacks? I can buy a lot of hand warmers for the price of a new 0 degree bag if this option makes sense. thanks
Ol Mole
RiverWarriorPJ
11-30-2009, 20:47
...sure....i use them in my down bag alot...but how many can u carry..??..i bring 4 or 5 and use only when really needed
Snowleopard
11-30-2009, 21:01
Use another cheap synthetic sleeping bag over your 20 degree bag or, even better, sew an overbag yourself.
Many Walks
11-30-2009, 21:07
Put heated water in your nalgene in the foot end of your bag. Takes off the chill and in the AM you'll have water for cooking that isn't frozen. Won't have to carry anything special except a little extra fuel. A little reflective bubble insulation material is light and helps provide more insulation under your pad from the cold ground.
The trouble with handwarmers... the colder it is, and the colder you are, the less effective they are.
Go for a good bag, or try the bag-on-bag trick.
I've read mixed results with the overbag thing; my guess is that it's not the most weight efficient approach. Other common ideas include:
- a bag liner of some sort (I sometimes use one but don't count on much of a temp boost from it)
- wearing insulated clothing inside the bag (bag needs to be large enough to hold both you and your clothes without compressing the insulation of those clothes too much)
- a bivy sack, and/or a tent or other shelter can increase overall temp rating
- sufficient ground insulation (padding)
- good site selection to avoid particular cold spots
- simply "fluff up" the bag, i.e., shake to distribute the down and maxmize the loft before getting in it
- jumping jacks before getting into the bag at night
- add spot insulation where it's particularly needed --- perhaps a torso length pad to increase R-value of padding at your core, or perhaps down or other (synthetic) lofting booties for feet, etc
I like to ask for opinions to help me consider an option. My sleeping bag is a Marmot Equilibrium EQ rated 20 degrees. I love to winter hike, but I sleep cold. Has anyone tried putting hand warmers in a down bag to generate heat to extend the sleeping bags comfort zone? Any drawbacks? I can buy a lot of hand warmers for the price of a new 0 degree bag if this option makes sense. thanks
Ol Mole
If you're cold, you're cold. That means your sleeping bag isn't quite warm enough. Forget about heaters and hot water bottles, you won't always have them.
You can increase your bag's warmth by going to a fabric store and buying some fleece (look for off-season patterns like easter or cartoon) for about $6 per yard. Buy one square yard.
Fold it in half lengthwise then sew it up on three sides for a liner for your bag. This should add about 10 degrees of warmth.
Consider how you might utilize other cold weather gear that you normally carry. My wife Tag-along is a cold sleeper as well. During our 09 thru hike she and found it helpful to zip up her Montbell Synthetic Jacket, putting sleeves in the neck area, and then putting her feet in it - something like a pillow case for feet. She also put her rain shell over her mid body area, stuffing sleeves underneath to keep it in place.
I carry a poncho liner that I have modified with a head hole for camp wear.
I folded it long ways and tied the sides together. I put this inside my Kelty 25 degree bag and it was okay to the teens. It didn'y work at all outside the bag. I couldn't keep it in place.
i second brian le's suggestion of doing jumping jacks before bed. you'll heat up that dead air in the bag in no time
Many thanks for the ideas. I have tried some of them. The fleece sounds like it may be a good option along with clothes. I tend to get wound up in the bag with those, but they may be better than cold. The hand warmers weigh about 1 oz and since I do section hiking for a couple days at a time, the additional weight of them is less than a pund and they take up little room.
Ol Mole
I carry a stainless water bottle in cold weather. We usually have a fire at night and I take the opportunity to heat up some water in the bottle (leaving the plastic top off). I also carry an insulated holster in cold weather. The bottle goes in the holster and they both go into the bag with me at night (along with my stove fuel, especially if I'm using alcohol) and a bottle of warm water which speeds up heating at breakfast time.
i second brian le's suggestion of doing jumping jacks before bed. you'll heat up that dead air in the bag in no timeYeah, then it will fill the bag with condensation from his sweat. Which will then turn into a chilling dampness inside the bag, possibly contributing to the onset of hypothermia.
Always strive to keep dampness/water out of your sleeping bag!
Brass Rat
12-01-2009, 09:08
I've read mixed results with the overbag thing; my guess is that it's not the most weight efficient approach. Other common ideas include....
Another trick is to have something hot to drink just before bed, but load it with some fat. For example, Hot Cocoa, but melt in a pat of butter or some oil. It gives you some extra fast calories to burn while you're going to sleep.
ShelterLeopard
12-01-2009, 09:24
Yeah, but use good, thick hot cocoa, or it'll taste pretty bad. Cocoa poweder is best, any "gourmet" hot chocolate. Because those are meant to be thick and can taste fairly good with butter or oil. And mix it with NiDo. On the other hand, you're a hiker. Probably the taste won't matter after a bit.
