View Full Version : Are sleeping pads really NECESSARY?
EarlyStarter
12-06-2009, 17:31
I'm trying to go as minimalist and lightweight as possible. I have a sleeping bag rated at -10. On top of that I have a bivy sack that takes off another 10 to 15. People always say you want a sleeping pad to get a comfortable rest and protect yourself from the cold ground at night, and I understand the latter is important, but couldn't I just lay out some of my clothes in my bag to act as extra insulation rather than buy an often overpriced pad? Suggestions for alternatives would be very appreciated.
Skidsteer
12-06-2009, 17:40
I'm trying to go as minimalist and lightweight as possible. I have a sleeping bag rated at -10. On top of that I have a bivy sack that takes off another 10 to 15. People always say you want a sleeping pad to get a comfortable rest and protect yourself from the cold ground at night, and I understand the latter is important, but couldn't I just lay out some of my clothes in my bag to act as extra insulation rather than buy an often overpriced pad? Suggestions for alternatives would be very appreciated.
You can answer your own question if you like.
Set up in your yard on a twenty degree night and see if you get cold.
Jack Tarlin
12-06-2009, 17:41
Sleeping pads supply comfort as well as insulation, and you simply won't get much comfort from spreading out a thin layer of tee shirts and socks or whatever else you've got for "extra" clothing.
Can you get by without a sleeping pad?
Sure you can. But most folks want the extra comfort one provides.
You're going to be spending close to a third of your trip in your tent or tarp lying down, i.e 8 hours a day, and for most of this time, you're gonna be beat up and really tired.
For most folks, it's worth it to bring along a pad of some sort that makes this down time a bit more enjoyable.
MintakaCat
12-06-2009, 17:46
Depends on where and when.
EarlyStarter
12-06-2009, 17:49
Good info. so far. Thanks. Is there anybody out there who actually did their hike without a pad, with no major problems?
johnnybgood
12-06-2009, 17:50
Get a 3/4 pad and compromise on .weight and add comfort/insulation.
Clothes and whatever is in your sleeping bag keep you warm by trapping air. That is why the warm jackets are (usually) puffy. If you lay on these things you drastically decease their ability to trap warmth. Given that you have a -10 bag I don't think that warmth is ever going to be a problem on the AT, unless you are starting in winter in the north. A pad is also going to make it more comfortable to sleep, which is probably worth the price and weight.
Since your trying to go lightweight you might want to look into another bag. There is no real reason to have a -10 bag on the AT. Or, if you don't have the money for a new bag than you might want to think about why you are bringing your bivy; probably not going to need it on account of warmth.
EarlyStarter
12-06-2009, 17:55
I'm actually using the bivy as my shelter, along with a tarp for obvious reasons. I don't know if that matters.
Good info. so far. Thanks. Is there anybody out there who actually did their hike without a pad, with no major problems?
I did the first half of a SOBO without a pad to save weight.
Like others in their early 20's I could sleep on cement without any problems. Even the old "baseball bat" floors of the older shelters could not keep me from slumber. Regular shelter floors were most comfortable- never used extra clothes for padding, not that I had many anyway.
Somewhere south of PA I got a closed cell pad for insulation and thought it worthwhile for that purpose.
white_russian
12-06-2009, 18:11
http://www.foambymail.com/Volara.html
its cheap, light and you can cut it to whatever size you need.
Darwin again
12-06-2009, 18:16
For me "comfort = insulation" in cold weather.
I wouldn't think of walking without my Ridgerest closed cell pad.
In summer, I use one cut to the length of from just above my shoulders to about a hand width below my buttocks as I lie on the ground.
In winter, I use full length.
It's worth it and that's with a base pack weight of around 26 pounds in winter and about 18 pounds in summer.
It's worth the minimal weight to me.
Okie Dokie
12-06-2009, 18:20
I'd recommend a 30-degree bag and a 3/4 length pad...think you'll find that a comfortable night's sleep is worth the extra pound (if it's indeed an extra pound)...my bag and Thermarest came in at slightly under 3 pounds...Marmot Nighthawk goose down with Gore-Tex outer shell...if you're young comfort may not be that high a priority...when I was in my early 20's I could sleep on a pile of logging chains and not really care...
Toolshed
12-06-2009, 18:28
....but couldn't I just lay out some of my clothes in my bag to act as extra insulation rather than buy an often overpriced pad? ....
