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10-K
12-09-2009, 05:34
So, I'm leaving the comforts of the South to go hike the cold NY/NJ section this weekend and the temps are going to be in the teens at night.....

Last winter I had a bad experience with water freezing in my platypus.....

How do you deal with that? I'm contemplating taking an extra water bottle and skipping the platy to avoid the hassle.

Anyone hike with a platypus in freezing weather? How do you keep the water from freezing while you sleep?

Toolshed
12-09-2009, 07:56
Water bottles. Nalgene. Heat them at night and bring them in your bag. During the day if the water is warm, it should be fine and not freeze up, so no need for a water bottle parka. Plat's are a nuisance for winter hiking.

mweinstone
12-09-2009, 08:14
fill it all the way and put it outside your sleepingbag but under your knees.this makes it to full and to moveing to freeze. blow the water out of the hose with lots of blowing each night .add an electrolite pack like emergen c to it to increase salene. my 4 litre msr bag dont freeze when i do this. maby it has chunks in the morning. when you wake during the night, if you do, give it a swish around with a single move of your legs and all is well.

mweinstone
12-09-2009, 08:15
wonder if water could be carried in the seat of pants as a cushion and to provide water pressure when you sit?

Tipi Walter
12-09-2009, 08:27
I would never sleep with a bladder full of water(urine's okay), and I would never even use a platy for winter camping. Too many tubes. And things leak for no reason sometimes. I got away from Nalgenes when they had their BPA scare and went with 2 Sigg liters, and on my last trip it got down to 7F and so I wrapped them in a smartwool sock and put each one in my boot inside the tent.

Boiling up a liter and putting it in a bottle works pretty good, although if it's really cold(-10F)this system is only temporary. When I have to deal with really cold conditions, I fill my 2 liter MSR titanium cook pot full of creek/spring water and place it in the tent vestibule for morning. Of course, it is mostly frozen but all I have to do it set it on my stove and start getting fresh boiled water for the day. Let the pot store your frozen water and you won't have a problem getting it out or getting it boiled.

Egads
12-09-2009, 08:31
I have slept with a platy. Never again after having one split one morning (fortunately after waking and while packing) It was a bitch though as I had only ~6-8 ozs during a 30 mile dry stretch during the drought a few years back.

Alligator
12-09-2009, 09:04
I leave my platypus empty and the hose empty as well at night. I bring one Nalgene wide mouth bottle for nighttime water/hot water bottle. In the morning, I add one part boiling water to two parts water in the platy and slip that into a blue foam cozy. While hiking keep air in the tubing.

Well, I sometimes forget to clear the water out of the hose:o. You can stick that in your jacket in the morning and it'll melt, just be real careful to keep the open end higher up.

nitewalker
12-09-2009, 10:21
it seems to me that the platy would be w waste of time for winter hiking. like tipi says there are too many things to worry about already nevermind keeping the platy thawed. the platy is great for the summer when your always gasping for air. just suck on the tube and wammo water and instant relief. when i hike in the winter my water intake while hiking is less needed due to the constant flow of cool air. dont get me wrong about water intake because the body still needs to take in its share of water but while hiking due to the cool air it seems less of a demand as i hike. in winter i usually only drink water when im stoped. when in summer it seems i need to stop at times for water..keep the platy home for winter. its not worth the extra agravation...

the best way to thaw it out would be to keep it from freezing......peace

Cabin Fever
12-09-2009, 10:51
this makes it to full..to freeze

Bad, bad science my friend. Freezing water stops at nothing.

Tinker
12-09-2009, 11:06
I've carried a water bag in the winter (extra water) in a fanny pack. It was under my parka and close to my body so, though it did get cold in the 20+ degree weather it never froze. No, I did not dare to take it to bed with me. I also had a 16 oz. drink bottle with me that I refilled from the bladder. Not quite as handy as a drinking tube (I do use one from time to time) but I didn't have to worry about insulating the tube.
There's a picture of me and my bottle (mounted on my shoulder strap) here under Parade of Fools January. I'd seen other hikers do it and decided to try it.

