View Full Version : Internal vs. External
ozarkman
12-09-2009, 22:47
There seems to be many internal frame packs on the market and few external frames. What are the pros and cons. I tend to favor the external frames but have not owned an internal. What am I missing?
Okie Dokie
12-09-2009, 22:58
Nothing...just a matter of personal preference, at least in terms of an AT thru...more developmental/marketing work has gone into "internals" over the last few decades and they've been made prettier and sold by salespeople telling people what "mountain climbers" prefer...you won't be mountain climbing, just backpacking...external fames are fine...just get one that feels good on you and that you like...I stripped down a used 1972 model Kelty XL Expedition Tioga (5500 cu inches) - made my own shoulder straps and re-fitted the hipbelt and used it on an At thru...no problem...if an internal frame fits you better go with that...just don't try to keep two loaves of bread in pristine condition for as long as it takes to eat them with an internal frame...heh...
Young Gun
12-09-2009, 23:00
Im not an expert on packs period but from what I do know external packs are a bit heavier and harder to carry on rough terrain where as internal frames are lighter per say and distribute the weight of your pack closer to you hips which makes it easier to carry External frames are very rigid internal frames are supportive but flexible its a classical debate you should try both and see what works for you my opinion of course would be to start with internal frame because of variety but like I said try them both
Okie Dokie
12-09-2009, 23:43
I agree, and hope my post didn't mislead you in any way...whatever feels best for you is what you should go with...just saying I've used both external frames and internal frames on long-distance hikes and to me there seemed to be little difference...you'll get used to whatever you carry and be fine...
I've found external frames more stable and internal frames more comfortable. As with most things though it's more preference than anything. I argue that my BA pad is more comfortable than my buddy hometown's prolite, but he argues differently so...
CrumbSnatcher
12-09-2009, 23:59
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ozarkman
12-10-2009, 00:09
Thanks for your posts. I guess I will just try a internal and see for myself! Thanks!
gravy4601
12-10-2009, 01:00
maybe try an intenal frame with the external frame airflow i use the atmos 65L pack to keep the airflow on my back like an external and the stabelity of the internal but go with what works best for you some of my friends swear by external others swear by internal
ozarkman
12-10-2009, 01:11
that is an idea....my main purpose for the external is the air flow! Thanks!
generoll
12-10-2009, 09:34
I've been using internals for years, but just ordered an external. The internals tend to ride lower and closer, making them more stable on rough terrain and easier to get under blowdowns. The externals provide better airflow over your back, but can be a bit top heavy since your load rides higher.
I'd say the suspension is more important then internal or external. Get your sales person to load your pack with some sandbags and walk around the store a bit. Or better yet, see if you can rent or borrow a pack for a weekend.
generoll is right - try both out. If possible, for more than 15 minutes in the store. In general, internals are lighter, more stable, and more expensive. Externals are cheaper and can carry heavier loads more comfortably. The comfort factor depends on you and the individual pack, however. Some externals might be much more uncomfortable than some internals. Another factor is capacity - internals are more limited, so take all your gear to the outfitter's when trying on packs. I used a vintage Kelty Tioga on my thru in '06, and it did fine. I'm now breaking in an Osprey Aether 70, and so far I love it, although it's not that much lighter than the Kelty. Good luck.
paintplongo
12-10-2009, 10:54
I've been using internals for years, but just ordered an external. The internals tend to ride lower and closer, making them more stable on rough terrain and easier to get under blowdowns. The externals provide better airflow over your back, but can be a bit top heavy since your load rides higher.
I'd say the suspension is more important then internal or external. Get your sales person to load your pack with some sandbags and walk around the store a bit. Or better yet, see if you can rent or borrow a pack for a weekend.
This man knows what he's talking about^. Exactly what I would have said.
Tuckahoe
12-10-2009, 11:42
As has already been stated, your choice in backpacks will come down to personal preference. When I was a teen, I used an external frame pack and that was pretty much the only choice; internals were pretty new and at the time I took them to be nothing more than a silly fad.