Overpriced Pad??? Betcha that if you woke up at 11:19PM shivering on a 0 degree night, that by 2AM, that $70 doesn't seem like a bad investment. :sun
BTW, Every thermarest I have is now over 12 years old, with the oldest going on close to 20. For what I paid (around $40 back then) I amortize it at $2/year - Plenty cheap for protection.
BTW, you don't have to go for self-inflators. Get a couple wally blue foam ensolites for $5.99 each and you will be plenty warm. :)
paintplongo
12-06-2009, 18:43
I do not recommend sleeping without a sleeping pad with any weather under 50 degrees. The insulation in your bag compresses on the underside of it and therefore loses its insulating property. You will get cold without a pad even if it isn't below freezing.
max patch
12-06-2009, 18:54
Good info. so far. Thanks. Is there anybody out there who actually did their hike without a pad, with no major problems?
I mailed my pad a couple weeks ahead when I was in VA. And I was glad when I caught up to it.
I didn't need or use a pad when 3 season hiking thru my late 20s. Once I reached that age a pad was well worth the weight and expense. A pad is always necessary in the winter.
Rain Man
12-06-2009, 18:55
You can answer your own question if you like.
Set up in your yard on a twenty degree night and see if you get cold.
But not the soft lawn. The driveway. After a cloudy day when it hasn't had a chance to soak up any warmth from sunshine.
Rain:sunMan
.
Tipi Walter
12-06-2009, 18:59
You can answer your own question if you like.
Set up in your yard on a twenty degree night and see if you get cold.
I agree totally. What are yards and decks for? Bedroll camping. I just got back from a long trip at around 5,000 feet and last night we woke up to around 7F in ice and snow. Here's the thing, the three others from Chattanooga had to bail because one of their sleeping pads(a woman's Prolite 3)was too thin and too cold. The reason to bring it? To save weight. Same old story.
Okie Dokie
12-06-2009, 19:12
Sectioned the Smokies one winter with an old friend from college who told us before the hike that he had "tested" his questionalbe looking bag by sleeping in his room with the windows open !...froze his rear end off and had his father pick him up halfway through the Smokies...don't test a bag in town...go out in the woods on a 15 degree night and lie down directly on the ground without a pad, tent, fire, anything...then you'll know what you've got...
When I was a kid I never carried a pad and had some Idea that I was a tough guy and did not need no stinking pad. But we never camped in the winter. Now days I use one. Just last month I was camping right next to a river in a valley. It got real cold, I am guessing about 20degs. The difference in temperature from the pad to the bottom of my tent without the pad was amazing. I use a 40 degree down bag, and on that night that pad saved me. Now I will never hike in the winter without a full length pad. I prefer the closed cell over the inflatable. In the summer I may go for a cut down pad just for my torso as others have described.
ditto on some previous posts: set up outside, in cold, nasty weather, and see if you like it. For most of us, a good night's sleep is worth a few ounces, quite a few in fact
buff_jeff
12-06-2009, 19:54
For over half the AT I didn't have one and I did fine. I think in the winter they are more of a "necessity," but otherwise they are by no means an essential piece of gear. Choice is yours, really.
Chance09
12-06-2009, 20:02
There are plenty of minimalist pads that not expensive, gossamer gear pads come to mind. if you want to be minimalist the torso pad should do just fine and 3 oz or so isn't bad for the comfort and warmth. I spent about a month hiking with a guy who had no pad this summer and waking up in the morning and looking over at him shivering in the fetal position didn't look like much fun. Plus with bag ratings that low, what if you get hot? Might it not be a better idea to get a warmer bag and use a pad for less weight?
When I was young I went without a pad. The older I get the more weight I am willing to carry for a good night's sleep. I think I'm going to haul around a camprest on my section this year... :)
When I was young I went without a pad. The older I get the more weight I am willing to carry for a good night's sleep. I think I'm going to haul around a camprest on my section this year... :)
I'd be willing to bet that the average age of hammockers (like me at 54) is considerably older than the average age of the general hiker population. Old people get cranky.
Kerosene
12-06-2009, 21:31
Old people get cranky.Not cranky, just a lot more sensitive.
