Vest vs. Jacket

[jbrecon2]

Hi all, looking for a little more input. It looks like my departure date will be in mid april now. was wondering if a down vest would be enough, it coupled with a light weight fleece? My plan for clothing is....

Patagonia 2 top/bottom
Convertible pants
North Face tka fleece
Ice breaker tee
Marmot precip
ULA rain wrap
mountain hardwear gloves
fleece cap
2 pair bridgedale socks
Down Fleece or vest.....or....synthetic fleece or vest (montbell thermawrap)

any input? my plan would be to send the patagonia and down vest home sometime in may, keeping the fleece longer

[Philip]

Check this out... http://www.campsaver.com/ItemMatrix.asp?Pt=&GroupCode=mtb0063&MatrixType=2 and http://www.campsaver.com/ItemMatrix.asp?GroupCode=mtb0064&MatrixType=1

This is my down insulation layer. The prices are way higher than I paid for mine right now though, so look for a sale.

I mainly use down for when I'm not being active though (at camp or in town) so as to avoid sweating on them (reducing insulating properties). While I'm hiking I like wool, silk, fleece, etc. for insulation.

Here in TX, this Montbell down suit is plenty warm enough for lounging inactive along with a base layer or two in the coldest weather we've got out here. If I'm out in the sticks, I usually put my rain suit on over them to protect them and provide a wind barrier to trap the heat I build up in the down.

[Spokes]

My two cents........Go with a down montbell jacket. Almost every 2009 thru wore one. The numbers should tell you something.

[white_russian]

My two cents........Go with a down montbell jacket. Almost every 2009 thru wore one. The numbers should tell you something.
If everyone jumped off a cliff, does that mean its a good idea?

[Bags4266]

I am on the fence on this one. My feelings are vest. Cause my arms really don't get too cold. And when I get to camp when its cold I do my Bizzz and go to sleep. Vest = less pack volume and less weight. Also gives the warmth needed when putzing around. 2 cents

[Egads]

My two cents........Go with a down montbell jacket. Almost every 2009 thru wore one. The numbers should tell you something.


If everyone jumped off a cliff, does that mean its a good idea?

What a stupid point. MontBell Innerdown Jackets are way softer and warmer than cliffs are :rolleyes:

My 2 cents, get a jacket

[ChinMusic]

I like the Montbell for 3-season. I like something like a Nunatak Skaha Plus for temps below freezing. The Montbell just isn't warm enough for me at camp, near freezing, unless I have a fire. The cold sends me to my tent. The Skaha Plus would be good for an early AT start as it makes you more comfortable at camp and extends the rating of your sleeping bag.

[Anumber1]

The montbell therma-wrap is friggin sweet

[Dogwood]

Jbrecon, your torso clothing line-up is very similar to mine when starting out on 3 SEASON HIKES, like on the AT in mid-late Apr. I like wearing two thinner base layers underneath a vest. I'll typically go with a light to mid wt. merino wool tee, like those made by Icebreaker or Smartwool, next to skin, wear another layer like a merino wool piece like those made by Minus 33 or a synthetic like Patagonia Cap 2 or 3 or rarely a 100 wt micro fleece piece over that, and then my vest, which is something like A Mont Bell synthetic Primaloft Thermawrap or RAB Microlight down vest. Over all that I'd have a rain/wind shell for inclement weather. With this set-up, since I don't have a huge amount of warmth, I very often also elect to carry a UL merino wool/Alpaca beanie and Manzanella Windstopper gloves for vesatility in adding more warmth and protection. And, I like my rain/wind shell to have handpockets for when it's really windy and cold and/or wet with this torso clothing set-up to keep my hands warm.

Why do I opt for the less warm vest? - versatility - because even w/ a down vest I can often hike in it, even if I need to shed a base layer and/or add those UL gloves, beanie, or shell to tweak my core temp. With any of my full down or synthetic jackets I'm rarely going to be able to hike very long in them before heating up. With a full jacket it's pretty much relegated to camp or for prolonged stops. In COLD weather I'l have the full jacket.

[ChinMusic]

Why do I opt for the less warm vest? - versatility - because even w/ a down vest I can often hike in it...
Really? I have hiked with my down vest only to render it totally worthless with sweat.

I now NEVER (well maybe if it got near zero) hike in down. Down, for me, is camp/sleeping clothing.

[Dogwood]

Yeah, really ChinMusic. I can't always hike in a down vest. Sometimes it has to be a lighter wt. synthetic vest. Conditions have to warrant it, but I find if I regulate my pace and find the appropriate combination of clothing layers and accessories that fit the conditions I can hike in a vest either synthetic or down, like the ones I mentioned on 3 season hikes.

The pt. I'm making is that w/ a vest, under the right hiking conditions, and managing my core temp, I now have something in my torso clothing arsenal that isn't just used in camp, when sleeping, or during prolonged stops.