Question: Has anyone ever had their nalgene leak in their bags, even after drying off the mouth and lid? I've been wanting to try it for ages, but I'm not sure. Down bag- makes me uneasy to stuff it with water. And I do like the idea of keeping my fuel bottle in the foot of my bag too.
Not sure how u fit in your bag, but since you are winter hiking, you must have extra layers going. I usually carry a vest and some other warm sleeved layer. I put the vest over my feet area, and the jacket over my torso area on top of me, in the bag, but not wearing them. Fills the space, and really warms the temp of the bag. I can't use a liner, toss and turn issues. These are down items, but fleece should work about as well.
Alligator
12-01-2009, 11:07
The best option is to get the new bag. There are a lot of options to extend the range and be warmer but the weight difference on a new bag is generally at least the same if not better than most warmth adding solutions. (Or they still apply if you do get a new bag.) If you go out often enough, you will get the use of the new bag that you paid for as well as save wear and tear on your lighter bag.
garlic08
12-01-2009, 11:15
Question: Has anyone ever had their nalgene leak in their bags, even after drying off the mouth and lid? I've been wanting to try it for ages, but I'm not sure. Down bag- makes me uneasy to stuff it with water. And I do like the idea of keeping my fuel bottle in the foot of my bag too.
I always put my bottle or bladder in a large plastic bag. Never had a leak, but I won't risk it.
The hot water bottle gets my vote. Being well-fed and hydrated is important, as well as never having gotten cold to begin with. It sounds trite, but the best way to stay warm is to never get cold.
I always sleep warmer with less bulky clothing, just a layer of clean long underwear. I might bring my down vest in to warm up a cold spot like my thighs or feet if I have to sleep directly on snow.
I'm personally opposed to the chemical handwarmers because they're non-renewable and you'll probably dump the antifreeze into the trash.
If you haven't spent a cold night out yet in the Marmot, you might be surprised. I've had mine down into the low teens comfortably, and have survived in the single digits. It's an excellent bag.
ShelterLeopard
12-01-2009, 11:23
Thanks garlic- I figured a plastic bag, just wanted to see if anyone had had a problem. And I had similar thoughts on the hand warmer. I've considered bringing three (to throw down my sleeping bag on a bad night, so when I climb in it'll be warm at the feet), but first- who knows what is inside, second, you should probably pack 'em out, because I don't think breathing in fumes of burning hand warmers is a good idea.
I was going to recommend the Eddie Bauer reusable handwarmer, but they only last half an hour (well, a bit longer) and don't get nearly as warm.
To the suggestion of jumping jacks, Post said "Yeah, then it will fill the bag with condensation from his sweat."
One hopes to hit a sweet spot between shivering cold and sweaty hot ...
I tend to "run hot", but find it no problem to do something like jumping jacks to the point of having a warmer core --- and btw warmer extremities --- without taking it to the point of sweating. I think that with experience one can tune this well to the situation.
And if a bit cold and already in the bag, some sit-ups can help. I prefer jumping jacks ahead of time to get more blood flowing out to my feet. Less fiddle factor, time spent, and fuel used than a hot water nalgene, and I don't carry such a heavy water bottle anyway. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's wonderful to have a hot water nalgene, it's just not something I prefer to do personally. Maybe I'll change my mind this coming winter ... :-)
ShelterLeopard
12-01-2009, 12:09
To get blood flowing in your whole body, while already in your tent, is not difficult. Just pretend to be having a tempertantrum, while lying on your back, kick your feet, wave your arms around, in general, try to look as much like a lunatic or badly behaved child as possible.
Snowleopard
12-01-2009, 12:53
To get blood flowing in your whole body, while already in your tent, is not difficult. Just pretend to be having a tempertantrum, while lying on your back, kick your feet, wave your arms around, in general, try to look as much like a lunatic or badly behaved child as possible.
ShelterLeopard, could you please post a video of yourself demonstrating this technique?
Seriously, this sort of exercising can help a lot when getting into a cold bag. It's harder to do when you're inside the bag at 4 am and the temps are cold, but I suppose you could do some isometrics in the bag. Also, eating candy or drinking hot chocolate right before turning in helps a bit.
ShelterLeopard
12-01-2009, 13:19
I'd just like to say: :p :D
Use another cheap synthetic sleeping bag over your 20 degree bag or, even better, sew an overbag yourself.
I went to a thrift store and got a thick flannel flat sheet and sewed it in half like a sleeping bag. It worked great as a liner while I was in South Africa during the winter and its good during spring and summer camping when a bag is too warm. Cheap and very lightweight, too.
sixhusbands
12-01-2009, 15:09
A few years back I went to a local outfitter and purchased one of his cold weather rental bags for a fraction of what it cost new. The bag was almost new but in reality it saw very little use because few people rent cold weather bags. It is a Kelty -15% bag and I have used it on nights as low as -10% with no problems.