Tipi Walter
12-06-2009, 22:49
When I was young I went without a pad. The older I get the more weight I am willing to carry for a good night's sleep. I think I'm going to haul around a camprest on my section this year... :)
It's what I carry for my winter trips, except it's not called camprest anymore, it's Base Camp. Comes in at 3.10lbs for the large(25x77x2)and with a 6.2 R-value. No problemo as far as carrying. Tain't as bulky as the combo pads people like to take: two Ridgerests, a Prolite with a Ridgerest, etc.
You need some good insulation under you, at least a ccf pad.The ground is cooler than your body temperature. A compressed bag(part you are laying on)will provide litte insulation. The ground you are on will basically be absorbing your body heat and continue pulling the heat away.
Mike
Treefingers
12-07-2009, 15:29
I've found that even in the early summer when temps are only dropping into the 50's at night that the ground or shelter floor will zap the heat from you. Alot of people believe that when you sleep in a sleeping bag and compress the insulation on the bottom of your bag that it defeats the insulating properties of the loft. I am a believer of this theory and some bag manufacturers like Big Agnes make their whole line of sleeping bags without insulation on the bottom. My suggestion would be to bring a lighter weight sleeping bag and a light foam mat if you want to cut weight.
Darwin again
12-07-2009, 15:42
I do not recommend sleeping without a sleeping pad with any weather under 50 degrees. The insulation in your bag compresses on the underside of it and therefore loses its insulating property. You will get cold without a pad even if it isn't below freezing.
I agree with this completely.
You will be amazed at how much body heat the ground will suck right out of you. I'd go further with that thought in terms of the additional calories -- which means food weight that you'll need to carry -- you'll need to eat to keep your body warm through nights sleeping on the bare ground.
Plus, most sleeping bags are built with much of the insulation on the top side and even if you had a well-insulated bottom panel on your down bag, the down would soon compress and lose its insulating ability.
Sleep warmer and carry less food, seems to me the pad is a great idea and well worth it. My Ridgerest 3/4 length weighs 10.9 ounces.
They're not too expensive, the closed-cell type of Ridgerest.
Air mattresses aren't so good in the cold and they can get holed.
my first backpacking experience was the approach trail to springer. i slept on the shelter floor with just my sleepingbag and no pad. i felt like i had been in a car crash the next morning! GET A PAD! :)
I love my Big Agnes inflatable. It's not much to carry, and is so comfy.
I love my Big Agnes inflatable. It's not much to carry, and is so comfy.
How much work is it to inflate it every night? I'm looking at getting one for xmas.
Another reason to Cary a pad:
If you sleep in a shelter the floor may not be quite as clean at your living room floor at home. You going to want something to protect your sleeping bag from the dirty ground.
Fatman Running
12-07-2009, 16:51
The Golden Rule of backpacking is "Every ounce counts", but a good nights sleep after pulling a long 20 miler in a cold, raw rain, is even more important. Shave your ounces elsewhere, because the pad you have underneath you is even more important the the bag you have covering you. Your body will absorb the cold from the ground and you'll be lucky if you half-sleep.
I used the Gossemer Gear Torso Pad (3.5oz) for the PCT this year and I felt that I was comfortable and warm the entire trip including the last 4 days when I was hiking in snow. I don't see why anyone would care about carrying an extra 3.5oz; especially if it means sleeping warmer and thus needed a lighter sleeping bag.
However, the egg crate like pattern in the foam will flatten out with use, so I replaced mine twice on the trail as it was more comfortable to do so.
skinewmexico
12-07-2009, 19:30
How much work is it to inflate it every night? I'm looking at getting one for xmas.
I don't know about the BA, but my POE Ether Thermo 6 (mummy shaped) takes about 9-10 big breaths to be perfect. If you blow one up tight, you'll just have to let air out for it to be really comfortable.
Not cranky, just a lot more sensitive.
how about sensitive AND cranky. i'm there.
Blissful
12-07-2009, 19:59
rather than buy an often overpriced pad? Suggestions for alternatives would be very appreciated.
I don't know...I never considered a simple z rest or ridge rest or even a blue foam pad from Wally world over priced...
Blissful
12-07-2009, 20:00
How much work is it to inflate it every night? I'm looking at getting one for xmas.
Uh...if I can inflate my BA pad every day for six months...anyone can....even a guy...
:eek:
;)
Your bottom side will freeze in really cold weather.
Think about how your sleeping bag would perform if it was scrunched down to 1/8" think all round you. That is what happens on the bottom.