Compass
12-09-2009, 11:52
To keep bottle caps from freezing on tight store the bottle upside down so the ice crystals form on the bottom of the bottle.


. Let the pot store your frozen water and you won't have a problem getting it out or getting it boiled.

Due to the heat of fusion if you just thaw frozen water with a stove(31*F- 33*F) you would use almost as much fuel to boil 33* F water. To be exact that much energy would heat 33* F water to 208*F. Heat of fusion is the same reason a couple of ice cubes can cool a beverage without watering it down significantly.

Therefore it is worth the fuel savings to try not to let water freeze.

Manwich
12-09-2009, 11:57
Blow air into the tube so the tube doesn't freeze up. That's where it'll freeze first.

ShelterLeopard
12-09-2009, 12:44
I will never sleep with a bladder in my bag. No way. What I like is filling one nalgene with boiling water, and putting it in one of my boots. Often will not freeze. The other I fill will slightly less hot water, and double bag in a ziplock. I think I may start putting a thick sock over it, so I can put totally boiling water in and not burn myself. Then put it in the foot of your sleeping bag and it will not freeze, and your feet'll stay warm. I only carrying a water "bag" (not a bladder, but one of those bag bottles) for if a water source is far away, and I don't want to go back the next morning, or if I'll be having any trouble finding water through the day. I don't keep it full at night.

Tipi Walter
12-09-2009, 12:56
Therefore it is worth the fuel savings to try not to let water freeze.

Uh, the reason I carry more fuel in January/February is because of this. Anyway, when it's -10F or worse your "try not to let water freeze" sounds good on paper but doesn't work out. But here's the neat thing: ground springs usually hold liquid water even at the lowest temps, although here again in a deep freeze even these will get solid. Have you ever seen a creek or spring completely frozen solid? Check out the fotog below I took on a trip about 2 years ago. Frozen springhead.

juma
12-09-2009, 13:37
So, I'm leaving the comforts of the South to go hike the cold NY/NJ section this weekend and the temps are going to be in the teens at night.....

Last winter I had a bad experience with water freezing in my platypus.....

How do you deal with that? I'm contemplating taking an extra water bottle and skipping the platy to avoid the hassle.

Anyone hike with a platypus in freezing weather? How do you keep the water from freezing while you sleep?

speaking frozen water, the snow report seems to show about 4-6 inches of snow over NJ/NY right now. http://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/nsa/index.html?year=2009&month=12&day=9&units=e&region=Northeast I suggest replanning for another date.

10-K
12-09-2009, 13:40
speaking frozen water, the snow report seems to show about 4-6 inches of snow over NJ/NY right now. http://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/nsa/index.html?year=2009&month=12&day=9&units=e&region=Northeast I suggest replanning for another date.

I'd like some feedback on this...

ShelterLeopard
12-09-2009, 13:52
Feedback on NJ? Last night, at my house we had 5 inches, and more snow was coming down. This morning it turned to rain and there is disgusting slush in lots of places, which WILL, by nightfall turn to solid ice. I love hiking in the snow though- don't change because of snow!!

ShelterLeopard
12-09-2009, 13:53
I'm in North/Central Jersey, five minutes from PA, and about 35 minutes from Delaware Water Gap, so near enough to the trail.

canoehead
12-09-2009, 20:44
I'd rather do the bottles. multi use gear...
Fillem up, store them upside down so when it does freeze the ice is at the bottom.
Use as hot water in bag at night.
Insulated cover gives you a few hours of hot / warm water while hiking
Play drums on them when empty
Throw them at hikikng partner just cuz.
lots o fun

Jester2000
12-09-2009, 20:51
. . . I got away from Nalgenes when they had their BPA scare and went with 2 Sigg liters . . .

Just so everyone knows, recently produced Nalgenes are BPA-Free.


Bad, bad science my friend. Freezing water stops at nothing.

Well, it does hesitate in the face of saline, which Matty also mentions, Mr. Wizard.


As we all know, the best place to keep your Platy is in your pants. And at home when winter camping.

