View Full Version : multi-vitamins
markellag
08-30-2004, 12:52
I read that some hikers use multi-vitamins when hiking.
Does a person especially need multi-vitamins when hiking ????
orangebug
08-30-2004, 13:36
Only if they have poor nutrition. Probably the most important supplement is Calcium to help avoid stress fractures and shin splints. You could use TUMS or the equivalent, or remember the amazing power of cheese.
Bill...
I read that some hikers use multi-vitamins when hiking.
Does a person especially need multi-vitamins when hiking ????
I think if you plan on being out for more than a few weeks, than multi-vitamins are essential in my (non-professional) opionion. I might add that Bill (Orangebug) has probably forgotton more about this topic than I have ever known.
Most hikers (not all) do not carry the right combo of food to ensure proper nutrition. A good multi-vitamin weighs next to nothing, and is a regular addition to my food bad. I also carry Emergen-C packets which contain loads of Potassium & Vitamin C. I add them to my water in the morning for a little extra zip.
If you're gonna spend more than a few weeks on the trail (ie: thru-hike) , I would suggest you bring this up with your physician as part of your pre-hike check-up.
I also took Glucosamine & Chondroiton (sp??) as a prophylactic during my thru-hike. Arthur-itis runs in the family. After the first 2 weeks, I had no pain in my joints, other than the regular stiffness that most hikers feel.
Hope that helps.
markellag
08-30-2004, 15:21
I will gt Emer'Gen-C with Glucosamine & Chondroitin today.
I know and understand Arthritis in the feet.
I think if you plan on being out for more than a few weeks, than multi-vitamins are essential in my (non-professional) opionion. I might add that Bill (Orangebug) has probably forgotton more about this topic than I have ever known. Most hikers (not all) do not carry the right combo of food to ensure proper nutrition. A good multi-vitamin weighs next to nothing, and is a regular addition to my food bad. I also carry Emergen-C packets which contain loads of Potassium & Vitamin C. I add them to my water in the morning for a little extra zip.If you're gonna spend more than a few weeks on the trail (ie: thru-hike) , I would suggest you bring this up with your physician as part of your pre-hike check-up. I also took Glucosamine & Chondroiton (sp??) as a prophylactic during my thru-hike. Arthur-itis runs in the family. After the first 2 weeks, I had no pain in my joints, other than the regular stiffness that most hikers feel.
Hope that helps.
I read that some hikers use multi-vitamins when hiking.
Does a person especially need multi-vitamins when hiking ????
Yes. Absolutely. And even ESPECIALLY so when hiking, etc.
Whether you are out for a day, a short section, or many weeks, hiking places tremendous strain on an unprepared body. Think of it as a boatload of aging (if not alleviated by diet and rest). In this regard, the 100% - 200% of Vitamin C and Vitamin E provided by nearly every multi-vitamin aids in muscle repair and re-recruitment as you rest overnight or (assuming a hard/easy schedule) on easy days.
Similarly, hiking involves, on the cellular level, a boatload of energy production and re-storage and production (again!) throughout your day. The B-Complex vitamins, as well as (if you can find it) Chromium Picolinate and CQ10 are both MARVELOUSLY helpful in maintaining robust energy levels throughout your day -- helping you utilize the "facilities" you already have available in your muscles and diet. In addition, however, the B-Complex will assist your brain function in staying alert; chromium picolinate will assure any "excesses" in your diet are maximally directed toward glycogen (energy) production, not fat (storage); and CQ10 is a powerful antioxidant that rivals C/E, along with its cellular energy production role.
The effects from adding/subtracting a good portion of C/E/BComplex/CQ10/Cr are not subtle. Give yourself 4 alternating weekends to go out and bust butt on some local trail, with/without the vitamins, and see for yourself.
sloetoe
Cedar Tree
08-30-2004, 19:21
On my hike, I initially did not take vitamins. Late NC/TN into VA, I was feeling increasingly slugglish. In speaking with Lobo about it, he asked about vitamins, I said no, he gave me a bunch.
It didn't happen instantly, like the next day, but over the next week I felt better and better, and I think the vitamins were the reason.
It may have been the placebo effect, but I took vitamins the rest of the way.
I say, wait until you need them badly.
Then take some.
CT
Crazy_Al
08-31-2004, 15:06
Do you carry a medicine chest in pack ???
How do you take all the vitamins & minerals ???
