Bivi Weight??

[SunnyWalker]

weight you would put up with for a Bivi bag? 2 lbs? Less? I am looking at Bivis and like the USMC all Gore-Tex bag I can get for new at a store here in Amarillo for $79.00 But i am wondering, I know there probably bivis under two lbs, right? Under 1 lb? Any good? Waterproof? Thanks one and all. :sun

[SunnyWalker]

The USMC might be a bit over 2 lbs. But not more than 3. I think.

[Two Tents]

Are you using a tarp or poncho in combination with the bivy? If so then check out http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Bivy.html

[SunnyWalker]

Yeah, I am thinking of using a bivi with a poncho/tarp or tarp.
-Chaplain

[Montana AT05]

My bivy weights 7 oz. It's from backpackinglight.com. It's good material, but the sticking could use some work.

The titanium goat bivys look good, I've seen them on trail but never used one.

Also, consider mountain laurel design products.

To me, a bivy that weights 1 lb or more makes no sense. I'd rather carry a large bug net + tarp or even a tent when you get to that weight.

[SunnyWalker]

Thanks Montana, but what about that its all gore Tex? I could use a poncho as the tarp with a down bag. Would that all balance out? And this is for the CDT. To me the bivi/tarp or poncho is ideal. The issue is what bivi. This seems like a good buy and would keep me warm and dry, etc., etc.

[Dogwood]

I agree w/ Montana. I can't see why I would haul a bivy that weighs 2 lbs(even over 1 1/2 lbs) when I can have a whole 1 man 3 season tent that weighs less or much the same as that.

I have a 7 oz MLD Momentum bivy in the long and wider version, right side zip down to the hip, and bug net over my face. Love it!

I'll probably be seeing you on the CDT Chaplain. I'm going w/ that 7 oz water-resistant MLD Momentum top bivy and a 7 oz MLD Spinnaker tarp for the CDT this yr. Will switch out to a warmer bag as I think I need to and possibly throw in a Cocoon liner if I'm being a gram counting weenie.

If wt and price is a concern you should hold off until you have looked at Titanium Goat's Ptarmagin bivy for around $100 and the Integral Designs and Black Diamond bivies at ProLite. The last time I looked ProLite had some steep and cheap quality made bivies in wts under 22 ozs!

Because you might use a bivy in really cold temps.(under 20*) w/ a down bag(condensation) and on the AT you might experience several days of rain I would elect to get the most breathable bivy you can get. If you are also seeking a waterproof bivy in that bivy equation nothing is more breathable and fully waterproof than Event. Gore Tex, in any of its versions that I know about, simply dont have the breathability and complete waterproofness that EVent has.

[mweinstone]

bivis arent for you. get off the bivi trip. dude, your all bivied out. yo,...bivi called, you dont want to sleep in one it said. bivis,...ha!ha!ha!ha!
what did the bivi say to the hiker?
duh! you wanna sleep in me?!
how many bivies does it take to change a light bulb? the fewer the better. whos affraid of the big bad bivi? me! they suck. why not just sleep standing up? whos bivi is famouse for roomieness? no ones.

[Dogwood]

Matty, stop w/ the flashbacks! It's only a bivy!

[bigcranky]

You really don't need a Goretex bivy for anything other than winter mountaineering. My partner used one for a couple of winter hikes, and he was soaked from perspiration.

If you have a tarp, any basic breathable (non-waterproof) bivy is great. You don't need waterproof under the tarp. Splash resistant and bug proof is fine. My homemade version is 8 ounces (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15028&catid=member&imageuser=266), but that includes a full perimeter zipper for ease of entry and exit. The top fabric (Momentum .90) is very water resistant but breathable, and I've never had any condensation inside. The mesh at the chest and head helps a lot with ventilation, of course.

The nice thing about a tarp/bivy combo is the versatility. I can use both in bad weather, or just the bivy out under the stars or in a shelter (keeps the mice and bugs off.) I switch to a hammock on solo summer hikes, but I like the tarp/bivy for most cold weather hiking.

Finally, compare the weight of that Goretext military bivy with a Tarptent Rainbow, (http://www.tarptent.com/rainbow.html) and see how much more space and protection you get for exactly the same (or maybe less) weight.

[skinewmexico]

Ti Goat is awesome.

[SunnyWalker]

OK. Thanks you bivi guys. I will forgoe the USMC Bivi at 2 plus lbs. I will stick to the lighter versions, thank you Dogwood, and BigandCranky. One question though, I thought Goretex was the dream fabric and breathable sure, but waterproof too. I thought?

[skinewmexico]

I've never used any gore-tex that was very breathable. Marketing.