Happy hunting
WinterWarlock
12-01-2009, 16:44
I use a silk liner, because while it does add some warmth, it isn't as 'sticky' as fleece so I can move better. Plus, it isn't as bulky - I sometimes use it alone in the summer.
I found a great company in New Zealand. Even with shipping, it was still cheaper than the Sea to Summit ones found here.
Here's the link (http://www.jagbags.co.nz/products.htm)...I was very happy with their customer service.
ShelterLeopard
12-01-2009, 16:49
Really? Awesome- I didn't know you could do that.
ShelterLeopard
12-01-2009, 16:50
About sixhusbands getting the rental bag. Do you know how much it cost?
peakbagger
12-01-2009, 20:40
I use the exercise before bed trick and the Nalgene Bottle in ziplock bag trick. The Nalgene is good to stretch a bag 15 to 20 degrees. Worse case is having to wake up at 2 AM, and fire off the stove and heating a new bottle. Alternatively in the winter in real cold weather, I have a ensolite insulated water bottle cover, I store one bottle of hot water (hear boiling) in the cover and throw the other one in the bottom of the bag. When I get cold later in the night. I open up the bottle in the cover and have another 4 hours so of warmth.
In the past, I used the JoneE handwarmers which burn lighter fluid. They also work well if you have ventilation but I wont used them in a snow cave or very well sealed up tent. I dont think the chemical handwarmers are worth the weight but some folks like them.
The best solution for comfort and weight is a warmer bag
The best solution on a cost basis is a fleece liner
I've used a fleece liner comfortably on a 35* bag at 20*, and I've used a JRB Nest as an overquilt for a 20* bag at 10*. Slept warm with both set ups
The best solution w/o any additional cost or weight is to pour boiling water in bottles, not bladders, and take to bed with you. Bladders will fail eventually, sometimes catastrophically. I use the old style Gatorade bottles with the twist caps.
Forget about silk / cotton liners or chemical heaters. They are simply not worth the inconvenience.
Eating a high fat snack just before bed time helps warm the body for a while.
BrianLe is spot on about site selection. I was up near Dicks Creek Gap a few weekends ago. The morning temp was 49* and barely windy on the leeward side of a mountain ridge, but it was 34* at the bottom of the same mountain only 1.2 miles away.
Shelter / tent / hammock choice makes a big difference too. Shelters are drafty and very cold. I've recorded temps 7* warmer inside my Hennessy Hammock than outside; and I've recorded temps 14* warmer inside my Hilleberg Soulo than outside.
SassyWindsor
12-02-2009, 00:31
I use a silk liner. I did have a friend that was having a polypropylene liner made. I thing he was going to use some XL shirts to make it from. I'll try and find out if he did it and how well it works. I'm not real sure about this idea.
nitewalker
12-02-2009, 08:20
The best solution for comfort and weight is a warmer bag
The best solution on a cost basis is a fleece liner
I've used a fleece liner comfortably on a 35* bag at 20*, and I've used a JRB Nest as an overquilt for a 20* bag at 10*. Slept warm with both set ups
The best solution w/o any additional cost or weight is to pour boiling water in bottles, not bladders, and take to bed with you. Bladders will fail eventually, sometimes catastrophically. I use the old style Gatorade bottles with the twist caps.
Forget about silk / cotton liners or chemical heaters. They are simply not worth the inconvenience.
Eating a high fat snack just before bed time helps warm the body for a while.
BrianLe is spot on about site selection. I was up near Dicks Creek Gap a few weekends ago. The morning temp was 49* and barely windy on the leeward side of a mountain ridge, but it was 34* at the bottom of the same mountain only 1.2 miles away.
Shelter / tent / hammock choice makes a big difference too. Shelters are drafty and very cold. I've recorded temps 7* warmer inside my Hennessy Hammock than outside; and I've recorded temps 14* warmer inside my Hilleberg Soulo than outside.
good stuff!!!!!:sun
sixhusbands
12-02-2009, 09:11
The bag was one year old and listed for $215 and I got it for $40. It was almost new with all of the tags and was washed once. I have since washed it twice and it still looks new.
EMS usually moves out thier rental stuff at the end of each season.
ShelterLeopard
12-02-2009, 09:17
Wow- I had NO IDEA that you could do that. Great tip. And do all EMS stores do rentals and later sell them?
skinewmexico
12-02-2009, 12:09
Chemical hand warmers have never worked for me in a bag. Seems like they should, but they didn't. My TiGoat bivy helps some though.
camper10469
12-02-2009, 21:09
Cheapest solution is to buy a zero down bag. Sleeping cold is miserable and any solution you may find will just add pounds to your already heavy winter backpack.
Tricks don't work when your life is at stake.