Yes. Absolutely. And even ESPECIALLY so when hiking, etc.
Whether you are out for a day, a short section, or many weeks, hiking places tremendous strain on an unprepared body. Think of it as a boatload of aging (if not alleviated by diet and rest). In this regard, the 100% - 200% of Vitamin C and Vitamin E provided by nearly every multi-vitamin aids in muscle repair and re-recruitment as you rest overnight or (assuming a hard/easy schedule) on easy days. Similarly, hiking involves, on the cellular level, a boatload of energy production and re-storage and production (again!) throughout your day. The B-Complex vitamins, as well as (if you can find it) Chromium Picolinate and CQ10 are both MARVELOUSLY helpful in maintaining robust energy levels throughout your day -- helping you utilize the "facilities" you already have available in your muscles and diet. In addition, however, the B-Complex will assist your brain function in staying alert; chromium picolinate will assure any "excesses" in your diet are maximally directed toward glycogen (energy) production, not fat (storage); and CQ10 is a powerful antioxidant that rivals C/E, along with its cellular energy production role.
The effects from adding/subtracting a good portion of C/E/BComplex/CQ10/Cr are not subtle. Give yourself 4 alternating weekends to go out and bust butt on some local trail, with/without the vitamins, and see for yourself.
sloetoe
orangebug
08-31-2004, 17:23
Similarly, hiking involves, on the cellular level, a boatload of energy production and re-storage and production (again!) throughout your day. The B-Complex vitamins, as well as (if you can find it) Chromium Picolinate and CQ10 are both MARVELOUSLY helpful in maintaining robust energy levels throughout your day -- ...
Not to start another Gatorade thread, but much of this is based on anecdote and marketing. I strongly doubt the wisdom of taking metals as a dietary supplement, especially when chromium looks so much better on bumpers. Thus far, it is hard to demonstrate that Vit C and E have significant antioxidant effects in clinical circumstances. CQ10 has enjoyed quite a variety of claims, including a cure for AIDS. The other items touted at least will not hurt a hiker beyond wallet depletion.
So, to each their own, but try to get your nutrition the way Mother Nature intended - a well balanced diet.
Bill...
eyahiker
08-31-2004, 20:01
Thus far, it is hard to demonstrate that Vit C and E have significant antioxidant effects in clinical circumstances.
Now he's an MD/Chemist. I highly doubt you are a shrink posting this kind of BS as fact...do your history on the two before posting please. Your opions directly oppose that of the AMA and other MG organizations. Thanks.
orangebug
09-01-2004, 08:15
What a delightful, intelligent and thought provoking commentary. :rolleyes:
Yes, I am an MD, with a bit of expertise in chemistry, pharmacology, physiology and pathology of several organ systems. I read JAMA among the 20 odd journals each week. I am aware of Vit E literature regarding dementia, but that the benefits may have nothing to do with antioxidant properties. I am aware that many among the AMA recommend multivits, as they at least offer little risk. We also note that hypovitiminosis is unknown in the US for over 50 years, except in certain cases of severe nutritional neglect, anorexia nervosa, malabsorption syndromes and other uncommon events.
I also know that much medical literature needs to be understood with some enlightened ability for critical thought. For instance, we had a major study recommended Zinc lozenges for treatment of the common cold. Months later, we learned the wonderful study was by the owner of the factory.
I will be very glad to learn that antioxidants have benefit in humans without hypovitaminosis conditions. I would be very glad to learn if these actually improve performance among athletes. Thus far I've not seen such literature outside of marketing.
Bill...
Blue Jay
09-01-2004, 08:40
Now he's an MD/Chemist. I highly doubt you are a shrink posting this kind of BS as fact...do your history on the two before posting please. Your opions directly oppose that of the AMA and other MG organizations. Thanks.
Please keep the political AMA based insults on the political threads. This thread is about vitamins, not the AMA. Have some respect for those on this forum who want to avoid politics (clearly not me).
It's hard to get a truly well-balanced diet on a thru-hike; so I took a "Women's One A Day" every day on the trail during mine (full of calcium, iron, A, C, etc., etc.). I mailed them in my re-supply, and they weighed nothing. I felt energetic throughout my hike, and though I don't know that this was due to the vitamins, I believe that they certainly didn't hurt!
Do you carry a medicine chest in pack ???
How do you take all the vitamins & minerals ???
