PDA

View Full Version : ultra light blasphemy



jbrecon2
12-04-2009, 09:56
So I needed to put this thread here and not on the ultralight forum as not to be butchered by those who think you need not be discussing something that weighs one ounce more than absolutely essential on the ultralight forum. Here is the debate. I am planning my 2010 Thru hike! I am caught up in that place where I can spend 7-8 hours looking at a ....ummmm......pot. And thats just one sitting! The people at REI must think I'm nuts because I am in there at least once or twice a week for hours at a time as if their inventory will suddenly change. I bought a REI .9 titanium Ti but returned it because it didnt fit my stove and cannister, and quite honestly i just didnt like it all that much. I than bought a pinnacle soloist, which is kind of nice but i have not used it yet. I like that its a little wider than a jet boil but not as wide as a pot. It's a little on the heavier side (10.3 ounces) as compared to some of the titanium stuff out there like the snow peak pots. I own a pocket rocket, which will not fit in with the 8 gram cannister, so I am considering another stove if I go with the pinnacle. Looking for a any suggestions or comments on this subject. I am by no means a microgram weany, but I am trying to cut down weight as much as possible as I am planning on using a ULA catalyst and would like something in the 30 pound range. Is this more than I need? I have used the jetboil in the past and did find it very nice but it does become a little annoying to eat out of. Also, i'm thinking if I want to boil water for hot drinks it may have a funny food taste if i eat directly out of my pot. I have an alcohol stove with windscreen but to be honest I really dont like it all that much. Does anyone carry a collapsible bowl or something for this reason? Suggestions? Input from thru hiking experience?

Lyle
12-04-2009, 11:06
Personally, I've been very happy with the AntiGravity "Mama's Kitchen" that I got years ago. Included the AntiGravity stove (great), priming ring, their 3-cup (annodized aluminum) pot/lid, alcohol measuring cup, pot lifter, wind screen, pot cozy, and various other odds and ends (most of which I discarded). The entire weight is around 8 oz. The system works very well for one person.

A 4oz MSR cannister will fit inside the pot if you want to go that route. Not sure if the Pocket Rocket would also fit, my Coleman F1 Ultralight doesn't quite fit inside with the lid on.

They may not sell this exact package any more, but they still carry all of the major components of it. They also have many other pots available.

bigcranky
12-04-2009, 11:30
On a thru hike you won't notice any "funny taste" in your pot/mug when you make a hot drink, I promise. You'll scarf down your food, then make tea and and scrape out all the food bits and drink them. Every calorie is delightful.

Cutting an ounce or two on everything adds up to pounds pretty quickly, so it's often worthwhile. With pots, for example, you can do everything you need with a 3-5 ounce 700-900ml pot, using a foil lid, and just eat/drink right out of it. An aluminum version is cheap, but a Ti version isn't really that expensive.

For a longer solo hike, I take a Snow Peak 900 mug, which is just big enough that I can cook a Liptons meal in it, but not too big to drink my morning coffee. It holds the larger MSR IsoPro fuel canister and my stove.

trippclark
12-04-2009, 11:48
Personally, I've been very happy with the AntiGravity "Mama's Kitchen" that I got years ago. Included the AntiGravity stove (great), priming ring, their 3-cup (annodized aluminum) pot/lid, alcohol measuring cup, pot lifter, wind screen, pot cozy, and various other odds and ends (most of which I discarded). The entire weight is around 8 oz. The system works very well for one person.

A 4oz MSR cannister will fit inside the pot if you want to go that route. Not sure if the Pocket Rocket would also fit, my Coleman F1 Ultralight doesn't quite fit inside with the lid on.

They may not sell this exact package any more, but they still carry all of the major components of it. They also have many other pots available.

I'll cast another "vote" for the kits that AntiGravity Gear offers. I have been using the Caldera Kitchen found at http://www.antigravitygear.com/products.php?cat=86 and have been very pleased.

flemdawg1
12-04-2009, 12:10
Get out of REi and go to a thrift store that has lots of kitchen stuff. After months of agonizing how to get lighter than my 7oz Trek 1400, and many visits to gear stores and online research. I went to the local junky thrift store. and found a nice wide bottom aluminum pot w/ lid that holds 3.5 cups and weighs 4oz (w/lid). And it cost 50 cents.

Johnny Thunder
12-04-2009, 12:12
If you haven't bought the pack yet you should assemble the gear kit first. Most people who thru with Catalysts seem to buy them before the hike while most who switch to a ULA pack buy a Circuit.