I looked at new bags, but they are large and hard to stuff when you get a zero or below down bag. Since I went from an external frame to an internal frame, there is less room. The bags seem to stuff into something like 11" x 18" which is too large for the pack. I would love to find one that will stuff smaller.
Ol Mole
Tuckahoe
12-02-2009, 21:34
Here is my thought --
First is to make sure that you have a good sleeping bag. A good pad will also go along way to insulating. Pretty standard I guess.
Now, before all the other tricks do these --
Change the underclothing. Get into dry underclothes that you have not worn during the day. Dry socks and long johns -- especially woolen -- go along way to keeping warm. If you are not changing you are going to freeze, no matter what else you try.
Additionally, wear a balaklava or some sort of knitted woolen hood. I dont care that a mummy bag has a hood on it, that balaklava is just as good as any bag cover or fleece.
I looked at new bags, but they are large and hard to stuff when you get a zero or below down bag. Since I went from an external frame to an internal frame, there is less room. The bags seem to stuff into something like 11" x 18" which is too large for the pack. I would love to find one that will stuff smaller.
Ol Mole
Wrong, wrong, wrong
Western Mountaineering Kodiak MF 0* bag stuffs 9" x 18"
Mont Bell #0 stuffs 7.3" x 14.4"
Mont Bell #Exp stuffs 7.9" x 15.6"
mister krabs
12-02-2009, 21:47
I looked at new bags, but they are large and hard to stuff when you get a zero or below down bag. Since I went from an external frame to an internal frame, there is less room. The bags seem to stuff into something like 11" x 18" which is too large for the pack. I would love to find one that will stuff smaller.
Ol Mole
Campmor 0* stuffs to 8x18, but have you considered not using a stuff sack and letting it fill up space more naturally? You'll save the weight of the stuff sack and it will conform nicely to the shape of your pack instead of having a hard cylinder that you have to make fit.
ShoelessWanderer
12-02-2009, 22:57
Campmor 0* stuffs to 8x18, but have you considered not using a stuff sack and letting it fill up space more naturally? You'll save the weight of the stuff sack and it will conform nicely to the shape of your pack instead of having a hard cylinder that you have to make fit.
I've done that in the past. Works really well! Just through the sleeping bag in a big trash bag before doing it. Keeps the water out then.
Not as safe as using a 0dF rated bag, but you could extend yours with a
MYOG 1.25 tyvek bivy - 7-8 oz and you can glue it.
Probably good for 5dF
Carry a adv med emer bivy. Not the cheapo, get the 7 oz version. These
are good for 55-60dF by themselves. I modded mine by chnging the foot box to open up completely. Probably good for another 10dF
Med weight smartwool base layer.
Something like a thermawrap parka, and insul pants and maybe down booties.
All of that stuff is double use, and expensive.
It would probably be lighter and cheaper just to buy a 0dF bag or quilt.
Okie Dokie
12-03-2009, 00:18
Tuckahoe, above, has the simplest answer - a balacalava -it will extend the rating of any sleeping bag...it's simply a polar fleece head covering with an opening for the mouth and nose...most people think of it as a ski mask....it drapes fully down below your collar when worn regularly...it's the single most useful piece of layering gear you can take when winter hiking/camping...wear it while sleeping and as you're puttering around camp for breakfast...take off walking with it still on...as you warm up slip it down over your head and wear it around your neck...as you warm further take it off completely....on warmer nights stuff other clothing inside it and use it as a pillow...extremely versatile...wouldn't go winter camping without mine...I use a 30-degree bag/with balacalava and expedition-weight capilene top, midweight capilene bottomes, even when expected temps are down around zero, no problem...
It all adds up
small single person tent all closed up and steaked all the way down to the ground. Stuff roacks or leaves in the gaps between ground and vestabuel if need be.
good ground insulation, dry ground with leaves or pine needles under tent
balacalava
if you dont have a draft collar put one in even if its just with safety pins
I have taken my tyvek ground cloth and wrapped it around my sleeping pad so it goes under both sides and feet and is open at the head but you could also use anyt cloth or even those emergenty plastic blankets.
boil water in a bottle
I am a twisting side sleeper so laying a down jacket on top of the sleeping bag downt work for me but recently I put both feet in the arm and wrapped the boady of the jacket around my legs. the jacket went up to my waist.
generate your own body heat. jumping jacks are great for getting warm out of your sleeping bag but I do things in my bag like balance on my bum by lifting my head and feet an inch or so off the bround, when I get tired of that I lift my middle off the ground and make an arch. generates alot of hear IN YOUR BAG.
a clean bag lofts more so wash your bag.
have a big dinner so u have fuel to burn and make body heat.
or
duble bag it
or
REI attic sale. I got a 0* marmot down bag for $30
mister krabs
12-03-2009, 09:10
I've done that in the past. Works really well! Just through the sleeping bag in a big trash bag before doing it. Keeps the water out then.