My first aid kit is mostly: 4 safety pins, a tube of Neosporin, and a roll of duct tape. Or less.
These vitamins can be found in one pill -- you just have to shop a bit for which "mix" of "special ingrediants" you want. Don't pay attention to whether it's called a formula for "older," "active," "woman's," "younger," or whatever, just look at what's in it. The rest is hype. Be patient with what's out there.
Now he's an MD/Chemist. I highly doubt you are a shrink posting this kind of BS as fact...do your history on the two before posting please. Your opions directly oppose that of the AMA and other MG organizations. Thanks.
I've met Orangebug in person once, and found him to be great company. Unfortunately, his posts parrot book l'arnin' and are without any extended personal experience in hiking or self-propelled travel of any sort. As here, responses in opposition to his True Perceived Wisdom produce bombast -- be forewarned, there will be more. It's mostly harmless until he starts saying things like "Vitamins won't do you any good. Trust me I'm a doctor."
sloetoe
GA->ME'79
who, to be fair, posts the following
by way of bona fides for 2004:
Fontana->Springer 11 days/New Year's Eve; w/o NSAIDS, btw, and no daylight
Kentucky Ultra Trail Sojourn; March 21, 34 miles, 7.5 hours, no training. (Ugh!)
Mohican Trail 100 race; June 19-20th, on ~15 miles per week of training
July 20th?->August 13th, Pinkham->Katahdin (320? miles) with my 10 year old twin boys, who *add* body weight when we hike, and who've now sectioned 1/3rd of the AT, amongst other things.
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/indianaatclub/vwp?.dir=/sloetoe+%26+sons+inc.&.src=gr&.dnm=110-1048_IMG.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/indianaatclub/lst%3f%26.dir=/sloetoe%2b%2526%2bsons%2binc.%26.src=gr%26.view=t
eyahiker
09-01-2004, 12:06
orangevw: Your arrogance belies your profession, and your professionalism.
I do not believe you.
Blue Jay, youmay be right, just couldn't help myself. If you choose to pass out detailed information about your profession for the sake of convincing others, expect to get it back in your face now and again. It happens to me all the time about my beliefs, no harm done. I'm sure OB will recover.
TIC: Maybe we should all post our degrees in our galleries, wouldn't that be fun?
orangebug
09-01-2004, 14:49
I've met Orangebug in person once, and found him to be great company. Unfortunately, his posts parrot book l'arnin' and are without any extended personal experience in hiking or self-propelled travel of any sort. As here, responses in opposition to his True Perceived Wisdom produce bombast -- be forewarned, there will be more. It's mostly harmless until he starts saying things like "Vitamins won't do you any good. Trust me I'm a doctor."
I'm sorry that you feel this way, and more sorry that you would put such words in my mouth. Especially as all I've said basically parrotted "The rest is hype. Be patient with what's out there."
Bill....
eyahiker
09-01-2004, 14:59
Bill......be A patient.
Don't expect everyone to jump at your suggestions here, you're the same as every hiker on here, no matter what the profession.
You get what you pay for sometimes.;)
flyfisher
09-01-2004, 15:03
I know I do not always eat a balanced diet on the trail. I do enjoy eating as much vitamin rich food in towns as I can. However, I carry and take a multivitamin tablet once a day to make up the difference whenever my hikes are longer than a few days.
This is consistent with advice I have always given to college bound youngsters who are unlikely to always eat a balanced diet away from home, living in dorm. I figure if the advice was good for them, it is good for me too.
The Solemates
09-01-2004, 15:17
I would advise against taking vitamens during your thru-hike. My wife and I took them the first 3 months or so until she developed acid reflux disease from our diet. The vitamens egged this disease on (and even had a hand in causing it), as they eat up the lining of the stomach after significant long-term intake of them.
orangebug
09-01-2004, 18:14
What was the offending agent for your wife? Excessive Iron? I can't imagine that a routine multi-vit would cause such a problem.
Bill...
All things are rational with a good ignore list.
eyahiker
09-01-2004, 18:16
Bill, how dare you add a signature!
I thought this was for those egomaniacs only?
And a lovely orange.......................;)
Until a couple of years ago I took a multi-vitamin, daily, on hikes. They seemed to "help". Then I began to read all the labels on the food I was eating and realized I was overdosing (some massive) on most of them. Last two years, no multi-vitamin on the hike, just at home. No problems / No worry!
flyfisher
09-02-2004, 10:42
I would advise against taking vitamens during your thru-hike. My wife and I took them the first 3 months or so until she developed acid reflux disease from our diet. The vitamens egged this disease on (and even had a hand in causing it), as they eat up the lining of the stomach after significant long-term intake of them.