I realize that this is purely annecdotal and someone will probably jump on this....but, if you're using a down bag and other lightweight gear the catalyst is often too much pack.

With regards to your collapsable bowl question: My girlfriend and I use my 2 liter ti pot and a foldable origaso bowl (discontinued). I order a half dozen of them from REI last year when they were 97 cents. Not sure where you'd get them now. It doubles as our cutting board and funnel.

Alligator
12-04-2009, 12:25
There's a similar product to that Johnny, not sure if it is the same company, but the design is the same. (http://www.rei.com/product/784593) I got one of the cups for .97 myself in that clearance. I use the bowls and cups when out with the family, otherwise I use ti sierra cup for hot drinks.

Skidsteer has done a lot of testing of lightweight bowls and combo kits (usually alcohol stoves though it seems).

Johnny Thunder
12-04-2009, 12:39
those are almost identical...mine close using clever folds and those have snaps or magnets. cool...good to know.

JohnnyB
12-04-2009, 12:55
>>>So I needed to put this thread here and not on the ultralight forum<<<

Good decision, since it appears you're not interested in hiking ultralight anyway.

As far as stove/pot choices... Do you know how you will be using your system yet? Do you intend only to prepare meals that need to be rehydrated, or do you require the ability to simmer and actually cook?

Once you nail that down, you can get around to the business of finding the lightest solution that works for you and is in your price range.

Captn
12-04-2009, 14:15
>>>So I needed to put this thread here and not on the ultralight forum<<<

Good decision, since it appears you're not interested in hiking ultralight anyway.

As far as stove/pot choices... Do you know how you will be using your system yet? Do you intend only to prepare meals that need to be rehydrated, or do you require the ability to simmer and actually cook?

Once you nail that down, you can get around to the business of finding the lightest solution that works for you and is in your price range.

Cut the top out of a Hinnie can ..... 1 ounce is hard to beat.

JohnnyB
12-04-2009, 14:34
Cut the top out of a Hinnie can ..... 1 ounce is hard to beat.

Yeah, I personally use a caldera system with a Foster's keg. But that's really only good if you're primarily just using your stove to boil water. Plus I imagine it has some limitations on a thru hike regarding durability.

(I use the caddy too which protects the entire set-up and acts as a bowl and cup. The entire thing weighs 7.35oz and includes stove, windscreen, pot, bowl, and cup. It's not the lightest possible system but for my needs it's the best combination of weight, durability, and function.)

OP wasn't necessarily interested in the lightest possible option though. That's why I think he needs to specify how he intends to use it, and his priorities (i.e. - weight vs. durability vs. cost, etc.) before he can get any meaningful feedback. Otherwise everybody is just going to recommend their own favorite system which may or may not be his best choice.

jbrecon2
12-04-2009, 14:53
hey johny thanks for the info on that. I e-mailed Brian at Ula to get his thoughts. good looking out

toenail
12-04-2009, 16:05
A small pot,approx. 1 liter, that can cook lipton meals is perfect. It should also be able to nest a cup, spoon, your stove, and cleaning pad. This keeps your kitchen together, and makes for a quick getaway from the shelter in the morning.

skinewmexico
12-04-2009, 16:15
It's just walking. Just buy something and use it, and replace it when you find something better. Don't fall victim to paralysis by analysis.

Wags
12-05-2009, 01:12
i'd really look hard into freezer bag cooking. no dishes!!!!

snaplok
12-05-2009, 02:27
It's just walking. Just buy something and use it, and replace it when you find something better. Don't fall victim to paralysis by analysis.

Have to agree with this. I still have a few different cooking setups ranging from my first purchase, a GSI covered wok for real cooking to my latest, a Snow Peak 600 Ti cup for boiling water for coffee AND food.

Sometimes I throw caution to the wind, and take the wok and the 600. :D

tuswm
12-06-2009, 02:47
the 8 oz canister n pocket rocket fit in the soloist if u do it correctly.