At least take a blue pad. They are light and cheap.
For no pad at all, you could pile up pine straw, leaves or whatever to sleep on.
You would probably want it pretty thick though.
In warm weather you could probably get away with no pad easier.
Wise Old Owl
12-07-2009, 20:11
In poor taste but appropriate.
Hiker - Before
http://www.landschaftsmuseum.de/Bilder/Oetzi-Rek_Ausschn-1.jpg (http://www.landschaftsmuseum.de/Bilder/Oetzi-Rek_Ausschn-1.jpg)
Hiker after (without pad)
http://www.crystalinks.com/otzi_ice1.jpg (http://www.crystalinks.com/otzi_ice1.jpg)
Honest try it once without a pad at -20 then when you cannot stand it anymore, slide the pad underneath. You did answer your own question.
gunner76
12-07-2009, 20:12
Take a pad. I forgot to take a pad one time and froze my ass off even though I was using a sleeping bag rated to sub 0 as the ground sucked the heat out.
I have a new sleeping bag rated to 20 degreees and I have been waiting for it get in the low 20's where I live so I can go outside and test it. I have a shed in my back yard that when I open the doors would be similar to a AT shelter. My wife thinks I'm crazy but I told her I would rather find out if the bag is rated properly at home when I can bale out and move inside instead of being on a camping trip where I do not have a choice. Also I wanted to test it with some of the different blow up pads (full and 3/4 lenght) I have and regular foam pads to find out how much difference they make for me. I found out when I was in the military I can put up with alot of crap if I can get enough sleep.
Skidsteer
12-07-2009, 20:38
How much work is it to inflate it every night? I'm looking at getting one for xmas.
If you can walk to the curb and get the mail you can manage inflateable sleeping pads.
In other words, you are hiking up and down mountains. If you can't wheeze out enough air to fill your mattress you aren't likely to need a mattress at the end of the day.
XCskiNYC
12-07-2009, 21:46
The Big Agnes Clearview ($50) is very light (20 by 72 by 2.5 rectangular 15 oz, 20 by 72 by 2.5 mummy 14 oz) but they only rate it down to 35 degrees. To go below that you'd need one of the other BA models with insulation or you'd have to use an additional pad such as an 8 oz blue foam pad (about $10).
It takes more work to get the air out of the Clearview than to put it in. You have to kind of squinch it around to get the air that gets trapped in the side channels. I should put a video on youtube to show new owners the proper technique. It's kinda like hugging a beach float.
I know I can blow it up.:rolleyes:
I was more so trying to get peoples views on it to compare with a self inflating thermo rest type. :) No matter My BA insulated mummy is in the mail now.
Skidsteer
12-07-2009, 22:18
I know I can blow it up.:rolleyes:
I was more so trying to get peoples views on it to compare with a self inflating thermo rest type. :) No matter My BA insulated mummy is in the mail now.
You're right, I was being a grumpy old man.
I should have said that the time difference between inflating a Thermarest and a Big Agnes is roughly equivalent to the time required to post a thread on Whiteblaze asking about it.
Is that better? :D
Snowleopard
12-07-2009, 22:20
I'm trying to go as minimalist and lightweight as possible. I have a sleeping bag rated at -10. On top of that I have a bivy sack that takes off another 10 to 15. People always say you want a sleeping pad to get a comfortable rest and protect yourself from the cold ground at night, and I understand the latter is important, but couldn't I just lay out some of my clothes in my bag to act as extra insulation rather than buy an often overpriced pad? Suggestions for alternatives would be very appreciated.
A good down -10 sleeping bag compresses to nothing under your body. The better the down, the thinner it compresses and the colder you'll be. I've shared a tent with somebody who had a really good, really expensive down sleeping bag -- I'd guess it was rated to -10 to -30. He had no pad and he froze. I had a Ridge Rest pad and a cheap +20 down bag and I was getting too warm at night. When we realized what was going on we had him put his spare clothes underneath as a pad. It wasn't comfortable, but it worked.
If you are really in -10F conditions, two pads would be good for warmth. At +10, maybe you can get by with one pad and some clothes under you. The cheap blue foam pads from Walmart will do fine for warmth. The inflatable pads are good for comfort and some are good for warmth.
