View Full Version : The North Face files lawsuit against parody
MintakaCat
12-14-2009, 20:25
The North Face files lawsuit against parody
The Associated Press
ST. LOUIS — The North Face Apparel Corp. is suing a small suburban St. Louis-area company called The South Butt and the teenager who started it.
The lawsuit filed last week in federal court in St. Louis seeks unspecified damages and asks the court to prohibit The South Butt from marketing and selling its parody product line.
The North Face says it does not comment on pending litigation.
The South Butt's attorney, Albert Watkins, says the company was started by 18-year-old Jimmy Winkelmann to help pay for college. It puts out products with the tag line "Never Stop Relaxing," a parody of The North Face line, "Never Stop Exploring."
The parody company sells T-shirts, fleece jackets and sweatshirts on its Web site.
___
On the Net:
The South Butt: http://www.thesouthbutt.com
The North Face: http://www.thenorthface.com
Funny that, considering that TNF is the most copied brand (in Kathmandu I even found a shop that sold TNF labels, many sizes available, large quantities. However could not find a genuine TNF item)
So rather than pursuing the makers of those cheap copies they want to shut down a guy with a sense of humour..
Franco
Two Tents
12-14-2009, 22:01
It's a parody for crying out loud! Nobody is going to be bummed out when 'they suddenly,after spending good money, realizes that they mistakenly have been duped and bought a fake'. Man, no wonder why the rest of the world hates the U.S.
The first North Face product I purchased, I immediately thought where is that label... ?
and, the North Face ..of what?
the North Face ..of what?
Good question..
Most think that it had to do with the North Face of the Eiger (that is the tough side) however it was about a generic North Face of a mountain since in the Northern Hemisphere that is the weather side.
Franco
From the Franco useless info archives
Two Tents
12-14-2009, 22:23
Life is good. They had a parody done of them and didn't whine-- Life is crap.
timebreaks
12-14-2009, 23:47
the North Face ..of what?
The logo is based on Half Dome, IIRC.
gunner76
12-14-2009, 23:58
I must admint that the North Face did not come to mind when I first looked at their product logo and I have been using/owned North Face since the 70's. I think I know what my wife is getting for XMas.
Feral Bill
12-15-2009, 00:15
Nice of TNF to give this fellow the publicity. Probably increase sales dramatically.
My view too. Still we should buy up his stock, they could be collectors items soon .
(collectors item :stuff you flog on E Bay)
Franco
BTW, this was on The Goat/Backcountry .com some time ago
http://thegoat.backcountry.com/2009/10/02/the-north-face-vs-the-south-butt/ (http://thegoat.backcountry.com/2009/10/02/the-north-face-vs-the-south-butt/)
sasquatch2014
12-15-2009, 07:48
This is another case of a large corporation pressing a nuisance suit to try and kill any possible competition out there. They will just use the small stable of lawyers they have on staff to burry the kid in court and suck him dry if he tries to fight this the old way.
The same thing happened to a small brewery up in VT vs the Monster Energy drink company but he decided enough of the old way of doing stuff and fought them through the web they have pulled their lawsuit the last that I heard. This guy should put it out to the web as well and put the pressure on NF to back the hell of and try and make better more useful products to gain back market share rather than kill competition.
For the thing on the brewery check this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbG_woqXTeg
white_russian
12-15-2009, 08:25
They will just use the small stable of lawyers they have on staff to bury the kid in court and suck him dry if he tries to fight this the old way.
He has got a family friend representing him for cheap. From The Goat article
Winkelmann’s attorney Albert Watkins, who plays squash with his client’s father and traded his services for a really good bottle of burgundy, responded to LaVine with a Sept. 10 letter in which he not only declined the company’s request but told it that The South Butt should be considered flattery.
bulldog49
12-15-2009, 09:56
It's a parody for crying out loud! Nobody is going to be bummed out when 'they suddenly,after spending good money, realizes that they mistakenly have been duped and bought a fake'. Man, no wonder why the rest of the world hates the U.S.