Tinker
12-07-2009, 00:40
I bought a 700 ml cup thinking that I'd use it for shorter hikes where big volume meals weren't necessary. I never use it. Wide pots are much more efficient at diffusing the heat from a stove burner than a narrow cup and the cup isn't really that much lighter than my 1.3 L Evernew ti pot with the handle removed. I bring the small pot from my Snow Peak set (the cheap version) for a cup. Add a spoon and I'm all set.
The wide bottom is even more important when using an alcohol stove as the flames tend to spread across the bottom of the cooking container and don't reach their peak heat until they're licking up the sides.
Trying to save space by using a small pot is an illusion mostly. You can use most of the space in a larger cookset by stuffing it with some of your food items.

jrwiesz
12-07-2009, 05:52
I've discussed this in a previous thread here on WB.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=910115#poststop

I used this mug in conjunction with my Jetboil PCS this season for my days in Isle Royale National Park. It worked great, my knit cap worked perfect as a cozy. I do see that REI no longer carries them, or they are unavailable online. Perhaps they[GSI] have discontinued them? If that is the case, I'm sure something simular can be found. I use my Jetboil PCS to boil water only, no clean-up.

I will agree with "bigcranky", in that, after a very short period of hiking, "funny taste" will be of no concern. "Dirt" tastes pretty good after a day of hiking.:D

You'll most likely get 100 different remedies from a 100 different replies; I'll just state that this worked for me. You'll just have to experiment to see what works for you.:sun

jbrecon2
12-13-2009, 15:57
thanks everyone. i got a snowpeak 700 and giga stove from REI. i like both, but wonder if the 700 will be big enough for meals and a hot drink in one boil. i tried it out and seemed to do the trick. anyone with this mug have any input? the thing is I'm going with an light pack (ula circuit or smd starlight) and as many of you have pointed out, am trying to go light with everything else as well.

bigcranky
12-13-2009, 19:08
I use a 700 for a lot of solo hiking. I boil 2 cups of water and make dinner freezer bag style, then boil two more cups and make a hot drink, and drink it right out of the pot. Everything is usually ready at the same time.

verber
01-02-2010, 02:02
thanks everyone. i got a snowpeak 700 and giga stove from REI. i like both, but wonder if the 700 will be big enough for meals and a hot drink in one boil.

I could boil enough for a full meal (cous cous, ramon, etc) and a cup of tea (~7oz) without a problem. I mostly used the REI/Evernew .9 pot because it used around 30% less fuel that the Snowpeak 700 because it has a large bottom. BTW: The REI/Evernew .9 is large enough for a small canister and the snowpeak gigapower if you don't bring the hard plastic case and pack carefully.

This fall I switched to a MLD 850 + UL Caldera Cone and have been very happy.

--Mark

Connie
01-07-2010, 08:42
For a long time, I had a 1.3 liter pot.

Then, 0.9 L.

Now, I have got a Vargo 750 ml Sierra Cup "pot" and Zelph Stove Works Super Stove alcohol stove and white gas stove and windscreen. I like the taper of this "pot" for getting all the heat from the flame I can for "fast boil" hot water for a Freezer Bag Cooking hot meal.

I use my Snow Peak Titanium Backpacker's Cup for a hot drink.

I can easily clean up either one.

I still have my 25.4 oz Foster's can "pot" and Caldera Cone that provides hot water for a Freezer Bag hot meal and a hot drink.

It is just that I wanted a different form factor for heating and a different profile in my backpack.

I had looked at that Snow Peak Trek 700 for a long time. I think it is small for my meal preparation style, but not for the amount of food I consume. For me, I think I would need a bowl to use it, in order to have my hot meal and my hot drink together. Either that, or "freezer bag" the new stand upright Zip Lock freezer bags and eat from the freezer bag I had packed the food.

I am just not that dedicated to small and lightweight.

I do not want to carry, or clean, a bowl or even a silicone "squishy" bowl.

I think the food preparation and your own "culinary style" will provide your answer.

I do like 700-750 ml capacity for a reasonably quick hot meal.

. . .

Bearpaw
01-07-2010, 10:52
One month or so into a thru-hike, you honestly won't care all that much about your gear. There's a reason for that. Just remember, the best gear is the stuff that gets you out there. Stop obsessing over gear.

Second, I've used the 1.3 and .9 ti pots you mention, I scored the GSI Pinnacle Dualist for free, and I've also used the Snow Peak 700 Ti mug.

Some thoughts. The 1.3 L ti pot is excellent with holding large cannisters or my Whisperlight stove. It goes out with me a lot when I am in cold weather or hiking with my wife. I often carry a ti skillet instead of the lid and get excellent service from the package.

The .9 L ti pot is my champion for small cannisters and when I am going solo. It handles pretty much any cooking you'll likely throw at it.

The Snow Peak 700 is kind of undersized for the hunger you'll likely experience later in a thru-hike. ALSO, it wastes fuel if you're using a cannister stove. Even turning the flow down, a decent amount of flame licks around the narrow bottom. I don't care for this. HOWEVER, it is a champion pot for cooking with esbit tabs. I use a foil windscreen and a ti wing esbit stove from BPL.