[Tinker]

I once again typed up a lengthy post on the design, manufacture, and application of Gore-Tex and other so-called "waterproof/breathable" fabrics and apparantly ran out of time and got a message that I was not logged in (which I WAS). Anyway, neither Gore-Tex or any of the other WP/B fabrics are very breathable, and, if they aren't cared for properly (check Gore's website, among others), won't remain waterproof for long, either.
I'm currently testing the latest "Holy Grail" of WP/B fabrics, eVent, in the REI Shuksan parka. So far I'm more impressed with its DWR than its breathability (which is better than any Gore product I've used to date). Time will tell whether it holds up or not.

[bigcranky]

One question though, I thought Goretex was the dream fabric and breathable sure, but waterproof too. I thought?

I think "dream fabric" is marketing hype. Sorry.

[brooklynkayak]

You really don't need a Goretex bivy for anything other than winter mountaineering

And never for under a tarp. There are many companies making biys in the 5 to 7 oz range that are more breathable, water repellent, but aren't totally waterproof, You don't need waterproof under a tap.

Check out Oware, Six Moon Designs, Ti-Goat, Mountain Laurel and many others. I lean towards the bivys with big bug nets as they should be much more livable for three season use, unless you do a lot of winter camping.

Even just a bug bivy will repell most splash and wind blown rain.

[mweinstone]

black diamond winter bivi is the only bivi. ive had two. gave one to wonder. bivis are for sleeping sitting up on a ledge or in the death zone on everest pinned down unexspectedly. dont kid yourselves. my black diamond megamid lite is as light as a bivi and is a palace.you just dont understand how much nicer it is in my tent. no floor. never pitched to the ground. and never a ground cloth. just my eq coated waterproof 900 fill down bag on the wet grass or slushy snow. nary a concern. never a splash. no wind can topple me. no uneven ground or lack of space stops me. no water or condensation concerns. and after 30 years in these tents, bugs i laugh at. go ahead, sleep in a bag. ha!

[Phreak]

I just finished making a bivy. Weighs 7.2 ounces.

[George]

I have/ use 4 bivies from 7 oz to 2.5 lb , just finished a month section NY- WV using the heaviest a goretex outdoor research. I shoot for shelters but end up camping a lot when I run out of light. I spent some nights in steady rain, once waking with my feet in 2 in water + never soaked my sleeping bag, for me, on this trip it was the right option better than a light tent or light bivy for the conditions expected + encountered

[Montana AT05]

Goretex? Don't like it myself. It is good for a full length winter coat, but apart from that, no thanks.

For rain gear I use cheaper and much more comfortable Dri-Ducks.

For water/wind repellant/resistant fabric, I look for Pertex (much lighter and more breathable than goretex).

Goretex to me = sweat-like-a-dog

Full sized moutaineer boot with goretex lining? Sure, but not for a bivy or hiking shoe or clothes.

And if you're not thinking about real cold weather hiking, consider a hammock tent. Comes with a tarp usually (or you can buy one seperately) and the if you don't string the hammock up, it can act as a bivy. I love mah hammock. I use a Hennesey Hammock, but there have been newer manufacturers of late who apparently make good stuff too.

On the CDT, a tarp, lightweight bivy or bugnet will suffice. I base that on my trips here in Montana...I've never hiked the CDT per se.

[FamilyGuy]

You don't need waterproof under a tap.

You sure? Tarp no, Tap maybe.;)

[brooklynkayak]

You sure? Tarp no, Tap maybe.;)

:-? I guess you would need a waterproof bivy under a tap, now that I think of it.

[skinewmexico]

Equinox makes a cheap, 7 oz bivy also.

[Mags]

I agree w/ Montana. I can't see why I would haul a bivy that weighs 2 lbs(even over 1 1/2 lbs) when I can have a whole 1 man 3 season tent that weighs less or much the same as that.



Hi Chaplain..those are my thoughts as well (just noticed your e-mail. :D)

A bivy for an UL setup is more of sleeping bag cover than anything...

GTX is great for high, cold, winter conditions. Not so much for normal three-season backpacking.

An 8oz tarp and a lightweight tarp will work well. Heck, I just used an 8x10 tarp without a bivy did quite well.

Good luck!

[SunnyWalker]

OK. I see it. I guess I got carried away with the opportunity to make get a sale. So I agree, why load myself down with a "heavy" bivi (2.3 lbs) and then have to try to balace it out (probably cannot). When i could just go with a bivi for under a lb or at least have that weight? Thanks one and all. Again, this is for use on CDT.

[SunnyWalker]

I meant to say, "half that weight"?