Yes, I use a compactor bag as a pack liner inside a 1/2 length ccf pad rolled in a tube. All the soft stuff goes at the bottom, then anything else that I need dry. Smash it all down, then twist and fold over the top, then add ok to get wet stuff, then close the top of the pack and tighten the compression straps. This method keeps the bag dry and because there's no odd shaped packed sleeping bag, the bag fills the odd spaces, adds structure and reduces lumps in my frameless jam2.
ShelterLeopard
12-03-2009, 11:58
Campmor 0* stuffs to 8x18, but have you considered not using a stuff sack and letting it fill up space more naturally? You'll save the weight of the stuff sack and it will conform nicely to the shape of your pack instead of having a hard cylinder that you have to make fit.
I always pack my sleeping bag in my outdoor research dry bag/ compression sack because it is COMPLETELY waterproof. I am a huge fan of a dry bag. But it does sound nice, to have everything fit together nicely (and it'd be good for the loft of the bag, I assume)
wintercampers
12-14-2009, 11:46
Check out the post on WinterCampers.com re: sleeping warm (http://www.wintercampers.com/wintercamperscom-home/winter-camping-skills/sleeping-warm/). You might pick up some helpful ideas there.
Try a PolarWrap (http://www.polarwrap.com/default.aspx?pid=1&sid=36&show=) or Psolar (http://www.psolar.com/) balaclava.
I use the facemask-style and a warm beanie hat.
I find the sleeping bag draft collar and this device for pre-heating the inbreath air keeps me a lot warmer. This device also helps keeps down moisture in the sleeping bag and inside the tarp or tent.
Maybe consider using a 4-season sleeping pad like Pacific Outdoor Equipment Uber High Mountain sleeping pad, or, a combination of Volara ccf and the NeoAir which packs down smaller for example.
If still cold, I eat a Snickers bar to get the benefit of the "central heating" of digestion.
mkmangold
01-14-2010, 02:14
I carry a poncho liner that I have modified with a head hole for camp wear.
I folded it long ways and tied the sides together. I put this inside my Kelty 25 degree bag and it was okay to the teens. It didn'y work at all outside the bag. I couldn't keep it in place.
I like this idea.
But... our bed came with a zippered Tyvek liner that needs replacing. After washing it (yes, yuck) I'm going to try it as a liner. It's breathable so it should work either inside or outside of the bag.
The most I would do is use a vapor barrier, stuff clothes between me and my pad, and use something to block drafts and keep my head warmer like a Finbar hood. If I need to do anything more, then it's really time for a better bag.
Now if I was coming in from the cold and was fearing hypothermia, or just really hated having been frozen all day, I'd use those warmers to heat up faster. If I had them, I'd put a big warmer on my lower back, and hand warmers on my femoral artery and armpits.
rjridgely
01-14-2010, 13:03
I use an Army Surplus 3-layer gortex bivy / sleeping bag cover.
This is it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-USMC-MILITARY-GORETEX-BIVY-SLEEPING-BAG-COVER-BIVEY_W0QQitemZ390142585017QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_C SA_MC_Outerwear?hash=item5ad64f68b9
To extend my bag for colder parts of winter I hiker heavier than would be ideal, but it saves me from buying an expensive bag. I go heavier on wool and fleece clothing, and will wear that inside on extreme cold nights. Also, 2 blue foam pads underneath instead of 1. Haven't had much luck using a tent in winter. They are really helpful when it is stormy for getting organized, but I find I have to open it up to let dry air in and wet air out. So I bring that extra weight as clothing, and my 2 pound gortex bivy same as above only Canadian Olive Green, and maybe some wool blankets if its wicked cold. It becomes more of a trudge than a hike at some point. I might make a tobogan this year for that sort of think. For my fast trips on skis I stay close enough to civilization to bail out if something changes and it drops to -20F. I am good to 0F with my 20F without blankets.
Being able to seek shelter amongst trees makes a huge difference.
I would not want to be caught out in the open in 0F with what I have.
Being able to make lots of hot water without exposing yourself too much to the elements makes a big difference also. You can reheat the water in your hot water bottles, make more hot food and drink, dry your wet or frozens socks and mitts, that sort of thing. You should be able to do that with a small fire, but it also helps to have the means to make a larger fire if you need one. Being able to make water out of ice or snow can be very problematic. A good sleep system is important, but the other systems are important also. You have to practice both and not rely too much on one or the other.
When its really cold your breathing system is very important, especially if you are cold because you are breathing harder. I wear a fleece hood over a wool peruvian type hat and a knit wool neck gaitor knit from thick 100% wool yarn. The knit wool is very good for breathing through. It all still needs some work. I like going for a walk and camping when it is -20F, but sleeping in -20F and getting a decent nights sleep is very hard. It takes some practice. I takes more than just a -20F sleeping bag, but that would be a good start.