XCskiNYC
12-09-2009, 21:18
Water carrying on my last couple of hikes was carried out with one of these MSR Deluxe Dromedary bags.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___87707

Never had it below freezing yet. The product copy says: "Can be dropped and even accidentally frozen without rupturing or tearing."

It does look to be made with heavier cloth (200 denier) than the Dromlites but as far as freezing with a full load of water and not rupturing, that would defy the laws of physics.

10-K
12-09-2009, 21:45
I'm going to leave the platypus and just take an extra nalgene - I've got a few of those nalgene canteens that I'll toss in the pack for good measure.

Now, my last decision is:

a) hyperflow
b) steripen
c) aqua-mira

Don't want to bust my pump in freezing weather...

sheepdog
12-09-2009, 21:50
wonder if water could be carried in the seat of pants as a cushion and to provide water pressure when you sit?

Kind of add a whole new meaning to

my water broke

babbage
12-10-2009, 21:18
I would never sleep with a bladder full of water(urine's okay), and I would never even use a platy for winter camping. Too many tubes. And things leak for no reason sometimes. I got away from Nalgenes when they had their BPA scare and went with 2 Sigg liters, and on my last trip it got down to 7F and so I wrapped them in a smartwool sock and put each one in my boot inside the tent.

Boiling up a liter and putting it in a bottle works pretty good, although if it's really cold(-10F)this system is only temporary. When I have to deal with really cold conditions, I fill my 2 liter MSR titanium cook pot full of creek/spring water and place it in the tent vestibule for morning. Of course, it is mostly frozen but all I have to do it set it on my stove and start getting fresh boiled water for the day. Let the pot store your frozen water and you won't have a problem getting it out or getting it boiled.

Tipi nailed it.
A bag of water in the sleeping bag? if you had a leak of burst in the night with temps in the teens your trip might be over - a soaked bag, turning to a frozen bag is a little to risky for me.

Thrasher
12-11-2009, 00:30
I'm leaving in February for a northbound thru hike. I was only going to bring 2 powerade/gatorade bottles. Should I reconsider and bring a nalgene or klean kanteen along so I can put boiling water in it?

ShelterLeopard
12-11-2009, 00:51
Most definitely.

JAK
12-11-2009, 09:47
I think Tipi is right on with the metal flasks for winter, so you can reheat if neccessary. It is fuel intensive, but its better than a frozen Nalgene, which happens. Also, when it is a really cold morning is when you need water the most. Been there. There wasn't any snow to melt either, just alot of frozen dirt. Had to hike thirsty until I came across a somewhat unfrozen ditch full of wet dirt. Something to think about.

Doctari
12-11-2009, 11:30
My Platty is in a neoprene sleeve, so far the water has stayed water down to around 8 degrees, the hose, also in a neoprene cover, freezes very soon after getting to 32. What I do (when I remember to) is after I drink I blow the tube dry. This seems to help, but after a while the bladder is full of air :p & I have to stop & bleed some off :rolleyes:
The Neoprene sleeve & tube cover was a gift from a friend who got it as a prototype from (I think) Platypus, so I don't know if they are actually available.

My small Gatorade water bottle hangs from my hammock ridgeline at night & stays cold but liquid at temps down to around 8 degrees. As I walk tho the bottle, being unprotected, freezes. The Platy is tucked deep into my pack & has been slightly iced but usable at similar conditions at night, and being against my back while I walk seems to stay liquid, as long as I clear the tube.

Snowleopard
12-11-2009, 13:24
To keep water from freezing in cold weather (0F or below).
start with boiling water (herbal tea for flavoring if desired, some people recommend adding jello packet for calories and flavor).
store upside down so the threads of the bottle don't freeze and the water that's not frozen is accessible.
use insulation like this insulated water bottle holder
http://www.rei.com/product/770795
or make your own with duct tape and blue foam pad; an old sock over the bottle gives some insulation. Water inside your pack may (or may not) be insulated well enough to stay liquid.
You need to be able to reach water easily so you can drink frequently. A smaller bottle inside your parka will stay liquid.
Sometimes you can keep it from freezing overnight by keeping it in the tent next to your sleeping bag.
Make an effort to find liquid water because it takes a lot of fuel to melt ice or snow. People doing heavy hot tent hiking in the north carry a giant chisel/crowbar thing to chop through lake ice to get to water.
I haven't tried it but snow is a good insulator, so burying water bottles in snow will help keep it liquid overnight.

