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Scruffy
12-28-2009, 23:57
I went out today at Abrams Creek area in SMNP. It was beautiful and the temps was around 35-40 degrees. Anyway, I decided to take a different trail this time that crossed Abrams Creek. The last time I was there I could cross it no promblem but this time the creek was 2 foot higher and wider than I remember, thanks to the snow melt . Long story short, I was hiking in thermals and jeans and I didnt have any backup clothing. So I decided not to ford the stream and just backtrack which still gave me my ten miles.
After I got home I starting to wondered if I just wussed out or if age is starting to make me listen to my gut feelings. I really wanted to just strip down to my underwear and go for it, but after sitting down and having lunch staring at the stream I just got a bad feeling.
I do feel consoled by the fact that I finished my hike with dry everything and the day was great but I still have the nagging voice saying I should have went for it.

What are your thoughts???

warraghiyagey
12-28-2009, 23:59
You should have stripped down and went for it. . . . exhilarating. . . . :sun

Tipi Walter
12-29-2009, 00:10
If you were dayhiking then yes, I'd say you wussed out. A dayhiker with no overloaded backpack can cross where the upright backpacker might find it impossible. You might have to do it on all fours, though, something a backpacker can't do.

moytoy
12-29-2009, 00:16
I think you made a wise decision! I used to fly fish in that river around the horseshoe just above the falls. It's a cold river even in the summer as I remember.

Two Tents
12-29-2009, 00:44
My thoughts are jeans are usually a bad idea for the woods. Just sayin'.

Compass
12-29-2009, 00:53
Worst case you strip down and as you are crossing you drop your clothes/fall in. If they are cotton and wet then you will be cold. Atleast synthetics can be wrung out most of the way.

World-Wide
12-29-2009, 03:53
I went out today at Abrams Creek area in SMNP. It was beautiful and the temps was around 35-40 degrees. Anyway, I decided to take a different trail this time that crossed Abrams Creek. The last time I was there I could cross it no promblem but this time the creek was 2 foot higher and wider than I remember, thanks to the snow melt . Long story short, I was hiking in thermals and jeans and I didnt have any backup clothing. So I decided not to ford the stream and just backtrack which still gave me my ten miles.
After I got home I starting to wondered if I just wussed out or if age is starting to make me listen to my gut feelings. I really wanted to just strip down to my underwear and go for it, but after sitting down and having lunch staring at the stream I just got a bad feeling.
I do feel consoled by the fact that I finished my hike with dry everything and the day was great but I still have the nagging voice saying I should have went for it.

What are your thoughts???

Hey Scruffy: You were there, you gauged the conditions and ultimately made the decision that was right for you. I cast no judgements! You lived to hike another day! :) Funny you mentioned age as a possible wuss-out factor! I was 25 when the Air Force sent me to Okinawa for the first time. I was scuba certified within 3 weeks of setting foot on the island and dove in conditions that border-lined the insane. A couple buddies and I ususally ignored warning signs and it came that no one else would dive with us because of the risks we took. Thankfully, none of us got injured/killed and made it off the island to pursue other endeavors! Fast-forward 10 years and I once again got orders to go back to Okinawa. The first thing that came to mind was scuba diving! I did a lot of diving my second tour, but the difference this time was that I walked away from many dive opportunities due to surf conditions. Like you at Abrams Creek, I stopped, looked at the conditions (wave breaks) that were moderate compaired to the conditions I dove in my first tour, and then simply walked away because I felt it wasn't worth the risk. I had a hard time dealing with the wuss-out factor the first couple times I backed out, but I chalked it up to the fact I'm getting wiser with age! :D W-W

Trailweaver
12-29-2009, 03:57
I think it was a wise decision. . . no chance of getting wet and having to make the best out of a bad choice.

Sailor (The other one)
12-29-2009, 05:42
Tell the part of you that thinks you wussed out to grow up.

So you dive in, get wet and cold. Then what? Put your cotton clothes back on to get warm? How many times do we have to hear about people getting hypothermia when they got their cotton wet on a day hike?

Tell your gut instinct thanks. I agree with those who say you made a wise decision.

MintakaCat
12-29-2009, 07:21
These are nice to have in the winter and only weigh 9 oz, Wiggys light weight waders:

http://wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=5&CFID=4467965&CFTOKEN=89096356

russb
12-29-2009, 07:29
I think you made the wise choice, especially being solo. Your story also emphasizes why I always carry a small backpack with some necessary items such as extra socks, a thermal layer (I cannot hike in thermals, I get overheated). Basically in my pack is enough gear that I could survive the night (not be comfortable, but survive) for dayhikes.

