PCT Hike This Year...Questions on Gear

[Megapixel]

HI all,

It appears that the only hike we have available is a section of the AT or a thru of the John Muir Trail. Since we still want to thru the AT one day, I think the JMT is the best option. Besides, the JMT has been a dream as well for a long time. I do have some questions about whether or not our current gear is adequate however. It appears that if we need to replace too much gear, we may need to section the AT instead. Here goes hoping for good news:

Me:
Granite Gear Large Size 3900 ci.
Wife:
Gregory Z Pack 3800 ci.

Bags M.B. UL 30 degrees

So I know I will need to buy or rent a bear canister. Are the packs and bags going to be adequate though? We plan on taking it leisurely... I don't want to try and do crazy mileage just to make our packs work. Also, will bear cannisters strap to your pack or do they need to go inside???
Oh yeah, our time table is fairly open over the summer... we're looking at August.
thanks a bunch to all!

[BrianLe]

Seems plenty adequate to me. I carried a 20F rated bag when I went through in June, but should be a lot higher average temps in August. Bag capacity is impossible to compare without knowing your hiking style and the totality of gear, but I'd be surprised if a 3800/3900 c.i. pack isn't big enough. I used a GG Mariposa Plus, rated at 3600 c.i., and that number includes a lot of external mesh --- the internal-only capacity is 2800 (including extension collar). It was pretty full, but it worked fine.

OTOH, I ran into people carrying monstrously big (and doubtlessly heavy) packs in there, hence --- without more knowledge about you it's tough to say for sure.

[Megapixel]

Seems plenty adequate to me. I carried a 20F rated bag when I went through in June, but should be a lot higher average temps in August. Bag capacity is impossible to compare without knowing your hiking style and the totality of gear, but I'd be surprised if a 3800/3900 c.i. pack isn't big enough. I used a GG Mariposa Plus, rated at 3600 c.i., and that number includes a lot of external mesh --- the internal-only capacity is 2800 (including extension collar). It was pretty full, but it worked fine.

OTOH, I ran into people carrying monstrously big (and doubtlessly heavy) packs in there, hence --- without more knowledge about you it's tough to say for sure.

thanks! I can adequately pack 5-7 days of food and gear in our packs for an AT hike; so I'm hoping with a bit of re-arranging i can pack more food and a bit less gear for the longer resupply sections of the JMT and be fine. Appreciate your experience on this.

[karoberts]

I hiked the SOBO JMT in August 2009. Your packs sound good. 30 degree bags may be good enough, though we had several nights in the teens.

You will probably need 2 bear canisters, one for each person. Going SOBO, unless you horse pack in supplies, Muir Trail Ranch will be your last resupply, 10 moderate days from the southern terminus.

If you are hiking at a leisurely pace (3 weeks or more), it will probably cost the same to rent bear canisters as it would to buy them! So I would wait for an REI 20% off sale and buy some.

[Megapixel]

I hiked the SOBO JMT in August 2009. Your packs sound good. 30 degree bags may be good enough, though we had several nights in the teens.

You will probably need 2 bear canisters, one for each person. Going SOBO, unless you horse pack in supplies, Muir Trail Ranch will be your last resupply, 10 moderate days from the southern terminus.

If you are hiking at a leisurely pace (3 weeks or more), it will probably cost the same to rent bear canisters as it would to buy them! So I would wait for an REI 20% off sale and buy some.

Thanks for the info. The 10 days has me a bit worried... especially since my pack is only rated to 30 lbs. and i would imagine 20 of that will be food for that portion....not sure if this is possible. I was considering purchasing a 20 degree bag for this trip... i think your "teens" just confirmed that:)

[BrianLe]

One factor here is the number of miles you're comfortable doing. I was PCT thru-hiking and so was well up-to-speed by that point, so even though mileage drops in the Sierras/JMT, it still skews a persons sense of what's "normal". Hiking more miles makes it easier to "hike high and camp low", which in turn impacts the temps you're likely to encounter.

It also impacts the number of days of food, though offsetting that is the amount (bulk and weight) of food you likely need per day.

Buying a bear can on sale isn't a bad idea if you might ever use one again in future. If you do rent, the Bearikade is more expensive but nice --- lighter and a little more capacity. I liked the clear plastic BearVault, so long as you get a new one (some older models are no longer approved in the JMT).