Also, not all vests, whatever they are made from or however they are made, are not made the same way! For example, I find the Pertex Microlight shell of my RAB down vest breathes quite well while some of my other down vests w/ different shells I sweat more easily in. One more thing that I find incredibly important is that I manage my core temp well when hiking w/ a vest. I don't let myself get all sweaty. I don't let myself get to this pt. particularly if it's cold. I do something BEFORE I GET SWEATY. I add/subtract clothing pieces and accessories which I usually keep in outside pockets of my pack or I alter my pace for examples.

[ChinMusic]

I just can't hike in down unless the temps are extreme. Down for me is for camp/sleeping. A vest for hiking would be fine if it is synthetic.

That's just me.

[Tinker]

A jacket will be more useful if you find yourself in a situation where your sleeping bag isn't quite warm enough, and on chilly windy nights you'll appreciate the jacket. The extra warmth of the arms is worth the extra few ounces, imo.
Fwiw, I've switched from down to synthetic fill in all the insulated clothing I use in all but winter conditions. I still use a down bag because I've never gotten one more than slightly damp in over 30 years of hiking.
Outerwear is another story altogether. For some down is worth the weight savings at the risk of possibly getting it soaked. For a weekend I wouldn't be too worried, but on a long hike most of your gear will get damp at one point or another.

[brooklynkayak]

My two cents........Go with a down montbell jacket. Almost every 2009 thru wore one. The numbers should tell you something.

I remember reading about all the hikers who brought down jackets and said they wouldn't do it again as they only wore them in camp. Wearing a down jacket in anything but sub zero weather while your active can get hot and that will cause moisture to collect in the down, reducing it's insulation.
You can always wear your sleeping bag in camp if your get chilled.

A light down vest would probably be more usable.

[JAK]

What is the total weight of all your clothing system?
1.How much wind and rain shells?
2.How much wool/fleece/etc.?
3.How much down, including its shells?

Usually once you have enough #2 for freezing rain conditions, you shouldn't need #3.
Also, your #1 stuff doesn't need to be so complicated, because with a wool sweater your rain/wind shells can be really light, because and don't have to be nearly so rainproof or breathable. You get soaked, you keep hiking, you get dry. It's usually sufficient that they merely suggest that the rain not penetrate. They don't have to demand it. :)

Works for sheep.

[ChinMusic]

You can always wear your sleeping bag in camp if your get chilled.

Speaking of wearing a sleeping bag, several have used the Raku from Nunatak. It is a sleeping bag that doubles as a camp parka. The foot box can be opened up to allow walking.

http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/other_bags/raku.htm

http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/images/other_bags/product_pics/raku.jpg

[garlic08]

I had the same question when I left in April. I ended up carrying a down vest instead of a fleece jacket. It was a good decision for me. I didn't need anything warmer than that, despite a couple of snow storms with temps in the teens in the Smokies and Mt Rogers. I liked having it as a back-up to the sleeping bag. I only used it a couple of times, and then it was wrapped around my legs in the sleeping bag (I only had a 1/2 length foam pad). It was never a survival issue, just a little more comfort. I sent it home in mid-May.

[brooklynkayak]

Speaking of wearing a sleeping bag, several have used the Raku from Nunatak. It is a sleeping bag that doubles as a camp parka. The foot box can be opened up to allow walking.


Feathered Friends and Exped also have similar systems. In fact my avatar pic is me in the Exped Wallcreeper:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_z2SnDYxcXMk/Stn_K5PJhKI/AAAAAAAABvE/OOTaZlE6Y1Q/s640/sany0278.jpg

[ChinMusic]

In fact my avatar pic is me in the Exped Wallcreeper...
I thought the avatar had something to do with Devo........:D

[Bags4266]

Quite the flattering picture! You be styling on the trails.:)

[A-Train]

To quote some forgotten stand-up comendian, " I never remembering thinking, MAN, my torso is freezing, but my arms are so warm!".

I've got a WM Flight jacket which is really warm for the weight, but pricey.

While many had the MB thermawrap on the PCT, most admitted they weren't very warm.

[Blissful]

I can tell you one thing from your list, not enough socks....IMO

I really like my Montbell synthetic jacket.

[Saffirre8]

If everyone jumped off a cliff, does that mean its a good idea?

I thought this site was about HELPING people with ideas, experiences and advice, but i must be wrong Mr. White Russian. I guess its about people being smart asses...If you have nothing nice to say then just dont write anything at all...

[brooklynkayak]

Quite the flattering picture! You be styling on the trails.:)

I have to be careful wearing that thing, the girls just go wild when they see me in it:)

[brooklynkayak]

I thought the avatar had something to do with Devo........:D

Are we not men?...;)

[jbrecon2]

Blissful, which montbell jacket? And do you reccommend more than two pair of socks?

[ChinMusic]

Are we not men?...;)
http://www.ifsociety.com/img_upload/artists/1054a.jpg

[Dogwood]

Gotta say BrooklynKayak, that is a fine new model for a Rugby crash helmet your sporting!