Toolshed
12-29-2009, 09:01
You're alone. Ice cold water - I'm assuming it's hip deep - I think you made the decision that was appropriate for the circumstances. Had you had spare clothing, or been with a group where you could use a rope or go in twos, it would have made a difference.

For those who have never crossed waist deep hard flowing meltwater, (especially if there are boulders and pockets), it can be a rather unnerving experience. Within a minute you either get incredible pain from the cold, or you lose feelings in your legs and start to become clumsy as you try to move your feet...

Today, we could have easily been reading about "A hiker "Scruffy" who hadn't made it back to his car after plans for a simple dayhike yesterday. Local searchers are starting to comb the trail where he was expected to be hiking..."

The Old Fhart
12-29-2009, 09:39
First, I can't believe some supposedly knowledgeable hikers would suggest that you try doing something so foolish as crossing that stream-you made the correct choice there.

Second, I can't believe you were hiking in those conditions in jeans with no backup clothing. Russb is right on when he suggests you should have been carrying a small pack with extra clothing and emergency gear.

Good reading is Jack London's "To Build A Fire."

babbage
12-29-2009, 09:40
That can actually be a very dangerous crossing. The deceptive thing about it at high level is you can't really tell how much force the current has. It looks docile - until you are out in it with your feet grappling for purchase on those polished rocks. Wishing you could go back. You knew better than to do this. Its too late now - forward is the only way. You tense as you feel a sickening fear in your belly. Maybe someone will appear on the trail. Not likely. One more baby step. It gets deeper - and more forceful. This was so stupid, you tell yourself. Screw all those idiots that sit at home and type "you wussed out, I would have done it". You hate them now. Stupid couch potatoes. Its like walking on oiled bowling balls, in a 60 mph wind...and if you slip you will go bobbing and rolling down stream like a watermellon. Next step, bad, slipping...your ankle rolls... you stab your arms into the deep water, but its too late...your face is under water...the current has you...god its cold...your brain screams, but there is no sound.Fighting and gasping for air, you have thoughs of your loved ones, but every turn in the river there is a larger rapid, and you are choking on water, you legs numb from the cold. Finally weakened you feel your head slam into a hard granite boulder, a quick flash of pain, then the cold water covers your head again. The white bubbles are soft this time. Wide eyed you stare into the white bubbles, the fear is gone now, you breathe the cold water, your lungs revolt, and your spasmic body floats and bounces along the bottom. They will find your grey, swollen body, with a frozen death stare many miles down stream... and the rescuers will cuss your stupidity because they will have to tag and bag, then haul your brusied and bloody carcass to the road for extraction. And the couch potatoes will type " he never should have tried to cross that", and "condolences", and "prayers", and .....

Tipi Walter
12-29-2009, 09:53
For those who have never crossed waist deep hard flowing meltwater, (especially if there are boulders and pockets), it can be a rather unnerving experience. Within a minute you either get incredible pain from the cold, or you lose feelings in your legs and start to become clumsy as you try to move your feet...



Heres a good thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d91j0bIY3SA

This shows you what can be done without a pack and was taken on Slickrock Creek in the wilderness. Wearing a big 65lb pack would change everything. Dayhikers don't have to worry about careful foot placement or shifting weight and the quick loss of balance, they can scoot across like in the video, on all fours and up to their necks.

Or course, it's much more difficult in the winter and when the water's cold, and it seems to get more difficult with advancing age. Young guys are known for their ability to withstand freezing water and jumping into rushing winter creeks. I did it all the time in my younger years, up in the lake at Lost Valley, up on Upper Creek in Pisgah, on the Laurel Flats creek in Shining Rock, etc. It gets harder the older you get, I think.

I don't know if the vid will load as I've never linked a youtube thing before on Whiteblaze.

neighbor dave
12-29-2009, 10:06
on some crossings you can use a contractor grade trash bag, jump inside it and walk carefully, it works quite well

Andrea356
12-29-2009, 10:26
Hey Scruffy: You were there, you gauged the conditions and ultimately made the decision that was right for you. I cast no judgements! You lived to hike another day! :) Funny you mentioned age as a possible wuss-out factor! I was 25 when the Air Force sent me to Okinawa for the first time. I was scuba certified within 3 weeks of setting foot on the island and dove in conditions that border-lined the insane. A couple buddies and I ususally ignored warning signs and it came that no one else would dive with us because of the risks we took. Thankfully, none of us got injured/killed and made it off the island to pursue other endeavors! Fast-forward 10 years and I once again got orders to go back to Okinawa. The first thing that came to mind was scuba diving! I did a lot of diving my second tour, but the difference this time was that I walked away from many dive opportunities due to surf conditions. Like you at Abrams Creek, I stopped, looked at the conditions (wave breaks) that were moderate compaired to the conditions I dove in my first tour, and then simply walked away because I felt it wasn't worth the risk. I had a hard time dealing with the wuss-out factor the first couple times I backed out, but I chalked it up to the fact I'm getting wiser with age! :D W-W

My dad was a scuba diver in Okinawa around that time - any chance you knew a Paul Goth?