"First, we kill all the lawyers." William Shakespeare :banana
Two Speed
12-15-2009, 10:52
TNF does appear to be humor impaired. :cool:
if someone took nike's logo and flipped it upside down and started selling almost identical products they too would absolutely take them to court. It might be a parody but it's a parody for profit not for entertainment. I think thats where the problem is.
Two Tents
12-15-2009, 11:38
if someone took nike's logo and flipped it upside down and started selling almost identical products they too would absolutely take them to court. It might be a parody but it's a parody for profit not for entertainment. I think thats where the problem is.
I agree somewhat with you on that. But its not an exact upsidedown logo. I don't think TNF really has a chance in front of the lady with the blind fold and the scales on this one.
MintakaCat
12-15-2009, 12:20
I don't think TNF really has a chance in front of the lady with the blind fold and the scales on this one.
There was a case here in Atlanta many years ago where a restaurant had a sign that looked like an upsidedown version of McDonald's golden arches. McDonalds won that case.
if someone took nike's logo and flipped it upside down and started selling almost identical products they too would absolutely take them to court. It might be a parody but it's a parody for profit not for entertainment. I think thats where the problem is.
Profit is irrelevant. Trademark protections exist to protect the consumer, not the producer. TNF will have a hard time proving that "the south butt" is fooling people into thinking they are buying 'the north face" merchandise.
A flipped logo is still the same logo.
Two Speed
12-15-2009, 12:53
There was a case here in Atlanta many years ago where a restaurant had a sign that looked like an upsidedown version of McDonald's golden arches. McDonalds won that case.Oh yeah, Wency's. How anyone could confuse that joint for a McDonald's is beyond me. Used car lot now. Lots better as a cheap nasty Chinese joint IMHO.
Two Tents
12-15-2009, 12:53
I'm just sayin it is not the same. TNF has three elements to its logo. TSB has two. I don't see how you can have a shape or line or curve in a logo then expect not never, not no how, that anybody else can use you curve or partial symbol in any form. A check type mark is not off limits, but an identical Nike check would be. I'm sure there are violations of a circle or some other geometric shape but I don't see how any can have a monopoly on an abstract form. I guess what I'm trying to say is the logo, in question, is the same thing only different so I don't see the problem.
sbennett
12-15-2009, 13:04
if someone took nike's logo and flipped it upside down and started selling almost identical products they too would absolutely take them to court. It might be a parody but it's a parody for profit not for entertainment. I think thats where the problem is.
I think this is dead on. If the kid didn't try and sell products that look almost like TNF products he wouldn't have this problem.
We can get into semantics about the upside down curve and 3 curves versus 2 but the logo is pretty similar. Look at the jackets he's selling; he didn't even bother to change the font on the stitching.
Ladytrekker
12-15-2009, 13:06
I think that this is tons of free advertising for South Butt this could really catapult them if they do not lose the lawsuit. But this is suppose to be the land of opportunity and free speech.
i think north face is a bunch of whiny pansies.
sasquatch2014
12-15-2009, 14:58
I agree somewhat with you on that. But its not an exact upsidedown logo. I don't think TNF really has a chance in front of the lady with the blind fold and the scales on this one.
except now and days the scales seem to be used more to weight who has the more well paid lawyers. FTS!
ChinMusic
12-15-2009, 15:24
White Blaze should sue the Black Disguise website......
I can't stand the North face, I have banished all forms of the NF from my wardrobe. I find it ubiquitous and extremely cliche. I enjoy calling out my friends when they are all standing around wearing the same thing and as the creator the "the south butt" would say they are not out climbing mountains. I think this guy's idea is awesome and the NF has no grounds for a lawsuit. They are just trying to intimidate him. It is the north face of el capitan or half dome, can't remember
They've got the trademark law nailed down, there's nothing about the logo that is illegal
Jester2000
12-15-2009, 15:55
I suspect that for The North Face to win a trademark violation case, they will have to prove that a reasonable person could look at the South Butt logo and confuse it for a North Face item. Parody is protected, so they're also probably going to have to prove that the motivation behind the design was to confuse.
