View Full Version : 650 vs 800 down
jbrecon2
12-03-2009, 13:49
hi all, i'm looking at a montbell ss hugger #2 for my thru beginning april 1. was looking for your thoughts on 650 vs 800 down, synthetic vs down. there is a HUGE price difference! $323.00 is the cheapest for 800 down, while the synthetic is $150. any ideas
XCskiNYC
12-03-2009, 14:04
The numbers 800 and 650 are the "fill power" of different types of down. The higher the number, the more cubic inches a given amount will fill. Basically, the higher the number the greater the insulative quality per a given weight of fill.
If comparing two down bags, it's useful to note the weight of fill. Comparing two bags of similar construction and overall dimensions, the bag with more ounces of down fill could reasonably be expected to be warmer (if the fill is the same fill power).
The higher price for down over synthetic reflects the material costs of the two kinds of bags. Down is an animal product, coming from the remains of slaughtered birds. The cost of raising the birds to the age/size where they are killed is relatively high. Synthetic is the byproduct of petroleum which is now at a historically low price.
Hikers are willing to pay the higher prices for down bags because they are light, compress well, and have a wider comfort range than synthetic bags (when you sweat in a typical down bag the down carries away the moisture faster than would a synthetic bag).
jbrecon2
12-03-2009, 14:18
wow that was extremely informative. thank you
As noted in another thread, LL Bean is currently selling an 850 fill down jacket for $150. A real bargain.
sparky2000
12-03-2009, 14:47
I have a stretch mont bell that I'll pass cheat. e-mail me.
skinewmexico
12-03-2009, 15:10
Losing ounces is expensive. And the thing to remember about synthetic bags is that after being compressed several times over the course of a year, they lose their temp rating. A quality down bag, taken care of properly, will still be a (for example) 20 degree bag after 10 years. A 20 degree synthetic will probably be a 50 degree bag after a couple of years.
I went through the same decision making process as you very recently. I originally ordered the MontBell Burrow bag 15 deg. as I thought it would be quality at a lesser $ than down. (also considered the MH ultralamina but didn't like the zipper setup). However it was extremely difficult to get into my pack's sleeping bag compartment so I bit the bullet and ordered a Marmot with 800 down (Pinnacle model). Got it on sale for 20% less than your figure. It packs well and I was amazed at how warm it was. Just did 3 days/ 2 nights, the first night it rained and was in the 40's and I didn't have it fully zipped. The 2nd night it got into the upper 20's and I was warm in shorts and long poly tshirt. This was my first investment into a higher end bag (I was skeptical about the price/value thing)and it was money well spent.Good luck.
you should seriously investigate this lead:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=26477
I would suggest looking at the REI outlet section of their website. They currently have men's and women's down bags for about 160$ that are really light.
http://www.rei.com/outlet/product/780903
jbrecon2
12-04-2009, 09:04
thank you all. i guess if i had looked more closely i would have easily noticed the difference in wieght. So after a reading a million reviews i really think i'm going to go with the montbell super stretch 800 down. now the only question is what number??? i'm leaving in late march early april. i'm leaning toward the #2. any input?
Kerosene
12-04-2009, 09:35
The Montbell Super Stretch #2-800 (http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=28&p_id=1121726) is listed as a 25-degree bag, which will be borderline for early April, and warm for mid-summer nights.
In colder weather, just be prepared to augment the bag with sufficient clothing (and a hat!). You could also add a silk liner, which adds perhaps another 5 degrees. On warmer nights, the best you can do is unzip the bag or use the liner to cut the chill. If money were no object, then I would use a 15- or 20-degree bag through Pearisburg, swap out to a 35-degree bag through Hanover, and then go back to the cold-weather bag.
I have the ulss #2 and it is very conservatively rated at 25, at least for me. I have slept in it at 10 degrees, with down vest and light down jacket in bag for extra insulation. If you are hiking with insulated clothes at the beginning of your hike, I would say this would be plenty of bag, given your late march start date. If you are 6' or taller be sure to get the long model. I love mine.
You can swap out if you have a much lighter bag for the hotter months.
I don't understand why you have to swap out for another bag when it gets warm? As long as you have a full zip bag, why not just unzip it and use as a quilt where its much easier to regulate temp. Is it because the summers on a thru are mostly spent at lower elevation where there is not much risk of low temps, so that it makes it worthwhile to reduce the bulk and weight to a minimum? I would think a decent liner would suffice when its real warm, and of course is useful when its really cold, too.
Scope,
You certainly don't have to swap out a bag. I would bet most don't, but if I was going to thru hike, especially the AT, and had the cash to lay out on two bags, I would think about it. My warm bag weighs 2#5 ounces, and I can get a high quality 30 ish bag that would weigh about a pound, and be much smaller as well. I use mine quilt style and it works fine, but for carrying every day, for couple of months, I would think hard about changing out.
Scope,
You certainly don't have to swap out a bag. I would bet most don't, but if I was going to thru hike, especially the AT, and had the cash to lay out on two bags, I would think about it. My warm bag weighs 2#5 ounces, and I can get a high quality 30 ish bag that would weigh about a pound, and be much smaller as well. I use mine quilt style and it works fine, but for carrying every day, for couple of months, I would think hard about changing out.
I carried a down sleeping bag liner (estimated rating 45 degrees F) the whole distance. But I didn't start until April 15 at Springer, and augmented the bag with a down jacket and insulated long johns for the first and last months. I was marginally chilly some nights. But overall it was an acceptable combination.
Weary
Treefingers
12-07-2009, 16:07
A down's fill power indicates how many cubic inches is occupied by 1 oz. of down.....So 650 fill down occupies 650 cubic inches and so on. This translated to a larger efficiency and a bigger loft. When comparing sleeping bags you want to look at how many ounces of down is in the bag and compare that along with the loft... Even though high fill power down is very expensive, it is quite resilient and will last your for many many years if taken care of ie. keeping clean and stored lofted under a bed or something. I never have a problem keeping my sleeping bag dry so down is my first choice. Good luck and i hope you stay warm!
hikingshoes
12-07-2009, 16:19
I just order my 650 goose down jacket from LLBean for 69.00dollars.if you have a code use it,if not its goingt o be 77.00.See if this code works.CODE:3017105
note:if the code doesnt work google llbean coupon and it will give you a list.hope this helps.Charles:)
As noted in another thread, LL Bean is currently selling an 850 fill down jacket for $150. A real bargain.
I don't understand why you have to swap out for another bag when it gets warm? As long as you have a full zip bag, why not just unzip it and use as a quilt where its much easier to regulate temp. Is it because the summers on a thru are mostly spent at lower elevation where there is not much risk of low temps, so that it makes it worthwhile to reduce the bulk and weight to a minimum? I would think a decent liner would suffice when its real warm, and of course is useful when its really cold, too.
Experience my friend. May times during the summer I just want a little something over me. Even a fully unzipped 20 degree bag just covering part of me was too much. So for me, a summer bag was a wise investment.
KarmaGurl
12-09-2009, 05:20
Just a note- REI is now using the EURO rating for their bags, so their older style bags may not be temp accurate. I found this out, talking to an REI rep. The newer bags are much truer to say, what Marmot lists as their temp ratings. The Euro rated bags also have a comfort rating for both Men and Women, so pay attention. :) the words "Comfort Zone" generally applies to we gals.