I've been thinking about extending my bag rating with a piece of loose synthetic insulation inside of my bivy, for use between the sleeping bag and the bivy, plus two blue foam pads instead of one underneath. The loose insulation can be packed by rolling it up with the bivy. I may need to taper the bivy somewhat. It would also be great if I could use it as a cape as well as a bivy. Could be a pack also, for that matter.
If I brought a wool blanket also, not sure where it might
- wear your gloves while in the bag.
- wear your hat while in the bag.
- have a fresh pair of heavy wool socks to sleep in.
- drape your jacket over the foot end of your sleeping bag.
- place unused clothing you still have under your mattress to give you more insulation from the ground.
Panzer
Plenty of good suggestions so far, all will help. In order of priority in my opinion (from someone who spent an entire winter pushing a optimistically rated 15* F bag to temps as low as -12* F):
- A very big number 1: Add extra bottom insulation. A cheap blue foam pad added to whatever you normally use will do wonders.
- Wear a hat.
- Moderate extra, DRY, clothing will help. Too much and you may compress your bag's insulation, defeating the purpose.
- Down booties inside the bag do wonders.
- isometric exercise inside the bag
- eat an energy snack
- Insulated down or synthetic jacket draped over your shoulders, outside the bag is more effective in my experience than worn inside the bag. Guess this may depend on how large your bag is. Too large of bag is less efficient than a more snug bag.
The Flatulator
01-15-2010, 14:02
I have done an extensive amount of winter camping over the years. I have always used vapor barriers in both my boots while hiking and in my sleeping bag at night. The vapor barriers retain heat and moisture and adds 10-15 degrees in warmth. Make sure you sleep in polypro to stay comfortable from the dampness. The vapor barriers work quite well and keep the sleeping bag dry for the next nights use (if you can keep all the ice crystals from snowing down in the morning when you move around in your tent!). I use a polypro liner, then a bread bag and then thick wool socks for the feet while hiking. You can do the same while sleeping. Don't forget the pee bottle. You will be drinking lots of warm fluids and will retain more water. Aren't many things worse than crawling out of a toasty bag at 2am! Make sure to put your boots in a stuff bag and put these at the bottom of your sleeping bag while you sleep. I guess frozen boots are worse than a 2am pee! Been there, done that and one learns the hard way sometimes.
The good thing about using a vapor barrier is that there's no penalty for covering your bag with a poncho or over covering to protect it from falling moisture.
I found that getting a high carb snack before going to bed reduces my need to pee in the middle of the night.
ShelterLeopard
01-15-2010, 14:19
I guess frozen boots are worse than a 2am pee! Been there, done that and one learns the hard way sometimes.
No way! Frozen boots aren't nearly as bad as crawling out of your warm, dry bag to pee, because when you pull on the boots, you're already resigned to being cold for the first twenty minutes of your hike. (Down booties, all the way- just ordered mine!)
The Flatulator
01-15-2010, 16:27
Take your boots. Make sure they are nice and soaked from the days perspiration (won't happen if you wear vapor barriers!) and/or from whatever moisture (rain, snow melt, postholing into a stream, etc) and then put them in your freezer overnight or, if you live in Maine or someplace else where it is a frozen wonderland, place them outside. Now, after your morning pee, go outside and put your boots on. You'll be lucky if you can even get them on and more than miserable when you start to try and walk. Pee bottles and vapor barriers are the only way to winter camp....I liked the idea of the poncho cover. I have used my space blanket to keep the bag covered as well......
Take your boots. Make sure they are nice and soaked from the days perspiration (won't happen if you wear vapor barriers!) and/or from whatever moisture (rain, snow melt, postholing into a stream, etc) and then put them in your freezer overnight or, if you live in Maine or someplace else where it is a frozen wonderland, place them outside. Now, after your morning pee, go outside and put your boots on. You'll be lucky if you can even get them on and more than miserable when you start to try and walk.
Solution:
Heat water at night, just before bed. Fill water bottles, place inside a wool sock, and place these, upside down, inside your boots, preferably holding them open. Take them into your tent with you. In the AM, your boots will be mostly still pliable (not entirely) and the water will be only partially frozen (ice at the bottom, not the neck). Nalgenes work well for this, but Gaterade bottles work ok. In the AM, put your boots on and lace them as snug as you can get them, start hiking. About 20 minutes into the day you will probably have to stop and re-snug your boots.
Campmor 0* stuffs to 8x18, but have you considered not using a stuff sack and letting it fill up space more naturally? You'll save the weight of the stuff sack and it will conform nicely to the shape of your pack instead of having a hard cylinder that you have to make fit.
I have thought of trying this but what has kept me from doing it is that it would make it harder to keep the bag dry in wet conditions.
The thing I like about the stuff sack is that it compresses my bag small enough to fit in a trash bag which then goes into the bottom of my pack with my clothes bag.