It's not just an upside down version of the same logo, particularly because of the words involved. It can be argued that the part of their logo flipped upside down looks like a butt, and the very use of the word "butt" makes it clear that the products are not from TNF (as opposed to, say, calling the company "The South Face," which could be construed as attempting to cause confusion rather than as an attempt at parody). If you can look at a logo that says "The South Butt" and confuse it for a North Face product, regardless of the rest of the logo design, you don't fall into the category of a reasonable person.
Whether or not he's making money from parody may motivate the filing of a suit, but has nothing to do with the outcome of the case.
Two Tents
12-15-2009, 16:00
Nice explanation Jester. I agree totally.
Pardoy is a form of protest. As is in this case. Just like silence is a form of consent.
Copyright, Patent, Trademarks, etal was one of the hardest subjects to grasp in law school. The standards for each are so confusing with so many exceptions it was mind-numbing. But after a little bit of research, this is what I have come up with. The North Face will likely win the case due the fact that the South Butt is selling the exact same merchandise that TNF is. If for example, South Butt was selling clothes for dogs (as was the case with Chewy Vuitton's parody of the famous fashion house) than the trademark of SouthButt could be seen as a parody. However, since SouthButt is selling the same exact merch as TNF there is no parody. It is simply abusing TNF's trademark as a means to compete with TNF. This is what I get out of it.
Kid is funny, though. Gotta give him credit for Chutzpah.
Trail Trooper
12-15-2009, 21:55
Dude Is Smoking Crack Charging Prices Like That
XCskiNYC
12-15-2009, 23:28
It's not surprising that TNF is going after this. Their logo IS their product. People will pay more for a down jacket with the NF logo than they'd pay for an identical jacket (or maybe even a jacket of superior quality) with no logo. Human beings have an amazing compulsion to imitate, very exactly, the behavior of their fellow humans.
That said, the kid should name his company The South Butte.
Jack Tarlin
12-16-2009, 13:55
I think the most noteworthy thing about this story is that the guy who started the new company is only 18.
I'd say this kid's got a great future.
Jester2000
12-16-2009, 14:34
I think the most noteworthy thing about this story is that the guy who started the new company is only 18.
I'd say this kid's got a great future.
As long as he doesn't try to steal Billville Safety Research's logo, that is.
Johnny Thunder
12-16-2009, 14:43
Yeah I mean...North Face should probably offer him a job....or, Vanity Fair. Whomever. It's so confusing.
Sue for ownership? Sue for ownership of this kid's creative genius.
mbrameld
12-16-2009, 17:11
Don't know if it's related but I saw a few guys in Afghanistan that had patches that looked like TNF logo but instead of saying
THE
NORTH
FACE
they said
HEY
*****
FACE
Made me chuckle.
Johnny Thunder
12-16-2009, 17:48
I still maintain that I was the first kool kid to remove the stitching so's it said:
The
O
Face
hahahahahhaahha
The Solemates
12-16-2009, 17:48
Don't know if it's related but I saw a few guys in Afghanistan that had patches that looked like TNF logo but instead of saying
THE
NORTH
FACE
they said
HEY
*****
FACE
Made me chuckle.
TNF should sue the US govt then :rolleyes:
Check out this video. For me, I will not buy another North Face Product until they develop a sense of humor. Congratulations to The South Butt!!!
http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091222/NEWS05/91211005
Check out this video. For me, I will not buy another North Face Product until they develop a sense of humor. Congratulations to The South Butt!!!
http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091222/NEWS05/91211005
wouldn't buy their overpriced crap anyway. bunch of yuppie dickheads.
JoshStover
12-22-2009, 21:19
I suspect that for The North Face to win a trademark violation case, they will have to prove that a reasonable person could look at the South Butt logo and confuse it for a North Face item. Parody is protected, so they're also probably going to have to prove that the motivation behind the design was to confuse.
It's not just an upside down version of the same logo, particularly because of the words involved. It can be argued that the part of their logo flipped upside down looks like a butt, and the very use of the word "butt" makes it clear that the products are not from TNF (as opposed to, say, calling the company "The South Face," which could be construed as attempting to cause confusion rather than as an attempt at parody). If you can look at a logo that says "The South Butt" and confuse it for a North Face product, regardless of the rest of the logo design, you don't fall into the category of a reasonable person.