I respect your experience as far greater than mine...
Everyone's constitution is different. (heresy statement ahead. avoid if heresy bothers you) For the health of my stomach's lining, I avoid Motrin (ibuprophen) unless I really must have something - and then I try to limit it to no more than a couple days of use. I have not had any problem with vitamins.
orangebug
09-02-2004, 11:02
...(heresy statement ahead. avoid if heresy bothers you) For the health of my stomach's lining, I avoid Motrin (ibuprophen) unless I really must have something - and then I try to limit it to no more than a couple days of use..
Where was the heresy? There are no NSAIDS without adverse effects, including GI bleeds. Tylenol can melt your liver. Water kills someone every second.
You gotta watch out for the hype, whether vitamins, drugs or other marketers.
Bil...
I would advise against taking vitamens during your thru-hike. My wife and I took them the first 3 months or so until she developed acid reflux disease from our diet. The vitamens egged this disease on (and even had a hand in causing it), as they eat up the lining of the stomach after significant long-term intake of them.
Very odd that a multi-vitamin would do that. On my thru-hike in 2000 I met a guy whose stomach lining was deterioating due to the iodine he was using to treat his water. On both my A.T. and P.C.T. hikes I used multivitamins with no adverse effects. Then again I really don't know if they were necessary since I ate energy bars on a fairly regular basis and they have alot of vitamins.
Until a couple of years ago I took a multi-vitamin, daily, on hikes. They seemed to "help". Then I began to read all the labels on the food I was eating and realized I was overdosing (some massive) on most of them. Last two years, no multi-vitamin on the hike, just at home. No problems / No worry!
Im not a nutritionist so I really dont know, but I dont think a person can overdose (using the common implication of the term) on vitamins...whatever is not used is disposed of with a person's waste.
orangebug
09-16-2004, 17:01
No, you can overdose, particularly with some of the fat soluable vitamins. A and E are the most common to over ingest. K can get there also. C in excess of 500 mg at a time gets in your bladder real quick.
smokymtnsteve
09-16-2004, 19:29
I take a multi-vitamin everyday,have for years,on the trail or at home.
No, you can overdose, particularly with some of the fat soluable vitamins. A and E are the most common to over ingest. K can get there also. C in excess of 500 mg at a time gets in your bladder real quick.
Ok, but is it physically threatening? Vitamin C, I know, is peed out if taken to excess but what about the others?
No, you can overdoseBy overdose, do you mean simply take more than the recommended daily allowance, or get a toxic reaction from taking too much?
Just curious. I have never heard of a problem with taking a one-a-day type vitamin. I know someone said the daily vitamins rotted out their stomach, but perhaps it was something else? Maybe they didn't filter their water :)
orangebug
09-16-2004, 21:31
Ok, but is it physically threatening? Vitamin C, I know, is peed out if taken to excess but what about the others?
Yes, with hypervitaminosis A, D, E and K.
Hypervitaminosis A is easy to do to achieve and quite nasty. Acutely, you can lose your skin. Chronically, you can create increase pressure inside you skull, not a nice experience. Other bone, skin and psychiatric problems can occur.
D usually requires a prescription and takes months to develop. Muscle and Bone problems and kidney stones occur.
E is pretty easy to create, but again requires pretty massive chronic dosages to lead to bleeding and possibly hypothyroidism. That requires dosages in excess of 4000IU daily, which some folks are recommended for Alzheimer's and aggressive anti-oxidant management. Vit K can similarly cause bleeding and liver problems, but is really rare to see.
If you Google search on Hypervitaminosis, you'll get far more than you want to read.
Bill....
Some vitamins, minerals, and elements have recommended upper limits along with their dietary reference intakes and recommended daily allowances. These are set by the USDA because toxicities are more likely to occur above these limits. A great reference for all vit/min/elements is at the usda website:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/etext/000105.html
I used this to keep a patient from overdosing herself on Vitamin A this past summer. She didn't believe that vitamins could be overdosed.
Always keep in mind that supplements, including vitamins, are not standardized by the FDA. Caveat emptor and trust your brand!
Personally, I take a daily vitamin at home ... will decide on if I'm taking one on the trail once I figure out my food plans.