You don't necessarily need to do 10 days between resupplies, though again, very much depending on mileage per day. I went out over Kearsarge Pass to resupply in Independence, which helped for me. I used MTR (Muir Trail Ranch) too, though many people said good things about Vermillion Valley Resort, about one (thru-hiker ...) day hiking apart from MTR.

[garlic08]

I have very little High Sierra experience, just a PCT NOBO thru, but I spent a couple decades with many trips in the Colorado high country and I always carried a 20F bag or better.

Whether the packs work depends on how much stuff you carry, of course. If you like to carry an extra pair of trousers, a mountain parka and rain paints, a thick fleece and down vest, a water filter, a book, GPS, binocs, SLR with zoom lens, camp shoes, dining fly, camp chair, expedition first aid kit, coffee press and mug, fishing gear, etc...maybe not. Impossible to tell until you pack it all up.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

If you go in August, you can get by with a 35 degree bag unless you like to camp at 12,000 feet in the open. I currently use an REI Halo wich is rated at 25 and used that in mid September all the way up to 12,600 feet. In July, I think I zipped the bag one night, and used it as a blanket 18 other nights.

Bear canisters are generally large and bulky - strapping to the pack will work if you have a pack that supports a large item of that shape. They are heavy when filled, so strapping to the top is where you want them. I have a larger pack and put the canister inside.

[BrianLe]

Even with my smaller pack, I still ended up with the can inside. It's not just having a way to connect a large item of that shape, it's also about the combination of how heavy and how relatively frictionless a smooth plastic bear can is. I figured out how to beat the frictionless part, but the dense weight of the thing made it periodically find a way to shift to an unstable position. A brief shakedown trip hadn't turned up that problem (probably I didn't have nearly as much weight in it then).

[Miner]

Strapping the bearcan to the top of the back is really uncomfortable since having all that weight on top causes your pack to shift around all the time. Packing the can inside your pack carries much easier provided it will fit.

I usually carry mine vertical in the bottom of my pack on top of my sleeping bag and stuff clothing and smaller items around the sides of it to fill in. I'd rather use the extension collar to carry the rest of my gear, if needed, then strap the bearcan to the top of the pack.

[Jester2000]

Although it may not make much sense, you're not required to have your food inside the bear cannister when you're walking, only when you're in camp.

This opens up two possibilities:
First, you can technically carry one more day's worth of food than you can fit in your cannister, as you will eat it on your first day out, and not be camping with it.

Second, you can keep your food in your pack while hiking, and have the cannister (obviously lighter without food) strapped to the outside of your pack wherever you can fit it. When you reach camp, you can put your food into the cannister. Not an ideal solution, but it might be necessary depending on the size of your pack.

[karoberts]

If you go in August, you can get by with a 35 degree bag unless you like to camp at 12,000 feet in the open. I currently use an REI Halo wich is rated at 25 and used that in mid September all the way up to 12,600 feet. In July, I think I zipped the bag one night, and used it as a blanket 18 other nights.

Bear canisters are generally large and bulky - strapping to the pack will work if you have a pack that supports a large item of that shape. They are heavy when filled, so strapping to the top is where you want them. I have a larger pack and put the canister inside.

I think a 35 degree bag is dangerous advice. The high Sierra have very unpredictable weather. I walked through a snowstorm on the JMT the first week in August (2009). One week earlier it was 95 degrees during the day and 80 at night.

[mweinstone]

my ptc hikes were all in my imagination as jester took me down memory lane of his hike and i mindgulped his memorys.but since he never shut up for so long about it, i now containe all of mankind and jesters knowalage on the subject of bad tasteing waterfountains and all manner of ptc fun.

first you will need gear. gear is what we call stuff for hiking. next. you will be required to drink. booze. lots. we dont know why. but hikers who dont drink, get a hell of a lot less . next. we must discuss town behavior. this aint the at. we got no rules asept one. drink. so in reveiw, we have learned three things.
warm gear
warm beer
bear fear

in laymens terms. if your gear is warm enough to get you to where the bears wanna eat you and their are few women to sleep with for protection, you got two options. slep with bears or drink away cares.