Of course I was paranoid about switching from synthetic to down too.... :)
Powder River
01-16-2010, 16:05
A few years back I went to a local outfitter and purchased one of his cold weather rental bags for a fraction of what it cost new. The bag was almost new but in reality it saw very little use because few people rent cold weather bags. It is a Kelty -15% bag and I have used it on nights as low as -10% with no problems.
Happy hunting
Mmmmm used sleeping bag. Kind of like used underwear, only warmer! :banana
It all adds up
small single person tent all closed up and steaked all the way down to the ground. Stuff roacks or leaves in the gaps between ground and vestabuel if need be.
good ground insulation, dry ground with leaves or pine needles under tent
balacalava
if you dont have a draft collar put one in even if its just with safety pins
I have taken my tyvek ground cloth and wrapped it around my sleeping pad so it goes under both sides and feet and is open at the head but you could also use anyt cloth or even those emergenty plastic blankets.
boil water in a bottle
I am a twisting side sleeper so laying a down jacket on top of the sleeping bag downt work for me but recently I put both feet in the arm and wrapped the boady of the jacket around my legs. the jacket went up to my waist.
generate your own body heat. jumping jacks are great for getting warm out of your sleeping bag but I do things in my bag like balance on my bum by lifting my head and feet an inch or so off the bround, when I get tired of that I lift my middle off the ground and make an arch. generates alot of hear IN YOUR BAG.
a clean bag lofts more so wash your bag.
have a big dinner so u have fuel to burn and make body heat.
or
duble bag it
or
REI attic sale. I got a 0* marmot down bag for $30
I would like to point out that if you seal the edge of your tent's fly all the way around the low end you will have tons of condensation - don't do it unless there's a raging blizzard outside and spindrift is getting into your inner tent - then only do it until the wind stops.
I almost hate to mention something I've known for years as the most effective way to warm up in your sleeping bag, and prevent your body's moisture from freezing into the down - VAPOR BARRIERS. They work like crazy. The only problem is that you cannot wear heavy clothing inside of them or the clothing, like you, will be damp.
Without spending much money, get two jumbo trash bags, cut the bottom out of one and tape it to the top of the other, making a long tube. Put on a light base layer, slide the plastic bags into your sleeping bag, and get into them. You will probably feel very damp, initially, until your metabolism slows down a bit. When you feel too damp, loosen the bags around your neck and pump the damp air out. If you manage to tolerate it, you will find that you sleep much warmer and your bag doesn't gain weight from your nighttime "insensible perspiration". This is mostly an emergency measure. In winter when I can't trust the weather, I bring a vapor barrier bag liner. Generally I hate liners because they complicate ingress and egress of the sleeping bag, but vapor barriers WORK! (but they also DO drive some folks NUTS)!
I mention vapor barriers somewhat frequently, but I haven't tried it yet. I'm waiting until I go for a killer hike that will make me fall asleep in anything. I figure if I do that a few times, I'll get over whatever discomforts sleeping that way may cause other people.
ShelterLeopard
01-18-2010, 12:32
Has anyone tried the Grizzly Bag Liner (supposedly +40 degrees)? Does it make you sweat? I was a little chilly on the shakedown this weekend, and need a little something extra. Any thoughts on the Grizzley Liner? What can I add to my bag that will keep me warm, but not make me sweat? (Have a 15 degree down Marmot) And I wear thick fleece jacket and pants to bed, over patagonia long underwear. Should I just add more layers, or get the liner?
Snowleopard
01-18-2010, 12:50
Has anyone tried the Grizzly Bag Liner (supposedly +40 degrees)? Does it make you sweat? I was a little chilly on the shakedown this weekend, and need a little something extra. Any thoughts on the Grizzley Liner? What can I add to my bag that will keep me warm, but not make me sweat? (Have a 15 degree down Marmot) And I wear thick fleece jacket and pants to bed, over patagonia long underwear. Should I just add more layers, or get the liner?
If you mean this liner: http://www.campmor.com/grizzly-40-degree-sleeping-bag-micro-liner.shtml?source=CI&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=40027
A 6.5 oz liner will not add much warmth. Nor will it keep you warm at 40F by itself. It will help keep your bag clean.
If you're going to carry extra weight to keep warm, carry more warm clothes. If you don't have a really warm hat you could consider something like this:
http://www2.smumn.edu/deptpages/~finnovations/order.html
This has been carefully designed to be as unstylish as possible.
OR, a Jardine kit: http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Bomber-Hat-Kit/index.htm
OR, a light down or climashield vest.
Wearing more clothes will only work if your bag is roomy enough to not compress the insulation much.
Didn't you just do a trial hike in NJ? How did your sleeping gear work out?
ShelterLeopard
01-18-2010, 13:10
It went pretty well- it was my first cold weather shakedown with my new sleeping gear. I wasn't too chilly. I put on my down sweater in the early am, and it helped a LOT, as did the down booties I was wearing. Maybe I'll just add another long underwear bottom layer. My hat helped too. And I need better mittens.