Some vitamins, minerals, and elements have recommended upper limits along with their dietary reference intakes and recommended daily allowances. These are set by the USDA because toxicities are more likely to occur above these limits. A great reference for all vit/min/elements is at the usda website:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/etext/000105.html
I used this to keep a patient from overdosing herself on Vitamin A this past summer. She didn't believe that vitamins could be overdosed.
Always keep in mind that supplements, including vitamins, are not standardized by the FDA. Caveat emptor and trust your brand!
Personally, I take a daily vitamin at home ... will decide on if I'm taking one on the trail once I figure out my food plans.Interesting chart. From it I can deduce that many thruhikers overdose on Choline. Adverse effects of overdosing include: fishy odor, sweating, salivation. Also, overdosing on vitamin C results in gastrointestinal disturbances. Yep.
Anyway, from the upper limits in the chart and a quick peek at my food pantry lables, it seems unlikely that one can overdose on vitamins merely by taking a one-a-day vitamin unless one eats a very weird diet. It looks like a deliberate attempt (special supplements) are needed to overdose.
Thanks for the laugh Frosty. I must have missed the thru-hiker specific footnote my first time through the chart!
Thanks for the laugh Frosty. I must have missed the thru-hiker specific footnote my first time through the chart!Thanks for posting the chart. Sometimes I wonder how I ever got along with the internet. Guess I'll find out next year for four or five months, huh?
Yes, with hypervitaminosis A, D, E and K.
Hypervitaminosis A is easy to do to achieve and quite nasty. Acutely, you can lose your skin. Chronically, you can create increase pressure inside you skull, not a nice experience. Other bone, skin and psychiatric problems can occur.
D usually requires a prescription and takes months to develop. Muscle and Bone problems and kidney stones occur.
E is pretty easy to create, but again requires pretty massive chronic dosages to lead to bleeding and possibly hypothyroidism. That requires dosages in excess of 4000IU daily, which some folks are recommended for Alzheimer's and aggressive anti-oxidant management. Vit K can similarly cause bleeding and liver problems, but is really rare to see.
If you Google search on Hypervitaminosis, you'll get far more than you want to read.
Bill....
how many of your typical one-a-day pills does it take to reach that state?
orangebug
09-17-2004, 16:45
Read your bottle, Powerbar and such to find out what you are ingesting.
I'd avoid taking more than 500% RDA of Vit A anytime. Hence, I'd avoid Vit A supplement if I'm eating any fruits and veggies.
I know that Vit E is pretty bulky and hard to keep in a solid pill - hence not likely to be an issue with multi-vits Vit D & K are actually non-issues in adults - although an adult could conceivable get prescription Vit D and overdoes.
If I were going to take a multi-vit, I'd get a pretty boring B-complex with folic acid. I don't expect to get scurvy with a hiker's diet and town stops. I don't expect to need a bunch of minerals other than calcium. K.I.S.S.
Bill...
Originally Posted by markellag:
I read that some hikers use multi-vitamins when hiking.
Does a person especially need multi-vitamins when hiking ????
Ugh.
Yes. Absolutely. And even ESPECIALLY so when hiking, etc.
Whether you are out for a day, a short section, or many weeks, hiking places tremendous strain on an unprepared body. Think of it as a boatload of aging (if not alleviated by diet and rest). In this regard, the 100% - 200% of Vitamin C and Vitamin E provided by nearly every multi-vitamin aids in muscle repair and re-recruitment as you rest overnight or (assuming a hard/easy schedule) on easy days.
Similarly, hiking involves, on the cellular level, a boatload of energy production and re-storage and production (again!) throughout your day. The B-Complex vitamins, as well as (if you can find it) Chromium Picolinate and CQ10 are both MARVELOUSLY helpful in maintaining robust energy levels throughout your day -- helping you utilize the "facilities" you already have available in your muscles and diet. In addition, however, the B-Complex will assist your brain function in staying alert; chromium picolinate will assure any "excesses" in your diet are maximally directed toward glycogen (energy) production, not fat (storage); and CQ10 is a powerful antioxidant that rivals C/E, along with its cellular energy production role.
The effects from adding/subtracting a good portion of C/E/BComplex/CQ10/Cr are not subtle. Give yourself 4 alternating weekends to go out and bust butt on some local trail, with/without the vitamins, and see for yourself.
sloetoe