When I determined that I was going to return to backpacking I sought the advice of more recently experienced backpackers on the issues of packs these days. I was inclined towards external frames as that is what I knew, but I allowed myself to check out different internal frames as well and I ended up buying a North Face Terra 60 pack.
The pack is quality made and it did fit well. But what I found, as I loaded it and did a couple practice hikes and finally hit the trail, is that the load sat way too low for my comfort. The highest point of the load was about the shoulders, and the lowest point was for me, too far below my waist. It always felt like my pack was pulling and dragging me down and I felt like I was being beaten by what I thought was a moderate load. There were not as many stable attaching points for gear such as tents and sleeping pads and what attaching points there were, were on the pack itself. The best attaching point for the tent was to the loops attached at the base of the pack. The result was instead of a stable attachment, I had the tent bouncing at my butt.
I felt like I gave the internal frame a fair try (and some may say I should probably try out some others), and I went back for what I felt I should have gotten the first time, an external frame. I bought a Kelty Trekker 3950 and I could not be happier. I feel that it is much more stable and picks the load up better and distributes the weight and pressure much better. The load is above my shoulder and the lowest part of the load is about and above my waist. To me, the biggest benefit is the strength and sturdiness of the frame itself. Everything is firmly attached to the frame and all you have to do is carry the frame. I don’t have tents and pads awkwardly attached, as they are firmly attached to the frame and not the pack.
I no longer think that internals frames are a fad, they have their place and many, many hikers are pleased with them. But externals are for me and I am happiest with the external. Folks will tell you that all the latest development has gone into the internals and that is probably true. But then again, it’s kind of hard to keep developing the external, when it’s pretty much already been there for the last many decades.
Enough of my rambling though, and has already been said, it is a matter of personal preference and comfort. Check out and try out both. See if it is possible to actually rent a pack and hike with it a couple days for the best evaluation. That would be much better than just some sand bags in the store.
Internal Pros:
- more choice
- more body hugging (stable)
- Some GREAT cottage industry manufacturers
- Warmer in cold weather
- Generally lighter
External Pros:
- cooler in summer
- comfortably carry more weight
- more versatile, can lash odd shaped things onto the frame without destroying carrying comfort
- stands up and open by itself, easier to pack
- when set down on wet, soggy ground the packbag remains off the ground and dry
- makes a great lunch time seat or backrest, superior to an internal
All that being said, I now carry my ULA P2 and am 100% happy with it. The external is too tempting to fill it up and carry way more weight than needed. Totally a personal choice, either will work fine. As Okie Dokie said, you will get used to (and attached to) whatever you choose.
I purchased a external pack primarily for cooling as I live in NC and most of my hiking will be done in the hot summer. I love the Kelty trekker 3950. However I don't believe I need such a large pack for week long hikes on the AT. So If I was buying a pack again I would look at smaller internals.
If you want to buy an external pack just to try it out check out craigslist. I have seem some Kelty's on there as low as 25.00. Cheap investment for something you may like. If not donate it to the Boy Scouts
I recently purchased a granite gear nimbus meridian internal frame pack I was just looking for sum feedback from fellow hikers as to wat u thought about this pack?
I prefer an external verses internal! I am old school i guess but a external just feels better and more stable. Thats just the way I look at it. Also to me and my experience in hiking and military, externals do better. Also more ways to customize what you want out of your pack. Meaning you can put your sleeping mat easier where you want, or your sleeping bag. Just an honest opinion.
mister krabs
12-10-2009, 15:22
I purchased a external pack primarily for cooling as I live in NC and most of my hiking will be done in the hot summer. I love the Kelty trekker 3950. However I don't believe I need such a large pack for week long hikes on the AT. So If I was buying a pack again I would look at smaller internals.
I'd like to find a reasonably priced smaller external too. It would be nice if they made true externals designed for a 35 lb weight limit. I've tried on the hybrid types by kelty and osprey, but they didn't fit right.
Anyone know if the kelty yukon 3000 has a full sized frame akin to the trekker? I think the yukon 2900 has a smaller frame.