I'm probably not adding anything new here . . . pretty much all good advice has already been given. When you're young, you can get by with a closed cell pad for insulation (your only concern at that age). As you grow older, the aging body screams for more comfort eventually. I went from closed cell pad in my 20s to thermarest pads until my mid-50s. I started getting really sore hips being a side sleeper and when I switched to Big Agnes Dual Core 0* inflatable mattress, oh what a difference.
What I love about the 0* BA is that it allows me to sleep in a T-shirt and underwear down into the 20s with my feet in the footbox of my 20* bag and it just draped over me, as I hate the confinement of a mummy bag. That is priceless and "poundless!"
Powder River
12-08-2009, 01:22
I'm trying to go as minimalist and lightweight as possible. I have a sleeping bag rated at -10.
If you are going minimalist, and are carrying a -10 bag how much does that weigh? I looked up the nicest -10 degree bag I could think of, the Western Mountaineering Lynx, which weighs a mere 3 pounds, 2 ounces. If you did not drop $600+ on your bag then chances are your bag weighs more than this. 4 pounds? 5 pounds? Instead you could carry a good 20 degree bag and a sleeping pad for under 3 pounds easy, which would not only keep you from freezing, (your body loses heat to the ground much faster than it losses heat to the air) but would be much more comfortable too.
bigcranky
12-08-2009, 08:07
how about sensitive AND cranky. i'm there.
I'm Cranky. You folks can be crusty, curmudgeonly, angry, sleepy, sneezy, or Doc. But if anyone is Cranky around here, it's me.
<Mumble grumble> And you kids stay off my lawn.
winter: yes, summer: no
end-o-story
If you're concerned about cost, get a cheap closed cell foam pad. If you're an early starter you'll be mighty glad you have it for the insulation. If you're concerned about weight, shave ounces elsewhere.
mweinstone
12-08-2009, 09:08
die now. or pad.
Hiked with someone who decided not to bring a pad on what was supposed to be a 4-day, 3-night hike... ended up that my friend wanted to do over 16 miles to get to the car and go home on day 3. We don't hike together anymore.
First night on grass was not too bad for him I think, but there is never grass on the trail that isn't lumpy. Second night in a shelter without pad is what I think did him in.
At some point you realize that "roughing it" actually takes away from the experience of being in Mother Nature's home for an extended period, and for those with little time like me, it becomes about maximizing the experience for the little bit of time that I can get out. Pads have always been "difficult" for me in terms of packing until I got a BA Insulated Air Core 3/4, which packs well and is more comfortable than regular foam pads.
Tipi Walter
12-08-2009, 09:56
Hiked with someone who decided not to bring a pad on what was supposed to be a 4-day, 3-night hike... ended up that my friend wanted to do over 16 miles to get to the car and go home on day 3. We don't hike together anymore.
First night on grass was not too bad for him I think, but there is never grass on the trail that isn't lumpy. Second night in a shelter without pad is what I think did him in.
At some point you realize that "roughing it" actually takes away from the experience of being in Mother Nature's home for an extended period, and for those with little time like me, it becomes about maximizing the experience for the little bit of time that I can get out. Pads have always been "difficult" for me in terms of packing until I got a BA Insulated Air Core 3/4, which packs well and is more comfortable than regular foam pads.
Your quote, "you realize that roughing it actually takes away from the experience" is exactly right. Roughing it with little camp comforts wears on the spirit after many years, and though backpacking could be defined as Managing Discomfort, there's a no-win situation whereby the stress levels outweight the joy-in-nature levels. I call it "when push comes to shove", a certain mindset where conditions hit the fan and you must stay warm and dry at all costs. Ergo the carrying of more weight for more warmth, etc. Weight equals warmth. If you're rich, weight rather than bulk equals warmth. If you're dirt poor, weight AND bulk equals warmth/ EX: Throwing an Army feather bag over your 20F down bag just to stay warm. Just study the R values of the pads and get the highest you can find and are willing to carry.
I dont think hiking without a pad is worth it unless you are survival training without a sleeping bag.
The poster above makes some sense too. A -10 dF bag is an overkill since you dont even want to use a pad. In very cold weather like with frozen ground, the equivilent of using your bag on the ground IMO would turn your -10dF bag into 20-40dF bag.
Also what he said. A neoair short weighs 9oz. A blue pad about 6oz and cost $6.