I have a roomy bag, so I may just add some more long underwear. I also kinda felt like my NeoAir wasn't quite the barrier I needed between myself and the ground, so I might add a 3/4 closed cell pad. (Probably my ridgerest that I don't use anymore will add the right amount)
And I though 40 degrees was a bit of a crazy claim. I wouldn't mind something to keep my bag clean though, don't really want to deal with washing a down bag in town. (Not too bad, just takes more effort)
So it's decided. Extra sleeping pad, mittens, and pants.
Thanks!
I have a roomy bag, so I may just add some more long underwear.
Thanks!
Good you're testing. One caution about adding "more" clothing. Pay attention to how tight things are getting. Too many layers of tight clothing and you run the risk of reducing circulation which will be counter-productive.
Have Fun!!!
I am also a cold sleeper and do most of my hiking off season I have several down bags from -20F to 40 F. I have my own ratings for these bags based on how they perform for me I take the bag with the rating that matches the coldest temp I anticipate and clothing to supplement the bag. It is not efficient to carry a bag that will keep you warm without clothes and then carry the clothes you will need on cold mornings
LIhikers
01-19-2010, 01:34
...... It sounds trite, but the best way to stay warm is to never get cold.......
Yep, it's easier to stay warm than to get warm.
ShelterLeopard
01-20-2010, 23:35
I think I'll just make my own bag liner- head to a fabric store tomorrow and see if I can find some fleece that doesn't have christmas patterns...
ShelterLeopard
01-20-2010, 23:38
Curious- has anyone ever used a thick sleeping bag liner on the outside of your bag? Or just a thinner liner inside? I can't decide what I should make. I'd rather sleep in just the long johns with a thick liner, rather than the long johns and full body fleece.
Really tired, probably not communicationg anything right now. Argh, I'll come back in the morning and rephrase this.
Snowleopard
01-21-2010, 15:10
Curious- has anyone ever used a thick sleeping bag liner on the outside of your bag?
Yes. The cheap way to do winter camping is to use two sleeping bags. The best system is the inner bag of down, the outer bag synthetic.
I was going to make a climashield overbag, probably just a bag with no zipper, commercial versions here:
http://www.mec.ca/Search/search.jsp?Ne=1000&Ntt=overbag&N=10+1421
Materials here http://thru-hiker.com/materials/insulation.php
Alternatively, you could make a quilt to go over your sleeping bag.
Instead, I just got a -20F bag on sale at EMS, now waiting for the cold...
Has anyone recommended sleeping in your rain gear? You already have it, and while it's not a perfect vapor barrier, it should still do a pretty good job.
ShelterLeopard
01-21-2010, 17:34
Yes. The cheap way to do winter camping is to use two sleeping bags. The best system is the inner bag of down, the outer bag synthetic.
I was going to make a climashield overbag, probably just a bag with no zipper, commercial versions here:
http://www.mec.ca/Search/search.jsp?Ne=1000&Ntt=overbag&N=10+1421
Materials here http://thru-hiker.com/materials/insulation.php
Alternatively, you could make a quilt to go over your sleeping bag.
Instead, I just got a -20F bag on sale at EMS, now waiting for the cold...
No, I mean have they used an actual sleeping bag liner (like sea to summit). I know about using a double bag approach, and don't like it. I thought about it though, and I think it'd be way impractical to put a liner on the outside of your bag.
Has anyone recommended sleeping in your rain gear? You already have it, and while it's not a perfect vapor barrier, it should still do a pretty good job.
If you're desperate... I'm not a fan of vapor barriers, they're only for really cold conditions.
I think I'll either buy a liner, or make one.
Snowleopard
01-21-2010, 17:52
No, I mean have they used an actual sleeping bag liner (like sea to summit). ...
I think I'll either buy a liner, or make one.
It's pretty easy to make a fleece liner. If you don't roll much in your sleep, thick fleece on top and thin nylon on the bottom might be almost as warm and lighter.
As you say, a commercial liner won't work on the outside.
ShelterLeopard
01-21-2010, 17:56
I think I'll just add an extra pair of long johns- my upper body is pretty warm, and pants'll do it.
I think that is a better solution then a liner. Or a lightweight down vest is also good, you can drap it over you in your bag, or put it on upside down by your feet, and zip it up, works great.
JustaTouron
01-22-2010, 11:12
To get blood flowing in your whole body, while already in your tent, is not difficult. Just pretend to be having a tempertantrum, while lying on your back, kick your feet, wave your arms around, in general, try to look as much like a lunatic or badly behaved child as possible.
Masterbating works too. :)
There is an even better method, but my better half's idea of roughing it is camping in an RV at a campground without a cable TV hookup and being stuck with only broadcast TV.