CrumbSnatcher
12-10-2009, 16:51
I prefer an external verses internal! I am old school i guess but a external just feels better and more stable. Thats just the way I look at it. Also to me and my experience in hiking and military, externals do better. Also more ways to customize what you want out of your pack. Meaning you can put your sleeping mat easier where you want, or your sleeping bag. Just an honest opinion.
i agree completely,to me the externals are very stable, cool on the back,i can pack up in 10 minutes organize quickwith all the external pockets. and the weight rides better. everybodys different just find what you like. i sold a ula pack recently it rode like crap just walking down the bike trail. my external rides great TO ME. thats all that matters. the only way to make sure, is to try both types of packs. you can get great advice hear on WB but some gear,especially packs & shoes you should go try it on at the outfitter, borrow one or whatever.
I love my super tioga 4900. I also loved my Bozeman Terraplane. Both packs were similar in weight. I do not do a lot of off trail bushwhacking - so I always varry the external. One thing I love is that my bakc does not get all sweaty - and that is a real plus in the winter, and nice in the summer. I also love the external pockets and ease of access. But the most important issue is... how does the pack carry? For me it is absolutely critical to not "feel" the pack - whether its 25 or 65 pounds. You will always feel the weight, but you don have to feel the pack. So when I load up with mega liters of water for a dry camp and dry ridge hike the next day I can just secure it in the pack and walk-on.
When you get your pack be sure and monkey around with the weight distribtution. I have mine spread out to my liking and unlike the recommended arrangement for externals (heavy items on top for men) I like to have my weight more centered and always close to the body.
I also had a ULA pack (crumb's reference). I liked it and thought it carried pretty well - but it was not capable of carrying much weight. The Golite Jam2 was nice - with less than 25 pounds. I had a Lowe, but it sucked. Osprey was hard to pack because of the shape and it carried like a sack of rocks. I had a Camptrails external and it was bomber, heavy and hard to get a good ride. Tipi Walter loves his Mystery Ranch - and for good reason - I would have one if it were'nt for the cost. There are lots of good packs out there - but in my opinion the only good externals available nowadays are only available on gear swaps, ebay, and craigslist. I hope you get the one that you like the first try - if not theres Gear Swap and try again.
JoshStover
12-10-2009, 21:11
You honestly didnt like your Osprey pack? Might I ask which pack it was? I love my Aether. I was always an External guy until I tried out the Aether. I think it is safe to say that I wont be going back to the External anytime soon. My external was always alot heavier too. I think it was alll the external pockets. I think I felt like I had to put stuff in all the pockets and that all adds up... To each his own but I havent heard to many people say they didnt care for their Osprey pack...
Tuckahoe
12-10-2009, 21:19
YES!! with the external there is a lot of space. Nice difference between the Terra 60 and the Trekker 3950. And its really nice to know that I have that extra space without having to use it.
Two very recent comments on the Osprey Exos 58. The first from a very experienced walker and a prolific gear tester, he raves on about it. On a different forum another guy that I know has several packs called the Exos 58 his worst purchase for the year. Of course they are both right. It works for one not for the other...
Franco
BTW, I used the Aether 60, liked that (apart from the squeak) but prefer the ULA Circuit. Neither are that good (for me...) over about 12-13kg (26-28lbs)
XCskiNYC
12-12-2009, 01:05
I recently purchased a granite gear nimbus meridian internal frame pack I was just looking for sum feedback from fellow hikers as to wat u thought about this pack?
It's a well designed pack. Very good suspension (the combination of the hip-belt, shoulder straps, sternum strap, and back padding). A little tight for more than a weekend (3,800 cubic inches) if you are using standard, not UL, gear. But it does have straps on the top to hold down a sleeping pad or a tent. You could also probably hang gear from the two ice-axe loops on the lower back of the pack but it would have been nicer if they'd put on a full set of straps as on the top lid.
For some reason the manufacturer gives the pack a weight of 3#8 while, in fact, the pack weighs 4 even.