Get a lighter bag. If you are going to carry a bivy anyway, why not even lighter like a golite or nanutuk quilt and supplement it with a montbell thermawrap parka and insul pants.
Also IMO good solid sleep in paramount to having a good trip. Without it you will probably be miserable.
maxpatch67
12-08-2009, 12:50
Go without. With a little effort. A perfect spot can ususally be found without a pad. If you look under bushy areas and pines, or low spots where leaves gather, they are naturally insulated and perfect for your sleeping setup.
Spirit Walker
12-08-2009, 13:08
Alternately, bring the pad to start the trail. Try sleeping without it for a week. If you are comfortable with that, send it ahead with your drift box. If you are comfortable sleeping without, then send it home. If you aren't, you'll have it available.
If you sleep in the shelters at all, you will want some kind of pad. Those wooden floors are HARD. If you don't, they help smooth out the rocks and roots underneath and they insulate your body so you lose less heat. We use ridgerests - so they are also good sitting pads, keeping us warmer and dryer and more comfortable while we cook and read before going to bed.
Rocketman
12-08-2009, 14:37
I'm trying to go as minimalist and lightweight as possible. I have a sleeping bag rated at -10. On top of that I have a bivy sack that takes off another 10 to 15. People always say you want a sleeping pad to get a comfortable rest and protect yourself from the cold ground at night, and I understand the latter is important, but couldn't I just lay out some of my clothes in my bag to act as extra insulation rather than buy an often overpriced pad? Suggestions for alternatives would be very appreciated.
Are sleeping pads NECESSARY?
No, they aren't NECESSARY.
For thousands of years, outdoors people have slept without air mattresses or closed cell foam polymer pads. They did things like laying out any excess clothing and a bunch of other things you can read about in very old books on camping - like building sleeping quarters from naturally occurring materials.
Are sleeping pads COMFORTABLE?
Yes, some more than others.
Calling them all OVERPRICED sounds like deliberate oversimplification. Prices begin under $10 at WalMart. Google shopping lists 10 self inflating pads for under $30.
Are sleeping pads NECESSARY?
- like building sleeping quarters from naturally occurring materials.
"Yogi, Ranger Smith is not going to like this... " ;)
Watch the movie Jerimiah Johnson where the old mountain man teaches him how to build a bed in the snow.
Of course we are all in a hurry now, so sleeping on the cold ground old style takes too much work and too much time much less you have to build a decent fire to do it right..
jersey joe
12-08-2009, 15:50
Watch the movie Jerimiah Johnson where the old mountain man teaches him how to build a bed in the snow.
Of course we are all in a hurry now, so sleeping on the cold ground old style takes too much work and too much time much less you have to build a decent fire to do it right..
Such endeavors don't really align with leave no trace camping.
More like leave no woods.
Okie Dokie
12-08-2009, 17:16
Lol...good one!...Robert Redford (Jerimiah) and Will Greer (mountian man) were in the snow in that movie, but good one...think the bottom line is go out on a 15-degree night, throw your sleeping bag right on the ground, and sleep without a pad...if you get a good night's rest you fit into the category of those who don't need one...
johnnybgood
12-08-2009, 18:45
Lol...good one!...Robert Redford (Jerimiah) and Will Greer (mountian man) were in the snow in that movie, but good one...think the bottom line is go out on a 15-degree night, throw your sleeping bag right on the ground, and sleep without a pad...if you get a good night's rest you fit into the category of those who don't need one...
I'm thinking he just might take our advice and get himself a sleeping pad.:D
EarlyStarter
12-08-2009, 19:19
Yea. I think I have enough reason now to do so lol.
Good info. so far. Thanks. Is there anybody out there who actually did their hike without a pad, with no major problems?
I didn't. But I once did a winter hike and discovered when I looked in my pack, that I had forgotten my pad. I survived the night, luckily. But a pad is pretty cheap. And pretty light weight. 8 ounces and $8 as I remember.
I've lessened my pad needs over the decades by convincing my wife that a stiff mattress was healthy. But I still need a bit of padding.
So go to Walmart or whoever, buy one, and make your own decision.
Weary
Tuckahoe
12-08-2009, 22:56
When I was younger, I could sleep just about anywhere and in any position, but as I get older that is not the case anymore. The nice think about a pad is that it provides more insulation and a little bit more comfort, for a better nights sleep.