[SunnyWalker]

I got a tent(s). I got a HH. I don't have a tarp or bivi. I feel drawn to the simplicity and lightweight advantages of the bivi and tarp/poncho. So far on this thread the only commerical bivi mentioned that might be good is the: Black Diamond winter Bivi. Any others?

[Miner]

So far on this thread the only commerical bivi mentioned that might be good is the: Black Diamond winter Bivi. Any others?

If you want good lightweight bivies, check out the cottage manufacturers Moutain Laurel Designs, Oware USA, Titanium Goat (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some). They all make good products. I currently use a tarp and bivy from MLD and I use to have a bivy from Ti.Goat that was good.

[JAK]

The Army Surplus Gortex Bivies weigh 2 pounds.
They are 30" x 70", plus an extra flap on one side.

They are heavy, but they really are waterproof AND breathable.
I've gone to bed with a damp bag and woken with a dry bag.

I've been thinking about using the material to make a rain cape / bivy.

[brooklynkayak]

I have/ use 4 bivies from 7 oz to 2.5 lb , just finished a month section NY- WV using the heaviest a goretex outdoor research.

I think your talking about without a tarp. Using a tarp would allow you to use a 6 oz highly breathable bivy in the worst conditions. An ultralight tarp and bivy can be more livable, flexible and lighter than a goretex bivy.

My solo bivy/tarp combination is weighs around 16oz. If I was going to not bring the tarp, I'd have to carry a less breathable waterproof bivy weighing more than 2 lbs.

[brooklynkayak]

Another note, Ultralight bivys like those made by Oware, SMD, MLD, TiGoat,... are very comfortable and breathable. They do add some warmth and so you may want to use them open as a ground cloth in hot summer weather.

Unlike the mountaineering bivys which are stifling in anything but winter weather.

[leaftye]

My military goretex bivy is 2.3 lbs. I've been using it this winter. Every morning I wake up with ice on the inside and outside...usually more on the inside. Part of this is because it doesn't breathe very well, but is mostly because my sweat vaper condenses when it hits the outer shell. I guess this is better than having it condensing and freezing inside my sleeping bag, but it still leaves me with a heavy bivy to lug around until I take the time to dry it later in the day. A military bivy is also very bulky. The only time I can justify the weight and bulk is when it's my only shelter of any kind.

[Snowleopard]

The ultralight bivys are intended to be used in a tent or under a tarp, not as your only shelter. The top material is usually water repellent, not waterproof.
Bigcranky, nice bivy. Does the momentum cover only half the top like it looks? Nice sewing.

Gardenville on WB has a website with an ultralight, ultracheap bivy. He uses a frogg toggs poncho for the top.
http://ultraliteskunkworks.blogspot.com/2009/05/super-ultra-light-super-ultra-cheap-pt.html

[leaftye]

Yeah, most of the bivies under a pound don't seem to offer full protection on their own. The 2+ pound bivies often can be a shelter all by itself, albeit a rather uncomfortable one in the rain or snow.

[SunnyWalker]

Thanks for the info Miner.

[Dogwood]

..... Using a tarp would allow you to use a 6 oz highly breathable bivy in the worst conditions. An ultralight tarp and bivy can be more livable, flexible and lighter than a goretex bivy. - BrooklynKayak

My sentiments exactly!

..... If I was going to not bring the tarp, I'd have to carry a less breathable waterproof bivy weighing more than 2 lbs. - BrooklynKayak

Yes I would also have to bring a heavier less breathable WP bivy if I knew that heavier rain could be experienced, but then I would start considering other shelter options if heavy rain of longer durations was likely.

NO. There are actually quite a few bivies now available, even from some mainstream manufacturers like Integral Designs, Black Diamond, Mountain Hardware, RAB, (couple of others), etc, that are fully waterproof stand alone bivies that weigh less than 1 1/2 lbs. AND, when you start doing some more research into the UL WP possible to stand alone bivies you can find several to purchase in the SUB 1 lb class. EVent is the best option for a WP bivy material for the widest range of conditions, IMO.

[bigcranky]

The ultralight bivys are intended to be used in a tent or under a tarp, not as your only shelter. The top material is usually water repellent, not waterproof.
Bigcranky, nice bivy. Does the momentum cover only half the top like it looks? Nice sewing.

Thanks for the comment. Yes, the Momentum 90 covers up to mid-chest, the area over the upper chest and head is noseeum mesh. Makes for a lot more ventilation.

My lovely wife Dragonfly did all the sewing. She's quite good at it.

[brooklynkayak]

Hey Dogwood,

Good to know that there are lighter waterproof bivies.
I still prefer the more breathable bivies under a small tarp compared to a standalone bivy.