World-Wide
12-29-2009, 11:12
My dad was a scuba diver in Okinawa around that time - any chance you knew a Paul Goth?

Andrea356: Was he in the Air Force or Marine Corps? Did he dive out of Kadena Marina, Torii Scuba Locker or Tsunami Gear on Foster? New a Paul who worked at the Torri Scuba Locker at the time!! :-? W-W

clodhopper
12-29-2009, 11:41
No question - absolutely the right decision to turn around.

Agree with Toolshed's comments about the possibility of hearing about a missing hiker, etc. if things hadn't worked out. See similar stories on this site on a regular basis.

Live to hike another day.

prain4u
12-29-2009, 17:59
I think that many of us do indeed change our "outdoor lifestyle" as we grow "older" (and "wiser"?).

When I was in my teens and 20s, I thought that I was "Ten foot tall and bulletproof". I often took lots of unnecessary risks that I probably would not take now. I carried ropes in my backpack (or in my canoe) and I would rappel down cliffs "just for the heck of it" and with very little thought regarding safety. I would go "bushwhacking" cross country. I often hiked and camped in very cold temps (like 40 below zero windchill). I went exploring inside active bear dens in the winter. I would go canoeing over long distances of open water in the midst of some pretty huge waves.

As I have "aged", I find that I now take less risks. In situations like your creek crossing, I have now switched my philosophy from "Why not!" to "Why bother!"

Due to all of the safety (and comfort) reasons already mentioned by others, I think that you did the VERY right thing by turning around and not fording the creek.

moytoy
12-29-2009, 21:14
Hey Scruffy, I am wondering where on Abrams Creek you were hiking. Unless you were high in the mountians at the head waters it's not really a creek at all. It's one of the largest rivers in the Smokies. Anywhere below the mouth of Rabbit Creek it is going to be hard to cross in flood conditions. I still stick by my first post. You made the correct decision.

Scruffy
12-30-2009, 00:55
Hey Scruffy, I am wondering where on Abrams Creek you were hiking. Unless you were high in the mountians at the head waters it's not really a creek at all. It's one of the largest rivers in the Smokies. Anywhere below the mouth of Rabbit Creek it is going to be hard to cross in flood conditions. I still stick by my first post. You made the correct decision.

Hi Moytoy
I was at the juction where Hanana Mountain Trail meets Abrams Falls Trail and Little Bottoms Trail.
I have been doing my training hikes for my 2010 thru hike around Abrams Creek area since it is 30 mintues from the house. A good over nite hike is to hike from Abrams Creek to Gregory Bald. That is one heck of a view from the bald

Bronk
12-30-2009, 01:25
Didn't somebody just post an article about a woman who died being washed away somewhere in the smokies?

Marta
12-30-2009, 08:23
Didn't somebody just post an article about a woman who died being washed away somewhere in the smokies?

Yes.

Whether you should have forded or not depends on so many factors. How much fording experience have you had? Do you have good poles or fording sticks? How cold was the water? (Probably very cold.) How deep? How swift? Was it a relatively flat bottom, or big boulders with water rushing hard around them?

I also agree that when you're hiking alone, especially off season, you should be extra-special careful not to get yourself into a mess.

In other words, carefully choose the risks you decide to take.:rolleyes:

JokerJersey
12-30-2009, 09:45
Well, you can look at it this way...what was there to gain by the risk of doing it?

You were on a training hike, no one was waiting for you at the other side, and you were just putting mileage in for no other reason than just to do it. You weren't going to starve or be stuck outside in horrible conditions if you didn't cross.

If you can't point out any reasons why you SHOULD cross, other than "I feel like I wussed out by not crossing...", then your instincts were right on the money. Like everyone always says around here...Listen to your instincts, not your pride.

garlic08
12-30-2009, 10:30
I say congratulations for making a mature decision at the surprisingly young age of 32. You beat me by about 10 years. For me, the deciding moment came when I was in my mid-40's, at the top of a technical hill on my mountain bike. I lost my nerve and walked it down. I was out riding with 20-somethings, and decided not to try to keep up. I just decided the risk wasn't worth the reward, for me. Part of me was pissed off for wussing out, sure, but now I'm very pleased to be remarkably uninjured after lots of risky activities.

There are all sorts of ways to enjoy taking a risk and minimizing the risk, like taking some of the advice above. Fast water is one of backcountry risks I truly respect and one of my weakest skill sets, so I would have been right with you on turning around.

Stay safe, and have fun.