I used to sleep on the bathroom floor every now and then when I was younger. Usually happened on a Friday or Saturday night. The cold tile never bothered me while in my alcoholi disabled state.
beakerman
12-08-2009, 23:38
yeah even here in TX I don't ground sleep without a pad of some sort if for no other reason than I don't have to remove every pine cone.
Tipi Walter
12-09-2009, 08:42
Watch the movie Jerimiah Johnson where the old mountain man teaches him how to build a bed in the snow.
Of course we are all in a hurry now, so sleeping on the cold ground old style takes too much work and too much time much less you have to build a decent fire to do it right..
Or study how the Inuit stay warm: double layers of caribou hides, warm air pocket sandwiched between the two. Mukluks hand crafted and consisting of several foot layers all sandwiched together. Bombproof shelters out of the wind and "just warm enough".
Or the Lakota with their buffalo robes, very warm and very heavy. Someone mentioned how the old timers went w/o pads, but they had thick fur hides to sleep on and under. Musk Ox hair is the warmest of all animal furs, and somebody makes sweaters of the stuff but they are like $3,000 each.
Yep furs for sure in the old days.
Heavy.
One Buff robe on a backpack would be about enough.
Another Jerimiah Johnson clip.
An inuit woman in an igloo wrapped up in a fur sounds pretty interesting right now. More interesting would be to see a dog sled on the AT.
How much work is it to inflate it every night? I'm looking at getting one for xmas.
What else have you got to do with all that time after the day's hike is done? 20 or so breaths and it's done. I blow it up before dinner.
Well, there are many pads, in many degrees of prices, but a decent pad is pretty cheap. And pretty light weight. 8 ounces and $8 as I remember.
Whatever. A minimal pad is a great improvement over no pad, IMHO.
Weary
What else have you got to do with all that time after the day's hike is done? 20 or so breaths and it's done. I blow it up before dinner.When I am done at the end of the day's hike, I only have to blow mine up half way, to use in my ThermaRest chair, which is a fabulous relaxation after hiking all day. Then when I'm ready for bed, just a few more puffs and it's sleeping ready. No trouble at all, and oh so comfortable and the insulation is great (I have the dual core 0* rated one).
Have you tested the bivy in a rain storm?
mkmangold
12-13-2009, 03:03
I used to sleep on the bathroom floor every now and then when I was younger. Usually happened on a Friday or Saturday night. The cold tile never bothered me while in my alcoholi disabled state.
Great advice: skip the pad and bring booze!
johnson_sb
12-16-2009, 19:28
I recently slept in a down bag for the first time (never had down before). It's a North Face Blue Kazoo, rated to +15 I believe. Bit of a strange situation, but I was sleeping in a cot. There was no insulation built into the cot, just canvas. It was probably no colder than mid 40s, but I was cold underneath. Pretty toasty on the top and sides, even my feet. But definitely cold underneath. Is this something that you would expect particularly with down, or would I have been cold underneath with synthetic as well?
Skidsteer
12-16-2009, 19:31
You would have been cold underneath with synthetic as well. Perhaps not as bad, since it doesn't compress quite as much as down but it would still be cold.
white_russian
12-16-2009, 19:33
I recently slept in a down bag for the first time (never had down before). It's a North Face Blue Kazoo, rated to +15 I believe. Bit of a strange situation, but I was sleeping in a cot. There was no insulation built into the cot, just canvas. It was probably no colder than mid 40s, but I was cold underneath. Pretty toasty on the top and sides, even my feet. But definitely cold underneath. Is this something that you would expect particularly with down, or would I have been cold underneath with synthetic as well?
Same thing would happen with synthetic as well. Either one your body will crush the insulation. The synthetic might have the tiniest edge on down, but they are essentially the same in this situation. It is just like sleeping in a hammock, you need some sort of bottom insulation.
A summing up: Only if you like to sleep at night.
I was just going to say that. You still need bottom insulation.
Same thing would happen with synthetic as well. Either one your body will crush the insulation. The synthetic might have the tiniest edge on down, but they are essentially the same in this situation. It is just like sleeping in a hammock, you need some sort of bottom insulation.
Doooglas
12-20-2009, 17:39
LOL
AT, 1971.
No such thing.
Case closed...................
You still need bottom insulation.
Hey now, I have plenty of bottom insulation, but I still use a sleeping pad.