[BrianLe]

"I think a 35 degree bag is dangerous advice. "

There are multiple factors at work here, including what other clothing the person has to sleep in, assuming the bag doesn't fit really tight. What sort of shelter they have --- a double-wall tent is warmer than other options. How aggressive or conservative the 35 degree rating is.

On reflection, though, I guess I would still be inclined to bring a 20F bag, in that even the relatively "low" areas in the Sierras are still all at least over 7000 feet and often over 8000 feet elevation.

[Jester2000]

I think a 35 degree bag is dangerous advice. The high Sierra have very unpredictable weather. I walked through a snowstorm on the JMT the first week in August (2009). One week earlier it was 95 degrees during the day and 80 at night.

I agree with this, mainly because I like to err on the side of safety (and my comfort). Here's an excerpt from a letter Peter Grubb wrote about a July Sierra trip (in 1936):

We packed in from there over Shepards Pass and joined the Sierra Club for one day in Milestone Creek. Yesterday we knapsacked over Forester Pass, (a new and wonderfully built Pass connecting the Kern with the Kings). It crosses the divide west of Junction Peak and east of Stanford coming in at Center Basin. Last night we camped in Center Basin. And tomorrow cross Kersarge Pass and start for home.

Out of approximately 30 days we have been in the mtns about 15 of those days it rained, hailed or snowed. One afternoon at Colby meadows it snowed about 3 or 4 inches.

Hard to believe there was a time when Forester was new, ain't it? But what's not new is the possibility of crappy, potentially dangerous weather in the Sierra. Be prepared.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

I usually carry mine vertical in the bottom of my pack on top of my sleeping bag and stuff clothing and smaller items around the sides of it to fill in. I'd rather use the extension collar to carry the rest of my gear, if needed, then strap the bearcan to the top of the pack.

the ideal place for heavy items is as close and high to your neck as possible. Problem with the bear canister is that it is constantly changing weight, although I manage to cram other things into it once the food level drops.

I usually keep it uprigh in the upper compartment of my Gregory Whitney 95, with sleeping bag and fluffy clothing below, tent left and right to stabilize. All my stuff is inside the pack and very tightly packed that way. I use a Bearikade Expedition, which is so smooth, you would have a hard time packing it on the outside unless you make a custom bag for strapping it down while inside the stuff bag

The added benefit of packing the can upright in the pack is that I can get inside for some snacks and brief meals without having to unpack it. I just open the top of the pack and take the canister lid off, go for the goodies. One of the most annoying things about bear canisters is that you never get to the food item you need without almost completely emptying the thing unless you pack the inside of it for each day when you get it ready in the morning, layering the top section with that day's worth of supplies.

As for weather - every 10 years you get a very nasty day even in July - we almost died of hypothermia July 12, 2008, a day that saw storms that rarely ever hit this hard in summer, but you have to be ready for them. without tent and aluminum emergency blankets, things could have turned very ugly that day for us. Down in owens valley it washed away many houses and destroyed the Mt. Whitney Fish Hatchery that day.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

I think a 35 degree bag is dangerous advice. The high Sierra have very unpredictable weather. I walked through a snowstorm on the JMT the first week in August (2009). One week earlier it was 95 degrees during the day and 80 at night.

I've spent about 12 summers up there. 35 degree bags that ARE 35F and not mislabled are totally fine. You may get cold in a bad storm, but I guarantee you a snowstorm in August isn't going to affect you in that 35F bag. I spent many nights that were 10F in my 35F bag this September and given I had a tent around me and some layers on my body, I got cold only once, but being cold and "dangerous" are two different things.

Bottom line - if you don't like getting cold one bit, carryt hat 10 F bag.

I sent a night without sleeping bag in my tent in 2008 because it was completely soaked, and that after 8 inches of hail came down on us for several hours at 12,000 feet. We made it down to 11,000 for the night. It wasn't too much fun, but 3 people, 2 sleeping bags and a couple of aluminum emergency blankets will keep you warm. If not, keep hiking. Nothing dangerous about a 35F bag in the summer in the Sierras as long as you know what you're doing. The dangerous part is not knowing how to use the gear you have and what its limits are.

[Megapixel]

Thanks to all this has been very helpful.