The GSI set was something I would not have considered had I not gotten it for free. BUT, I love the bowls that come with it, and I'm fairly partial to the strainer lid as well. I even used the bowl to prime my cranky cannister on a cold morning with some warm water last month.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/bearpawat99/Pinhoti%20Trail%2012%2009/022a.jpg

It worked great.

So some thoughts. If you already have a jetboil, USE it. At least early on. You'll likely find you go with simple boil meals and it will be fine for your needs. If you don't return the GSI soloist, take the bowl with you. It is useful and makes an excellent warming tank for your small cannister on a cold morning.

The other option is stick with your Pocket Rocket or Gigapower and the .9L ti pot. Great combination, especially as the weather warms up. I've used it on many long hikes.

As for some of the more typical UL options, they're not all that practical for a thru-hike.

Freezer-bag cooking is a great luxury which I sometimes happily use on shorter trips of a few days to even a few weeks, but the logistics over a 6-month hike are fairly staggering. You're either spending many days preparing them before your hike and become a slave to maildrops, or you kill town stop time prepping them. Neither is a great option.

I'm a huge fan of esbit on my shorter LD hikes as well. BUT, again, getting enough of them can be an issue on a truly long hike.

Stick with either a cannister or alky and roll on up the trail. Carry a 1-pint Nalgene for hot drinks.

And as for MY cookset on my 1999 thru-hike? A monster orange Cascade Designs steel potset that contained two nesting pots, about 1.7 L for the big one and half that for the small one. I sent the small one home and carried the big one the rest of the way. It had to be at least 12 ounces.

Lesson learned? The best gear is the gear that gets you out there. Obsessing over gear is what you do when you need some fix to help you cope with the fact that you're NOT getting out there. I was stuck with that lifestyle during the school year for a long time (as evidenced by all the crap I've collected).

But the reality is that conditioning will trump the extra ounce or two after the first few hundred miles. Now go hike.

jbrecon2
01-08-2010, 00:12
Thanks bearpaw. I've read alot of your posts and have a great deal of respect for you and your advice offered. I took a two hour drive up to Delaware water gap and hiked to sunfish pond yesterday. I just wanted to be on the trail again. It's funny how little you care about what is in your pack as you hike along next to a gentle stream with waterfalls. I wasn't thinking "boy I'm glad I got my whiteblaze fix last night, or boy I can't wait to stop for a break and layer up with my vest". I was simply hiking. I've done my research, I have confidence in my ability to adapt and improvise. I was thrilled when I overheard a couple of nurses I work with talking about our manager having to find a nurse to replace John because he's going on his "stupid walk". My girlfriend and friends see this as something taking me away from them. I tell them this is something that's going to give them the best and happiest John they ever met. My days are spent daydreaming about starry nights, annoying climbs and the rewards found at the top of them. In otherwords, I got the gear, I got the dream, and I got a 2200 mile trail to live it on. I'm going hiking.

Mags
01-08-2010, 01:28
One month or so into a thru-hike, you honestly won't care all that much about your gear. There's a reason for that. Just remember, the best gear is the stuff that gets you out there. Stop obsessing over gear.




This! Preach it!

While we (mostly) all agree it is good to go as light as comfortable for your personal safety, fun and comfort levels...obsessing which Titanium Whatchamahoosey is best when they are not that functionally different is..well, pointless. :)

I posted this on PCT-L the other day:

I'll sum it up again THERE IS NO BEST GEAR. Only what is best for you, your situation, hiking style etc.

FINALLY: Remember folks, it is just a stove. While gear is important, it is the LEAST important part of hiking.
The top of Mt .Whitney is gonna look pretty damn cool no matter what you used to make your "Generic Glop of Noodles and
Things" the night before. Go out, hike, and enjoy yourselves. The internet "discussions" are just gear wankery until we
all get outside. ;)




And as for MY cookset on my 1999 thru-hike? A monster orange Cascade Designs steel potset that contained two nesting pots, about 1.7 L for the

I used the MSR Alpine stainless steel cookset. (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___80086).with the lid! And a Whisperlite! :O Back then, I thought I needed a "real" cook set for backpacking.

I still have it. It is in my permanent plastic bin I always have in the back of the truck in the camper shell (along with a mini-propane stove, z-rest, sleeping bag and other assorted goodies all in one convenient spot). It's the poor man's RV. ;)


When I use a stove now..it is $4 pot with lid from the thrifter. :)