The AMC winter hiking/snowshoeing courses tell you to eat and drink at every chance. If you stop for a minute to figure out the trail, take a drink and eat a snack. It's very easy to get dehydrated in cold weather exercise.

Wags
12-15-2009, 11:36
keeping water in your cookpot is a solid idea, if you plan on firing up the stove in the morning, however if you're close enough to the stream wouldn't it make more sense to just go to the stream and get it in the AM?

i'm in agreeance w/ those who leave the platy's at home during winter. in fact, i've made the change this summer from the platy to water bottles. just b/c i can better monitor how much i'm drinking and how much water i have left. easy enough in winter to bring the water bottles into the sleeping bag w/ you

mkmangold
12-16-2009, 11:50
Perhaps, once they manufacture a truly portable one of these: http://www.impactlab.com/2009/05/06/turn-urine-into-drinking-water-with-the-h2o/
we can recycle not only the water but also the body heat.

ShelterLeopard
12-16-2009, 12:35
Aw, I thought it was going to be a stillsuit from Dune...

Water in cook pot is a good idea, but it'll most definitely freeze solid. Does anyone have an idea of how long it takes to boil (or at least turn back to liquid) a completely solid block of ice inside a cookpot?

Compass
12-16-2009, 13:04
It takes much longer than just boiling 33*F water because the Ice block will not distribute the heat evenly.

Every effort should be taken to avoid "letting" your water freeze. Heating it to a boil and sleeping with it uses less fuel than letting it freeze out in your vestibule and then thawing it. In the morning you will still have 80*F+ water. And yes have a GOOD bottle to do this with not a Gatoraid, knockoff nalgene, or bladder. 1L soda bottles are lighter and are designed not to leak even under pressure.

To repeat myself:
Due to the heat of fusion if you just thaw frozen water with a stove(31*F- 33*F) you would use almost as much fuel to boil 33* F water. To be exact that much energy would heat 33* F water to 208*F. Heat of fusion is the same reason a couple of ice cubes can cool a beverage without watering it down significantly

10-K
12-20-2009, 19:04
I did leave the platypus at home and took an extra nalgene.

Boiled water and poured it back in the nalgenes before getting into my bag, covered the nalgenes with a sock and all was good. I didn't have any freezing water problems and for the 7 days I was out the temperature only went above 32 a few times - mostly in the mid 20's and upper teens the entire hike.

As the temps were at or close to single digits at night, I appreciated the warmth very much!

JAK
12-21-2009, 11:20
I think you want to avoid the water freezing, but you still have to be prepared if it does freeze. Metal containers that you can heat over a small wood fire, if they do happen to freeze. Some sort of neoprene or wool insulators so they won't, and to keep your tea warm while hiking. It would be nice if they make metal containers with a wide mouth, so you could clean them easier, and even use them as a pot/mug as well as a water carrier. A wineskin carried under the sweater is a good trick also, but there are only so many drinks you can carry in that. I don't like to put tea in it with milk, for example, but hot lemonade cleans out OK. That is more of a cross-country ski day-trip thing for me.

I'm not big on the dromedaries even in summer, so I can't really comment, but will anyway. I think dromedaries really only make sense for mountain bikers, or folks with oral fixation. I'm not sure about desert hiking, but even winter hiking and summer hiking I don't think your ever have to drink more often than every 30 minutes. Still I like to drink tea or coffee as I hike, but I like to drink out of a mug or canteen, not out of a stinking tube. It's really not that difficult that don't have a free hand. That said. I do like a wineskin, on ski trips. Nice to stop and have a squirt now and then. I don't see how a dromedary would be much different. I guess it comes down to what you've gotten used to.