Whether or not he's making money from parody may motivate the filing of a suit, but has nothing to do with the outcome of the case.
My thoughts exactly!
I to agree that this kid will have a bright future if TNF doesnt ruin him...
wrongway_08
12-23-2009, 18:16
I stop buy'n north face crap years ago. Shame they don't spend the time and money on making better stuff instead of making me think even less of them by pulling this crap.
I have one TNF item, a fleece vest. If TSB had a replacement for sale, I would burn the TNF one & buy from TSB. The name is different, as is the logo! Grow up North Face. I'm so glad I got my TNF from Goodwill. Never again will I buy TNF!
On a similar track: I won't buy Kodak products since they sued Paul Simon for, wait for it: Singing Kodachrome's Praises!! "It gives such nice bright colors!" :confused:
I could understand it if he sung "The colors look like s***! " :p
Yes, a couple of good examples for that "How to lose the plot" presentation...
(all executives required to attend)
Franco
BTW, even before Kodak forced that "Kodachrome is a Trade Mark of Kodak inc" mention on the record sleeve, somehow I realised that Kodachrome had something to do with Kodak and not Fuji, Agfa or Sakura. But I am clever that way...
Cookerhiker
12-23-2009, 22:22
......On a similar track: I won't buy Kodak products since they sued Paul Simon for, wait for it: Singing Kodachrome's Praises!! "It gives such nice bright colors!" :confused:
I could understand it if he sung "The colors look like s***! " :p
Can't understand that - it was free advertising for Kodak. They should have paid Paul Simon, not sued him. Didn't that same song mention Nikon ("I got a Niiii-kon camera, Mamma don't take my kodachrome away..")? Did Nikon also sue?
Re. TNF, never owned one of their products, never will.
malowitz
01-12-2010, 21:30
Here is South Butt's reply - as submitted to the court. I appreciate the humor they're keeping up.
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/files/southbuttreply.pdf
Doooglas
01-14-2010, 10:33
Your tax dollars at work.
Idiot company,Idiot plaintiff,Idiot judge,
Uniquely Amurkin.
Here is South Butt's reply - as submitted to the court. I appreciate the humor they're keeping up.
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/files/southbuttreply.pdf
Great find, Malowitz! Just a fantastic read.
From a legal perspective, though, it seems kinda thin. I do like how the filing fleshes out the reason behind the parody--that most TNF wearers only wear TNF clothes for the status and not for outdoor recreation. Adds a layer to the parody.
The unclean hands argument is shaky, though. SouthButt is arguing that by suing TNF has contributed to the success of SouthButt. While it may be true that the suit has upped SouthButt's recognition, filing a legitimate lawsuit can't be considered under the "unclean hands" doctrine or it would be a defense to nearly every lawsuit of this sort.
Funny stuff, tho. Not as funny as the filing in the Glenn Beck suit, but pretty close.
Jester2000
01-15-2010, 15:08
The unclean hands argument is shaky, though. SouthButt is arguing that by suing TNF has contributed to the success of SouthButt. While it may be true that the suit has upped SouthButt's recognition, filing a legitimate lawsuit can't be considered under the "unclean hands" doctrine or it would be a defense to nearly every lawsuit of this sort.
I was wondering about that. It seemed to me that the unclean hands doctrine would only apply to actions taken before the filing of the lawsuit. I suspect they knew that, and only put that in there to have making fun of TNF for creating publicity for SouthButt on record.
Here is South Butt's reply - as submitted to the court. I appreciate the humor they're keeping up.
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/files/southbuttreply.pdf
Great read. Would love to be on that jury. :D
I remember the first North Face pants I purchased ...someone said, "Where is the North Face"?
It was years before I purchased a North Face shirt.
The North Face korporate couldn't figure out the joke?
Your tax dollars at work.
Idiot company,Idiot plaintiff,Idiot judge,
Uniquely Amurkin....only totalitarian countries do not have humor.