A combination like my 7 oz bivy and 5 ounce tarp, plus a couple onces for stakes and line is hard to beat.
I do like the simplicity of the waterproof bivy, but having a tarp over me in the more breathable ultralight bivy is more comfortable, especially in bad weather.

[Dogwood]

BrooklynKayak, you look like a cosmonaut in that hat.

[brooklynkayak]

BrooklynKayak, you look like a cosmonaut in that hat.
Here's the whole outfit::o

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_z2SnDYxcXMk/Stn_K5PJhKI/AAAAAAAABvE/OOTaZlE6Y1Q/s720/sany0278.jpg
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/D2zzVKIfrx0fhGLz0zLkkw?feat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/D2zzVKIfrx0fhGLz0zLkkw?feat=directlink)

[bigcranky]

Here's the whole outfit::o


You look like a Hobbit. No offense.... :)

[Dogwood]

LOL. BrooklynKayak, you just ruined my dinner! I would not show that picture to my kids or any potential girlfriends or employers!

What is it? Looks like a skunk jumped on your head or a raven just landed? Get that at a garage sale?

Seriously. Is it a home made DIY down hat? That's some funny arse shart! Best thing about it is that you are willing to show the whole pic. Is that supposed to bring everything into perspective? It didn't! LOL

[brooklynkayak]

LOL. BrooklynKayak, Is that supposed to bring everything into perspective? It didn't! LOL

It's supposed to show how weird it can get on a cold winter morning and you got's to make the coffee:)
You have to wear what you got and the hood on that sleeping bag does look like old and old USSR astronaut hat.

That shot is taken less than an hours drive from Toms River, Herriman State Park, NY, near the AT. You are in Toms River correct?

[JRiker]

like others here, i would only recommend a military bivy like that for COLD weather camping. i'm currently making a bivy for upcoming three season, but love my goretex one right now for the winter. if you want to get a deal on the goretex bivies, they are a lot cheaper on ebay.

[Dogwood]

So, that's what it is. Honestly, I wasn't sure.

I figured your pics looked like NY. Herriman SP has some nice trails and has at least one decent waterfall. Of course, the AT tarvels through it briefly. Do you know that developers wanted the land Herriman SP now inhabits? Mrs. Herriman donated the land so it would not be eveloped and so that everyone could enjoy it in much its original state. She had the foresight to set it aside despite pressure to sell the land.

Even though I grew up mainly in NJ I don't spend much time there anymore. I find myself wanting to travel to other places without so much congestion, cars, highways, development, pollution, and people. There are other places I would much rather be that offer more or should I more accurately say less.

Even after all my ribbing you still had a good attitude. Nice to see that! It's good know we can laugh at ourselves. I know I have much to laugh about just thinking about what I've done or how I've looked. That's why I don't post too many pics! LOL!

[brooklynkayak]

I figured your pics looked like NY. Herriman SP has some nice trails and has at least one decent waterfall. Of course, the AT tarvels through it briefly. Do you know that developers wanted the land Herriman SP now inhabits? Mrs. Herriman donated the land so it would not be eveloped and so that everyone could enjoy it in much its original state. She had the foresight to set it aside despite pressure to sell the land.

Yes, it is quite amazing that 30 miles from NYC there is such a great place to hike. Sections remind me of the rockies of Utah, Wyoming and Montana.

I guess it was quite populated at one time. You can still see some of the old foundations and all the revolution era mines. There is a lot of history there.

I find the part of the AT that goes through there less interesting than some of the other trails, but people do like Bear Mountain and the section where you can see NYC though.

[Egads]

What is with the fascination about bivies? Why would anyone chose to carry a bivy on the AT instead of a tent, hammock, or tarp?

[leaftye]

I don't know about the AT, but some trails have few places nearby to set up a tent, hammock or tarp. At worst, a bivy allows you to plop down on the trail for the night.

[brooklynkayak]

What is with the fascination about bivies? Why would anyone chose to carry a bivy on the AT instead of a tent, hammock, or tarp?

It depends on the type of bivy. An ultralight highly breathable bivy helps keep blowing rain and snow off of your bag if your under a small tarp.
The combination is usually lighter, roomier, takes up less pack space and more flexible than a tent or hammock.


The ultralight bivies are more comfortable than the bivies you are thinking of and only weigh 6 or 7 ounces.

[SunnyWalker]

Thanks Jriker for the advice. I have held off getting the military goretex bivi. After reading the commens and advice here I decided on getting a lightweight one for my thru hike of CDT. Sure are a lot of models to choose from. It'll be fun when I get down to buy one.

[SunnyWalker]

OK one and all, Thanks! I just ordered the REI Minilamist. Thanks again for the advice. I never did purchase the heavier army/military bivi. Thanks again. -Chaplain